Feedback Thread: 1.5

[SeV]

My first thought was to introduce some sort of bp regen scaling to styles' respective def values. Meaning the larger your bp pool is, the less bp you gain on pb and vice versa. I thought it would make sense that if you play a defensive style, you should be pb'ing more, but according to Stassin:

Now because Blue can barely scratch the surface of Yellow, and the main damage comes from interrupts. It would make sense that if you flail around carelessly with it, you should be punished. And I think it would be kind of ballsy, risk-reward situation for someone to switch to Red and pblock a careless spammer a few times to regen a chunk of bp. I think it would be neat to test something like that, because either way, fast style with large bp pool regenerating same amount of bp as any slower style doesn't sit right with me.

Yeah I might be down with that idea. I'm imagining something like 8 for heavies and 6 for medium and 4 for fast, but I am not sure it's possible to regen half a bp tick on PB in code. We found during testing that 4 BP regen per tick on PBs meant that recovery was quite hard for medium styles on the beta, that's why the value of 6 for them was on my mind but due to how BP regen ticks work it became 8 and it seemed fine for the most part in yvy. But indeed blue can barely make a dent, yet has uber high defense and sometimes duels can drag on despite the fact that the blue user has no chance of victory. Since it's so fast though, we have to be careful to not buff its AP much or it will become very cancerous to fight. Right now it doesn't feel bad to fight blue vs yellow on either side, but I'm not claiming the AP/BP values for all styles are perfect, since they were pretty much ripped from an earlier build (1.3 I think?)

Its probably fine to have universal BP regen on PB being the same too. The consistency of it, along with having the same BP regen on defense 1 makes sense and makes things easier to get. But if the idea of different BP regens on PBs can be executed well, I don't think it would be bad. But the other option is to start tweaking the AP/BP values of styles a bit here and there, like giving blue slightly more AP and slightly less BP.

People have also talked about 1.5 as a 'base' system for further improvement, and part of this 'further' improvement could include tested and balanced perks both open mode perks and dueling perks.

One thing I should mention though, is that the very different AP/BP values of blue and red help make the styles feel unique, so I'm not saying to tamper overly much with them here, but if a few adjustments can improve the game, like blue 7/70 or 7/65 then I wouldn't mind it at all. So not sure about blue, but staff definitely needs a tweak imo.

I'm really keen on pushing smaller changes aimed to address a specific issue to a public beta and testing them, rather than constantly doing vast overhauls of the dueling system. That was the idea behind freezing saber changes in 1.5, but small balance adjustments can and should still be made, it's just a question of what these changes will be, and then testing them to see that they work out in gameplay as they should.

 

[Langerd]

My first thought was to introduce some sort of bp regen scaling to styles' respective def values. Meaning the larger your bp pool is, the less bp you gain on pb and vice versa. I thought it would make sense that if you play a defensive style, you should be pb'ing more, but according to Stassin:

Now because Blue can barely scratch the surface of Yellow, and the main damage comes from interrupts. It would make sense that if you flail around carelessly with it, you should be punished. And I think it would be kind of ballsy, risk-reward situation for someone to switch to Red and pblock a careless spammer a few times to regen a chunk of bp. I think it would be neat to test something like that, because either way, fast style with large bp pool regenerating same amount of bp as any slower style doesn't sit right with me.

 

[pelmeņu lauks]

Yeah I might be down with that idea. I'm imagining something like 8 for heavies and 6 for medium and 4 for fast, but I am not sure it's possible to regen half a bp tick on PB in code. We found during testing that 4 BP regen per tick on PBs meant that recovery was quite hard for medium styles on the beta, that's why the value of 6 for them was on my mind but due to how BP regen ticks work it became 8 and it seemed fine for the most part in yvy. But indeed blue can barely make a dent, yet has uber high defense and sometimes duels can drag on despite the fact that the blue user has no chance of victory. Since it's so fast though, we have to be careful to not buff its AP much or it will become very cancerous to fight. Right now it doesn't feel bad to fight blue vs yellow on either side, but I'm not claiming the AP/BP values for all styles are perfect, since they were pretty much ripped from an earlier build (1.3 I think?)

Its probably fine to have universal BP regen on PB being the same too. The consistency of it, along with having the same BP regen on defense 1 makes sense and makes things easier to get. But if the idea of different BP regens on PBs can be executed well, I don't think it would be bad. But the other option is to start tweaking the AP/BP values of styles a bit here and there, like giving blue slightly more AP and slightly less BP.

