Tempest's Saber Build

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Well, it doesn't help anyone if you don't explain how the old nudge worked. the only information I can extract from what you said is "I think the newer nudge was worse because it didn't work with camera blocking."
that's only an opinion, not a description of a fact

With all due respect, you are on page 8 of a thread where nudge was already explained and video recorded on page 5. He didn't choose to not explain, you chose to not read.



Those are His ego fights where he is fighting some first timers you can't measure quality of sabering like that it does look enjoyable but he gets no real enemy to fight. I didn't see him PB once he is cheesing DFA and different spams this isn't even shadowswinging. If you had an equal fight it would be possible to say something this is so staged or just his opponents are so low level.

You are a donator but probably don't realize you are insulting one of MBII's ex project leader's youtube channel videos, where he clipped together demos and videos for the sole purpose of advertising to gain a bigger playerbase. Look one thread up and you'll see his forum etiquette rules stickied. These aren't FSMs "ego fights" where he's trashing on new MBII players, he was recording game logs to generate external interest for the game. Several of these logs were posted on JK, JA+, and other game forums and attracted a modest amount of players.


It was like you had to get your opponents saber to hit your saber so you blocked it, not really skillful or anything + staff & duals could block pretty much everything lel (if it was normal/neutral block back then as i think it was )

Staff was not PBable at its hilt which was dead center of the blocking animation. That's a pretty big gap for most players to get through. Blocking with duals has the defender hold each saber off to each side, leaving the defender completely open in the middle. Duals was actually well known as the absolute worst stance to attempt to block with for this reason.

The worst part is, these statements are completely false but they're asserted like fact. There's been well over 3 pages of well thought out and articulated discussion, and you still can't process the possibility that the "skillful" mechanics were watered down or phased out of the game. You are solely fixated on the fact that the current PB takes more skill.

To be clear, the current PB system does in fact take more skill than the old one. It also was very poorly received and was not considered as fun, hence the vast dueling dropoff. People simply did not like the fact that the focus of the saber vs saber interaction was shifted to invisible camera angles. It was verbally expressed in servers, and it's even archived on these forums if you need to see it. Whether you like the old PB or the current PB is an opinion - the results speak for themselves. The overwhelming number of duelists that left the game after V1.1 is not subjective.

The important part you are missing is that the other, more skillful parts of the saber system were made irrelevant. I'm not sure how you can't understand that after it's been described 3 different ways by 3-5 different people.

You can call it an opinion, but it is an indisputable fact that halfswings were coded to be slower, the parry window was greatly increased and more forgiving, which led to interrupts becoming much less of a factor, which also led to timing swings becoming irrelevant. Nudge being removed also took a large part of timing out of the equation. There's many more skillful parts of dueling that were hampered or deleted that I could expand on, but it's already been posted in this thread and others for years now.

You and Achilles have posted a lot in here, and I respect his opinion even though we have different viewpoints. He's able to fully register what everyone is saying and provide meaningful feedback. I don't how you manage to evade so much information when reading.
 
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k4far

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No, it wasn't. Tempest attempted to bring it back via 'normal block', and it was horrendously skill-less. There was no real way to control where your opponent's saber would be, and if you hit his saber, your damage didn't happen. So people could effectively block damage by having a seizure with mblock animation whilst staring at the floor.

In old sabering, amongst vets, that translated to 99% footwork, 1% style choice, as some styles had a distinct disadvantage due to their blocking stance.

If you say so.


I want to see build in which footwork > timing with saber > manual block > pb crap.
 

Hessu

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With all due respect, you are on page 8 of a thread where nudge was already explained and video recorded on page 5. He didn't choose to not explain, you chose to not read.





You are a donator but probably don't realize you are insulting one of MBII' ex project leader's youtube channel videos, where he clipped together demos and videos for the sole purpose of advertising to gain a bigger playerbase. Look one thread up and you'll see his forum etiquette rules stickied. These aren't FSMs "ego fights" where he's trashing on new MBII players, he was recording game logs to generate external interest for the game. Several of these logs were posted on JK, JA+, and other game forums and attracted a modest amount of players.




