Official 1.4 Feedback Thread

[LoU]

Please post feedback in this thread.

Offtopic will be rewarded with warning points or temp bans.

You can copy/paste your ideas, feedback, criticism from other threads since because of high amount of pointless posts, these threads have been closed.

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Report bugs here: Bug Tracker

 

[seth07777777]

IDK how to say this, but for ex when u swing up now u can hold and do this 4 time. Its so stupid, its look like the old blue bug exept u can do this in every direction.. its even more spammy than regular combo. And that's is probably why they change the left swing animation to implemante this .And so its why i feel duel so strange Without it i could enjoy 1.4

 

[Gargos]

I'd say most of the stuff in 1.4 seems to be in order when it comes to gunner vs gunner and gunner vs saberist, rly like the stuff. Won't comment dueling because it is not my area of expertise. I have a couple things to say tho

To me it feels like some saber stances have become useless in this new build. I see 0 reasons to use cyan or purple in open. Blue and Red are both better in every way when it comes to open. I myself don't see using any other styles but duals, yellow and blue now. I am fine with it but it still lacks diversity now.

Also gonna copypaste here the same things I posted in bug report section:

Some things I noticed:

Pistol 3: for some reason it is by default using pistol 1, and you have to toggle on the "secondary mode" to get pistol 3. Confusing.

Wrist laser: weapon mode changes a bit too easily. Sometimes I have the wrong weapon mode cuz of that if I also have flame thrower (try it, take flame and wrist and hold the weapon switch button down, it is super fast).

 

[Ragequit]

Only 1 thing you needed - insert new PBlock system and fix cyan. Dat's all. Dat's good. Dat's cool. And it's a new cool animation movie with staffsaber (like a spin but faster). Increased space for side-back kill that prevents yawing or makes it more risky.

That is the right way i think and duels now might be look so cool...

BUT
Now duels look like gay fest in which duelists just kissing themselves and trying to insert a saber into blackhole (nugde)
~80% of ppls use red style cause of OP (nudge)
Staff stagger still work correctly but PBing while right Mblock doesn't. It happens when enemy becomes a swingblocking spammer and facehug you.
Most of ppls still conserve BP with walking-standing still and just spam one sided combo after nudge. It's about 90% duels. Turtle duels still alive and actual.
Swingblocks + nudge is right 100% way to kill. Who wins - depends of swing's strenght (simply - redstyle)
Can't counter correctly with A swing or another one. All halfswings are slower than normal swings (cause of block animation). Can solve with stagger after PB increased stagger time.
You can't force push your enemies with low FP (or 0), which in action of kata/shmata/DFA and holding block
Slaps. Was combofest, now it's slaps fest. Need to be increased cooldown for dat annoying thing.
Now Hero may block your swing by his arms (yea dat's true)
While holding LMB for attack, it still sucks BP hard (for example, you may set BP consume only for swings duration time). Run and hit still eat full BP for about 5 sec.
Some of swings in combo even if they slash your target still not counts (ghost swings I call it)
Still can't see parry. Need an alert on a crosshair.
Staff vs Staff duels looks so flashy and shiny! That broke my eyes x_x
Switching saber/melee is very fast and annoying (slap spammers). Increase switchtime please. They may use saber toss.
With that new animation when saber touch body/saber it becomes dificult to react in duels. So flashy/shiny and seems like convulsion fest :\
Delete semi-PB when swinging. It is cancer for good duels. It's impossible to counter right with dat new thing and punish your enemy for bad mistakes.
It's harder to keep your ACM. So in fact a reward for good ACM count must be higher

But it's still funny to rocket some ppls by arc

Edit some points.

 

[Stassin]

bring back interrupts instead of extremely forgiving parries.

You mean make blocking animations occur when swings cancel-out, like in RC, instead of allowing to combo freely; isn't that a bit extreme ? It would sure murder parry spam once and for all but it would also slow down engagements quite alot; also not too sure about how good it would look, visually. To try for sure.

 

[Perion]

I have only one problem, that problem is the big extravagant and luxurious blue rocket explosion when loaded with pulse nades seems to be... Missing

Or am I missing something? Because I loved that explosion, and now that it doesn't seem to be the same FX anymore it makes me sad

Instead of a big cloud of blue it seems to be a small lightning bubble which is much less satisfying. Please bring big blue back.

 

[SeV]

Okay Achilles. I'm tired of your ignorant bullshit. I am going to address it so that you can stop making a fool of yourself.

Lightsaber System

• New: Yellow style now has a saber vs saber perk. Perfect blocks with yellow drain 1 ACC from attacks.

- Which is literally the most overpowered nonsense you could have possibly added *ever*. If you know how to barely pblock, you are absolutely invulnerable. You can drain full ACM from an opponent with 2 pblocks and a counter swing. I shouldn't have to tell you why this is fucking stupid. Think of something more imaginative, I know you have it in you... maybe.

I can gain 4 ACC with any style in a very short amount of time from a few nudges and halfswings. Saying you drain full ACM from 2 PB's and a counter swing is basically saying that you don't know what you're talking about. 2 PB's and 1 counter with yellow will drain from the opponent -3 ACC which is equal to 1 ACM and 1 ACC, basically what you described drains 1 1/2 ACM, not 9 ACM. It isn't a big deal and you should be receiving a penalty for getting your anus shrekt by 2 PBs and a counter anyways. This isn't 1.3 where anything skillful you do doesn't really matter. When you PB the opponent, it has an impact, and when you counter, it does damage and has an impact. So instead of complaining that you're getting shrekt, you need to learn to use nudges and unpredictable swings to bypass Pblocks. I haven't been PBlocked more than 5 times in the couple of hours I've put into 1.4 so far and I wasn't only fighting noobs. This, like much other so-called feedback from Achilles simply amounts to L2P issues.

• New: Saberists can now continue the swing chain with a halfswing after performing a swing feint (interrupting a swing by pressing reload).

- Which defeats the purpose of ever committing to a slow swing, since not only combos were nerfed, but single swings were made strong, and half swings are demonstrably better.

Halfswings were also slowed to a degree where they are all equal in speed and completely Pblockable so halfswings aren't demonstrably better than in 1.3 but the fact that they are possible from every direction and the fact that a swing can be repeated, increases the skill it takes to PB any swing, including halfswings and 'slow' swings. In any case, do you think you should be rewarded and hand held and patted on the back when you do slow swings and your opponent skillfully Pblocks you and counters you? Again this is just L2P and what you've said is in no way a negative thing even if it is wrong.

• New: Nudge has been reintroduced upon saber/saber or saber/body collisions, when not attacking.

- Looks disgusting, and is disgusting. Nudge is a terrible idea, and it should be removed, unless you can make it *not* cancer.

• New: Perfect block is now called full perfect block. Being full perfect blocked now prevents the continuation of swing chains.

- Which is fairly dumb, it buffs turtle playstyles to a ridiculous degree. Again, with a combination of yellow's retarded perk, and this dumb idea, you can turtle *forever* and never die, so long as you know how to pb. I fought Kael, yellow v yellow, and we could *not* kill each other. When one of us gained the advantage, we'd just turtle up a bit and pb, and then drain the other's ACM, then go back to swinging. It was a never ending cycle. Terrible, terrible, terrible.

Turtling playstyle is the worst possible way of playing in 1.4. It was much, MUCH stronger in 1.3 than in 1.4 but since you're completely clueless about sabering let me spell it out for you. In 1.4 a skilled player such as myself will be able to gather a few ACMs (1 ACM being 2 ACC being 2 bodyhits), on any player. If said player is turtling, he isn't responding and isn't reducing the amount of ACC that I gain, thus when he finally starts fighting back he will be at a big disadvantage as all of my swings will deal much more damage than his swings. Furthermore, You do not receive any noticable benefits from a passive playstyle. 1.4 is a system which promotes active and skillful interactions where you are constantly swinging and PBing and interacting with your opponent, not just doing a mindless 4 hit combo and slapping automatically afterwards. If you and kael were unable to finish eachother off, it simply means you are both clueless about how to play 1.4 and can't deal with it. This doesn't mean the system is bad, it just means you have to tighten up your stubborn anus and learn to fucking play.

