Push 3 Balance

[SomeGuy]

Welcome to the topic. Please excuse the name, I didn't think too hard about it but this should probably be called

Force Push Re Balance​

Let me start of here by first saying I do not think Push is Overpowered and this is Not a Nerf Thread. But there is a problem I have with how it affects gameplay. The issue that I want addressed here is The Use of Push 3 as a player crutch and this is what I want to see removed.
Not sure what I mean by that? Let me explain then. I'm sure a lot of you have noticed that Push 3 is easy to use to knock down targets and get some nice ground kills. All the while it is also easy to stop by walking, crouching or standing still. But the real issue is that it is much easier to use Push and very forgiving in mistakes by the user.
What does this mean? Well, simply put, it means that a Pusher has to put forth less effort in an engagement as opposed to his target. And to add a little more to it, a Force User without Push level 3 has to put forth even more effort than his opponent if not the same. This is not good from a gameplay balance standpoint.
What happens from this, then? Well, most Force User class configs basically have Push 3 as a necessity rather than an option. Players become reliant on it and other great elements become unused.
But hasn't Push remained the same for many years? Yes it has, but I never noticed the problem until recently.
How did I see this issue? It actually happened to be the large influx of brand new players. Watching them progress in player ability map after map or even days. But the thing I noticed the most is that they all used Push 3.
What's wrong with them all using Push? Nothing, except for the fact that they try out other classes or force powers but fail and go back to Push 3.
Why would they go back to using Push 3 over and over? After seeing this and examining it, I saw it helped their player ability. Sure, they still weren't very good but they were substantially better than not using it.
So this is a New Player problem? No, not at all. The new players merely opened my eyes by seeing the sheer number of them doing it. I am certain everybody knows of one or a few players who exclusively play Jedi with Push 3.
How does Push help these players out so much? From what I concluded it is because Push is extremely simple and easy to use. It can even be used in a majority of situations. Not much effort has to be used to be averagely effective at the game now.

Now in my opinion this is not fair at all because all players should have to give the same amount of effort to be effective. Sure, all players are different and some are better than others or vice versa. But they all try about the same to be a positive contribution to the team. Just because someone is good or bad at playing doesn't mean they aren't trying.

So, from all this I try and figure out a way to complete this objective: Make Push Harder to Use for Bad Players but Still Retain it's Effectiveness for Good Players.

Here we go then, my idea is below. I am certainly also not saying my idea is the best one or the only option. The one directly below is an edit after reading things from this thread and mashing them together while also thinking of other gameplay elements and how they work. My very original idea, which was pointed out would actually be a nerf (which is not my plan) is at the very bottom.

Probably the most important part of the topic is that these are all suggestions, which means they are not guaranteed to be implemented and are also all subject to change. Everybody here should be striving to make the game a better experience. I implore everybody to share their suggestions, ideas, and thoughts. The key word is collaboration.

Another extremely important part of it is that we all discuss this in a constructive, mature, and polite manner. I don't want to see the thread devolve any more than it has because there are some very good ideas here. If you need an example, here are a couple.

This is how to not be constructive.
Person 1: I think that (x) should work this way because of (y).
Person 2: Hah, (x) is fine you just need to do (z) better.
This is how to be constructive.
Person 1: I think that (x) should work this way because of (y).
Person 2: I don't understand your issue with (x), you can just do (z), can you help me understand?​

So after thinking through after all the things people posted I came up with a new idea built upon some of it. Of course all not set in stone.