Staff was not PBable at its hilt which was dead center of the blocking animation. That's a pretty big gap for most players to get through. Blocking with duals has the defender hold each saber off to each side, leaving the defender completely open in the middle. Duals was actually well known as the absolute worst stance to attempt to block with for this reason.

The worst part is, these statements are completely false but they're asserted like fact. There's been well over 3 pages of well thought out and articulated discussion, and you still can't process the possibility that the "skillful" mechanics were watered down or phased out of the game. You are solely fixated on the fact that the current PB takes more skill.

To be clear, the current PB system does in fact take more skill than the old one. It also was very poorly received and was not considered as fun, hence the vast dueling dropoff. People simply did not like the fact that the focus of the saber vs saber interaction was shifted to invisible camera angles. It was verbally expressed in servers, and it's even archived on these forums if you need to see it. Whether you like the old PB or the current PB is an opinion - the results speak for themselves. The overwhelming number of duelists that left the game after V1.1 is not subjective.

The important part you are missing is that the other, more skillful parts of the saber system were made irrelevant. I'm not sure how you can't understand that after it's been described 3 different ways by 3-5 different people.

You can call it an opinion, but it is an indisputable fact that halfswings were coded to be slower, the parry window was greatly increased and more forgiving, which led to interrupts becoming much less of a factor, which also led to timing swings becoming irrelevant. Nudge being removed also took a large part of timing out of the equation.

You and Achilles have posted a lot in here, and I respect his opinion even though we have different viewpoints. He's able to fully register what everyone is saying and provide meaningful feedback. I don't how you manage to evade so much information when reading.

"You can call it an opinion, but it is an indisputable fact that halfswings were coded to be slower, the parry window was greatly increased and more forgiving, which led to interrupts becoming much less of a factor, which also led to timing swings becoming irrelevant. Nudge being removed also took a large part of timing out of the equation." Have you even played the current system? It's far from forgiving, interrupts and parries happen alot and swing timing is very important.
"It was like you had to get your opponents saber to hit your saber so you blocked it, not really skillful or anything + staff & duals could block pretty much everything lel (if it was normal/neutral block back then AS I THINK IT WAS) did you just miss out the last part of my sentence? I didn't state them as facts. From what i've seen and tried NB was less skillful and just a boring mechanic
And about opinions for example the majority of people liked 1.5 from what i've seen and the rest didn't like it, so its about opinions really just like old vets dislike the newer versions because they've lost some of the old mechanics.
 
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"You can call it an opinion, but it is an indisputable fact that halfswings were coded to be slower, the parry window was greatly increased and more forgiving, which led to interrupts becoming much less of a factor, which also led to timing swings becoming irrelevant. Nudge being removed also took a large part of timing out of the equation." Have you even played the current system? It's far from forgiving, interrupts and parries happen alot and swing timing is very important.
"It was like you had to get your opponents saber to hit your saber so you blocked it, not really skillful or anything + staff & duals could block pretty much everything lel (if it was normal/neutral block back then AS I THINK IT WAS) did you just miss out the last part of my sentence? I didn't state them as facts. From what i've seen and tried NB was less skillful and just a boring mechanic
And about opinions for example the majority of people liked 1.5 from what i've seen and the rest didn't like it, so its about opinions really just like old vets dislike the newer versions because they've lost some of the old mechanics.

The wall of text hurts but I'll break it up

Have you even played the current system? It's far from forgiving, interrupts and parries happen alot and swing timing is very important

I don't actually understand what you are saying. I'm not sure if you do either. Interrupts and parries happening in high frequency is completely contradictory for swing timing. Having more of both makes no sense. In direct relation to swing timing: On one end of the scale, when timing is extremely precise (the window is shorter) you have interrupts. On the completely other end of the spectrum, when timing is not factored in as decisively (the window is longer), you have a parry. You have more of one or the other, not both concurrently.