I can sort of understand your trepidation with the new system though, since as a 1.3 cyan user you've had to acquire absolutely no sabering skill whatsoever besides decent swing timings. In 1.4 the timing route would be for you to learn to use nudges efficiently with a style like red. But even so you'll be forced to get good at PBing and using feints and other swings that aren't so predictable and easy to PB.

• New: Semi-perfect block: Similar to full perfect block, but can be performed when attacking, running, walking and rolling (not knocked down or in a getup animation), and only negates BP drain and ACC gain. Does not stop combos nor benefits from any perk such as purple ACC gain on PB or yellow ACC drain on PB. Semi-perfect block triggers yellow flashes on the crosshair and BP bar.

- And PB is easier than SPB. Also, I'm kind of okay with this, in the context of 1.3 it could work. However, it just makes turtling stronger, and more luck-based. The amount of times I've been saved from random semi-pbs is hilarious.

You're not making much sense here, so I'm not sure what to say other than the fact that semi-perfect blocks can't make turtling stronger, since turtling means you're not attacking and thus incapable of acquiring SPB's.

• New: Half-swings performed from nudges, chain pauses and blocking animations are now of similar speed in all directions and spinning moves no longer occur in these cases. Swings chained in the air are unchanged.

- This is also quite retarded, because it means everyone is facehugging. There is NO purpose to ever being outside of nudge, unless you're low on BP. No one likes nudge.

No. Halfswings being of a consistent speed does not make people facehug more. Nor does the fact that chain paused swings and swings from blocking animations have been equalized in speed contribute to facehugging. The only reason people facehug is because it gives them nudge, which allows them to attack faster and thus avoid getting PB'd as much. You could learn something from that I think. In any case, what you're taking issue with here is a change which would've been very welcome in any system including 1.3, as it simply means that with a style like yellow, you can use ALL halfswings not just left. That opens up many possibilities. The only reason why you would take issue with this change would be if you didn't understand it, which I'm inclined to think is the main reason for many of your objections at this point.

• New: Counters performed off of a full perfect block are instantaneous and deal 1.2 times BP drain regardless of swing blocking, walking or running.

- Which is also retarded, ALTHOUGH, I do like that you can counter swing from any direction, that is nice. However, this instantaneous counter nonsense, with the damage increase, is a bit silly. Especially with how easy it is to do.

Countering is harder to perform in 1.4 for two reasons. Number one is the reduced PB zones, making it harder to PB. The second reason why counters are harder to perform is that there's only a small timing window in which you can activate it. If you don't activate it within this tiny timing window, you won't perform a fast counter that deals 1.2x damage. Now keep in mind that most swings are dealing 1.1x Damage, so it isn't like counters are super strong. But they are more rewarding in 1.4 than they were in 1.3. It takes more skill to pull off a counter in 1.4, and thus counters have been made impactful.

Do you know the amount of times I've been countered by my opponent in 1.4 so far? 0 times. How many times have I countered my opponnets? Atleast 20 maybe more. And this in only a couple of hours of gameplay, half of it open mode. Countering takes skill and time to learn properly. The fact that you can call it easy is almost as stupid as you saying PB'ing is easier in 1.4 than in 1.3 when the PB zones have been reduced and made to be non-overlapping, effectively removing the easy angle and forcing you to properly PB.

• New: Parrying now drains BP depending on which stance is being used with respect to the opponent's. For this feature, Blue/Cyan/Duals count as light styles, Yellow/Staff count as medium styles and Red/Purple count as heavy styles. Parrying against the same weight class or lighter results in 1 BP loss, a weight class one level above 2 BP loss, and a weight class 2 levels above 3 BP loss.

- Also retarded, it makes fast styles almost worthless. Parrying is now utterly pointless with such strong bonuses from pblocking. You may never have stepped outside your house and picked up a foil, let alone a historical sword, but parrying is a very important factor in sword fighting. Because you're redirecting the opponent's energy away from you, and then counter attacking.

This is a very neglible change and not noticable in most circumstances. It's more of a flavour touch than anything else and all it means is that spammy cyan swings don't have equal weight to a big fat red swing. It makes logical sense for heavy styles vs 'fast' styles and it's not like heavy styles will be parrying much in any case. This change does not in any way make fast styles almost worthless and neither does it affect parrying in any big way. Parrying still prevents you from losing ACC and it still prevents damage in a big way. The only area where this change shines through is when you've got a 0 BP spam situation where someone is spamming vs another guy that has more BP. When parrying on 0 BP you briefly stagger, allowing the opponent to shrek your anus for your impertinence. This is more likely to occur if you're using red vs cyan for example and it makes sense too because it balances out the gap between how many attacks red can spam vs how many attacks cyan can spam.

• Change: ACC gain is removed from all saber special moves except DFAs (Forward+Jump+Attack).

- Keep AC gain, nerf damage. A lucky yellow DFA can spell disaster, and is quite annoying in tight areas. Recovering from a lucky yellow DFA, or Red DFA, can be very difficult, as it essentially puts you at 30 BP. I'd much prefer recovering from an opponent that received some AC than an opponent that did over half my BP in luck-damage.

No. This means that blue lunge and dual stab spam is no longer an ACC accumulation factory. DFA's are the same as in 1.3. Yellow YDFA is very risky and under most circumstances, if you get hit by it you deserve to take the damage. It's very easy to avoid. It's also very easy to just sidestep and uppercut a YDFA in the back. Your complaints here are just L2P regarding YDFA, though I personally also think YDFA damage is a bit on the extreme side. I would prefer if its damage got toned down abit.

• Change: When pausing after a chain during a combo, the saberist now regains the ability to gain ACC for the next chain; a chain being a set of consecutive swings, as opposed to pausing then doing a half-swing; being hit and performing a counter also resets the chain, as does performing a consecutive swing in the air (while not hitting another opponent).

- Which is kind of weird, honestly. It feels like just trading blows at each other. It doesn't seem measured anymore, mostly just a counter swing fest, and is quite boring.

1.3 = Trading combos aka trading blows in LONG combo chains.
1.4 = Trading blows with varying lengths, often short fast intervals, sometimes long chains. There's a ton more space for variations between single hit trading, two hit trading and full combos in 1.4 than there was in 1.3

Also, 1.3 cyan is essentially just 'trading blows' as you time your swing to parry the opponent. What the fuck is your complaint about here? 1.4 is far more of diversifying sabering system than the homogenized mindless spam of 1.3

You say 1.4 doesn't feel measured any more, but in that regard 1.3 was the non-measured, spammy braindead approach. I could just go on autopilot and spam at my opponent in 1.3, but in 1.4 I'm never on autopilot but always nudging, PB'ing, countering, swinging, halfswinging, trick-swinging, semi-PBing and using footwork to either get close or get away to prevent a nudge. In 1.3 what I did was 1 thing, but in 1.4 what I do are many, many things. You saying that 1.4 isn't 'measured' anymore implies that you thought sabering in 1.3 was more measured and calculated and thoughtful than in 1.4 when in-fact it is the opposite. This isn't just a matter of opinion. The amount of actions per minute in 1.4 dueling is much higher than the amount of actions in 1.3, not to mention the brain activity required in 1.4 as opposed to just autistically repeating a few combos over and over again in 1.3.