Push 3 changes to have a narrower knockdown area which is like a tube in front of the Jedi that is a bit around the crosshairs. Not as pinpoint as a blaster shot but they would still basically need to be aiming at them. But here's the twist, it only is like that for instant button pushes. To compensate the animation should be sped up by about a quarter of a second, reducing the time that the Jedi is vulnerable. But wait, there's more. The power can also be charged up for maybe around 2 or 3 seconds for maximum to unleash a full scale Push that knocks down all runners in the regular arc. Also I think the charged up blast should push things back with greater velocity. That would make for some fun grenade tosses. Although, the charge should not be able to be held indefinite so after maybe 2 or 3 seconds of holding automatically goes off. Now, to think of our saberless Jedi friends even more can come of this but this is just expanding on the idea so it may be too much. Jedi with no sabers using Push 3 in melee can just tap it for full effect like it is now, but if they charge it fully it can Push over everybody in it's line of fire regardless of movement status. It would probably use more FP to compensate but that could make a force only Jedi a very valuable part of a team during a standoff. The issue of wookiees and SBDs I don't know of but if they could fall from it, would be a very useful ally to have.

This can even be applied to Pull to make it affect a group after a charge, which would give that power a bigger oompf it definitely needs!

There have been a number of ideas posted in the thread, which may need to be expanded on and complimented, such as:

• All levels of Push knockdown at different ranges and spreads
• Changes in Force Point cost
• Changes in Class Point cost
• Delay before pushing
• Charge up before use
• Differing types of knockback areas

Below is my first original post.

Now before you all start saying "l2walk" what this stems from is just the amount of Jedi/Sith who only use Push 3 as their main offensive weapon. In my opinion it is way too effective and versatile for how cheap it costs in both class points and FP. When looking at Pull, not only does it cost more, but it is harder to use due to the direct aim required and shorter range. I have seen plenty of players who don't use Push 3, but in comparison to the majority that do they need to play a lot smarter and harder. Push is just too easy.

My proposed fix is very simple although I don't know if the engine allows it. Have push be the way it is for range and AOE, especially projectiles, except for the knockdown which needs to be on the crosshair. Of course the closer the range the more lax this would be and anyone pushed outside of the knockdown sweet spot would still get pushed back, to help get those guys on a cliff. Pull could even be reworked the same way so a large group of people could be nudged closer rather than fall down.

This would increase the skill required to use it and help reduce the class spam for people looking to get easy kills but still maintain the support role it can fill.

Here is a representation of what I mean.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v335/DarkFett/push._zpsbkp88iqp.jpg

 

[Revanic]

If their powers become more supportive, and less offensive. Then they would need more defense to balance that out.

 

[Puppytine]

Just watch two players who are around the same experience and skill level go at it. Say an elite trooper versus a Jedi and it will not be a 50/50 fight. It is closer to 65/35 with the Jedi out on top. Yes, some classes have specific anti Jedi abilties and they can be used to great effect but they still require more effort than push. Using your melee as a gunner can be a death sentence if you don't get it perfect. All the people opposed in this thread act as though aiming for a knockdown would just ruin the class completely. It would only make you try the same as the gunner.

Oh come on, you must be kidding me.
Look, people in this thread say over and over again that it should be equal fight or gunner even should have advantage. It could be a death sentence to a gunner only if both players are newbies, and only in that case. @Vitéz already explained it 7 pages ago.

My concern is in public matches, not really the competitive high tier, since that is where the majority of play is.

What high tier? Since lower mid-skill chances are equal.

Clones get blobs which are invaluable for taking out Sith.

Oh no, you really just kidding me! This is the most weird thing I've ever seen on these forums, seriously.

Blobs are the most effective and overpowered thing against sith, I'm afraid to say. Two (three) clones with blobs take out the whole sith team so ez, no matter what imps are doing.
It's especially useful when there is a sniper behind clones who makes a new holes in knock downed sith.

Woah, we don't need unlimited ammo. Thats way too much.
I will settle for regen ammo like what the sbd does. But thats it.

ok, regen ammo. Also I thought about if there would be a special places on the maps, where gunners could pick up more bullets.
I'm not sure of what impact unlimited/regenerating ammo will have on gunner vs gunner fight, you should know it better, but I think it would be ok in 1 saberist vs 1 gunner scenario.

If push becomes an aimed skill, but you make that push vulnerability window shorter to a 0.5 intead of a whole second.
I am willing to accept that world.

