Feedback Thread: 1.5

[a puppy]

Time to only play gunner

 

[CC-1119 'Appo']

Honestly, these new projectile speeds feel unwarranted. It has really messed with gunner gameplay - sure, now you need some more skill to be more consistent as a gunner but the new speeds indirectly nerf ARC-FU and evasion playstyles in general into being completely non-viable.

The only people whose aim you will be throwing off now is those who are new to shooters or bad at shooters outside of very long range fighting, the projectile travel speeds previously were slow enough that it was a good balance between skill and estimation whereas pushing it up even just this 15% is enough to seriously impact the way guns perform and the moves you can get away with.

If the MB2 devs want gun play to take as much skill as possible then sure this is a good change, I'd actually encourage going even further and turning that 15% into 30 - 40% but it also makes everything mechanical and MB2 gun play isn't good enough to get away with being as mechanical as most shooters, it doesn't have the depth to be compelling as a gunnery system without travel time to vary up fights.

I guess the meta is m5 sniper, that's probably the only time ARC-FU will really pay off anymore as trying to slug it out with a 24 damage weapon just isn't working against re-spawning classes with similar damage, who can now land most of their shots and get three chances to kill someone. Still not sure why a class as mobile as ARC needs a sniper though.

Cool patch otherwise, I can't say anything on the saber system, but these projectile speed boosts are really fucking with me, I'm considering just dropping arc-fu in favour of sniper cheese, because my signature playstyle just doesn't work anymore outside of very, very rare circumstances.

 

[SeV]

Honestly, these new projectile speeds feel unwarranted. It has really messed with gunner gameplay - sure, now you need some more skill to be more consistent as a gunner now but the new speeds indirectly nerf ARC-FU and evasion playstyles in general into being completely non-viable.

The only people whose aim you will be throwing off now is those who are new or bad at shooters in general outside of very long range fighting, the projectile travel speeds previously were slow enough that it was a good balance between skill and estimation whereas pushing it up even just this 15% is enough to seriously impact the way guns perform and the moves you can get away with.

If the MB2 devs want gun play to take as much skill as possible then sure this is a good change, I'd actually encourage going even further and turning that 15% into 30 - 40% but it also makes everything mechanical and MB2 gun play isn't good enough to get away with being as mechanical as most shooters, it doesn't have the depth to be compelling as a gunnery system without travel time to vary up fights. This much is evident just from watching people play, even your average newbie is a lethal killing machine as a gunner now, as it is very much just point and click to hit your target with almost zero leading at most ranges.

I guess the meta is m5 sniper, that's probably the only time ARC-FU will really pay off anymore as trying to slug it out with a 24 damage weapon just isn't working against re-spawning classes with similar damage, who can now land most of their shots and get three chances to kill someone. Still not sure why a class as mobile as ARC needs a sniper.

Cool patch otherwise, I can't say anything on the saber system, but these projectile speed boosts are really fucking with me, I'm considering just dropping arc-fu in favour of sniper cheese, because the former just doesn't work anymore outside of very, very rare circumstances.

I think the speeds are good. Even though it impacts arc-fu or whatever and same goes for deka rolling, jedi/sith sideways dodging etc. You can more easily hit targets moving at high velocity which I think makes the game more fun as it reduces the amount of possible cheese. I don't play much arc, so I dunno about Arc-fu vs gunners, only vs sith, but I played M5 sniper yesterday and could destroy half a team with it easily. It's quite beastly, so arc is definitely not coming out short-changed in this patch and I think it has a nice style of gameplay with M5 sniper and its acrobatics.

I think people just need to get more used to the patch, especially those complaining that jedi/sith are weak. They just take more skill again so you have to adjust your playstyle a bit, but I feel much more free as jedi/sith now than before due to how I can use force powers more actively with the regen and take risks. It's way more fun for me than previously. In gunner vs jedi/sith, engagements can be quick or slow depending on various factor and the same goes for jedi vs sith. That's pretty amazing tbh, and something that was missing before.

 

[Liniyka_xddd]

I don't get this whining about new projectile speeds. Guns like E-11 are much more viable against snipers now, and in general aiming became more about shooting the target and less about guessing where the target will be.

Sure, there are some flawed guns now (like Bowcaster 3), but I think that can easily be fixed.

 

[hleV]

inb4

Is that from like 4 years ago? Tried 1.5 and it's still the same shit with no fun whatsoever and everything about PB (which is random and EZ as fuck: low BP → random PBs → full BP). Game was fun when it was about well-timed offense and there was no godmode aka zoned PB.

 

[SeV]

Is that from like 4 years ago? Tried 1.5 and it's still the same shit with no fun whatsoever and everything about PB (which is random and EZ as fuck: low BP → random PBs → full BP). Game was fun when it was about well-timed offense and there was no godmode aka zoned PB.

I can PB your a,d,a,d 100% of the time. Not random

 

[noel]

I can PB your a,d,a,d 100% of the time. Not random

but lets not act like its impossible or even unlikely for someone to get lucky with a 3 hit pb and then immediately have a 50+ BP regen

the regen is way too high imo, possibly even unneccessary

i'm not alone with that opinion either after speaking to some of the top EU-ers

 

[k4far]

but lets not act like its impossible or even unlikely for someone to get lucky with a 3 hit pb and then immediately have a 50+ BP regen

the regen is way too high imo, possibly even unneccessary

i'm not alone with that opinion either after speaking to some of the top EU-ers

Not a top EU but 8BP per PB is just retarded.

You can not have dueling just around PBing - it's not working for Open at all fights are long and PBing in Open if you pay it too much attention gets you side whacked. Would be enough if you could stop the damage by successfully doing it.

 

[SeV]

but lets not act like its impossible or even unlikely for someone to get lucky with a 3 hit pb and then immediately have a 50+ BP regen

the regen is way too high imo, possibly even unneccessary

i'm not alone with that opinion either after speaking to some of the top EU-ers

You're just wrong about the BP regen on PB, so I won't respond any more than I already have about it. Go to the changelog and find the numbers and do the math and you will see. Already responded to this once but I will say it again. 24 BP regen for 3 hits. 33 BP dmg in yvy 3 hit combo. What's harder? What can you do more? What about halfswinging facehug yawed hits? What about the interrupts dealing 1.6x or 1.2x so when you combo someone you often absolutely rape their BP often by about 40-50 pts. I just think ppl attack like noobs vs people that are skilled at PBing. This change makes it so careless attacking vs skilled people isn't rewarded as much. It's the old thing where you are punished for noobish flailing attacks by skill, although it may be a foreign concept to some people that rely overly much on ACM only and just ignore opponents PBs. Those ppl that play in the 1.4.9 style don't care if they get PB'd as long as they can grind +1 ACM. If you play that style and attack carelessly vs someone like me or pelm or recourse that can actually PB well, you will be the artitect of your own demise as it should be.

And stop saying 50 when it's literally half of that amount.

EDIT: @K4 No, I have destroyed people in 6 seconds in open and sometimes done 1v2 and 1v3 in less than 30 seconds with 1 Mblock disarm and some BP rape. Fights are rly fast. Against someone blocking, I can kill them in about 15 seconds or less if they start panicking. Git gud issues everywhere. How about you guys learn the patch before saying everything is broken?

EDIT 2: If you're having trouble vs ppl like archiiv that bait PBs/MBlocks by shadowswinging and running far away, just chase with cyan. Easy 100 BP victory every time and its a joke since that playstyle relies overly much on ACM grinding. Just realize that PBing and being careful with your attacks, aka being mindful actually matters. Skill matters now more than before. Skills like interrupt, timing, spacing, footwork, PBing and good attacking etc.

 

[PuNk]

Problem is I don't think you can just remove flat BP regen by PB unless you want to tamper again with offence / defence ratings of all styles, otherwise duels would last even shorter than they are now and most are between 10 - 15 seconds.
I don't mind regening 8 BP by PB, gives me more to work on rather than ACM grind in every single duel like in 1.4 and I also feel more rewarded when I make a comeback by PBing - which imo should be an essential skill everyone needs to practise.

 

[noel]

You're just wrong about the BP regen on PB, so I won't respond any more than I already have about it. Go to the changelog and find the numbers and do the math and you will see. Already responded to this once but I will say it again. 24 BP regen for 3 hits. 33 BP dmg in yvy 3 hit combo. What's harder? What can you do more? What about halfswinging facehug yawed hits? What about the interrupts dealing 1.6x or 1.2x so when you combo someone you often absolutely rape their BP often by about 40-50 pts. I just think ppl attack like noobs vs people that are skilled at PBing. This change makes it so careless attacking vs skilled people isn't rewarded as much. It's the old thing where you are punished for noobish flailing attacks by skill, although it may be a foreign concept to some people that rely overly much on ACM only and just ignore opponents PBs. Those ppl that play in the 1.4.9 style don't care if they get PB'd as long as they can grind +1 ACM. If you play that style and attack carelessly vs someone like me or pelm or recourse that can actually PB well, you will be the artitect of your own demise as it should be.

And stop saying 50 when it's literally half of that amount.

EDIT: @K4 No, I have destroyed people in 6 seconds in open and sometimes done 1v2 and 1v3 in less than 30 seconds with 1 Mblock disarm and some BP rape. Fights are rly fast. Against someone blocking, I can kill them in about 15 seconds or less if they start panicking. Git gud issues everywhere. How about you guys learn the patch before saying everything is broken?

EDIT 2: If you're having trouble vs ppl like archiiv that bait PBs/MBlocks by shadowswinging and running far away, just chase with cyan. Easy 100 BP victory every time and its a joke since that playstyle relies overly much on ACM grinding. Just realize that PBing and being careful with your attacks, aka being mindful actually matters. Skill matters now more than before. Skills like interrupt, timing, spacing, footwork, PBing and good attacking etc.