• Change: Consecutive body hits within a single chain now only drain 0.5x as much BP. Only the first hit of a swing chain drains the normal 1.0x amount.

- Which is kind of dumb, there are MUCH better ways to stop combo spam, than making it useless. As I said before, if you took 1.3, nerfed Red/Purple, and MADE IT SO SWINGBLOCKING STOPPED COMBOS, boom, no more combo spam, unless you screw up your slap/footwork.

Swingblocking doesn't stop combos and it shouldn't. Keep in mind also, that the swing restrictions have been lifted making it easier to combo in 1 direction. This is a nerf to that as much as anything else, but it isn't as much of a nerf as you think it is. The over all BP damage of swings have been upped to 1.2x so that means that whilst it looks like combo damage have been cut in half, it's really not so bad.

In any case, comboing is actually a strong tool in 1.4 due to the interrupts it allows you to perform. Versus a person in a single hit rhythm, throwing a big fat combo at his face suddenly makes you interrupt his single hit rhythm and hit him during a swing. This not only drains alot of his BP but breaks his rhythm and allows you to take the momentum back from him. While combos in 1.4 have been nerfed to some degree, they still remain a viable tool in any competent duelists arsenal. Right now, single hits, two hit combos and full combos are all viable and have their situational uses whereas before in 1.3 you only ever used combos and not much else at all. 1.4 has brought much more diversity to sabering because of this and many other changes and you simply can't understand these things unless you play the game alot and learn to play (which you seem oddly resistant to).

• Change: Slightly reduced purple, staff and dual styles' attacking power. Significantly reduced red style's attacking power. Increased cyan's defensive power.

- You pretty much ruined Staff, and Purple should have received a similar nerf that Red did. Purple is 10x stronger than Red in 1.3, and is still strong in 1.4. Albeit not as ridiculously OP as yellow. The only OP thing about staff was the Mblock, and all you have to do is reduce the duration of the stagger slightly and it'd be fine. Cyan never needed an increase in defensive power, especially now that you gave it Red's dumb perk. Parry cyan was fine, if anything I'd prefer you increase the parry damage of cyan, decrease the combo size, and reduce its defense by 50 percent. Atleast it'd be fun then. Why do the devs have a crippling fear of parries? That is how you're supposed to sword fight.

Staff in 1.4 is a strong style, it just doesn't rely as much on Mblock spam as before but it still has a high base dmg and is harder to PB than many other styles if played skillfully. Purple received a nerf much like red, perhaps even more so. The reason why you might be getting raped by purple more than red is for a couple of reasons. First, since you're incapable of playing around PBs with nudge, feints and halfswing fakes, you're probably getting PB'd quiet alot by purple. Secondly, you're probably allowing purple to build up some ACM by not attacking back as you seem to think turtling is viable and can make you invulnerable when in fact it just makes you more vulnerable. Third, purple scales well with ACM but has a low BP modifier. Fighting purple requires you to constantly work against its ACM gain and keep it under control. Generally in 1.4 you need to be sensitive to the back and forth ACM struggle and it matters more than in 1.3. It is also a fact that Red will be for most people harder to use in 1.4 than purple, because they aren't used to nudge yet. When they become used to nudge, they'll find red just as powerful as purple if not more so due to it's sexy nudges and the flinch.

Another L2P issue achilles. Are we starting to see a pattern here? Perhaps. Perhaps.

--

If you really want to know why we've removed the parry perk and made parrying cost something (albeit a neglible cost), here it is spelled out for even you to understand.

Parrying in 1.3 served only one purpose, it was defensive and dragged out duels that should've ended long ago. Have you ever witnessed a retarded 0 BP 4 hit yellow left right spam, jump spam jump spam jump at 0 BP before? That is one of the things we've fixed by including things like the PB combo stopper and stagger when parried to 0 BP. The reason why the cyan parry perk was removed was simply because it was a boring and noob-friendly playstyle that required little to no skill and no brains to pull off. It was also unimaginative and gave everyone an immense ball ache whenever they faced off against it, so taking such a stupid and pointless anomaly out of an otherwise excellent sabering system is logical. (Unless of course you're Achilles, and relying heavily on a broken mechanic). 1.4 forces people to utilize the many intricate elements of sabering we have available to us, like PBing, countering and halfswinging, whereas in 1.3 a cyan user could completely bypass having to PB or counter or even halfswing. All he had to do was hold WA and tap attack whenever his opponent swung at him.

• Change: Red BP drain on PB perk removed and given to cyan; cyan BP drain on parry removed. Red stagger on 3rd hit is now a shorter stagger (i.e. the player still cannot block blasterfire or PB swings during the stagger, unlike the flinch feature versus gunners).

- Absolutely nonsensical. Red was fine with it, gave it a reason not to spam swings, gave it flavor. The parry perk was demonstrably fine on cyan, and also gave it flavor, it made it effective against multiple opponents, and was by far the most fun style imo in the game. Cyan was not overpowered because of the parry perk, and good players had no difficulty in defeating it. Cyan was a weaker blue in 1.3, now it is a stronger blue in 1.4. Revert it. You literally made every style the same damned thing, and it is boring as all hell.

...

I hate to break it to you, but red was an uninteresting pile of garbage with the red perk. It actively worked against the core principle behind the stance. Of course, given the fact that you're a new and clueless player, I'm not surprised to find that you think turtling with red in 1.3 was an interesting playstyle for red. Oh wait, didn't you say before that 1.4 promoted turtling and said that was a negative thing? Yet you like turtling red with a perk that's counterintuitive to its aggressive roots? Make up your mind already. You can be wrong about everything and have no clue about the game, but atleast be consistent.

• Change: Perfect block (full and semi) zones have been made smaller overall.

- Well I personally find it easier to pblock in 1.4.

The PB zones have been made smaller and they no longer overlap. Nudge can initiate very fast swings that are almost impossible to PB. You can halfswing in every direction, combo off of swing faints and swing directions have also been unlocked, allowing you to mindfuck your opponent with more possibilities than ever before.

Yet you find it easier to PB in 1.4 than in 1.3? Okay then.

• Change: ACM offsets are now the same for all styles. ACM = ACC - 1 for all styles. One exception has been added regarding ACC loss behavior: Blue/Cyan styles lose 2 ACC instead of 1 when bodyhit by styles other than Blue/Cyan, and when perfect blocked by Yellow. Blue/Cyan still lose only 1 ACC when bodyhit by Blue/Cyan.

- Which pretty much makes blue worthless, and cyan almost worthless. Building ACM on those styles has always been absolutely necessary, and now if the opponent knows how to pb/counter you just instantly lose your work. The ACM seemingly is just back and forth from 1.3.

Nudge to gain ACM. Parry to avoid losing ACM. Isn't parrying one of your things? Why the fuck are you not using it to prevent ACM loss with cyan then? The style can literally chain together a wall of parries and that can prevent anyone from draining your ACM.

The reason why this exception was introduced was because with blue nudge and cyan's fast nigh unblockable swings, those two stances got a vast advantage when it came to accumulating ACM. They could almost accumulate it twice as fast as yellow. Now, it's no longer a sure victory to just spam your way to high ACM and not being able to lose it fast either. Blue and cyan gain and lose ACM faster than other styles so they are a bit volatile in that regard. I think that makes them more interesting, not less.

• Change: Slightly reduced the minimum delay between two saber strikes on a single opponent for blue style (other styles are unchanged).

- So... make it faster? I don't think you understand how blue works, and again, didn't you people want to stray AWAY from spam?

This change allows blue style to use diagonal combos, which previously would just result in a passthrough. This has made combos faster with blue, which was one of the reasons why the swing limit was changed to be 2. The other reason being the unlocked swing directions (to avoid ye olde blue bug).