I've already told you and @SomeGuy so many times it would be a straight nerfing. This will make push almost useless even if you completely remove vulnerability.

It's like a ride on taxi for $100 and get to the airport in time vs ride only for $5 but arrive 1 minute after your airplane took off.

As an alternative what about a reduction of FP loss with a push, to maybe 15 rather than the 20 we have now?

Yet another try to kidding me in this topic.
What next offer would be, "we remove push but let you to choose a color of coffin in which you gonna be buried"?

I already posted few times, the only acceptable way to nerf push is significantly buff all other force powers and/or points coefficients. Significantly, Carl!
But instead I see only nerfing, nerfing, nerfing page by page, same set of suggestions. It's very ironic since OP says "this is not a nerf thread".

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

It's all in your head.

 

[Shalak Que]

If the #1 Jedi/Sith abiilty is nerfed, basically every single other anti-Jedi skill must be nerfed too. The proposed change makes sense, but IMO is isnt worth it. And there's the other side that Push can be countered via walking. Gameplay-wise its fair, because its an easy skill to use, but also easy to counter. Pull is harder to use, but the reward is also greater (enemy is closer and gunner lose weapon). If you make Push harder to use, what will be the extra reward for using it?
Anyway, its ridiculous that some players are still complaining about "push whores"... is it their fault that they're using their abilities, while you dont use yours? Seriously, grow up ppl and learn to use gunner classes properly already. Or you know, LEGO Star Wars is always a possibility for you.

and the mb2 forums just became world war 3 RIP EVERYONE

 

[SomeGuy]

Blobs are the most effective and overpowered thing against sith, I'm afraid to say.

I read your entire post and this is all I can focus on. I am completely dumbfounded by this. I don't even know how to respond to such ridiculousness.

Anyway, I guess not many people seem to see that as things get changed, while Push remains the same, it becomes more powerful as a result. This mod is based off of a Jedi Knight game and if you want to go slaughtering scores of helpless gunners I would suggest to go play that or TFU or something. This is supposed to be a balanced experience.

Through the years you see things other classes get nerfed over and over but people adapt and still manage to play. This would not be any different.

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

Might as well rename this to jedi battles 2. They don't seem to really care about the other classes except this exact one.
God forbid people think about the big picture instead.

Learning to walk, this hasn't been touched for years, are not arguments. I haven't see a single good point while we have brought up a whole collection of different ideas and topics. Which of course all it got ignored. Gives me the illusion of talking to a wall, which we probably are.

 

[Derek Jeter]

Dude your strawman is really getting old.
Push has been the same for so long because its balanced/easily countered.
The vulnerability frames/the fp drain/ and being able to run shortly after getting pushed when walking, using common sense is all it takes to win. Not to mention you get pushed farther away.

And blobs being op against sith is extremely old hat....

I feel like you guys aren't experienced enough or just trolling.

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

Push has been the same for so long because its balanced/easily countered.

Your strawman died page 3. I can repeat myself too.

"Because it hasn't been touched in years doesn't mean its balanced."
"One jedi can control a whole room of gunners."
See how annoying that is? Talking to somebody and they keep repeating themselves ignoring all sense of reason and discussion?

Also people just continue to bring up other classes and stuff completely unrelated.
If clones are a problem go make a thread about it, its completely unrelated to what we are talking about.

 

[AgentGibbs]

Your strawman died page 3. I can repeat myself too.

"Because it hasn't been touched in years doesn't mean its balanced."
"One jedi can control a whole room of gunners."
See how annoying that is? Talking to somebody and they keep repeating themselves ignoring all sense of reason and discussion?

Also people just continue to bring up other classes and stuff completely unrelated.
If clones are a problem go make a thread about it, its completely unrelated to what we are talking about.

Push is completely balanced, and I will explain this after I probe the above post. You are correct that just because something has not been touched in yeras does not make it balanced, however you are wrong that one or even two for that matter can even fight against 5 gunners. Lets say for instance you have 5 et's or commanders however you know them by, with e11 level 3. These 5 gunners could tear through a jedi's fp in a matter of 5-7 seconds WITHOUT the jedi pushing. If the jedi pushes not only does he use another 20fp he also opens himself up to be shot by 1 of any of these 5 gunners, but now with the current nerfs to jedi when you get shot you lose extra fp so now you have taken the jedi's fp to 0 in a matter of 3 seconds after he pushes. If you do not believe me go play on AOD Pandemonium and watch what happens to a solo jedi in fed or tjunc. The fact that you complain about people bringing up other classes also shows your incompetence to how the game works, you complain about push and how it is unfair against gunners, but then you say we can't use the gunning classes against you in our argument. These other classes such as clone are a valid point because blobs are a counter to the push skill, it knocks over the sith the same way the push knocks over the gunner. At that blobs also deal damage AND have infinite range.

Now here are the reasons push is still balanced to me. First push is easily countered by walking, and even if you want to bring in the fact that the jedi/sith also has a light saber so running away isn't an option this is irrelevant. As long as the jedi/sith is running around or towards you, you should be walking and constantly pelting them with gunfire to drain their fp, now either the jedi/sith pushes while you're walking they open themselves up to be shot and take further fp drain, or the jedi/sith gets close enough to swing in this instance as soon as the swing starts you are given a safe time to run and dodge the saber during the swing. Second push is balanced because even if it knocks you over if the jedi/sith was at a farther distance they push you out of the range of them being able to saber them. This makes long range pushes useless as a jedi or sith unless they are trying to run away. Third, you say that jedi or sith can push back multiple explosives at a time is also only partially correct yes a single push can change the direction of multiple explosives, BUT they are not all pushed back accurately. There is only one explosive pushed back accurate while the rest either go straight up or to the side and this is why one sith is not enough to hold main against a team of rebs with frags and rockets. This would create an even bigger issue with the cone effect push because it would mean only 1 nade could be pushed at a time which takes push completely out of the equation for supporting.

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

2 Paragraphs

Man this is gonna suck quoting, however you get a point for actually adding to the discussion.
Also, did people remove spell check from their browsers? Yeah I spell like shit, which is why I modify my posts 10 times.

Push is completely balanced, and I will explain this after I probe the above post. You are correct that just because something has not been touched in yeras does not make it balanced, however you are wrong that one or even two for that matter can even fight against 5 gunners. Lets say for instance you have 5 et's or commanders however you know them by, with e11 level 3. These 5 gunners could tear through a jedi's fp in a matter of 5-7 seconds WITHOUT the jedi pushing.

So what if he has deflect 3, apparently its a death sentence to shoot people with deflect 3 because reflected shots can turn into head shots or kill other teammates. And he can just push my grenade if I even try to do so, unless I can do a perfect concussion throw. Which is unlikely.

If the jedi pushes not only does he use another 20fp he also opens himself up to be shot by 1 of any of these 5 gunners, but now with the current nerfs to jedi when you get shot you lose extra fp so now you have taken the jedi's fp to 0 in a matter of 3 seconds after he pushes. If you do not believe me go play on AOD Pandemonium and watch what happens to a solo jedi in fed or tjunc.

What does this have to do with how easy it is to press the F key?

The fact that you complain about people bringing up other classes also shows your incompetence to how the game works, you complain about push and how it is unfair against gunners, but then you say we can't use the gunning classes against you in our argument.These other classes such as clone are a valid point because blobs are a counter to the push skill, it knocks over the sith the same way the push knocks over the gunner. At that blobs also deal damage AND have infinite range.

Now your putting words in my mouth, this discussion is about a skill. Here is an example of off topic points.
"Arc troopers can recover faster"
Yes we know that, this is a discussion about the push skill and how easy it is to use and how benefits outweigh the cons.
What do arc troopers have to do with anything?

Now that you bring it up, gunners with force support are basically kill teams. If I am attacked by a soldier and jedi im basically dead because im forced to walk. The soldier will beat the shit out of me because im slow as fuck and cant really do anything. And im forced the walk because there is the implication and strong possibility if I let go. I will be pushed down.

Now here are the reasons push is still balanced to me. First push is easily countered by walking, and even if you want to bring in the fact that the jedi/sith also has a light saber so running away isn't an option this is irrelevant.

Yes it is relevant, I cant disengage because im forced to shoot 5 jedi in front of me. I am dead if I try to run because if I let go of shift I will be knocked down. Every single time 10 out of 10 times. However jedi and sith don't suffer from this. They can run all they like, they just have to face my direction or jump all over the place until they reach cover or a corner. Then they can run away.

In-fact they can run at me and zigzag which is just not fun to deal with even with experience. They never have to walk if they know what their doing. But I don't get that luxury. I have to walk at all times.

As long as the jedi/sith is running around or towards you, you should be walking and constantly pelting them with gunfire to drain their fp,

They have deflect 3, now what?

now either the jedi/sith pushes while you're walking they open themselves up to be shot and take further fp drain, or the jedi/sith gets close enough to swing in this instance as soon as the swing starts you are given a safe time to run and dodge the saber during the swing.

Actually you can push when you cancel swings and canceling takes like a millisecond.

because even if it knocks you over if the jedi/sith was at a farther distance they push you out of the range of them being able to saber them. This makes long range pushes useless as a jedi or sith unless they are trying to run away.

I mostly agree, but then they use speed to close the gap making the long range push effective.
Or sith, use lighting to keep me suppressed until they are in close enough, assuming the lighting doesn't kill me.

Third, you say that jedi or sith can push back multiple explosives at a time is also only partially correct yes a single push can change the direction of multiple explosives, BUT they are not all pushed back accurately.

Actually I never brought that specifically up.

There is only one explosive pushed back accurate while the rest either go straight up or to the side and this is why one sith is not enough to hold main against a team of rebs with frags and rockets. This would create an even bigger issue with the cone effect push because it would mean only 1 nade could be pushed at a time which takes push completely out of the equation for supporting.

Again I am not a fan of that cone thing at all, charge skill, whatever. My idea was just aiming the skill just for knockdown to occur. Not touching the fact you can push multiple explosives away. I never mentioned that or said that should be changed I only said aim the skill on the person if you want knock down.

Someguy also brought up a good point how people adapt. Gunners have always been getting hit with a nerf bat and tweaked. Yet we adapted. If jedi players can't adapt when their class gets modified, that tells me they were using crutches and have to relearn the game.

 

[Phelps]

I read your entire post and this is all I can focus on. I am completely dumbfounded by this. I don't even know how to respond to such ridiculousness.

I am completely dumbfounded you think otherwise, even I rape saberists with clone and I am a very average player. CR2, Blob 3, Reinf, Ammo 2, Armor 2, Pistol 2 and you are in for a big fuck up.

Might as well rename this to jedi battles 2. They don't seem to really care about the other classes except this exact one.
God forbid people think about the big picture instead.

Stop insulting Jedi/Sith players. If you hate the class, change the game. You know I couldn't notice, that this toxicity of yours, against saberists, can be seen in almost every thread you post in, even in totally unrelated ones like racism thread. When you get over your unnecessary hate towards the discussed class, come back. We are seeing the big picture, because, unlike you, we play both, gunners and sabers, we do not need to insult something (and its users), that makes this game original. And if you weren't blind with hate towards saber users, you could see me agreeing here with changes, trying to find some middle ground, but people like you make it hard.

Your insulting is annoying and makes people like me quit on reasonable discussion (and I did that - yet you put us all in the same bag), but the only ones capable of that kind of discussion are @SomeGuy and @Mr_Oujamaflip

Man this is gonna suck quoting, however you get a point for actually adding to the discussion.
Also, did people remove spell check from their browsers? Yeah I spell like shit, which is why I modify my posts 10 times.

Way to go insulting yet again.

So what if he has deflect 3, apparently its a death sentence to shoot people with deflect 3 because reflected shots can turn into head shots or kill other teammates. And he can just push my grenade if I even try to do so, unless I can do a perfect concussion throw. Which is unlikely.

Not a valid argument. Getting Deflect 3 and Push 3 is crippling your build in other ways - like for example - less defense (BP against other saber raped), less attack, less Force block (danger of being Pushed, Gripped). But I guess with your bias and hate, you wouldn't team up with fellow saberist to take D3 saberist down. If you do not have saberist in the team, that is no argument. Your problem is, you don't know the class and you can't read it, that's why you hate it.

Now that you bring it up, gunners with force support are basically kill teams.

Good thing that both teams can have Force support. You should not be ashamed to use your fellow team mate saberist, he might save your hide many times.

If I am attacked by a soldier and jedi im basically dead because im forced to walk. The soldier will beat the shit out of me because im slow as fuck and cant really do anything. And im forced the walk because there is the implication and strong possibility if I let go. I will be pushed down.

Again, where is the validity of your argument? Same will happen even if Push is changed to proposed idea. You basically point out a problem, that is not Push problem, but team problem. You see Jedi and sold charging up on you? Run, search for teammates, if you are last, fight to the last breath. I saw a lot of last man standing, even against Pushers that eventually come out of it as victorious.

Yes it is relevant, I cant disengage because im forced to shoot 5 jedi in front of me. I am dead if I try to run because if I let go of shift I will be knocked down. Every single time 10 out of 10 times. However jedi and sith don't suffer from this. They can run all they like, they just have to face my direction or jump all over the place until they reach cover or a corner. Then they can run away.

So, your game experience consists of always playing alone against Jedi?

In-fact they can run at me and zigzag which is just not fun to deal with even with experience. They never have to walk if they know what their doing. But I don't get that luxury. I have to walk at all times.

Follow their zig zag with your aim and shoot. Invalid argument. Again, tell me, what would be different with the new idea of Push? It would happen anyway. Your proposals of aiming the skill are totally supportive of your problem with current Push. Your scenarios would happen anyway. And then we would have to listen, how the need of aiming Push wasn't actually that much of a successful nerf and you want something further more changed.

I mostly agree, but then they use speed to close the gap making the long range push effective.
Or sith, use lighting to keep me suppressed until they are in close enough, assuming the lighting doesn't kill me.

Speed has a big vulnerability and that's saber off.

Again I am not a fan of that cone thing at all, charge skill, whatever. My idea was just aiming the skill just for knockdown to occur. Not touching the fact you can push multiple explosives away. I never mentioned that or said that should be changed I only said aim the skill on the person if you want knock down.

You basically always talk about 1v1 scenario, in which you will always get beaten anyway (seeing how you keep claiming that you always die). Even with your idea of aimed Push. That's why us, who play saber too, look at it from 1 saber vs multiple gunners point of view, because that's where the real nerf lies now. Even with current Push 3, saberist is taking a huge risk of getting rekt, using it against two gunners. I don't want to talk about, what would happen against even more gunners, it's so obvious.

Someguy also brought up a good point how people adapt. Gunners have always been getting hit with a nerf bat and tweaked. Yet we adapted. If jedi players can't adapt when their class gets modified, that tells me they were using crutches and have to relearn the game.

I can adapt, but I think, we will see another thread likes this again, if these changes are made.

Anway, if you cba to reply, you don't have to, because I will not quote you or answer you further. When you get over the hate for certain class, there might be reasonable discussion then.

 

[SomeGuy]

I am completely dumbfounded you think otherwise, even I rape saberists with clone and I am a very average player.
CR2, Blob 3, Reinf, Ammo 2, Armor 2, Pistol 2 and you are in for a big fuck up.

Hahaha! You seem to misunderstand the word invaluable.

Full Definition of invaluable

1. : valuable beyond estimation : priceless <providing invaluable assistance>
   

 

[Starushka]

Push is a tool in gunner vs saberist match-up, just like poison or blob. You can't separate them.

The balance between lightsaber vs gun is messed up right now though. In most cases saberist would win 1 vs 1 against any gunner (unless direct counter like wookie, cortoSBD or Dash Rendar). Because of not direct buffs in recent builds. And this will be adressed next patch.

 

[Phelps]

Hahaha! You seem to misunderstand the word invaluable.

Full Definition of invaluable

1. : valuable beyond estimation : priceless <providing invaluable assistance>

No, I did not, because I did not quote anything concerning word "invaluable".
Anyway, I wouldn't call Clones overpowered as Puppytine, but clones are by far my most favourite gunner class on Reb team.

 

[SomeGuy]

Push is a tool in gunner vs saberist match-up, just like poison or blob. You can't separate them.

The balance between lightsaber vs gun is messed up right now though. In most cases saberist would win 1 vs 1 against any gunner (unless direct counter like wookie, cortoSBD or Dash Rendar). Because of not direct buffs in recent builds. And this will be adressed next patch.

Thank you, that's all I need.

 

[SomeGuy]

No, I did not, because I did not quote anything concerning word "invaluable".
Anyway, I wouldn't call Clones overpowered as Puppytine, but clones are by far my most favourite gunner class on Reb team.

I said blobs are invaluable, Puppytine said they were overpowered, I laughed at that, and you thought for some reason I said they were useless. I figured you would have read the posts.

 

[Phelps]

I said blobs are invaluable, Puppytine said they were overpowered, I laughed at that, and you thought for some reason I said they were useless. I figured you would have read the posts.

Can't keep up with everything here, because there is also too much crap unrelated to topic, but yeah, sorry, my bad.

Anyway, I am closing this for myself, heard many good arguments from both sides - if Push gets changed, I don't mind. I offered counter arguments from my point of view and my belief. I will adapt, that's the thing.

But will (I won't name) some individuals adapt to the fact, they will eventually get owned anyway? That's the real question here. Because everything discussed here, almost everything, is not Push related problem.

Cheers.

 

[Alteran]

Push is a tool in gunner vs saberist match-up, just like poison or blob. You can't separate them.

The balance between lightsaber vs gun is messed up right now though. In most cases saberist would win 1 vs 1 against any gunner (unless direct counter like wookie, cortoSBD or Dash Rendar). Because of not direct buffs in recent builds. And this will be adressed next patch.

Still don't agree with this, all the time I see good soldiers and commanders dancing around jedi effortlessly, and quickly killing them, most often with primary fire ez-11 at close range. I know you said "In most cases" but I see more good soldiers than bad ones these days.

But since you mentioned next patch balance gunner vs jedi. can I ask, are mandos getting any love? of all the classes in mb2 mando is the worst vs jedi by far, which is just odd to me.

 

[Starushka]

Yes

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

Fuck you BigTeef for hating space wizards with swords.

Okay, buy me dinner first.

I said blobs are invaluable, Puppytine said they were overpowered, I laughed at that, and you thought for some reason I said they were useless. I figured you would have read the posts.

Blobs of anything is overpowered, clones are not the only culprit. Atleast you can shoot back at clones and see their health dissipate. Saber blobs you need explosives, a religion, and a firing squad. And knowing the current games, chances are your whole team is most likely sith. So firing squad is out the window unless playing with friends.

If anyone learned anything from that event the officials servers are running is that class spam period is not fun to fight against at all. Some are worse than others. Example being fighting a team of 7 wookies that are using the quality build and not just rage is just hard. Just really hard.

an I ask, are mandos getting any love? of all the classes in mb2 mando is the worst vs jedi by far, which is just odd to me.

Whhhhaaaaaaaatt?
Mando is by far my favorite class when it comes to jedi spam. The jetpack eliminates the need for me to use the shift key, and I can get that speed I want without suffering the consequences of push. If you get the jetpack down right you can actually go in a complete circle around the jedi while shooting him. Not metaphorically, I mean you can fly actual circles and shoot at them and there isn't anything they can do without gunner support.

They are considered under powered with all that movement potential and speed?