I haven't played MBII consistently for 3 years, here's why.

[SeV]

Just remove all styles except for yellow and revert dueling back to 1.4.2 where semi pb was actually a thing and meant that you didn't have to run after you finish your combo

Semi-PB only in returns blocking maybe 50-80% damage is fine by me. I think stassin suggested 50 which is fine since its already a tradeoff. You should be better off dodging instead of being lazy. But tempest wants that window open to be hit in so he is reluctant to introduce it. No Semi-PB when not holding blcok, or running etc, only in returns after swings and even then have it absorb only like 50% maybe. I think that'd be a nice thing to have aswell, but I doubt tempest thinks so. I really like the fact that you can continue to use PB aim during/after swings to get an extra little bit of advantage. It also won't be a big problem if we don't have ACM and semi-PB doesn't block 100% dmg, so implementing this is fine by me.

And this is bad because?

Almost all fighting games give a life bar. It's a game way of indicating fatigue. Promotes reckless play from the leading player, prompts defensive play from the defender. Creates power dynamics that are visible. Improves game readability.

I consider these beneficial implications.

In the stagger patch, for example, you were able to tell exactly when someone was below 50 percent BP, because all bodyhits staggered. The big, huge, enormously biggly big problem with that sort of thing is that you can't fake low BP and play any sort of mindgames. The same mindgame can also be played in reverse, where you're low BP but you pretend to be high bp and play confidently, or you are high bp but play very defensively to bait the opponent. All of these subtle nuances vanish immediately if you are able to know the precise amount of BP your opponent has, or even approximate. Imagine if there was a floating BP bar next to enemies that told you their BP, that would be huge and it would have very bad effects on dueling.

 

[AaronAaron]

Semi-PB only in returns blocking maybe 50-80% damage is fine by me. I think stassin suggested 50 which is fine since its already a tradeoff. You should be better off dodging instead of being lazy. But tempest wants that window open to be hit in so he is reluctant to introduce it. No Semi-PB when not holding blcok, or running etc, only in returns after swings and even then have it absorb only like 50% maybe. I think that'd be a nice thing to have aswell, but I doubt tempest thinks so.

Yep, 100 percent agree with that.

 

[noel]

I wonder what made you so salty , i really didn't mean to offend with this newb crap, c'mon get off your high horse, we are all newbs herec:
also i was talking about running hits make less damage, not hitting slowing me down when i run, i think there is a good solution or punishment already in case if a bodyhit during run accours, it makes even more damage to me when i get hit while i run
It also slowes me down but that can likely be only be me ;D

im not salty dw, i'm just saying you're kind of saying 'you cant hit ppl who run so you shouldn't have an opinion'

i dont think that ss'ing shouldn't be a viable option it just needs nerfing because dodging is so much more effective atm

you should be rewarded for dodging whilst still walking, because at least then you're factoring in where the swing is coming from, your range in comparison to the opponent etc. compared to how easy it is to run in and out because of swing speeds and the speed you can run at

 

[SeV]

im not salty dw, i'm just saying you're kind of saying 'you cant hit ppl who run so you shouldn't have an opinion'

i dont think that ss'ing shouldn't be a viable option it just needs nerfing because dodging is so much more effective atm

you should be rewarded for dodging whilst still walking, because at least then you're factoring in where the swing is coming from, your range in comparison to the opponent etc. compared to how easy it is to run in and out because of swing speeds and the speed you can run at

I think you get alot of benefits from shadowswinging, but one of the major ones is that you distance yourself from the opponent, making defense easier, as the further away you are, the better you can defend. I just feel like it should be more like a tactical retreat option, not a viable offensive strategy as it currently is. The strongest offense is to shadowswing and parry spam so you get more ACM than the opponent. Without ACM this does tone down the usefulness of shadowswinging but it is still very good in systems where BP matters more, given how you don't take damage if you aren't hit and hitting the opponent more than you get hit = eventual win. This coupled with the force focus change to make outright running alot harder, adds a nice amount of skill to defensively retreating, which used to be alot harder than it is now. (Due to nudge and BP regen and old PB vs new PB).

So adding a nerf on top of this to runhits may seem excessive to you, but I think it's great because it forces you to choose whether you want to retreat fully or slow down slightly but take less damage in a parry exchange. It enables skilled players to still retreat effectively, but reduces the length of nub flailing on low BP whilst running and making it easier to deal with those people. It is essentially just another way to introduce more skill to the game and differentiate between duelists.