You shouldn't accuse us of having no clue how blue works when you yourself aren't even capable of understanding the implications of simple changes like the one above. Every word you write in 1.4 seems to expose your ignorance to anyone who's willing to look.

• Change: Blue style's swing chaining capacity is now 2 swings instead of 8.

- Meh, I kind of like this change. Feels better to me.

Lol. ^

• Removed: Direction restrictions for chaining swing combos have been lifted for all styles.

- Another stupid move. Now you have mindless spam, such as WA WA WA WA WD and whatnot. After fighting Kael, I pretty much could get around his near-perfect PB skills by just spamming retarded combos like that, because you *cannot* predict something like that. The direction restrictions made learning sabering a challenge, and made getting around an opponent's block a challenge as well.

Lol, Kael near perfect PB skills? Also, WA WA WA is easy as fuck to PB. Also, combo's have been nerfed to prevent this from being as impactful on gameplay. All the changes we've made have been to accomodate the system as a whole, to fit all the nuts and bolts together in a cohesive way which complements the parts, making the whole more consistent and ultimately resulting in a very well thought out sabering system. You need to learn to play.

Direction restrictions haven't made learning sabering a challenge. It's made learning it easier. One of the hardest things for new players is the combo system. I know this because I've helped many noobs over the years and they consistently struggle to combo. This change makes it easier for them to attack with combos, but also makes such combos weaker and easier to PB, not harder to PB.

Oh wait, weren't you just complaining about how PBing was easier in 1.4 than in 1.3? For fucks sake Achilles. How can you say in the same paragraph that Kael, whose PBing skills are apparently godlike, is incapable of blocking simple combos like WA, WA, WA, while in the next sentence saying that these changes have made it harder to get around an opponents block? Are you braindead?

Jedi/Sith versus Gunners

• New: Flinch: Flinches are short directional staggers during which it is possible to use saber melee moves or block blaster fire if not pressing attack. Flinches now occur when a player who is not swing blocking gets shot by an opponent at very close range.

- Which only works well with weapons that have a high rate of fire. What are the odds of you hitting someone with one of the 50 CR3 projectiles you just shot, or the 1 T-21 primary you just shot? It is a poorly thought out system that only benefits a few weapons.

This assumes that the gunner is a noob that can't aim pistol shots at close range, or T-21 shots. It benefits all weapons, some more than others but it benefits all weapons nonetheless. Of course, it makes it easier to play CR-3 than pistol or Big Bertha(T-21), but that's how it's always been anyway. A spammy mini-gun is always going to be easier to hit with than a powerful single hit weapon like P3.

• Change: Purple style swing damage reduced from 440 to 320, red style swing damage reduced from 600 to 450.

- So you just made Red/Purple pretty much completely pointless for open. Gotta have that yellow boner, am I right?

Purple and Red still deal alot of damage to things like droideka's, SBDs and Wookiees, so they aren't useless at all. I think they're just as useful as in 1.3, if not more so given the addition of nudge, allowing a red user to actually kill gunners if he is skilled enough to get the nudge timing right. Whereas before, you'd have to buy blue/yellow to slay Commanders and BH's/Heroes. 1.4 has made all styles more independant of eachother, so you can choose Red and a bunch of force powers and just rely on your nudge skills to attack gunners. Whereas in 1.3, you pretty much needed to use yellow or blue on gunners.

So what you're saying here is sort of the opposite of reality in 1.4, which doesn't surprise me. It's a consistent theme throughout this ignorance riddled word vomit you've spewed forth.

• Removed: All saber vs gun stance perks have been removed, with the exception of duals and staff which now both have an increased deflection arc. (Red style damage reduction, purple style FP damage reduction, cyan style acrobatics not requiring FP, blue style blocking blaster shots while performing jump kick with saber out, duals reduced FP cost of force powers and staff increased FP regeneration out of combat).

- Red damage reduction was more or less a sort of necessity. While extreme, you could have just toned it down a little bit. Or you could, if you were an imaginative person, make a set of skills that you could build into for these types of perks, to add more diversity. So essentially you just sucked out more life from the styles, congratulations. These were neat things that added flavor. Nope. No flavor. Some gunners whined. Remove it all. I don't even see how the Cyan acrobatics not requiring FP is even an issue... like really? Why is staff FP regeneration even an issue? I have never been killed by someone with Cyan/Staff and said "Damn, I wish they didn't have those filthy perks". The others I can sort of understand. Admittedly purple was absolutely stupid. However, again, just seems like a huge lack of imagination. You just took out a bunch of things that made the styles unique, and didn't replace them with anything. That isn't how you make positive changes, devs.

****Jedi/Sith now have a universal 20% damage reduction in addition to the 0.75x when blocking. Does not apply when swing-blocking.

You forgot to mention the baseline addition of 20% dmg reduction to all lightsaber styles, so think of it not as a removal of DR but as a nerf for Red DR while at the same time being a boon for other styles that didn't previously have any DR.

I do think open perks were interesting to a certain extent, but removing them made it easier to balance out the open mode gameplay. I wouldn't mind open mode perks for lightsaber styles, but at the same time I don't think their removal has drastically altered anything at all. They are a flavour item and not a major contributor to the changes in 1.4 open mode gameplay. Those would be flinch and nudge in case you were wondering.

I wanted to end on a strong note, but I half agree with you here. I would like open mode perks also, but the previous perks weren't working that well and as you said yourself most of them didn't have a noticable impact on gameplay, whereas 20% DR across the board does have an impact. Perhaps open mode perks will be something to look at in future updates. I think clearing the ground was a decent choice for the devs.

 

[TheDimReaper]

Personally I like the new idea of flinch. Instead of the jedi/sith being guaranteed a kill, its definitely evened the playing field. Good jedi/sith will still get kills, but smart gunners wont die just because they got rushed. Personally, I would of left the sabering as it was last build, but added the ability to have perfect block stop combos. This stops unnecessary spamming. Nudge seems like a cop out when you have people just run up to you trying to activate nudge for a half-swing. In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't make much sense as a actual combat mechanic.

The idea of flinch makes Jedi useless except for stopping grenades and rockets other than that they are useless. It feels like I'm playing a soldier who has a baseball bat who has some allergy to hitting someone. The soldier feels like it can defeat a Jedi easily and with the 3 lives were Jedi only has 1. And makes it seem like not having the force is better than having the force. Flinch has totally killed Jedi in open and is the worst idea I have ever heard of in my life and whoever made the idea must not be thinking straight.

 

[M@crobyte]

The idea of flinch makes Jedi useless except for stopping grenades and rockets other than that they are useless. It fells like I'm playing a soldier who has a baseball bat who has some allergy to hitting someone. The soldier feels like it can defeat a Jedi easily and with the 3 lives were Jedi only has 1. And makes it seem like not having the force is better than having the force. Flinch has totally killed Jedi in open and is the worst idea I have ever heard of in my life and whoever made the idea must not be thinking straight.

I disagree. As someone who has had a lot of practice for both Jedi/Gunner and has been playing since Build 18, I can state as a fact that it definitely has brought more balance to the playing field. Before, jedi/sith would be able to rush gunners without worry. The counter to not getting flinched is swingblock. I used to think that jedi/sith was going to become useless prior to playing the new build. Having played with both new and old players, it appears that a bit of strategy now happens on both ends of the field.

Of course, I'm not saying that flinch is perfected. It could use some balance in places where high rate of fire weapons are used (Clone rifle, SBD blaster)

 

[TheDimReaper]

I see

 

[TheDimReaper]

My question is has flinch been introduced before?

 

[Preston]

My question is has flinch been introduced before?

Nope, this is the first time

 

[Firestrike]

You mean make blocking animations occur when swings cancel-out, like in RC, instead of allowing to combo freely; isn't that a bit extreme ? It would sure murder parry spam once and for all but it would also slow down engagements quite alot; also not too sure about how good it would look, visually. To try for sure.