People have also talked about 1.5 as a 'base' system for further improvement, and part of this 'further' improvement could include tested and balanced perks both open mode perks and dueling perks.

One thing I should mention though, is that the very different AP/BP values of blue and red help make the styles feel unique, so I'm not saying to tamper overly much with them here, but if a few adjustments can improve the game, like blue 7/70 or 7/65 then I wouldn't mind it at all. So not sure about blue, but staff definitely needs a tweak imo.

I'm really keen on pushing smaller changes aimed to address a specific issue to a public beta and testing them, rather than constantly doing vast overhauls of the dueling system. That was the idea behind freezing saber changes in 1.5, but small balance adjustments can and should still be made, it's just a question of what these changes will be, and then testing them to see that they work out in gameplay as they should.

I think current Yellow v Blue v Red are more or less fair match-ups. Cyan and Purple are pretty much irrelevant in dueling, except for cyan being a good "side-arm" for chasing people down and the stab for purple? Although, I find the stab easy to play around, I think it's more suited for Open lol. So it's mostly staff that's a sore thumb here.

I agree that my idea may be too radical of a change, where simply adjusting AP/BP accordingly may help things fall into place.

 

[SeV]

Something to scare the devs.

 

[MuscBodypillow]

Something to scare the devs.

This is great, jedis can drain FP of other jedis so gunner can finish them up or allow others to use force powers on them.

This is a new feature to enable teamwork!

 

[pelmeņu lauks]

Something to scare the devs.

lol

Next time you're on GJO server, change your name to "J|K shilling". You won't believe what happens next with this simple trick.

 

[noel]

lol

Next time you're on GJO server, change your name to "J|K shilling". You won't believe what happens next with this simple trick.

Next time you're on GJO server, say 'hey babe' to Alice. You won't believe what happens next with this simple trick.

 

[Stassin]

As for staff i rather dislike the idea of reducing its BP because being tanky is what defines it. Rather its offensive potential should be reduced. Since the issue is specifically that it is hard to PB, how about giving it the same chaining direction restrictions as Red ? That won't prevent it from doing halfswings that are hard to PB but would still tone it down.

 

[bubbi]

dueling is so quick now, every duel lasts like 10 seconds unless you are pblocking every hit. Very boring. Also projectiles are a bit broken imo

 

[Gargos]

Being a bit wiser, here is my current judgement of open mode:


-Fp draincaps are a bit too high since snipers can do 80 fp dmg on a running saberist even from afar and insta kill def1 running from any distance. I did hear though that it wasnt supposed to be this way?


-Decrease the amount of fp dmg you take while blocking. Right now there is no reason to block blaster fire since simply zig zagging is much more efficient. I dont like that due to this change zig zagging has become the only viable option, giving less freedom in choosing one's build. For example zig zagging encourages buying forceblock 3 and makes deflect quite useless.


-purple feels a bit drag to play ever since slowing it down. It is like a poor man's red. Not sure how to not make these styles useless against gunners while not being op either.


-grip sounds are bugged in some maps and do not play at all. Grip also doesnt work on some servers, apparently depends how the server is hosted or smth.


-I can live with the 15 percent faster bullets but wouldnt mind that 5 percent compromise or ben's idea that slow rof weapons get to keep the buff.


Otherwise I am quite fine with the changes. I like it that flinch is consistent now.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

My first thought was to introduce some sort of bp regen scaling to styles' respective def values. Meaning the larger your bp pool is, the less bp you gain on pb and vice versa. I thought it would make sense that if you play a defensive style, you should be pb'ing more, but according to Stassin:

Now because Blue can barely scratch the surface of Yellow, and the main damage comes from interrupts. It would make sense that if you flail around carelessly with it, you should be punished. And I think it would be kind of ballsy, risk-reward situation for someone to switch to Red and pblock a careless spammer a few times to regen a chunk of bp. I think it would be neat to test something like that, because either way, fast style with large bp pool regenerating same amount of bp as any slower style doesn't sit right with me.

The PB regen system is rather pointless. You can have a defensive style that is rewarded for defense and is unique from slower styles. It is much easier to PB a faster style, as they require more attacks to do anything anyway, so the reward for PBing a faster style certainly shouldn't be that high. The main issue with sabering in 1.5 is how expensive everything is and how mindlessly rewarded you are in some cases vs others. You can lose so much BP from very random things, and then gain it all back from a PB you weren't even going for.

Messy patch.

 

[AaronAaron]

(duel mode only)

- Yellow v yellow feels so fucking good!!! Ive had really nice fights with aizen, sezer and that stassin(not recourse because i cant beat him yet) you've done a good job sir stassin and tiny tempest
- Red feels sooooo goooood tooooooooooooooooo. I see a lot of shit tiers complaining about it, but theres absolutely nothing wrong with it!!!
- Stafff is ok, but the halfswings are a bit fucked up cus of the animations. I suggest limiting its halfswings to one direction so i can actually have a fair fight with it
- Blue is alright, but i dont like the halfswings and interupts. Again, i suggest you limit the halfswings to one direction
- Purple + Blue special attack is fucked up if you try to attack. It double staggers and drains like 80 bp. Sure hope the double stagger is a bug...
- Cyan is so shit and im glad its shit. You can just remove the style, along with staff, duals and purple
- I havent used duals at all, havent duelled it either

- 8BP on PB is absolutely fine. Dont remove it. It punishes people for shit attacks and shit combos.
- Interupt damage is ok, but it can be a bit too much against blue. That might be a l2p issue though, so ill try dueling it a bit more
- Theres an annoying bug where i can pb after theyve attacked (similar to slap attack) Please fix it, it fucks things up
- Whenn players join theres fat lag PLEASE FIX
- I feel like a few of my attacks hit when they dont actually hit? Ive noticed people do this to me too...
- Dont listen to anything achilles has to say. He's playing a different game
- Dont listen to any of these people saying 1.4.9 was better. They probably refuse to adapt
- Dont listen to people like hleV who just complain about every single patch (that includes vasya)


Opinion might change later on when i get fucked by someone

 

[a puppy]

Yeah don't listen to feedback

 

[GoodOl'Ben]

-I can live with the 15 percent faster bullets but wouldnt mind that 5 percent compromise or ben's idea that slow rof weapons get to keep the buff.

I'll look into this with a close eye during the next two months.

 

[SeV]

I'll look into this with a close eye during the next two months.

I think the compromise of RoF vs bullet speed is interesting and could work out well. After all, there's a big difference between firing a CR3 while homing on your target, vs using e-11 primary or pistol 3.

 

[Manyo]

I think the compromise of RoF vs bullet speed is interesting and could work out well. After all, there's a big difference between firing a CR3 while homing on your target, vs using e-11 primary or pistol 3.

Yes, change each weapon individually instead of changing a key variable and hoping for the best.
It would be interesting to keep slow speeds for the bowcaster, giving it the unique feel of a real one while also nerfing the thing which probably wouldn't be an unpopular decision.

 

[GoodOl'Ben]

I think the compromise of RoF vs bullet speed is interesting and could work out well. After all, there's a big difference between firing a CR3 while homing on your target, vs using e-11 primary or pistol 3.

This is largely what we already have in place, but I think it wouldn't hurt to increase the difference slightly.

 

[DaloLorn]

Yes, change each weapon individually instead of changing a key variable and hoping for the best.
It would be interesting to keep slow speeds for the bowcaster, giving it the unique feel of a real one while also nerfing the thing which probably wouldn't be an unpopular decision.

I don't think that would be the right approach. As it stands, bowcasters are only overpowered when you have the high RoF of BW3 - in my experience, BW2 or BW1 tend to find themselves outmatched by most saberists (but then, what doesn't in this patch, aside from the Gods of Gunnery? ), and are roughly on par with a number of other guns.

That being said, it could prove to be an interesting component in Ben's bowcaster revamp.

 

[Manyo]

@DaloLorn: I agree that bowcaster 1 and 2 are very hard to use versus saberists at the moment. But i also think they are very strong versus gunners since you don't need to be in the open to charge a super powerful shot. There are multiple ways to rebalance bowcaster, i just thought it was neat idea within the current discussion. I did forget about the "new" bowcaster level 1 and 2 when coming up with it, though.

 

[Chocorope]

This is largely what we already have in place, but I think it wouldn't hurt to increase the difference slightly.

Yes it would, either give everyone same advantage, or don’t.

I doubt I’d pick slower C3 if I can have both a more reliable C2 + 2 life’s.

Beside all of this nonsense drive us slowy farther from the Star Wars lore, and if you build something upon Star Wars, beter respect it, or you’ll have something that will slowy merge into the same issue Disney Star Wars has, its won’t be credible and recognized as Star Wars anymore.

Respect the universe.

There’s more complex solutions that can be thought, allowing both balance and respect of the lore... don’t go for the easy path.