Have you even played the current system?
I referenced V1.3 somewhere but at no point in this thread have I said that I have played, nor have I commented on 1.5.1 (or whatever is currently live). I don't want to point out that you're misreading what I'm saying again but I don't know what else to say.

It was like you had to get your opponents saber to hit your saber so you blocked it, not really skillful or anything + staff & duals could block pretty much everything lel (if it was normal/neutral block back then as i think it was )

The blue is an opinion, the green is asserted as a fact. When you state a fact, it's usually assumed that the entire thought is a fact. Apparently those are two independent thoughts and you used a plus sign to separate them? You may not be a native English speaker so I can't fault you for that.

And about opinions for example the majority of people liked 1.5 from what i've seen and the rest didn't like it, so its about opinions really just like old vets dislike the newer versions because they've lost some of the old mechanics.

You don't need to guess or summarize why "the old vets dislike newer versions". Your generalization is unfortunately wrong. I already pointed out that it's been archived. This discussion is just the latest chapter in a debate that's been ongoing for several years now. In reality, you're actually pretty late to the party. If you're interested, I'll put some of the links I can find off the top of my head.


They aren't in order and that's certainly not all of them, but if you take the time to read through some of these pages you won't have to make sweeping generalizations and assumptions. It's all here.

edited post for clarity
 
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{Δ} Achilles

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"You can call it an opinion, but it is an indisputable fact that halfswings were coded to be slower, the parry window was greatly increased and more forgiving, which led to interrupts becoming much less of a factor, which also led to timing swings becoming irrelevant. Nudge being removed also took a large part of timing out of the equation." Have you even played the current system? It's far from forgiving, interrupts and parries happen alot and swing timing is very important.
"It was like you had to get your opponents saber to hit your saber so you blocked it, not really skillful or anything + staff & duals could block pretty much everything lel (if it was normal/neutral block back then AS I THINK IT WAS) did you just miss out the last part of my sentence? I didn't state them as facts. From what i've seen and tried NB was less skillful and just a boring mechanic
And about opinions for example the majority of people liked 1.5 from what i've seen and the rest didn't like it, so its about opinions really just like old vets dislike the newer versions because they've lost some of the old mechanics.

Firestrike was a top NA duelist for a very long time. He wasn't the best back when I played, but he did know how to use the system better than most, including myself (I was a youngin' in 1.3). Again, as he pointed out, this is more of a matter of opinion. The old PB system was less consistent, but people like Firestrike enjoyed it, it was probably a bit easier to understand.

However my personal preference is to keep the PB system, because I prefer consistency and skill over the weirdness that was the saber hitbox blocking. It may not make as much sense, but it works better as an actual game mechanic. I've explained to devs that it would be a good idea if the mblock animation played when looking at a PB zone, and the idea I had for the parry system to be deepened to include mblock animations so that you could potentially defend without necessarily needing to look at PB zones, would probably contribute to a more enjoyable experience for those that loved the old system - while not necessarily destroying what makes the new system, in my opinion, better.
 

Stassin

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but it is an indisputable fact that halfswings were coded to be slower, the parry window was greatly increased and more forgiving, which led to interrupts becoming much less of a factor, which also led to timing swings becoming irrelevant. Nudge being removed also took a large part of timing out of the equation.
These things right there, are probably some of the most important of all to discuss (along with PB and style switching).

About halfswings, actually the only halfswing that became slower in v1.4 is the dreaded A halfswing for all styles, while all the other directions were on the contrary made faster (in fact, the only other directions that were changed were the SD/D/WD directions, because they were all so slow and some caused spins depending on the style, thus they were underused and useless). Regardless i understand that the A halfswing was very iconic and such a huge part of the timing for most playstyles, that it needs to come back. And in fact even the slow ones brought something special to the gameplay so they should definitely all be made possible to do again.