Ah I'm not referring to how the idle blocking animation cancelled combos and stopped swings. I'm referring to the RC builds mechanic where if two saberists swung at near the same time, the swing that connected faster would interrupt the slower swing and cause a huge BP drain (roughly 1/3rd yellow vs yellow). In those builds if two people 4 hit combo each other it spelled certain death for whoever had the worse timing, now they all just connect and cancel out as parries - it seems much more forgiving to be interrupted mid swing? That's one of the last things I'd like to see reintroduced as it made swing timing extremely crucial in those builds. It's still important now but seeing the parry window be so large and no one getting punished mid swing still makes me twitch.

Also

I can sort of understand your trepidation with the new system though, since as a 1.3 cyan user you've had to acquire absolutely no sabering skill whatsoever besides decent swing timings.

 

[MaceMadunusus]

Pistol 3: for some reason it is by default using pistol 1, and you have to toggle on the "secondary mode" to get pistol 3. Confusing.

Yeah I thought that was how it was supposed to work when I saw that was being implemented. Just allowing people to switch to pistol 1 when doing suppressive fire to reduce ammo consumption. Should definitely be default on pistol 3.

I have only one problem, that problem is the big extravagant and luxurious blue rocket explosion when loaded with pulse nades seems to be... Missing

Or am I missing something? Because I loved that explosion, and now that it doesn't seem to be the same FX anymore it makes me sad

Instead of a big cloud of blue it seems to be a small lightning bubble which is much less satisfying. Please bring big blue back.

This is probably my fault and unintentional. Very easy fix though.

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

It's his fault! Get the noose ready.

Nope, this is the first time

I guess. Kind of reminds me of t3. Just the opposite effect Or it just cuts out the half where it lets you continue the swing and just forces ur saber askew.

Flinch in general seems fine to me. There was this one moment where I was flinched 3 times in a row but I had multipe gunners firing at my mostly stationary position down-swinging a knocked down gunner.

Next rounds I adapted and made sure to swing block as well as...be shadow? Whatever you call it when you're hard to hit. Artful dodging?

 

[Hexodious]

My question is has flinch been introduced before?

This is the first time for Flinch, in earlier builds sabers lengths were shorter and knockback was much harsher (and left you open).

 

[seth07777777]

i hate the saber system in every aspect of it, i cannot take this anymoar im out, have fun ty for years of good gaming, i maybe com back in the futur see if this get some change. May the force be with u

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

Okay Achilles. I'm tired of your ignorant bullshit. I am going to address it so that you can stop making a fool of yourself.

Aha, I have brought forth the arrogance!

I can gain 4 ACC with any style in a very short amount of time from a few nudges and halfswings. Saying you drain full ACM from 2 PB's and a counter swing is basically saying that you don't know what you're talking about. 2 PB's and 1 counter with yellow will drain from the opponent -3 ACC which is equal to 1 ACM and 1 ACC, basically what you described drains 1 1/2 ACM, not 9 ACM. It isn't a big deal and you should be receiving a penalty for getting your anus shrekt by 2 PBs and a counter anyways. This isn't 1.3 where anything skillful you do doesn't really matter. When you PB the opponent, it has an impact, and when you counter, it does damage and has an impact. So instead of complaining that you're getting shrekt, you need to learn to use nudges and unpredictable swings to bypass Pblocks.

I haven't been PBlocked more than 5 times in the couple of hours I've put into 1.4 so far and I wasn't only fighting noobs. This, like much other so-called feedback from Achilles simply amounts to L2P issues.

So here is a fun test for all those at home. Have your partner swing at you until he taunts with full ACM. Then have him swing at you with W, until he sees his meter completely disappear, while you pblock/counter swing him with yellow. Wow, that was fast, wasn't it?

It is almost as if I tested this before I stated it, something that people like Sev apparently couldn't do during the beta. This seems like another arrogance issue with Sev.

Halfswings were also slowed to a degree where they are all equal in speed and completely Pblockable so halfswings aren't demonstrably better than in 1.3 but the fact that they are possible from every direction and the fact that a swing can be repeated, increases the skill it takes to PB any swing, including halfswings and 'slow' swings. In any case, do you think you should be rewarded and hand held and patted on the back when you do slow swings and your opponent skillfully Pblocks you and counters you? Again this is just L2P and what you've said is in no way a negative thing even if it is wrong.

You had plenty of options with a slow swing into a half swing in 1.3. You had to play around your first swing being slower, either attempting to go into a predictable A half swing, or making it miss into a combo, or simply dragging it to increase speed. Now you just walk into the opponent's face and wait for a nudge, or feint into a half swing. That isn't more skill, Sev, no matter how much you think your playstyle takes skill. Again, this is another factor of arrogance with Sev.

And base on our fights Sev, I don't think you should be telling me to L2P.

Turtling playstyle is the worst possible way of playing in 1.4. It was much, MUCH stronger in 1.3 than in 1.4 but since you're completely clueless about sabering let me spell it out for you. In 1.4 a skilled player such as myself will be able to gather a few ACMs (1 ACM being 2 ACC being 2 bodyhits), on any player. If said player is turtling, he isn't responding and isn't reducing the amount of ACC that I gain, thus when he finally starts fighting back he will be at a big disadvantage as all of my swings will deal much more damage than his swings. Furthermore, You do not receive any noticable benefits from a passive playstyle. 1.4 is a system which promotes active and skillful interactions where you are constantly swinging and PBing and interacting with your opponent, not just doing a mindless 4 hit combo and slapping automatically afterwards. If you and kael were unable to finish eachother off, it simply means you are both clueless about how to play 1.4 and can't deal with it. This doesn't mean the system is bad, it just means you have to tighten up your stubborn anus and learn to fucking play.

Yellow reduces the amount of ACC you gain by way of pblock. Do you not get that was my whole point about turtling? You receive plenty of benefits from a passive playstyle, and I've killed countless people by literally just slapping them to death. *Good* players. Despite the fact that your hilarious arrogance would say 'Oh Achilles, you're fighting baddies, and need to l2p'

1.4 is a system which does not promote any form of skillful interaction. 1.3 involved substantially more skill getting around each unique playstyle, rather than a yellow fest. Kael and I couldn't kill each other, because we turtle up when we begin to lose, and the only way for one of us to start losing, was to start getting hard-countered on our offense. When we turtle, we don't get hard-countered. Again, based on your performance against me, this is most definitely not a 'l2p' issue.

I can sort of understand your trepidation with the new system though, since as a 1.3 cyan user you've had to acquire absolutely no sabering skill whatsoever besides decent swing timings. In 1.4 the timing route would be for you to learn to use nudges efficiently with a style like red. But even so you'll be forced to get good at PBing and using feints and other swings that aren't so predictable and easy to PB.

Bahahahahahahahaha. I think you should go back to 1.3, Sev, and l2p. If cyan was that big of a problem for you, then a good player's blue would've been a nightmare.

I had no issues beating cyan, no issues at all. Against a good yellow user, I had to use staff, or yellow to beat them, because Cyan was *not strong enough*

Do you know why I used cyan in 1.3? Because it was super fun to use! Not because it was good, or easy, but because it was fun. If I needed to annihilate someone, I didn't go to cyan.

You're not making much sense here, so I'm not sure what to say other than the fact that semi-perfect blocks can't make turtling stronger, since turtling means you're not attacking and thus incapable of acquiring SPB's.

Because you're essentially making them run and swing at you to try and hit you while you SPB them, thus they lose and never regain BP, and you simply SBP them forever.

Alternatively, if they don't chase you, you just simply PB them/SPB them for an eternity, causing them to lose any ACM they managed to achieve with yellow, and then they kill themselves from boredom. Get it now?

