I haven't played MBII consistently for 3 years, here's why.

[{Δ} Achilles]

I already responded about flinch to hleV. Also (as for your suggestion(s), it's quite likely just going to end up in the same scenario as public except less consistent (putting heavy emphasis on Deflect but making there be no reason to shoot them while they're able to deflect). If we put the system of blocking vs gun fire that you are mentioning below, then it would just be rare moments of being able to deflect shots anyway (because you wouldn't even have time to stop and deflect most shots anyway before being unable to block incoming blaster fire vs more than one opponent or even just one with a high RoF weapon).

Then you didn't listen to my proposed changes carefully, because those would not be issues in my system. The mechanic I had in mind was centered around *baiting* shots from a gunner in order to deflect, and a Jedi/Sith would not be invulnerable to projectiles either.

I wanted to erase the inconsistency of Gunner vs Jedi and Gunner vs Gunner with regards to luck. No one in this entire game will ever be able to land more than 50% of their shots against a strafing opponent. It is *guessing*, or 'reading' if you prefer. I want an actual well-thought out mechanic for Gunner vs Jedi that eliminates guesswork, and allows for prediction/raw skill to take hold. (And I've already thought of it)

Aren't you tired of shooting at some crappy Jedi that is just running side to side, and missing a good portion of your shots. Hitting him like 4 times, only for him to get that one lucky swing that you couldn't flinch and kills you?

Aren't you tired of moving around a corner, seeing nothing, only to get pushed down by a Jedi hiding on the ceiling and being insta-killed?

Aren't you tired of being randomly pulled/pushed for the ONE nanosecond that you weren't walking, just because the opponent was lucky with an instant power?

Aren't you tired of fighting a gunner as a Jedi who just sprays wildly at you, and he misses 90% of his shots but manages to flinch you every time you finally decide to swing?

That isn't a problem of flinch, that is a problem of the shooting/projectile mechanics, and the lack of an actual Jedi vs Gunner mechanic proper.

Stop attacking good ideas like perks or flinch when they're just not fully realized, and the real problems are things everyone is either too ignorant to see, or too lazy to address.

I didn't find it fun.

Then you should have said so, because I don't recall you saying anything about it otherwise. Feedback is very important for things, if you had a problem, such a problem can be fixed through tweaking. I feel like you only half listen to my suggestions, and then tell me they wouldn't work because you ignored the other half that makes them work.

In public, they are literally just there to prevent you from taking damage (unless you already have a chunk of ACM and land a YDFA/RDFA/catch someone running with Duals/Staff crouch katas). They do literally nothing else. They do basically 0 damage and are just providing invincibility to damage. They're far less useful than in beta (where they still provide defense as well as actually being able to be used offensively at all points).

They should not be used offensively at all points. A YDFA is incredibly strong in public, virtually a match-winner if you land it, but it also isn't something you can just throw out. It is highly punishable if you just throw it out, therefore you only use it against people that leave themselves open for it via rolling/kataing/DFAing themselves. It's a high risk/high reward special. The butterflies are explicitly used for defense, because they are too slow to catch a competent player at a distance, and too fast to be balanced with damage up close. The Katas are used to counter people that jump kick against you, any more damage and they become cancerous to fight against, just like I tested with Purple/Dual katas in your version where I could just gimmick somebody with them.

 

[SeV]

I'm not sure if your opening was meant that way, but

• Saberists have been nerfed regulary since 10 years isn't a valid argument. 'I don't have an answer playing versus x. x should be nerfed' is.

I meant what I wrote, don't put words in my mouth. Go back and read it again if you're having trouble, I think my words are fairly clear.

Duel:
Haven't really been into duelling since b18 so I guess that means i dislike the current system even more than you, so i wouldn't mind any changes proposed at all especially removing ACM (i do think there needs to be a minor mechanic to stop saberists from wasting time in open mode by running away. ACM isn't a good one, though)

• ACM feels like a role playing mechanic, it feels like farming in every fight and i much rather have fights where mistakes and bad timing are much more punished than removing one point from your ACM.
• Perfect Blocking doesn't feel reliable and intuitive enough to be a core mechanic.