About the parry mechanic, it's not exactly that the parry window was increased, but rather that parries were made to happen all the time within the existing window, instead of only on saber/saber collisions. It's the same issue as with the old saber/saber collision PB, while it did bring more precise timing and control to the gameplay it couldn't truly be controlled due to the complexity of the animations + the camera movements which both cause the saber to move around. So i want to try to experiment with bringing back this exact mechanic but only as a "perk" for a certain style, while trying another sort of parry mechanic for the rest of them, a mechanic that would keep the current consistency but not be so free anymore (in short, only have the current type of parry occur when both parties are swingblocking, otherwise have mutual bodyhits, with for example duals having the "perk" of the old system parries, and cyan having a perk where it can always parry when swingblocking even if the enemy non-swingblocks). Just reverting general mechanics to the old system wouldn't be progress, as the new systems do have some good points (mostly consistency at the cost of precision), so i think it best to try and experiment with new things to bring back precision without losing much consistency.

As for nudge, well i think most people from the new systems have a point that it doesn't work that well with the current camera aim-based PBing mechanic. But by putting this current PB only as a perk for a certain style, while having other sorts of PBs for other styles (or even no PB for yellow, for a more simple experience that i believe alot of people would enjoy, of course warranting a substantial increase in yellow's BP value), including the old system PB probably for blue (which i think is the best suited for it because it could always PB the most consistently thanks to its stance), i think we can definitely try experimenting with nudge once again. And personally i'd love to also bring back blocking animations on idle saber clashes like in RC1, those felt pretty good.
 
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However my personal preference is to keep the PB system, because I prefer consistency and skill over the weirdness that was the saber hitbox blocking. It may not make as much sense, but it works better as an actual game mechanic. I've explained to devs that it would be a good idea if the mblock animation played when looking at a PB zone, and the idea I had for the parry system to be deepened to include mblock animations so that you could potentially defend without necessarily needing to look at PB zones, would probably contribute to a more enjoyable experience for those that loved the old system - while not necessarily destroying what makes the new system, in my opinion, better.

This sounds great actually. Not the last part about the parry system though, simply because having two methods of blocking would be redundant and would make it needlessly complicated.

But if we made it so it showed the corresponding mblock animation with a pblock, not only would it look more aesthetic it would actually be easier for people to pick up on perfect blocking. Also to add onto this we should make it so the pb zones are a bit bigger so people won’t be looking near the zone and be dumbfounded when no pblock indicator or animation shows up.
 

Hessu

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The wall of text hurts but I'll break it up



I don't actually understand what you are saying. I'm not sure if you do either. Interrupts and parries happening in high frequency is completely contradictory for swing timing. Having more of both makes no sense. In direct relation to swing timing: On one end of the scale, when timing is extremely precise (the window is shorter) you have interrupts. On the completely other end of the spectrum, when timing is not factored in as decisively (the window is longer), you have a parry. You have more of one or the other, not both concurrently.

I referenced V1.3 somewhere but at no point in this thread have I said that I have played, nor have I commented on 1.5.1 (or whatever is currently live). I don't want to point out that you're misreading what I'm saying again but I don't know what else to say.



The blue is an opinion, the green is asserted as a fact. When you state a fact, it's usually assumed that the entire thought is a fact. Apparently those are two independent thoughts and you used a plus sign to separate them? You may not be a native English speaker so I can't fault you for that.



You don't need to guess or summarize why "the old vets dislike newer versions". Your generalization is unfortunately wrong. I already pointed out that it's been archived. This discussion is just the latest chapter in a debate that's been ongoing for several years now. In reality, you're actually pretty late to the party. If you're interested, I'll put some of the links I can find off the top of my head.


They aren't in order and that's certainly not all of them, but if you take the time to read through some of these pages you won't have to make sweeping generalizations and assumptions. It's all here.

edited post for clarity
you're right i didn't give too much thought of what i said so lets give it another try :-d

" the parry window was greatly increased and more forgiving, which led to interrupts becoming much less of a factor, which also led to timing swings becoming irrelevant." i can agree with this on 1.4 up until 1.5 but in 1.5 interrupts and swing timing became much more important and it was a very punishing system. I don't remember much about 1.3 because i started back in december 2015 and didn't know anything about the mechanics (and still my in depth game mechanic knowledge is not great)

The opinion part, yes i'm not a native english speaker so i failed there, it was an assumption from my own expriences in a beta which had NB.
 