No. Halfswings being of a consistent speed does not make people facehug more. Nor does the fact that chain paused swings and swings from blocking animations have been equalized in speed contribute to facehugging. The only reason people facehug is because it gives them nudge, which allows them to attack faster and thus avoid getting PB'd as much. You could learn something from that I think. In any case, what you're taking issue with here is a change which would've been very welcome in any system including 1.3, as it simply means that with a style like yellow, you can use ALL halfswings not just left. That opens up many possibilities. The only reason why you would take issue with this change would be if you didn't understand it, which I'm inclined to think is the main reason for many of your objections at this point.

My point, is that the similar speed, is a garbage speed, and you're better off in nudge. I do agree that halfswings from all directions, would be welcome in 1.3, provided they were slightly slower, they're just made completely moot by way of nudge.

Countering is harder to perform in 1.4 for two reasons. Number one is the reduced PB zones, making it harder to PB. The second reason why counters are harder to perform is that there's only a small timing window in which you can activate it. If you don't activate it within this tiny timing window, you won't perform a fast counter that deals 1.2x damage. Now keep in mind that most swings are dealing 1.1x Damage, so it isn't like counters are super strong. But they are more rewarding in 1.4 than they were in 1.3. It takes more skill to pull off a counter in 1.4, and thus counters have been made impactful.

Do you know the amount of times I've been countered by my opponent in 1.4 so far? 0 times. How many times have I countered my opponnets? Atleast 20 maybe more. And this in only a couple of hours of gameplay, half of it open mode. Countering takes skill and time to learn properly. The fact that you can call it easy is almost as stupid as you saying PB'ing is easier in 1.4 than in 1.3 when the PB zones have been reduced and made to be non-overlapping, effectively removing the easy angle and forcing you to properly PB.

PB is easier for me in 1.4. The 'small window' is pretty much just mblock window, which once I realized that by timing mblock and then just swinging, I could land the counter almost every single time, which trivialized it. It doesn't take more skill to pull off a proper counter considering that the counter window is instantaneous. In 1.3, you had to think about your counter swings against styles like cyan/blue, in which this, you can just instantly do it from pretty much any direction.

PB was much harder in 1.3 as I had to predict the *full* combo of my opponent to pb it, which was substantially more fun, imo. Here I just have to guess their first nudge swing, provided I let them get into nudge distance while jogging backwards with SPBs!

This is a very neglible change and not noticable in most circumstances. It's more of a flavour touch than anything else and all it means is that spammy cyan swings don't have equal weight to a big fat red swing. It makes logical sense for heavy styles vs 'fast' styles and it's not like heavy styles will be parrying much in any case. This change does not in any way make fast styles almost worthless and neither does it affect parrying in any big way. Parrying still prevents you from losing ACC and it still prevents damage in a big way. The only area where this change shines through is when you've got a 0 BP spam situation where someone is spamming vs another guy that has more BP. When parrying on 0 BP you briefly stagger, allowing the opponent to shrek your anus for your impertinence. This is more likely to occur if you're using red vs cyan for example and it makes sense too because it balances out the gap between how many attacks red can spam vs how many attacks cyan can spam.

It is quite noticable by me, when I use it, on red/purple. Why? Because I just semi-PB or PB and then spam SA/SD against a fast style, and parry all their swings, while walking backwards. It is quite effective. Only way for them to avoid it is to shadow swing, and then I just build ACM as purple.

No. This means that blue lunge and dual stab spam is no longer an ACC accumulation factory. DFA's are the same as in 1.3. Yellow YDFA is very risky and under most circumstances, if you get hit by it you deserve to take the damage. It's very easy to avoid. It's also very easy to just sidestep and uppercut a YDFA in the back. Your complaints here are just L2P regarding YDFA, though I personally also think YDFA damage is a bit on the extreme side. I would prefer if its damage got toned down abit.

Blue Lunge should remain with AC building properties. Dual stab was retarded, and I agree with its nerfing. However, I'd like you to pay attention to when I say 'lucky Yellow DFA", as in, one that hits when it normally shouldn't. As in, one that manages to hit you with the tail end of the swing, even though you side stepped 20 feet away, or inside of a tight hallway. Or an opponent that just so happened do a strange twirl in the air, that caused the final wide part of the swing to hit in almost a 360 10 meter radius. Losing 60 BP because of that, is rather annoying, wouldn't you agree?

1.3 = Trading combos aka trading blows in LONG combo chains.
1.4 = Trading blows with varying lengths, often short fast intervals, sometimes long chains. There's a ton more space for variations between single hit trading, two hit trading and full combos in 1.4 than there was in 1.3

Also, 1.3 cyan is essentially just 'trading blows' as you time your swing to parry the opponent. What the fuck is your complaint about here? 1.4 is far more of diversifying sabering system than the homogenized mindless spam of 1.3

You say 1.4 doesn't feel measured any more, but in that regard 1.3 was the non-measured, spammy braindead approach. I could just go on autopilot and spam at my opponent in 1.3, but in 1.4 I'm never on autopilot but always nudging, PB'ing, countering, swinging, halfswinging, trick-swinging, semi-PBing and using footwork to either get close or get away to prevent a nudge. In 1.3 what I did was 1 thing, but in 1.4 what I do are many, many things. You saying that 1.4 isn't 'measured' anymore implies that you thought sabering in 1.3 was more measured and calculated and thoughtful than in 1.4 when in-fact it is the opposite. This isn't just a matter of opinion. The amount of actions per minute in 1.4 dueling is much higher than the amount of actions in 1.3, not to mention the brain activity required in 1.4 as opposed to just autistically repeating a few combos over and over again in 1.3.

If you just make swingblocking cancel combos in 1.3, it would fix so many issues of combo spam. Because then you'd have to be careful of slaps, rather than just throwing out long purple chains, or something or other.

1.4 = spamming random weird combos, like WA WA WD WA SD SD.

1.3 Cyan was probably the only style that did trade blows, which made it unique, and fun, albeit you also had to watch your footwork to avoid trading actual body hits with styles like red. That is why Cyan was my most fun, but most *definitely* not my best style.

1.4 is like that for me, where I'm on autopilot, and spam random combos until either my arm flies off at the socket, or my opponent melts. I fought someone today, with yellow, that would have *destroyed* my yellow in 1.3. Yet I just went into his guard, and spammed him to death with nudge *drags* speeding up my swings even further, and strange combos, then stopping to PB/Counter him, and killed him with 80+ BP left. He should have dominated me, because he was markedly better with yellow, and in 1.3, he would have. But not in 1.bore.

So what? The amount of actions per minute doesn't mean it takes more skill. One of the hardest piano pieces I ever played was a Rachmaninoff prelude that was literally just incredibly slow chords. It has NOTHING to do with how much is happening, but *how* it is happening.

Swingblocking doesn't stop combos and it shouldn't. Keep in mind also, that the swing restrictions have been lifted making it easier to combo in 1 direction. This is a nerf to that as much as anything else, but it isn't as much of a nerf as you think it is. The over all BP damage of swings have been upped to 1.2x so that means that whilst it looks like combo damage have been cut in half, it's really not so bad.

In any case, comboing is actually a strong tool in 1.4 due to the interrupts it allows you to perform. Versus a person in a single hit rhythm, throwing a big fat combo at his face suddenly makes you interrupt his single hit rhythm and hit him during a swing. This not only drains alot of his BP but breaks his rhythm and allows you to take the momentum back from him. While combos in 1.4 have been nerfed to some degree, they still remain a viable tool in any competent duelists arsenal. Right now, single hits, two hit combos and full combos are all viable and have their situational uses whereas before in 1.3 you only ever used combos and not much else at all. 1.4 has brought much more diversity to sabering because of this and many other changes and you simply can't understand these things unless you play the game alot and learn to play (which you seem oddly resistant to).