Even Pelmenu who is literally a Pb robot said its far too high. And Recourse agreed with it

I'm not a retard, you haven't even tested it in game - stand with sub 50 BP and pb a yellow 3 hit combo and show me proof that you only get 24BP because you don't lol

The insta 8BP PLUS the regen gives you at LEAST 50BP regen, please don't try to outmaths something which can be observable by any player with a pair of eyes and their BP bar turned on

 

[noel]

Problem is I don't think you can just remove flat BP regen by PB unless you want to tamper again with offence / defence ratings of all styles, otherwise duels would last even shorter than they are now and most are between 10 - 15 seconds.
I don't mind regening 8 BP by PB, gives me more to work on rather than ACM grind in every single duel like in 1.4 and I also feel more rewarded when I make a comeback by PBing - which imo should be an essential skill everyone needs to practise.

I'm not saying remove it but it definitely needs toning down so that coupled with the regen the amount of bp you can regen is the same as the amount of bp you can deal, balanced around yellow

 

[vasya]

low BP → random PBs → full BP

new sabering in 3 words or less

 

[GoodOl'Ben]

Does every patch radically change the gameplay this much? I was just getting used to the saber system from last patch and now I'm back to square one.

A hope for us is to lock these things down for Saber vs Saber and Saber vs Gunner core mechanics. More precisely targeted changes and improvements are on the pipeline after this. Expect the core to stay the same for now.

A couple of things that are on my radar for follow-up patches:

• Bowcaster rework towards TFA style fantasy
  
• Droideka vs Jedi balance
  
• Purple Stab
• Grip
• Deflect

Closely monitoring the following live changes:

• Shot speed increase
  • Saber vs Gun match-up
    
  • Regular gun vs Sniper match-up
    
  • Overall time-to-kill change
• Block and its validity in different Saber vs Gun match-ups
• Saber fights and comebacks (especially One versus Many situations)
  
• Flinch rework
  • Reliability
  • Readability
  • Feel

Thank you for all the feedback so far!

 

[pelmeņu lauks]

8 BP is seems too much when it's yellow v yellow. But the idea was to encourage style switching, so in that regard 8 bp regen works. For example: when you get slapped and get combo'ed with RED, 8 bp regen is perfect to negate the massive damage you take from red while you were downed (completely defenseless) if you manage to pb the following attacks afterwards. Tampering with this may just fuck things up a lot more and may nerf/buff other styles to some extent

 

[noel]

8 BP is seems too much when it's yellow v yellow. But the idea was to encourage style switching, so in that regard 8 bp regen works. For example: when you get slapped and get combo'ed with RED, 8 bp regen is perfect to negate the massive damage you take from red while you were downed (completely defenseless) if you manage to pb the following attacks afterwards. Tampering with this may just fuck things up a lot more and may nerf/buff other styles to some extent

but that doesn't make sense because red is easier to pb !

so if someone switches to red then you can pb their hits more easily and then you should have to get more pb's in order to clutch because its easier

then you should also have to get less pb's against fast styles because its harder

this balance can only be achieved by first balancing out yellow's output damage and it's potential regen through pb regen and natural regen

the other styles logically fall into place after doing that

 

[pelmeņu lauks]

but that doesn't make sense because red is easier to pb !

so if someone switches to red then you can pb their hits more easily and then you should have to get more pb's in order to clutch because its easier

then you should also have to get less pb's against fast styles because its harder

this balance can only be achieved by first balancing out yellow's output damage and it's potential regen through pb regen and natural regen

the other styles logically fall into place after doing that

I'm talking about playing yellow v yellow with implemented RED. But switching to RED after slap, doing a combo on downed opponent and then switching to yellow again. You can't pb while you're on the ground.

 

[noel]

I'm talking about playing yellow v yellow with implemented RED. But switching to RED after slap, doing a combo on downed opponent and then switching to yellow again. You can't pb while you're on the ground.

well ik i hate that too but you can't really do anything about it, keeping bp regen to 8 still doesn't fix that issue except giving you the ability to come back quicker than without it

i honestly have no idea what you could do about that especially in duel mode since everyone carries at least two styles

maybe make pb regen depend on what you're being hit with, i.e you get 8bp from pb'ing red, 4 from yellow and 2 from fast. But then fast styles can just spam you and it would be guesswork trying to fight them

maybe remove all the styles except yellow kappa

 

[pelmeņu lauks]

Maybe fixed pb regen values for different styles would work. I did not ponder on this at all so I will appreciate arguments to why this is a bad idea.

Defensive styles (Cyan, blue, staff): 2 BP regen on PB, Medium styles (Yellow) 4 BP regen on PB, StronK styles (Red, Purpuro): 8 BP regen on PB.

The values are random, just to get the idea through.

 

[pelmeņu lauks]

rofl