I guess the duelling community agrees on Perfect Blocking beeing a great mechanic, i don't.
If it would work like in For Honor where you block in one direction and it always works i would like it, too. But it depending on distance and on how the enemy moves makes it feel unreliable. When i watch good saberists, the majority of PB's i see are easy to recognize opening moves and then anticipating the most used direction and just keeping the camera there. Feels like only 10 percent of all other attacks get PB'd.

Alot more than 10 percent can get PB'd and the consistency is the same as old PB, they just differ in their range of applicability. Old PB was easier to bypass with low aims and stuff, and harder to use to block with. But if you performed a PB correctly you'd get it every time. Same as now. I think aimed PB is fine actually, although it has its flaws, polishing it up and supplementing with NB is good enough I think. That is already a very solid base for a system and there are other things to worry about like ACM and numbers polishing.

Drama:
Why include a personal attack, however harmless it might be, in an otherwise good post if you say you don't want this thread to turn into drama. Just focus your words on the game itself.

"1.4.5: This is a buggy beta build, rushed out because of viserys and incomplete and shitty because of lack of testing and tempests mistakes." - SeV

The above isn't a personal attack. It is a statement of fact. Regardless of the circumstances that led vis to rush 1.4.5, she rushed it out. And regardless of circumstances, it is tempests bugs in that patch aswell. Facts don't care about feelings and this is not a personal attack. My PMs from Vis on discord on the other hand are good examples of personal attacks. She calls me crazy and attacks me viciously, but I am not going to share them here because we are putting the drama behind us.

Don't try to unnecessarily white knight or virtue signal to make yourself look better. Vis was the one who went berserk on me for saying this one sentence and I had 35 PMs from her on discord with a few nasty comments directed towards my person. Anything after that is me trying to explain to her what I mean, not personally attacking her. Please learn to read and stop trying to blame me for stating facts or what I perceive as facts. The truth can be offensive sometimes and annoying to hear but this is a thread for me to state truth as I see it and talk honestly about the problems in MB2 so we can fix it, not a thread about tiptoing and censoring myself. Feel free to self-censor all you want because your words might hurt someone, but Vis didn't feel inclined to censor her inflammatory remarks and I didn't take them to heart because I know she got fired up over my comment and said things in anger, so I don't blame her for anything.

I am just saying a fact, but I know that upsets some people. SO be it, be upset. But do not claim that I am personally attacking someone when I am not. Being able to take criticism is vital to improving yourself, and I give criticism only to ppl I like and ignore those I don't like.

EDIT: Focusing my words on only the game itself is what I've been doing for the past 5 years or so with very little success. Did you miss my huge threads of saber sugggestions? They used to appear a few times a year I think. Was alot on the old forums I believe.

Who develops the game and is responsible for how it becomes good shit? The devs obviously. I have been a beta tester for a long time and seen the process and how flawed it is. And even if you aren't a beta tester you can see that it's flawed by the fact that dueling gets worse the more time passes.

It is necessary to critique the dev process aswell to improve it. It's not a personal attack or a hurtful sinister assault to point out that something you like is flawed and can be improved, esp not when you do it out of love teh way parents do when they tell their children not to run with knives.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

Alot more than 10 percent can get PB'd and the consistency is the same as old PB, they just differ in their range of applicability. Old PB was easier to bypass with low aims and stuff, and harder to use to block with. But if you performed a PB correctly you'd get it every time. Same as now. I think aimed PB is fine actually, although it has its flaws, polishing it up and supplementing with NB is good enough I think. That is already a very solid base for a system and there are other things to worry about like ACM and numbers polishing.

Normal Block isn't necessary, or even wanted by the majority of the community. It's effectively just a redundant extra layer of defense that is more random than skillful. I have yet to see anyone use Normal Block, or even get past normal block, with any amount of remote consistency. It is an inconsistent and utterly pointless mechanic. I would rather refine the existing and *fully functional* mechanic that we already have.

 

[SeV]

Normal Block isn't necessary, or even wanted by the majority of the community. It's effectively just a redundant extra layer of defense that is more random than skillful. I have yet to see anyone use Normal Block, or even get past normal block, with any amount of remote consistency. It is an inconsistent and utterly pointless mechanic. I would rather refine the existing and *fully functional* mechanic that we already have.

I had a fairly easy time of getting around it in the beta where it blocked 50% and was pretty annoying. The one where staff was bugged. Your inability to deal with a mechanic should not exclude it from the game so you don't have to learn. And before you ask I was dueling competent players, which I am sure you also were, but unlike you I know how to deal with NB. You know nothing about it or how to use it or fight vs it apparently, because if you did you would know you could easily get past it esp with the yellow halfswings that were in that patch we tested.

I agree that 50% is too much. I am suggesting a value between 10-20%

But I mean, you gotta make up some argument for me as to why its bad to deal less damage when you clip the tip of the opponents lightsaber vs laying into them brutally with a full bodyhit close range. You can't just say 'NB is bad cuz I can't deal with it' and call it a day. Why shouldn't there be a difference in damage, even if that damage is fairly small and should be offset by a corresponding increase to AP to compensate for dueling length even at range?

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

I had a fairly easy time of getting around it in the beta where it blocked 50% and was pretty annoying. The one where staff was bugged. Your inability to deal with a mechanic should not exclude it from the game so you don't have to learn. And before you ask I was dueling competent players, which I am sure you also were, but unlike you I know how to deal with NB. You know nothing about it or how to use it or fight vs it apparently, because if you did you would know you could easily get past it esp with the yellow halfswings that were in that patch we tested.

I agree that 50% is too much. I am suggesting a value between 10-20%

But I mean, you gotta make up some argument for me as to why its bad to deal less damage when you clip the tip of the opponents lightsaber vs laying into them brutally with a full bodyhit close range. You can't just say 'NB is bad cuz I can't deal with it' and call it a day. Why shouldn't there be a difference in damage, even if that damage is fairly small and should be offset by a corresponding increase to AP to compensate for dueling length even at range?

I challenge you to try and hit me without triggering my Normal Block the majority of the time, since you clearly know how to avoid it.

And I wouldn't mind it if that was all it did, but it affects close range just as much as long range.

 

[noel]

I had a fairly easy time of getting around it in the beta where it blocked 50% and was pretty annoying. The one where staff was bugged. Your inability to deal with a mechanic should not exclude it from the game so you don't have to learn. And before you ask I was dueling competent players, which I am sure you also were, but unlike you I know how to deal with NB. You know nothing about it or how to use it or fight vs it apparently, because if you did you would know you could easily get past it esp with the yellow halfswings that were in that patch we tested.

I agree that 50% is too much. I am suggesting a value between 10-20%

But I mean, you gotta make up some argument for me as to why its bad to deal less damage when you clip the tip of the opponents lightsaber vs laying into them brutally with a full bodyhit close range. You can't just say 'NB is bad cuz I can't deal with it' and call it a day. Why shouldn't there be a difference in damage, even if that damage is fairly small and should be offset by a corresponding increase to AP to compensate for dueling length even at range?

i just think it ruins the cohesion of duels tbh, i really like the feeling of hitting someone and getting that meaty red crosshair, but when that isnt there it kind of ruins the ability to predict your opponents bp. i'm sure i could get used to it and probably still predict bp but i want my fat meaty bodyhits that give so much satisfaction when you hit someone, not just a clink off their NB shield, no matter how much % it blocks.

i also felt it was quite random but i didn't really try to figure out any ways of getting around it/how to even use it myself. i was just kind of pb'ing in roughly the right direction and it seemed to work lol

i think stassin's semi pb ideas are the best tbh, should only work when you've got right click held (swingblocking/blocking) and should maybe do 50-80%, or maybe just make it so pb actually works straight away after a combo and dont even bother with semipb idk

 

[SeV]

i just think it ruins the cohesion of duels tbh, i really like the feeling of hitting someone and getting that meaty red crosshair, but when that isnt there it kind of ruins the ability to predict your opponents bp. i'm sure i could get used to it and probably still predict bp but i want my fat meaty bodyhits that give so much satisfaction when you hit someone, not just a clink off their NB shield, no matter how much % it blocks.

i also felt it was quite random but i didn't really try to figure out any ways of getting around it/how to even use it myself. i was just kind of pb'ing in roughly the right direction and it seemed to work lol

i think stassin's semi pb ideas are the best tbh, should only work when you've got right click held (swingblocking/blocking)

Yeah I would like semi-PB on swingblock/block, but still dubious about running semi-PBs. You'd never risk them in a serious duel so they would happen almost 100% on accident.

About NB, the way I see it. If there is a 10% damage difference between hitting the lightsaber blade and hitting the body, you get an extra incentive to actually aim your swings properly and sidestep to manipulate where you hit the opponent to work around his saber blade. And you get a small reward for it. But we buff AP 10% so it's basically just a reward for those who can play better.

It would also increase the value of the big meaty bodyhits you speak so fondly of, if they happen slightly less often and you have to put in more effort to get them. SemiPB takes up the yellow, so we can have NB be orange or something. Orange is close to red so you'd still feel like you're damage (which you would be if its set up right). I can't see the negatives of implementing NB, because it just increases skill and what we can play around with. It's often the little things that differentiate skilled duelists, and in recent years we've had a cut down of all those little nuances like faking low BP and playing around with pacing, and style switching etc, along with a number of other mindgames that are no longer possible due to ACM, for example.

So much nuance was lost, and little changes like 10% difference between bladehit and bodyhit help give top players more things to play around with. Once you've already mastered all the obvious things, games are won by the little things but ATM we don't have many... it's just about who can grind ACM the best. The 10% places nicely into a BP oriented meta along with the other changes like when below 33% you regen slower etc. If you are skilled and mindful of all of these small nuances there is so much more territory to explore for top duelists. I think that is part of why I feel that recent years drained the joy and life of dueling a bit, because although past builds had a lot of messy mechanics, they also had soul and those small nuances. I am sure some of my old pre aimed PB videos contain a few examples of some mindgames and footwork faking etc, but it doesn't rly truly capture the depths of what was possible because of those tiny details

NB is just one of those details and I would like to see added, but there are many others like the slowed regen below 33% Sometimes it's ok to steamline the game, but we also have to leave room for the imagintion, and room to grow. Old PB was nearly impossible to master, certainly for a human. I was one of the best if not the best at PBing because I was obsessed with it. But even I did not even come close to mastering it. After aimed PB however, PB changed completely. Many good things came from aimed PB, but that sense of the infinite horizon was lost. Small changes like introducing NB help bring some extra height to the skill ceiling.


EDIT: I forgot to mention the fact that NB will also help vs runhitters. Although the 10% difference is small, it is good to have it so there is more incentive for ppl to get close and slug it out. That further incentivizes fast duels. I also think it is a worthy thing to have a slight buff when defending from range. This makes footwork more important, and the duelist who can dip in for a vicious combo then dip out again elegantly will get rewarded for it with NB.

This is another reason why I don't like tempests on running/walking 15% dmg boost. I would prefer this was on swingblock instead so you can control your footwork more elegantly instead of tapping an extra key with your pinky every swing. it is ironic that the argument against swingblock is always about its extra key input, but constantly tapping the walk key with your pinky is not an extra key input? I think I will take tying that to swingblock any day o da week.

EDIT2: I just realized that with the way I am using NB, it shouldn't be called normal block but bladehit or something, similar to bodyhit, aka a disctinction for the attacker and not so much the defender. That makes so much more sense. NB implies that it is a secondary form of PB, which it was in the system achilles tested where it blocked 50% . I don't want it to be like that. I want it to be a distinction for the attacker mostly, so u can reap extra rewards if you are skillful with it but not have it be this major obstacle like it would be if it were 50%

 

[noel]

Yeah I would like semi-PB on swingblock/block, but still dubious about running semi-PBs. You'd never risk them in a serious duel so they would happen almost 100% on accident.

About NB, the way I see it. If there is a 10% damage difference between hitting the lightsaber blade and hitting the body, you get an extra incentive to actually aim your swings properly and sidestep to manipulate where you hit the opponent to work around his saber blade. And you get a small reward for it. But we buff AP 10% so it's basically just a reward for those who can play better.

It would also increase the value of the big meaty bodyhits you speak so fondly of, if they happen slightly less often and you have to put in more effort to get them. SemiPB takes up the yellow, so we can have NB be orange or something. Orange is close to red so you'd still feel like you're damage (which you would be if its set up right). I can't see the negatives of implementing NB, because it just increases skill and what we can play around with. It's often the little things that differentiate skilled duelists, and in recent years we've had a cut down of all those little nuances like faking low BP and playing around with pacing, and style switching etc, along with a number of other mindgames that are no longer possible due to ACM, for example.

So much nuance was lost, and little changes like 10% difference between bladehit and bodyhit help give top players more things to play around with. Once you've already mastered all the obvious things, games are won by the little things but ATM we don't have many... it's just about who can grind ACM the best. The 10% places nicely into a BP oriented meta along with the other changes like when below 33% you regen slower etc. If you are skilled and mindful of all of these small nuances there is so much more territory to explore for top duelists. I think that is part of why I feel that recent years drained the joy and life of dueling a bit, because although past builds had a lot of messy mechanics, they also had soul and those small nuances. I am sure some of my old pre aimed PB videos contain a few examples of some mindgames and footwork faking etc, but it doesn't rly truly capture the depths of what was possible because of those tiny details

NB is just one of those details and I would like to see added, but there are many others like the slowed regen below 33% Sometimes it's ok to steamline the game, but we also have to leave room for the imagintion, and room to grow. Old PB was nearly impossible to master, certainly for a human. I was one of the best if not the best at PBing because I was obsessed with it. But even I did not even come close to mastering it. After aimed PB however, PB changed completely. Many good things came from aimed PB, but that sense of the infinite horizon was lost. Small changes like introducing NB help bring some extra height to the skill ceiling.


EDIT: I forgot to mention the fact that NB will also help vs runhitters. Although the 10% difference is small, it is good to have it so there is more incentive for ppl to get close and slug it out. That further incentivizes fast duels. I also think it is a worthy thing to have a slight buff when defending from range. This makes footwork more important, and the duelist who can dip in for a vicious combo then dip out again elegantly will get rewarded for it with NB.

This is another reason why I don't like tempests on running/walking 15% dmg boost. I would prefer this was on swingblock instead so you can control your footwork more elegantly instead of tapping an extra key with your pinky every swing. it is ironic that the argument against swingblock is always about its extra key input, but constantly tapping the walk key with your pinky is not an extra key input? I think I will take tying that to swingblock any day o da week.

hmm thats true i suppose

kind of comes down to whether we want to make the dueling system more transparent/easier to pick up or not really. little values are good for those of us who have the patience to learn the dueling system but ofc theres the big argument of the large numbers of people who play once and cant understand whats going on so leave and never come back.

i dont agree with the 33% bp regen because of that, just another invisible value which people probably wont notice and will get confused by. NB, idk would have to see what its like set at 10% and have someone show me how to actually get around it etc. orange crosshair instead of red when you hit against it would be good, at least then it would feel slightly meaty

 

[SeV]

hmm thats true i suppose

kind of comes down to whether we want to make the dueling system more transparent/easier to pick up or not really. little values are good for those of us who have the patience to learn the dueling system but ofc theres the big argument of the large numbers of people who play once and cant understand whats going on so leave and never come back.

i dont agree with the 33% bp regen because of that, just another invisible value which people probably wont notice and will get confused by. NB, idk would have to see what its like set at 10% and have someone show me how to actually get around it etc. orange crosshair instead of red when you hit against it would be good, at least then it would feel slightly meaty

That is why I am keeping the numbers low. Like at 33% instead of 50% and NB at 10% instead of 50%

With low numbers and buffed AP to compensate, it becomes a mechanic for those that get into the system more deeply. We at the mid-top lack such mechanics to play with because it's all one thing (ACM GRIND only). I would argue that the game still remains just as easy to learn as before with small numbers like this, yet becomes harder to master since this would bump up the skill ceiling a bit.

The slowed BP regen shouldn't be severe. Say you have defense 2 and you tick for 6 BP. It would drop to 5 or something, not go down drastically. Small numbers that don't matter to noobs but the mid-top can be mindful of and play around with.

 

[Manyo]

I meant what I wrote, don't put words in my mouth. Go back and read it again if you're having trouble, I think my words are fairly clear.

My bad, read too much into the first line with your comparison to melee wooks in the back of my head.

@Drama: you seemed confused why the drama happened. Devs are a team and simply saying 'the devs' instead of 'person x' would have decreased the chances of drama happening. If you don't want this advice then don't take it, but don't be surprised if it happens again and again.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

That is why I am keeping the numbers low. Like at 33% instead of 50% and NB at 10% instead of 50%

With low numbers and buffed AP to compensate, it becomes a mechanic for those that get into the system more deeply. We at the mid-top lack such mechanics to play with because it's all one thing (ACM GRIND only). I would argue that the game still remains just as easy to learn as before with small numbers like this, yet becomes harder to master since this would bump up the skill ceiling a bit.

The slowed BP regen shouldn't be severe. Say you have defense 2 and you tick for 6 BP. It would drop to 5 or something, not go down drastically. Small numbers that don't matter to noobs but the mid-top can be mindful of and play around with.

Again, that'd be nice and all, if the mechanic was consistent. Which it isn't. Again, I have yet to meet anyone that could consistently make use of NB, or get around my own. It's not a skillful factor, it's an element of luck that bothers me in actual duels with serious people. It's annoying.

You want a mechanic to make it so hitting the saber doesn't count for a body hit? Fine. There are far better ways than just making your lightsaber block shit for no reason. Normal block is just the top of the list for a long list of issues that Tempest has virtually ignored, such as the stupid slap stagger which inconsistently rewards people for mistiming slaps.

 

[SeV]

Again, that'd be nice and all, if the mechanic was consistent. Which it isn't. Again, I have yet to meet anyone that could consistently make use of NB, or get around my own. It's not a skillful factor, it's an element of luck that bothers me in actual duels with serious people. It's annoying.

You want a mechanic to make it so hitting the saber doesn't count for a body hit? Fine. There are far better ways than just making your lightsaber block shit for no reason. Normal block is just the top of the list for a long list of issues that Tempest has virtually ignored, such as the stupid slap stagger which inconsistently rewards people for mistiming slaps.

Thanks for this. It has helped me evolve my thinking on NB a bit. I realized that what was needed was not a secondary PB. That was why I was saying that stuff in the previous threads if u haven't read them yet.

Think of NB as lightsaber blade hits instead. Think of it as a mechanic primarily for the attacker. You like finesse right? Having a 10% difference of damage between hitting a saberblade and a bodyhit will enable you to use your mouse and movement to get additional damage in on the opponent with finesse. It is not so much about him actively utilizing this mechanic to block with, since there is a far more powerful block available that will always be used as first prio. So this is primarily a thing for attackers, an extra skill to help boost those who practice alot and give them more to do in a duel than just endlessly grind ACM with runhits. If your base mouse aim matters not only for defense but also for attack, that is actually more consistent in terms of logic, and while it already matters due to yaw, this 'NB' mechanic helps with this.

I disagreed with tempest on NB from almost the start. He wanted a 50% dmg redux on BP or higher, yet ACM gain through it. I wanted lower dmg redux and full ACM blocking. Now that it is actually a possibility that we will finally get rid of ACM the way it currently is, there is no need to have NB for ACM blocking either. As I said calling it NB for me is misleading, becauses from my POV it should be for the attacker not the defender. In tempests version of 50% blocks it makes more sense to call it NB and your arguments would be more valid vs his version than what I am proposing.

I really hope he listens to me. If there is going to be 2 versions for testing atleast make one of them like what I've described, and tempest can have his own thing full of NB and ACM adjusments and swingspeed adjustments and other stuff.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

Thanks for this. It has helped me evolve my thinking on NB a bit. I realized that what was needed was not a secondary PB. That was why I was saying that stuff in the previous threads if u haven't read them yet.

Think of NB as lightsaber blade hits instead. Think of it as a mechanic primarily for the attacker. You like finesse right? Having a 10% difference of damage between hitting a saberblade and a bodyhit will enable you to use your mouse and movement to get additional damage in on the opponent with finesse. It is not so much about him actively utilizing this mechanic to block with, since there is a far more powerful block available that will always be used as first prio. So this is primarily a thing for attackers, an extra skill to help boost those who practice alot and give them more to do in a duel than just endlessly grind ACM with runhits. If your base mouse aim matters not only for defense but also for attack, that is actually more consistent in terms of logic, and while it already matters due to yaw, this 'NB' mechanic helps with this.

I disagreed with tempest on NB from almost the start. He wanted a 50% dmg redux on BP or higher, yet ACM gain through it. I wanted lower dmg redux and full ACM blocking. Now that it is actually a possibility that we will finally get rid of ACM the way it currently is, there is no need to have NB for ACM blocking either. As I said calling it NB for me is misleading, becauses from my POV it should be for the attacker not the defender. In tempests version of 50% blocks it makes more sense to call it NB and your arguments would be more valid vs his version than what I am proposing.

I really hope he listens to me. If there is going to be 2 versions for testing atleast make one of them like what I've described, and tempest can have his own thing full of NB and ACM adjusments and swingspeed adjustments and other stuff.

I still don't like it, because it feels like an unnecessary nerf on the attacker. Like some sort of weird 'skill check', and the problem I have with it is there isn't really much skill to it. As I've said, it isn't consistent, and NB isn't something that the defender can really control that much, and it isn't something the attacker can control consistently either. There is a lot of random chance in between the defender's movement and the attacker's movement.

Again, if there was a significant amount of skill clearly being shown, it wouldn't bother me. However I don't see it. I see an inconsistent and random mechanic.

That is why I hate it. It wouldn't even matter if it was just 5% damage blocking, the fact that it is just there bothers me.

I'm even still confused on the bloody purpose of it. I hear from you it's to make it so hitting the saber doesn't count as a full hit, I hear from Tempest that he wanted to stop yaws/spam (which is the opposite of what it does), and then the stories seem to change every now and then. If I knew what the bloody goal was I could have likely thought of a better alternative by now.

 

[redeyejedi]

I thought the formula of the Jedi vs Gunner dynamic felt a lot better back when flinch didn't exist but primary nades detonated on impact.

It made Jedi v Gunner 1v1s more suspenseful in a Wild West showdown type of way instead of the derpy flinch roulette we play now

 

[Coul]

I thought the formula of the Jedi vs Gunner dynamic felt a lot better back when flinch didn't exist but primary nades detonated on impact.

It made Jedi v Gunner 1v1s more suspenseful in a Wild West showdown type of way instead of the derpy flinch roulette we play now

100% agree with this, jedi v gunner hasn't been close to rewarding or suspenseful ever since they added flinch there was always this level of pressure in the older builds to get the jedi's fp down before he gets to you and the moment he gets close you'd have to risk betting it on knockdown and that was my favourite part of mb2 and the reason i started playing gunner more often this every gunner v saber engagement i still found myself at the edge of my seat even when spectating

 

[MuscBodypillow]

100% agree with this, jedi v gunner hasn't been close to rewarding or suspenseful ever since they added flinch there was always this level of pressure in the older builds to get the jedi's fp down before he gets to you and the moment he gets close you'd have to risk betting it on knockdown and that was my favourite part of mb2 and the reason i started playing gunner more often this every gunner v saber engagement i still found myself at the edge of my seat even when spectating

I've got to admit that whenever I play gunner I always am more affraid of dying vs a gunner than vs a jedi, but that's mostly because I like to go full rambo as a soldier...

 

[SomeGuy]

100% agree with this, jedi v gunner hasn't been close to rewarding or suspenseful ever since they added flinch there was always this level of pressure in the older builds to get the jedi's fp down before he gets to you and the moment he gets close you'd have to risk betting it on knockdown and that was my favourite part of mb2 and the reason i started playing gunner more often this every gunner v saber engagement i still found myself at the edge of my seat even when spectating

Added on there was that swing blocking wasn't a thing yet so every attack they made was a risky opening. That and if you dared to use Push or Pull, you lost FP needed to close the distance. Miss that and you're easily out of force and eating shots. I feel 1.3 was the worst saber vs gunner has ever been but currently it's still only slightly better than that. Here's hoping.

 

[Holo Hero]

I hear from Tempest that he wanted to stop yaws/spam (which is the opposite of what it does)

Out of curiosity, what would be a way to stop yaws/spam in your opinion?

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

Out of curiosity, what would be a way to stop yaws/spam in your opinion?

To lessen the power of yaws, you simply need combo-direction restrictions and larger PB zones. Yawing was very weak in 1.3, compared to now. It was strongest in 1.4 with the weirder PB zones and stronger defense.

Spam can be stopped by nerfing crouch/swingblock.

 

[Holo Hero]

To lessen the power of yaws, you simply need combo-direction restrictions and larger PB zones. Yawing was very weak in 1.3, compared to now. It was strongest in 1.4 with the weirder PB zones and stronger defense.

Spam can be stopped by nerfing crouch/swingblock.

Thanks man, I think these sounds like good ideas as far as I'm concerned. I talked about this in another thread, but I'm not really a big fan of yawing. There have to be more stylish ways to up the skill ceiling other than seizing out every combo.