SWINGBLOCKING FULL COMBOS IS THE MAIN REASON FOR COMBO SPAM, BECAUSE IT MAKES SLAP ALMOST TRIVIAL. You should be using mind games to bait out the opponent's slap and THEN swing at them with full combos. Are you daft? You complain about 1.3 being spammy, and yet that is the ONLY REASON FOR THE SPAM!

You need to go back, and learn to play 1.3, Sev.

Staff in 1.4 is a strong style, it just doesn't rely as much on Mblock spam as before but it still has a high base dmg and is harder to PB than many other styles if played skillfully. Purple received a nerf much like red, perhaps even more so. The reason why you might be getting raped by purple more than red is for a couple of reasons. First, since you're incapable of playing around PBs with nudge, feints and halfswing fakes, you're probably getting PB'd quiet alot by purple. Secondly, you're probably allowing purple to build up some ACM by not attacking back as you seem to think turtling is viable and can make you invulnerable when in fact it just makes you more vulnerable. Third, purple scales well with ACM but has a low BP modifier. Fighting purple requires you to constantly work against its ACM gain and keep it under control. Generally in 1.4 you need to be sensitive to the back and forth ACM struggle and it matters more than in 1.3. It is also a fact that Red will be for most people harder to use in 1.4 than purple, because they aren't used to nudge yet. When they become used to nudge, they'll find red just as powerful as purple if not more so due to it's sexy nudges and the flinch.

Another L2P issue achilles. Are we starting to see a pattern here? Perhaps. Perhaps.

Staff in 1.4 deals less damage than Yellow, has less reach, and might as well be the same speed in nudge. The only benefit it has is the mblock, which is nullified with proper use of Nudge. Don't try to bullshit me Sev, if you honestly think Staff is viable, then you're fooling yourself.

I haven't been raped at all, since playing 1.4. 'Cept by really weird nudge-sidewhacks, I suppose, if you want to count those.

If you really want to know why we've removed the parry perk and made parrying cost something (albeit a neglible cost), here it is spelled out for even you to understand.

Parrying in 1.3 served only one purpose, it was defensive and dragged out duels that should've ended long ago. Have you ever witnessed a retarded 0 BP 4 hit yellow left right spam, jump spam jump spam jump at 0 BP before? That is one of the things we've fixed by including things like the PB combo stopper and stagger when parried to 0 BP. The reason why the cyan parry perk was removed was simply because it was a boring and noob-friendly playstyle that required little to no skill and no brains to pull off. It was also unimaginative and gave everyone an immense ball ache whenever they faced off against it, so taking such a stupid and pointless anomaly out of an otherwise excellent sabering system is logical. (Unless of course you're Achilles, and relying heavily on a broken mechanic). 1.4 forces people to utilize the many intricate elements of sabering we have available to us, like PBing, countering and halfswinging, whereas in 1.3 a cyan user could completely bypass having to PB or counter or even halfswing. All he had to do was hold WA and tap attack whenever his opponent swung at him.

Parrying is supposed to serve that purpose, genius. Cyan's parry perk made it the most accurate representation of what an actual fight would be like. Why? Because parrying > Static blocking. But okay, I see you're point, 'Achilles I don't know how to sword fight, I like star wars, and balancing poorly'. Well then, let's look at it with some imagination, shall we?

Was seeing someone defensively spamming parries with, say, yellow annoying? Sure it was. Know what the counter to that was? Building up your BP so he can't kill you with an extra swing. Boom, done. Why did that work? Because you had a huge AC advantage generally, and could save it. Also, you could learn to time your swings to avoid parrying.

Alternatively, you could do what I did, and use cyan, which staggers his parry.

Which reminds me, if you had trouble dealing with cyan in 1.3, then you have no right to tell me to 'l2p' anything.

Clearly you didn't use Cyan much, if you think you parry with just WA, and survive doing that as well. Why are you obsessed with thinking PB takes that much skill? You're like obsessed with this concept of skill that is only in half swings/PB, I don't quite understand it. I'm not saying parrying takes that much skill, but PB doesn't take that much either.

I hate to break it to you, but red was an uninteresting pile of garbage with the red perk. It actively worked against the core principle behind the stance. Of course, given the fact that you're a new and clueless player, I'm not surprised to find that you think turtling with red in 1.3 was an interesting playstyle for red. Oh wait, didn't you say before that 1.4 promoted turtling and said that was a negative thing? Yet you like turtling red with a perk that's counterintuitive to its aggressive roots? Make up your mind already. You can be wrong about everything and have no clue about the game, but atleast be consistent.

Mm, well as a red user you had 3 options. Get Pblocked by swinging first (Or mblocked by staff), counter spam the hell out of them, or do what I did: Pblock them until you can kill them with one swing.

Which made it kind of fun, albeit Red was quite overpowered, that was the primary reason for me to only use pblock with red, to handicap myself with red, rather than spam WA D SA counter combos.

However, turtling was *only* viable on Red in 1.3, because of the perk. Any other style, and you'd be giving your opponent a huge ACM lead that would easily kill you. With red, the occasional single counter swing to check their AC, and pblocks, was enough to actually win. I thought it was a very unique and fun style. God forbid we have that.

The PB zones have been made smaller and they no longer overlap. Nudge can initiate very fast swings that are almost impossible to PB. You can halfswing in every direction, combo off of swing faints and swing directions have also been unlocked, allowing you to mindfuck your opponent with more possibilities than ever before.

Yet you find it easier to PB in 1.4 than in 1.3? Okay then.

Yup, I find it easier to pblock 1 swing than 4 swings.

Nudge to gain ACM. Parry to avoid losing ACM. Isn't parrying one of your things? Why the fuck are you not using it to prevent ACM loss with cyan then? The style can literally chain together a wall of parries and that can prevent anyone from draining your ACM.

The reason why this exception was introduced was because with blue nudge and cyan's fast nigh unblockable swings, those two stances got a vast advantage when it came to accumulating ACM. They could almost accumulate it twice as fast as yellow. Now, it's no longer a sure victory to just spam your way to high ACM and not being able to lose it fast either. Blue and cyan gain and lose ACM faster than other styles so they are a bit volatile in that regard. I think that makes them more interesting, not less.

Because parrying an opponent's full combo can be a bit of a luck game, if they know how to swing properly, they can go through your wall of parries, and take away more ACM than you ever gained. Not to mention, a few random PBs from Yellow undoing your work as well. Oh, and then there is this instant-counter swing that can go through your swings...

No, they don't have a vast advantage when it comes to accumulating ACM. Infact, only one style has an advantage to accumulating ACM with yellow's perk, purple.

This change allows blue style to use diagonal combos, which previously would just result in a passthrough. This has made combos faster with blue, which was one of the reasons why the swing limit was changed to be 2. The other reason being the unlocked swing directions (to avoid ye olde blue bug).

You shouldn't accuse us of having no clue how blue works when you yourself aren't even capable of understanding the implications of simple changes like the one above. Every word you write in 1.4 seems to expose your ignorance to anyone who's willing to look.

Perhaps that patch note was worded improperly, because the way it sounded, was that you actually made the delay inbetween swings landing shorter, which would mean *more* passthroughs, and ridiculously hard to predict/block swings. Glad to see you're so touchy on it, though.

Lol. ^

Guess Blue feeling more crisp to *me* is laugh worthy. Although several good blue saberists despise this change.

Lol, Kael near perfect PB skills? Also, WA WA WA is easy as fuck to PB. Also, combo's have been nerfed to prevent this from being as impactful on gameplay. All the changes we've made have been to accomodate the system as a whole, to fit all the nuts and bolts together in a cohesive way which complements the parts, making the whole more consistent and ultimately resulting in a very well thought out sabering system. You need to learn to play.