By the way, I want to tell all you guys something about shadowswings that I think is kind of funny. In b16-b17 around 2006-2007 you could shadow the opponents swing, think of perfect parries just the opposite swing like Opponent does A, you do D. Or Opponent does SD you do WA. This sometimes resulted in insta death through all blocking, if my memory is correct, and people (agent/padapro) called this shadowswinging.

Years later in 2009 I wrote a guide and mentioned shadowswinging in it, but people misunderstood me slightly and started using shadowswinging as meaning a swin+dodge away to avoid getting hit, because I had described that tactic in the guide aswell.

I am not 100% sure on all the facts, but this is what is in my memory, so whenever I hear shadowswinging I always chuckle a little bit. But it's a fine term to describe what it describes so I'm not saying it should be changed. I just thought you might find this a bit interesting

 

[noel]

I think you get alot of benefits from shadowswinging, but one of the major ones is that you distance yourself from the opponent, making defense easier, as the further away you are, the better you can defend. I just feel like it should be more like a tactical retreat option, not a viable offensive strategy as it currently is. The strongest offense is to shadowswing and parry spam so you get more ACM than the opponent. Without ACM this does tone down the usefulness of shadowswinging but it is still very good in systems where BP matters more, given how you don't take damage if you aren't hit and hitting the opponent more than you get hit = eventual win. This coupled with the force focus change to make outright running alot harder, adds a nice amount of skill to defensively retreating, which used to be alot harder than it is now. (Due to nudge and BP regen and old PB vs new PB).

So adding a nerf on top of this to runhits may seem excessive to you, but I think it's great because it forces you to choose whether you want to retreat fully or slow down slightly but take less damage in a parry exchange. It enables skilled players to still retreat effectively, but reduces the length of nub flailing on low BP whilst running and making it easier to deal with those people. It is essentially just another way to introduce more skill to the game and differentiate between duelists.



By the way, I want to tell all you guys something about shadowswings that I think is kind of funny. In b16-b17 around 2006-2007 you could shadow the opponents swing, think of perfect parries just the opposite swing like Opponent does A, you do D. Or Opponent does SD you do WA. This sometimes resulted in insta death through all blocking, if my memory is correct, and people (agent/padapro) called this shadowswinging.

Years later in 2009 I wrote a guide and mentioned shadowswinging in it, but people misunderstood me slightly and started using shadowswinging as meaning a swin+dodge away to avoid getting hit, because I had described that tactic in the guide aswell.

I am not 100% sure on all the facts, but this is what is in my memory, so whenever I hear shadowswinging I always chuckle a little bit. But it's a fine term to describe what it describes so I'm not saying it should be changed. I just thought you might find this a bit interesting

honestly you can nerf it even more imo lmao

 

[Stassin]

I'd much prefer having semi-PB not only in returns but also in starts and while running. Only having it in returns strictly addresses that frustrating scenario of getting hit right after you finish your combo. Having it in starts and running aswell encourages offense which is needed imo with the current camera-based PB, as you always put yourself at a disadvantage when attacking first. Which is why abusing hit & run (or maybe "shadowswinging", whatever that means) is so effective and overused in current builds, because not only does it:

1) give you a better defensive position when you actually want to receive the attack and PB (since you are further away from the attacker so it's easier to see the attack coming to PB), or maybe even MBlock (which overly encourages the attacker to swingblock these kinds of attacks), but also
2) it also gives you very easily the possibility to dodge the attack then go for an interrupt OR even go for an interrupt before the guy who rushes you even starts attacking first, which is much easier to do for you than it is for him to attack, since he is the one rushing towards you.

Now i'm not saying these tactics aren't "balanced", because at some point people learn to counteract it by baiting the baits and integrating the same tactics while managing to still kinda be on the offensive. And all of this complex gameplay should remain. However, i strongly believe it would be better to tone down the sheer strength of these tactics when they succeed, because they make straightforward offense far too unforgiving and frustrating. Semi-PB in starts and running accomplishes this by offering you some leeway, provided that you still aim correctly, so that getting interrupted when you go on the offensive (for which you have no choice but to run towards the enemy if you want to reach him) becomes less scary and thus so that offense in general is less discouraged. Of course, scoring these interrupts should still be rewarded and they would be with semi-PB blocking only 50% dmg (with no ACM gains either), since such interrupts already give you plenty of timing advantage and momentum in the fight on top of sheer damage (and you'd still get them with full dmg whenever they aren't semi-PBed, such as vs weaker opponents).

Additionally, in order to further nerf the power of low or 0 BP parry spam, instead of adding new mechanics that would mess with movement and such, i would simply extend the current mechanic that allows an attacker to disarm a defender who has too low BP to block the attack if their saber gets hit, to parries. With parry damage in, if someone has too low BP to withstand it they should get disarmed if their saber is hit, and they should get slashed to death if their body is hit during the parry. After all, this was how it worked pre-v1.1 and that's mainly why 0 BP spam wasn't as strong as now, because it was really risky (you'd get slashed to death through swing exchanges if you had too low BP, because full parries would only occur when sabers touched which wasn't all the time - often you'd get mutual bodyhits, which would cause death if too low BP).


TLDR: reinstate semi-PB with only 50% dmg in starts, returns and while running, it is necessary in order to encourage offense with the new camera-based PB. Also make parries with too low BP cause disarms and/or death to further address the issue of 0BP spam (which is already addressed by preventing comboing when too low BP, but frankly that has proven not to be enough as it doesn't give enough feeling of 0BP spam being very risky).

With those i don't believe there is a need to buff force focus against low BP targets or anything else.

 

[SeV]

I'd much prefer having semi-PB not only in returns but also in starts and while running. Only having it in returns strictly addresses that frustrating scenario of getting hit right after you finish your combo. Having it in starts and running aswell encourages offense which is needed imo with the current camera-based PB, as you always put yourself at a disadvantage when attacking first. Which is why abusing hit & run (or maybe "shadowswinging", whatever that means) is so effective and overused in current builds, because not only does it:

1) give you a better defensive position when you actually want to receive the attack and PB (since you are further away from the attacker so it's easier to see the attack coming to PB), or maybe even MBlock (which overly encourages the attacker to swingblock these kinds of attacks), but also
2) it also gives you very easily the possibility to dodge the attack then go for an interrupt OR even go for an interrupt before the guy who rushes you even starts attacking first, which is much easier to do for you than it is for him to attack, since he is the one rushing towards you.

Now i'm not saying these tactics aren't "balanced", because at some point people learn to counteract it by baiting the baits and integrating the same tactics while managing to still kinda be on the offensive. And all of this complex gameplay should remain. However, i strongly believe it would be better to tone down the sheer strength of these tactics when they succeed, because they make straightforward offense far too unforgiving and frustrating. Semi-PB in starts and running accomplishes this by offering you some leeway, provided that you still aim correctly, so that getting interrupted when you go on the offensive (for which you have no choice but to run towards the enemy if you want to reach him) becomes less scary and thus so that offense in general is less discouraged. Of course, scoring these interrupts should still be rewarded and they would be with semi-PB blocking only 50% dmg (with no ACM gains either), since such interrupts already give you plenty of timing advantage and momentum in the fight on top of sheer damage (and you'd still get them with full dmg whenever they aren't semi-PBed, such as vs weaker opponents).

Additionally, in order to further nerf the power of low or 0 BP parry spam, instead of adding new mechanics that would mess with movement and such, i would simply extend the current mechanic that allows an attacker to disarm a defender who has too low BP to block the attack if their saber gets hit, to parries. With parry damage in, if someone has too low BP to withstand it they should get disarmed if their saber is hit, and they should get slashed to death if their body is hit during the parry. After all, this was how it worked pre-v1.1 and that's mainly why 0 BP spam wasn't as strong as now, because it was really risky (you'd get slashed to death through swing exchanges if you had too low BP, because full parries would only occur when sabers touched which wasn't all the time - often you'd get mutual bodyhits, which would cause death if too low BP).


TLDR: reinstate semi-PB with only 50% dmg in starts, returns and while running, it is necessary in order to encourage offense with the new camera-based PB. Also make parries with too low BP cause disarms and/or death to further address the issue of 0BP spam (which is already addressed by preventing comboing when too low BP, but frankly that has proven not to be enough as it doesn't give enough feeling of 0BP spam being very risky).

With those i don't believe there is a need to buff force focus against low BP targets or anything else.

Alright, you've convinced me about starts, but I am still sceptical about running Semi-PBS. They mostly occured accidentally when they were a thing, and it also assisted someone running away by giving them a random Semi PB even when they weren't defending. I want Semi-PB to be a deliberate thing in that it is based on blocking. So only active when you hold block, and that would translate to only when u are swingblocking. I think that is the best distinction. So whenever you are swingblocking you can semi-PB, whether that is in a return or a start.

My thought process on Semi-PB right now is that it actually increases the skill level slightly, I just want it to be deliberate and not on running without holding block, so I think tying it to swingblock makes the most sense.

I don't find 0 BP parry spam too much of a problem, and disarms can feel iffy. Still, if we can polish it to where it's only happening on 0 bp then we gud, I don't mind, but I would rather avoid any iffyness if possible. The alternative could be ye olde stagger, since you are 0 BP a stagger will be almost the same as a disarm, yet probably less finnicky. I have horror memories of beta tests where you got randomly disarmed even when u were holding block and standing still

Either option works, but 0 BP parrying isn't a big problem at all with bodyhit % based parries and low BP parrying will favour the higher BP guy anyway, even without slower regen on low BP as I suggested, but if there is slower regen on say below 33% BP then it certainly favours the higher BP guy and you can't just cheese your defense lazily.

The FF buff I am suggesting should not be based on BP or anything, just a flat 0.5 sec for FB 1-2 and 1 sec for FB 3, when back/side is turned, aka u aren't aiming at the opponent aka you are strafing away fast/running. I'd still want that in because I think it is kind of interesting. I want to see how that plays, you know? Alot of ppl won't get pull in open so it is less of an issue there, and if they do get pull they get an extra thing to play around with and the opponents always have to be wary. Push is extremely high utility in open, but pull isn't. If pull got this on jedi/sith it would instantly become a more popular choice and there would be a dynamic between Push for vs gunners and pull for when you are vs alot of jedi/sith. And only skilled players would do this and avoid this mostly. I think it would lead to interesting things in gameplay.

 

[MuscBodypillow]

Alot of ppl won't get pull in open so it is less of an issue there, and if they do get pull they get an extra thing to play around with and the opponents always have to be wary. Push is extremely high utility in open, but pull isn't. If pull got this on jedi/sith it would instantly become a more popular choice and there would be a dynamic between Push for vs gunners and pull for when you are vs alot of jedi/sith. And only skilled players would do this and avoid this mostly. I think it would lead to interesting things in gameplay.

But then the one that gets pulled could use the vulnerability window to take you out, I'm not saying it's a bad thing but it might be more dangerous than anything. I'm not saying it's a bad idea but it would be a double edged sword, unless I'm missing something here...

 

[Stassin]

Alright, you've convinced me about starts, but I am still sceptical about running Semi-PBS. They mostly occured accidentally when they were a thing, and it also assisted someone running away by giving them a random Semi PB even when they weren't defending. I want Semi-PB to be a deliberate thing in that it is based on blocking. So only active when you hold block, and that would translate to only when u are swingblocking. I think that is the best distinction. So whenever you are swingblocking you can semi-PB, whether that is in a return or a start.

My thought process on Semi-PB right now is that it actually increases the skill level slightly, I just want it to be deliberate and not on running without holding block, so I think tying it to swingblock makes the most sense.

I don't find 0 BP parry spam too much of a problem, and disarms can feel iffy. Still, if we can polish it to where it's only happening on 0 bp then we gud, I don't mind, but I would rather avoid any iffyness if possible. The alternative could be ye olde stagger, since you are 0 BP a stagger will be almost the same as a disarm, yet probably less finnicky. I have horror memories of beta tests where you got randomly disarmed even when u were holding block and standing still

Either option works, but 0 BP parrying isn't a big problem at all with bodyhit % based parries and low BP parrying will favour the higher BP guy anyway, even without slower regen on low BP as I suggested, but if there is slower regen on say below 33% BP then it certainly favours the higher BP guy and you can't just cheese your defense lazily.

The FF buff I am suggesting should not be based on BP or anything, just a flat 0.5 sec for FB 1-2 and 1 sec for FB 3, when back/side is turned, aka u aren't aiming at the opponent aka you are strafing away fast/running. I'd still want that in because I think it is kind of interesting. I want to see how that plays, you know? Alot of ppl won't get pull in open so it is less of an issue there, and if they do get pull they get an extra thing to play around with and the opponents always have to be wary. Push is extremely high utility in open, but pull isn't. If pull got this on jedi/sith it would instantly become a more popular choice and there would be a dynamic between Push for vs gunners and pull for when you are vs alot of jedi/sith. And only skilled players would do this and avoid this mostly. I think it would lead to interesting things in gameplay.

So if i understand correctly you mean that someone's force focus should be stronger when the target isn't looking at him (i.e. also force focusing), in general in any situation. In that case i agree it makes total sense, although it would make things harder in 1vX open mode (which should be ok as it would further discourage excessive running from the player who's alone, prompting him to instead gain the advantage in the BP battle).

On the other hand semi-PB should be on running because it helps 1vX for the more skilled player, and more importantly for the scenario of offense vs hit & run it helps the guy attacking alot because while swingblocking is nice, you very often have no choice but to run in order to reach your target. Yes good duelists will see the enemy going for an interrupt and press block in time (although more average players won't), but sometimes you can't afford to do that if you ever want to reach your target when they are really running alot (in those cases you have to tank their interrupt and instantly go running after them, otherwise they'll just always stay barely out of reach). Also, a semi-PB with swingblocking would still drain less BP than a semi-PB while running, as the bodyhit dmg calculated then would be higher and semi-PB would just be a flat 50% of it (using the same calculations).

More generally semi-PB while running will reward the more skilled players and will be much harder to use when running away than when chasing, since in order to run away you have to sidestep so that you can still see the guy chasing you, so it's harder or even impossible to aim properly (although i do agree that random semi-PBs did noticeably occur in these kinds of scenarios - but again if they don't block 100% damage they won't save the low BP running guy anymore). In any case semi-PBs with 50% dmg including while running would be particularly good i believe in a system with overall very high drains and low regen, which we should go back to, because then they would more significantly reward the better players in all situations as they'd have more tools to mitigate dmg (such as when running 1vX against weaker players).

 

[SeV]

So if i understand correctly you mean that someone's force focus should be stronger when the target isn't looking at him (i.e. also force focusing), in general in any situation. In that case i agree it makes total sense, although it would make things harder in 1vX open mode (which should be ok as it would further discourage excessive running from the player who's alone, prompting him to instead gain the advantage in the BP battle).

On the other hand semi-PB should be on running because it helps 1vX for the more skilled player, and more importantly for the scenario of offense vs hit & run it helps the guy attacking alot because while swingblocking is nice, you very often have no choice but to run in order to reach your target. Yes good duelists will see the enemy going for an interrupt and press block in time (although more average players won't), but sometimes you can't afford to do that if you ever want to reach your target when they are really running alot (in those cases you have to tank their interrupt and instantly go running after them, otherwise they'll just always stay barely out of reach). Also, a semi-PB with swingblocking would still drain less BP than a semi-PB while running, as the bodyhit dmg calculated then would be higher and semi-PB would just be a flat 50% of it (using the same calculations).

More generally semi-PB while running will reward the more skilled players and will be much harder to use when running away than when chasing, since in order to run away you have to sidestep so that you can still see the guy chasing you, so it's harder or even impossible to aim properly (although i do agree that random semi-PBs did noticeably occur in these kinds of scenarios - but again if they don't block 100% damage they won't save the low BP running guy anymore). In any case semi-PBs with 50% dmg including while running would be particularly good i believe in a system with overall very high drains and low regen, which we should go back to, because then they would more significantly reward the better players in all situations as they'd have more tools to mitigate dmg (such as when running 1vX against weaker players).

Yeah I guess the problem was that semi-PB was set to block all damage. I can agree with your reasoning here I guess. The force focus idea would make 1vx slightly more challenging, but not by much since if you can do 1vx you are likely skilled enough to know the quick runburst + tap block strategy and in this case it would just be strafing to put distance and then facing again for PB/parry exchanges. I think it is over all a very interesting thing to add more skill to the game esp in open mode.

 

[hleV]

I like how y'all talk about skill when this PB (and now-gone semi-PB) happen by accident way too often.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

- Removal of flinch and restoration of knockback. Already done doing this.

Flinch is a perfectly fine mechanic, it's just not balanced properly. Perhaps if you had listened to me about how you can use Flinch to make saber vs gunner take skill, then you'd realize this. But I suppose we're all just going to be unimaginative.

- Removal of any "FP debuff"-esque mechanics. Already done doing this.

Fine.

- No more super tank blocking saberists (goes with the above). Already done with this. Simplified it to a baseline of 25% reduction in FP damage while blocking. No further increase to those who are running. See one of my other posts elsewhere that explains all of the FP drain math.

I mean, I already came up with a blocking mechanic with GrandCoderJohn that solved all of this, and was pretty fun to use.

- Putting the saber system back into a state similar to how it was prior/up to 1.3 (much simpler, no/non-universal ACM stuff, no perks; Just differing animations, attack/defense ratings). Currently working on this.

Oh goody, let's just make every style a slower/faster version of Yellow. God forbid we have variety and differing playstyles. Let bring back normal block, and remove PB, and every other aspect of progress made since the day you started this game.

I think that it's better balanced by a lower FP cost with a small BP cost (since it is basically a hyper-attack). This also lets it be balanced in cases such as someone spamming stabs with Duals when they're at low-0 BP and making it extremely difficult or impossible to finish them off.

That's fine, as long as it's not too much BP, and too little FP.

Just for reference, staggers and flinches are exactly the same thing (though most might think of flinching as where it just simply stops the swing like with how it works when you get shot while swingblocking). Less staggers of any sort = better. They're extremely intrusive and generally obnoxious to be on the receiving end of. Already tried Purple stab being back and it was horrible/a good reminder for why it got removed. Specials in beta are good examples of how they should be (providing some protection and decent damage as a baseline without being blenders).

Working on it!

Flinch is different from stagger in the sense that it is a MECHANIC made around gunners. Yes, it is, in effect, the same thing.

Everything dangerous is intrusive and obnoxious to be on the receiving end of. Staggers are demonstrably fine if used in moderation, and I grow tired of your constant fear of effective mechanics just because you seem to lack the imagination to use them properly. Purple Stab just needs tweaking, and it's on the wrong style. I tested it, and it was mostly fine, it simply had problems with the collision/startup.

"Specials in beta are good examples of how they should be (providing some protection and decent damage as a baseline without being blenders)." You mean how they are in public?

The only bad thing that happened to grip was that it became a lot less cheese. It's actually stronger aside from that (though the timing on it could use tweaking, which is something I'm going to be looking at for my indepth run-through of tweaks to powers). Lightning is still cheese and needs a better baseline but in the long run will actually be stronger/more useful.

Grip is not stronger, the only purpose to using grip is the cheese. Same with lightning. They're terrible and gimmicky force powers, and I've already produced a mile long suggestion of how to fix them.

 

[noel]

Flinch is a perfectly fine mechanic, it's just not balanced properly. Perhaps if you had listened to me about how you can use Flinch to make saber vs gunner take skill, then you'd realize this. But I suppose we're all just going to be unimaginative.



Fine.



I mean, I already came up with a blocking mechanic with GrandCoderJohn that solved all of this, and was pretty fun to use.



Oh goody, let's just make every style a slower/faster version of Yellow. God forbid we have variety and differing playstyles. Let bring back normal block, and remove PB, and every other aspect of progress made since the day you started this game.



That's fine, as long as it's not too much BP, and too little FP.



Flinch is different from stagger in the sense that it is a MECHANIC made around gunners. Yes, it is, in effect, the same thing.

Everything dangerous is intrusive and obnoxious to be on the receiving end of. Staggers are demonstrably fine if used in moderation, and I grow tired of your constant fear of effective mechanics just because you seem to lack the imagination to use them properly. Purple Stab just needs tweaking, and it's on the wrong style. I tested it, and it was mostly fine, it simply had problems with the collision/startup.

"Specials in beta are good examples of how they should be (providing some protection and decent damage as a baseline without being blenders)." You mean how they are in public?



Grip is not stronger, the only purpose to using grip is the cheese. Same with lightning. They're terrible and gimmicky force powers, and I've already produced a mile long suggestion of how to fix them.

y u heff to be mad it only a game

 

[SomeGuy]

- Removal of flinch and restoration of knockback. Already done doing this.

Does this only apply to saberists or will it also be back on against other classes as well? Will headshots still do extra knock back?

- No more super tank blocking saberists (goes with the above). Already done with this. Simplified it to a baseline of 25% reduction in FP damage while blocking. No further increase to those who are running. See one of my other posts elsewhere that explains all of the FP drain math.

Do I understand this correctly, that if say a shot takes 8 FP damage regular that when blocking it will be 6 damage instead, and running will be the normal 8? Is this in IDR?

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

y u heff to be mad it only a game

I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed. I expect more, and get less.

No matter how much reason I throw at some people, they just do whatever they want anyway.

 

[Lindsey]

I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed. I expect more, and get less.

No matter how much reason I throw at some people, they just do whatever they want anyway.

Welcome to Politics 2018

 

[Luna]

Welcome to Politics

Fixed

 

[noel]

I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed. I expect more, and get less.

No matter how much reason I throw at some people, they just do whatever they want anyway.

most people agree with sev as this post has shown, unfortunately for you tempest kind of has to follow the majority's opinion and sev has pretty much said what everyone was thinking

 

[Tempest]

Flinch is a perfectly fine mechanic, it's just not balanced properly. Perhaps if you had listened to me about how you can use Flinch to make saber vs gunner take skill, then you'd realize this. But I suppose we're all just going to be unimaginative.

I already responded about flinch to hleV. Also (as for your suggestion(s), it's quite likely just going to end up in the same scenario as public except less consistent (putting heavy emphasis on Deflect but making there be no reason to shoot them while they're able to deflect). If we put the system of blocking vs gun fire that you are mentioning below, then it would just be rare moments of being able to deflect shots anyway (because you wouldn't even have time to stop and deflect most shots anyway before being unable to block incoming blaster fire vs more than one opponent or even just one with a high RoF weapon).

I mean, I already came up with a blocking mechanic with GrandCoderJohn that solved all of this, and was pretty fun to use.

I didn't find it fun.

"Specials in beta are good examples of how they should be (providing some protection and decent damage as a baseline without being blenders)." You mean how they are in public?

In public, they are literally just there to prevent you from taking damage (unless you already have a chunk of ACM and land a YDFA/RDFA/catch someone running with Duals/Staff crouch katas). They do literally nothing else. They do basically 0 damage and are just providing invincibility to damage. They're far less useful than in beta (where they still provide defense as well as actually being able to be used offensively at all points).

 

[Manyo]

Took me several attempts to read all of it but i think i got it now =)

Open:
I don't think the wook - saberist comparison fits. People run away from them because they can, unlike playing vs saberists. And they are only strong when you are surprised or they defend a door. Saberists on the other hand can control the fight with their force powers, using the environment (jump) and regenerating fp behind cover.
You absolutely should focus the balancing on short-mid range fights because MB2 maps aren't open fields. When flinch was introduced i thought it would give gunners a long needed mechanic to have something versus rushing saberists from short range cover, but it doesn't seem to work out that way.

• Flinch is unreliable, and i wouldn't mind removing it and getting higher force drains as proposed and maybe add something else like knockbacks.

Lightning and swingblock (when it works) just sidestep flinch so it doesn't make sense to have it as a core balance mechanic.

I'm not sure if your opening was meant that way, but

• Saberists have been nerfed regulary since 10 years isn't a valid argument. 'I don't have an answer playing versus x. x should be nerfed' is.

Duel:
Haven't really been into duelling since b18 so I guess that means i dislike the current system even more than you, so i wouldn't mind any changes proposed at all especially removing ACM (i do think there needs to be a minor mechanic to stop saberists from wasting time in open mode by running away. ACM isn't a good one, though)

• ACM feels like a role playing mechanic, it feels like farming in every fight and i much rather have fights where mistakes and bad timing are much more punished than removing one point from your ACM.
• Perfect Blocking doesn't feel reliable and intuitive enough to be a core mechanic.

I guess the duelling community agrees on Perfect Blocking beeing a great mechanic, i don't.
If it would work like in For Honor where you block in one direction and it always works i would like it, too. But it depending on distance and on how the enemy moves makes it feel unreliable. When i watch good saberists, the majority of PB's i see are easy to recognize opening moves and then anticipating the most used direction and just keeping the camera there. Feels like only 10 percent of all other attacks get PB'd.

Drama:
Why include a personal attack, however harmless it might be, in an otherwise good post if you say you don't want this thread to turn into drama. Just focus your words on the game itself.