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I'll have to admit that I would not mind some changes to the current system . I played some today and I have to say that I did not enjoy it that much.

I don't think that the pb system is the biggest flaw as it is more reliable and easier to grasp for newer players, but i miss the abillity to nudge and use halfswings like before.
 

SeV

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I'll have to admit that I would not mind some changes to the current system . I played some today and I have to say that I did not enjoy it that much.

I don't think that the pb system is the biggest flaw as it is more reliable and easier to grasp for newer players, but i miss the abillity to nudge and use halfswings like before.



Hello all, just stopping by today after a few months to check on how things are going. Lol... if you do what I say in this post for nov/dec release MB2 will get dueling back. If you don't, well good luck to you. It's been almost a year since my last video. What the fuck?

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I think random interrupts performed by spamming each other is over-emphasized, and leads to either more random noob spam or playing too cautiously to avovid getting hit by a random 50% BP swing. Maybe not technically correct in terms of numbers, but that feeling is part of the problem of recent systems and part of why interrupt damage cannot be made super high despite what people may say. BP drains and BP gains need to be consistent, and the system needs to emphasize consistency. The reason why people still remember 1.3 is because it had very consistent PBing, for one thing. So while it in theory makes sense to increase interrupt damage to all hell, it does not in practice produce fun gameplay.

I haven't played the game in ages, but from what I hear there's a problem with instant unpredictable BP damage spikes and I surmise the likely cause to be interrupt damage or some other form of spikey multiplier, intended to increase skill but simply producing volatile gameplay. True skill can only show itself when mechanics are consistent and predictable to a large extent, let's say 80-90%

---

I was recently looking through some of my older videos and had some thoughts regarding the saber system and what it should be. Without writing a long and complicated post, I think it can be summed up thus.

Yellow should be close to what is seen in this video and ACM should not matter much. It should not be overcomplicated. Rather, removed in favour of slower regen when you're at 33% BP coupled with 20% of style/attack AP, parry drains.

In the video example of yellow vs yellow below, I want you to notice yellows halfswing speed and combo speed, and how it flows more beautifully. Also notice how the A swings chunk into the opponent with violent speed. It is a beautiful combination. I would also like to see yellow combo limit of 5, how that would play out esp if we get A halfswings back and adjust other things properly.


Here is what red should be. More or less. It should have nudge but not the retarded 50% parry drains of 1.4.3 present in the video. It should also not have huge AP and tiny BP, but more moderate numbers to make it feel like a consistent style.


I don't have videos for blue and other styles to point to. But I think duals should be useless or removed. Serious mode, duals have cyan AP and yellow BP. Combo limit 4 and takes 0 damage from parried swings. Should be able to move while using crouch kata but crouch kata costs 90 FP.

Cyan should be made closer to yellow in speed, and 100% consistent speed-wise on all swings, combo capped at 6. Slightly lower AP than yellow, slightly higher BP than yellow.

Blue should be 100% consistent in swingspeed too, meaning combos would be slower and halfswings about the same maybe slightly slower. It should have lower AP than cyan but not by much, higher BP than cyan but not by much. Combo limit 8. (Slap exists you know).

Purple should have slightly higher AP than yellow, slightly lower BP than yellow, and a combo limit of 4. Slightly slower speed than yellow, and instant PB counter perk. No stab or kata because that is disgusting.

Staff should have yellow AP and yellow BP but a wider defense arch (including safety from backwhacks). Combo limit 6. Can mblock without needing to PB, but mblock is only disarm, doesn't have fucking combo stopping or stagger or ACM shit. Just disarm or not disarm and has a short cd like 3 sec and no BP cost. Should be able to move while using crouch kata but crouch kata costs 90 FP.



----

General notes.

Swingblock should increase your damage over non-swingblocked hits. (Fuck retarded devs that say this is a bad idea. It rewards skilled players over unskilled spammers)

The defense arc for sidewhacks should be decreased so that it's easier to side-whack someone that isn't paying attention. Also boosts the value of staffs defense arc 'perk'.

Attacks while you are running should deal normal damage, not more or less.

Attacks while crouching should deal normal damage, not more or less. But getting hit while crouching should triple the damage you take. Crouching should not prevent BP regen, taking much more dmg while crouching is enough.

Combo swings should no longer deal less damage than halfswings. Needs to be consistent dmg output. Adjust defenses accordingly to compensate. And one question: Do you really think that reducing combo damage has actually helped combat the 4 hit combo meta? From my perspective, 4 hit combo meta or just combo spam in general will always be a thing due to parries, ACM, high interrupt damage, lockdowns etc. Should also mention that it is easier to PB combos than halfswing spam and what's more exciting? Furious and rapid swing exchanges or a duel where both parties are doing 1 or 2 hit swings and running away after every exchange to try and dodge the others swings due to ACM being such a huge factor.

- Just want to make sure that PBing is still available in returns like the old semi-PB. Semi-PB should be available during attack starts to help combat fast styles and yawing. Set it at something like 80% so that you can negate the interrupt dmg but still take normal damage from getting hit in the timing window. (If you yaw your attacks you wont have semi-pb capabilities in starts or returns, which indirectly nerfs yawing and buffs ppl who are good at PB).

Fine-tune the parry windows for timing as firestrike and others have said, and make the interrupt multiplier reasonably small. Assuming most damage is 1.0x it should be no bigger than 1.3x and I am leaning towards 1.2x aka 20% more dmg for an interrupt. So if your attack deals 10 dmg, an interrupt would be 12 dmg. That way, halfswings with yellow can serve their purpose once more as timing thingies. Can also consider making halfswing parries take 0 dmg where combo/consecutive swing parries 20% of bodyhit dmg. This way halfswings can be used to do interrupt timings and gain distance.

Another thing to fix the perceived issue of halfswing vs combo spam is to make sure that halfswings are rewarded appropriately with a good BP regen compared to someone that hits 4 swings in a row all the time. It should add up. You know the math and how to do this. (Not flat BP swing costs, god forbid a return to that piece of shit 1.4.4)

Lastly, make all special attacks cost FP again and get rid of the fucking retarded idea that specials should cost BP. They should be an added element that you can throw out now and then to catch the opponent off guard, not a huge gamble where you throw away a chunk of BP on the off chance that you hit the attack. To balance cost with performance BP wise you'd need to make specials deal huge spikey damage, and I've already remarked upon how spikey damage negatively affects dueling.

Oldben's stupid idea about aiming at someone's body to perform a PB could be applied to special attacks, and the PB could be a semi-PB. I don't really care. I just want specials to be more prevalent because they add to the style of duels. Banish the fucking BP cost idea from your mind and add back the FP specials.


---

Experimental but gud shit:

ACM removed.

Heal added as a force power for both sides.

Bodyhits drain 2 HP.
PBs give you 1 HP.
 
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No 1.3 zones thanks already tried it with stassin its way too easy


do you live in another universe or something? you seem to remember stuff no one ever remembers

In 1.3 I remember destroying new players in 1v15s consistently because of my cyan and unparalleled footwork. If you're wondering who taught me how to use cyan, it was Kael, who is arguably the best player to ever play this mod. Because of Kael, I could defeat the top EU duelists like Exodus, Sekundus and even SeV after just 3 month

Haha , you crack me up :p
 
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SeV

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Lul, that must be achilles? Either way it's retarded and untrue.

About the 1.3 zones, they need adjustment, but some PB zone overlap is necessary for the zones to feel consistent. And small zones do not work well because there is so much dynamic movement in MB2. You need to extend them outward to compensate for left and right, and make them deep from front to back so that you can PB someone that turns their side to you with yaw and does SD+WD+SD+WD style combos.
 

FrenzY

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I think a good chunk of your dueling feedback is good, but healing from PB? wat. We already have tons of folks who just sit around and camp, adding heal to Jedi/Sith is a horrible idea. Enough of these ideas that Jedi/Sith somehow need a buff. They don't. They are easily the most versatile and OP class (in the right hands) in the game. Sure, fix sabering a bit (Tempest's build seems really great so far minus some obvious bugs) but we really need to talk more about saber vs gunners and stop sitting in the quicksand with all these Honor Duel ideas.
 
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Hello all, just stopping by today after a few months to check on how things are going. Lol... if you do what I say in this post for nov/dec release MB2 will get dueling back. If you don't, well good luck to you. It's been almost a year since my last video. What the fuck?
whilst this made me cringe and you said the same thing about 1.5 (near enough) i actually agree on MOST things you said.

i'll point out the things I don't agree with (paraphrasing what u wrote):

- yellow faster a half swing/yellow speeds from the video you posted - to me that doesn't look at all more fluent or engaging than what we had in 1.4.9, which is where I think yellows speeds, collisions etc were perfect. A half swing is an annoying one trick pony which nullifies the usage of other swings and with yaw is nearly unreactable.

- ACM - Acm was what made 1.4.9 more FUN than 1.5. I know I was a huge advocate for removing it, but you don't miss what you had till its gone. I love the mindgames it produced, and whilst I don't think any build should have as large of a reliance on it as 1.4.9 did, I think if 1.4.9 had more base damage, then ACM on top of it, it would have been fine

- Halfswing/combo damage - we might be agreeing here i'm not sure. Lets guess that you can perform 2 half swings in the timing of 4 combo hits, the damage of 2 half swings should equal the damage of 4 combo hits. Neither method therefore is cucked

- Crouch damage being 3X only when you're hit could probably invoke some aids meta of crouching to hit then ss'ing out to not get hit, it would have to apply to parries and so on as well as simply being bodyhit or else crouch -> 4 hit would be a stupid OP defence method
 
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at 0:25 you can see him nudge counter, A swing, D swing, A swing, and then you see a halfswing, a pause, then a nudge swing.

This is what a real half-swing is. The speed, the interrupt, the versatility. That accompanied by nudge ( which is also in the video) would bring back some fun to dueling, which it is sorely lacking. What we have currently is a pale imitation of what dueling used to once be.
 
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at 0:25 you can see him nudge counter, A swing, D swing, A swing, and then you see a halfswing, a pause, then a nudge swing.

This is what a real half-swing is. The speed, the interrupt, the versatility. That accompanied by nudge ( which is also in the video) would bring back some fun to dueling, which it is sorely lacking. What we have currently is a pale imitation of what dueling used to once be.

i loved dueling when it was like this, but hated spectating somebody dueling.

staring at the floor is a lot less fun when you're not really involved.
 

SeV

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What build is that?
Horrible stagger patch. I think ben knows about it since it was his work (if I remembered incorrectly then sorry lol). I think it was V0 something or just V0. The one after RC3P3 or near those patches, but that's just from pure memory. It's thereabouts though.

I still deeply regret I don't have footage of me dueling in RC1 and RC3P3 and the oldest footage I have is from a 'bad' patch that doesn't properly represent the awesomeness of dueling. The patch in the video has a phantom attack bug when staggering and it's quite a mess what with stagger on bodyhit below half BP basically removing a whole tier of mind games that you could do and making it way easier to read the opponent and preventing you from faking high BP and all that jazz. But as defiled pointed out the halfswing is nice.
 
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What build is that?

It was Version 0.1.5 most likely since that's when stagger on a body hit was introduced.

Body hits and counter-strikes now cause a stagger animation during duels
  • Stagger is played only if player has less than half BP
  • Red stance causes stagger without BP restrictions
  • Red stance attacks now break through perfect block

V1 was the best build since RC1-3 although most newer players will disagree because they have started after key features like halfswing and nudge were erased from existance. But the video I linked minus the stagger is a testament to how good and fun dueling once was.

I couldn't find any V1 dueling videos.

Edit: Look how powerful red was, absolute disgusting. Who made that suggestion?
 
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