Direction restrictions haven't made learning sabering a challenge. It's made learning it easier. One of the hardest things for new players is the combo system. I know this because I've helped many noobs over the years and they consistently struggle to combo. This change makes it easier for them to attack with combos, but also makes such combos weaker and easier to PB, not harder to PB.

Oh wait, weren't you just complaining about how PBing was easier in 1.4 than in 1.3? For fucks sake Achilles. How can you say in the same paragraph that Kael, whose PBing skills are apparently godlike, is incapable of blocking simple combos like WA, WA, WA, while in the next sentence saying that these changes have made it harder to get around an opponents block? Are you braindead?

Kael has better PB skills than you did, when we fought. Yes, WA WA WA is easy to PB, if you know they're going to do WA WA WA. Oh I'm sure, all thought out, all planned. Totally. The reason why I spam combos, is because it is faster than spamming single hits, and accomplishes about the same in less time, against less skilled opponents. In essence, I want to kill them in a minute, rather than an hour. Thanks to your glorious new system, I have to contemplate how long it will take to kill someone that can barely PB. Like one of my students from 1.3, who is now almost unkillable due to being able to PB 2/5 of my swings with yellow.

Direction restrictions, I'm saying, made it tougher to learn how to saber, in 1.3. It took me ages to learn how to combo properly with Cyan (only to all but abandon it in favor of staff), which was a good thing.

I don't think you understand varying degrees. Kael could PB about every swing in a combo of mine in 1.3. The only way to get around his PB was to be unpredictable, so I'd use swings like SD WD A WD to confuse him. In 1.4, I don't have to think, if I land that first hit, I can confuse him just by blindly rotating around my keyboard. Doesn't mean that pblocking is harder in 1.4, it just means that being unpredictable is easy. I still can't kill Kael, and he can't kill me.

This assumes that the gunner is a noob that can't aim pistol shots at close range, or T-21 shots. It benefits all weapons, some more than others but it benefits all weapons nonetheless. Of course, it makes it easier to play CR-3 than pistol or Big Bertha(T-21), but that's how it's always been anyway. A spammy mini-gun is always going to be easier to hit with than a powerful single hit weapon like P3.


Purple and Red still deal alot of damage to things like droideka's, SBDs and Wookiees, so they aren't useless at all. I think they're just as useful as in 1.3, if not more so given the addition of nudge, allowing a red user to actually kill gunners if he is skilled enough to get the nudge timing right. Whereas before, you'd have to buy blue/yellow to slay Commanders and BH's/Heroes. 1.4 has made all styles more independant of eachother, so you can choose Red and a bunch of force powers and just rely on your nudge skills to attack gunners. Whereas in 1.3, you pretty much needed to use yellow or blue on gunners.

So what you're saying here is sort of the opposite of reality in 1.4, which doesn't surprise me. It's a consistent theme throughout this ignorance riddled word vomit you've spewed forth.

I have never met a gunner that can consistently land T-21 primary, Pistol 1/2, or E-11 primary shots at point blank, against my Sith/Jedi. *Never* (Unless you're referring to P3 BH/Hero, in which case the reason for that is bullshit dash/movement speed aiding their distance-aiming.)

I have, however, met gunners that can consistently land one out of the 10,000 CR3 shots they fired at me in the span of a nanosecond when I got close to them.

Not worth it compared to yellow, faster beginning windup, OP against other saberists, and pretty much all around the better choice. As I said, yellow is the *only* style worth taking. You made Purple/Red indirectly worthless compared to Yellow.

What you're saying is pretty much the opposite of reality in 1.4, which doesn't surprise me. It is a consistent theme throughout your arrogant undeserved ego-rant.

You forgot to mention the baseline addition of 20% dmg reduction to all lightsaber styles, so think of it not as a removal of DR but as a nerf for Red DR while at the same time being a boon for other styles that didn't previously have any DR.

I do think open perks were interesting to a certain extent, but removing them made it easier to balance out the open mode gameplay. I wouldn't mind open mode perks for lightsaber styles, but at the same time I don't think their removal has drastically altered anything at all. They are a flavour item and not a major contributor to the changes in 1.4 open mode gameplay. Those would be flinch and nudge in case you were wondering.

I wanted to end on a strong note, but I half agree with you here. I would like open mode perks also, but the previous perks weren't working that well and as you said yourself most of them didn't have a noticable impact on gameplay, whereas 20% DR across the board does have an impact. Perhaps open mode perks will be something to look at in future updates. I think clearing the ground was a decent choice for the devs.

The 20 percent damage reduction is kind of dumb, it just puts forward a 20 percent damage nerf to weapons that didn't need it, and does nothing to weapons that needed it. I'm glad that you atleast partially agree with me, that open is less fun as a saberist due to the removal of perks.








The issue is, open mode gameplay is now substantially *less* balanced. The disparity between gunner classes and their effectiveness vs Sith/Jedi is now much larger. But that is debatable obviously, but is making open less fun worth a slim idea of balance?

If anything the less noticeable perks in gameplay just took skill to extract the usefulness from. Utilizing acrobatics to win with cyan was my favorite thing, also highly useful against multiple opponents. I RP'd Dooku like a dweeb, running on walls, and backflipping to slaughter the gunners, and then taking down multiple Jedi with skilled parrying/footwork. That was fun for me. Taking it away made open mode Sith/Jedi boring, instantly. So then I have to turn to dueling, and nudge/yellow/pb makes dueling boring.

You consistently used 'l2p' as an argument against me this entire time, but I thought you knew better Sev. I had proven to you in our fights that there was little to no skill gap between us, and my issue with 1.4 isn't that I lose, quite the opposite, it is that I win with almost no effort.

 

[MaceMadunusus]

It is almost as if I tested this before I stated it, something that people like Sev apparently couldn't do during the beta. This seems like another arrogance issue with Sev.

Nope, totally a you issue. Sev tested it more than you ever could.

the 20 percent damage reduction is kind of dumb, it just puts forward a 20 percent damage nerf to weapons that didn't need it, and does nothing to weapons that needed it.

If you played any time before saberists were overpowered you would know that this isn't a new thing. Its an old thing being brought back. At least it is consistent.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

Nope, totally a you issue. Sev tested it more than you ever could.

So then why is Sev still wrong? Like this isn't some insanely hard philosophical idea like nihilism, this is a thing you can test in game. Yellow can take away Full ACM faster than you can build it. Like I said, go grab a partner, and test it. Have him build full ACM, then swing at you with W, while you pblock/counter his swings with yellow. It takes away full ACM almost instantly, with, as I counted, 2 Pblocks and 1 counter swing.

If you played any time before saberists were overpowered you would know that this isn't a new thing. Its an old thing being brought back. At least it is consistent.

Is that why you still whined about lightning? Honestly, I don't really see much of a change with my saber success in 1.4. I still push over bad gunners, and face hug good gunners. The huge difference comes from getting flinched by CR3, which is annoying. Attempting to time swings inbetween the barrage of mindless spray coming from those weapons, is a tad difficult.


The biggest difference I've spotted, is *as* a gunner. I mostly only use P1/2 and T-21 Primary for fun, but I find it much harder to deal with the 20 percent damage nerf, and the increased deflection radius when using slow rate of fire weapons. Again, you buffed weapons that didn't need buffs, and nerfed weapons that didn't need nerfs, by way of the 20 percent damage resistance. I'd rather you remove the 20 percent damage resistance from all styles except Red/Purple(and maybe staff, due to the short range, I'd have to check the difficulty of killing with staff vs red/purple, haven't used it in open since the beta.)

 

[Onysfx]

Well, I'm sure all the jedi/sith can at least agree on this: