Making New Content is Pointless Now
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eezstreet
Movie Battles II Team Retired
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OK, let's just ignore the fact that you're just on the other side and calling the other people garbage, which is just the same as what you claim the other side is doing, and let's also ignore the fact that there are RTV servers with pretty normal player counts for a moment. If everyone is playing on the same two maps like you say, how is it that these two servers are the most full ones? How is it that the mod overall is in pretty good shape with regards to players, despite people playing on these two maps this entire time? And, if people want to play on different maps, how come they don't play on other servers?
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ok. Let's flip this on its head. If people like death star 24/7 so much. If RTV were forced, people would just vote for death star all the time so you'd have nothing to worry about? The fact that deep down your worried about this shows that there is a powerless majority who would like to play more than death star and have a decent ping.
It's all hypothetical at the moment anyway.
It's all hypothetical at the moment anyway.
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With RTV everywhere people that form groups and do not really play to be honest - probably you know who I might be thinking about. They will be capable of breaking entire games and making full servers fall apart in an instant... they will achieve that simply just deciding next map that won't satisfy the majority and all thanks to effort of people uninterested in actually playing.
I think the fact deep down they are worried is the inconvenience of having to /map mb2_deathstar every time a large enough group bands together to undermine the objective of the server.
If someone from [tR] is exchanging their money for a server with the purpose of hosting only one map indefinitely then I think they should freely be allowed to do so.
The developers of course are free to make whatever decision they want with this game and can enforce RTV. But, clearly the name of the server is Deathstar 24/7 or some other variant, and the only change a mandated RTV is going to bring is that now someone must supervise the server 24/7 to make sure it doesn't deviate from what they promised in the title. What are you going to do from there? Draft RTV law? Pass a final rule to adopt a global RTV server policy? Penalise them by delisting their server if they don't comply? I know I am arguing with hysterics, but there is not much you can do to prevent a man willingly parting with his money to knowingly acquire a server that hosts one map only outside of preventing people from a) purchasing servers b) using the map command.
You can't force someone to like something. I can't tell you the psychology of convincing someone to see another light, but I can sure as hell tell you calling someone a degenerate for liking something a certain way isn't going to change their mind. If anything it will worsen the schism.
I think the playable map pool is the most enjoyable it has ever been anyway. Starkiller base is my new dotf, scariff is great and both the dotf and lunarbase reworks are great.
Remember eezstreet that I had the luxury of wording things cordially with people in this thread before the 24/7 supporters showed up to start their namecalling. The people who've come to defend the 24/7 servers haven't shown any arguments against 1.) the fact that it's bad for the game's health in the long run, 2.) is bad for other server owners who're trying to compete because they're so much easier to run and 3.) create generations of new players who have the worst selected from them to stay while the best leave for greener pastures. Rather, they've gone straight for attacking me.
Instead this has all become about how "I don't like people's map choices," completely ignoring the fact that one of my main concerns is that this server hosting tactic is horribly bad for the game and community as a whole. People like you are the ones framing the narrative.
No, US RTV servers don't get big or consistent population. Are you in another universe? Can we trade? "Normal" population to an RTV server in the US is empty, with occasional flukes where if you blink you'll miss it. Is this really want normal means to you?
AGAIN, the fact you say this shows you aren't reading or comprehending. I'll say it once more. The quality of players in the mod has gone down. This is because, like a dysgenic breeding program, these 24/7 servers have ensured the new players who want to see new content (who are more open-minded) get turned away by the boredom of playing one-map forever, and old players will leave because they can't get that experience of playing a great variety with open-minded people like they once had without considerable effort. Instead, populating only the 24/7 servers ensures that primarily the dumber or more close-minded people stay to play the mod, because they're not turned away by monotony, but revel in it. That, or they basically get brainwashed by the 24/7 cult into thinking all other maps are bad, so they hate the rest of the content in the game for no reason other than what they've been told.
It doesn't matter what the total player-counts are, the average QUALITY of player is dropping. The interesting clans are leaving or falling into obscurity, and only the clans hosting these 24/7 servers are able to survive. This is BAD. It's horrible, but it's true, and it makes me feel awful that this is what MBII has become.
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eezstreet
Movie Battles II Team Retired
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Well....
(quotes from the MB2 official discord server)
No, if I'm paying to have a server hosted, I want the maps that I or my clan want to play, and not what some random group of q3fill botters or trolling hooligans want to play. If I advertise a server as being 24/7 Jabba, then it should be 24/7 Jabba, not Alderaan or Smuggler because some trollers wanted it to be that to drive players out. The vast majority of people want to play on either deathstar or DOTF, that's why those servers are populated. tR has a RTV server with good ping, yet people don't play there. Hmmmmmm.
Um, what? You were the first person to start namecalling:
You're saying that the people who are playing now are stupid and aren't as "quality" as the community before it. That's even ignoring the categorization you made in the original post of clans colluding to keep servers 24/7 on the same map to drive out new players, which is not even remotely the case.
If you have the effort to type out that much terrible stuff about this community, why are you here? Clearly you have disdain for other players. That's probably why nobody wants to play with you on RTV, not because people like DOTF or deathstar more.
Tell me how I'm wrong though.
Tell me how these 24/7 servers being the most popular in the entire US region aren't driving away new players who want to see new content, and driving out old vets tired of monotony.
Tell me how all the maps are bad except for the few played on these 24/7 servers.
Tell me how these servers are promoting the highest quality of players by giving them the opportunity to grow, and attracting the ones that want to grow.
Tell me how playing one-map every day is smarter and more open-minded than wanting to play a wider array of them.
Tell me how these servers make the idea of developing new maps exciting and worthwhile for anyone.
Tell me how these 24/7 servers being the most popular in the entire US region aren't driving away new players who want to see new content, and driving out old vets tired of monotony.
Tell me how all the maps are bad except for the few played on these 24/7 servers.
Tell me how these servers are promoting the highest quality of players by giving them the opportunity to grow, and attracting the ones that want to grow.
Tell me how playing one-map every day is smarter and more open-minded than wanting to play a wider array of them.
Tell me how these servers make the idea of developing new maps exciting and worthwhile for anyone.
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Ok i may be new here but i cant shut up. This just confuse me on so many levels.
Specially the topic i saw - if you want us to play other maps - make them better because they are garbage... well i am not sure how things go around here but i this is rude. I am not saying praise the goddamn mod creators or maps even if they are lazy ( i will say... i am not attacking any mod creator at the moment) - lets say they are lazy so ... pray to him that he made - what? A laggy unplayable map which is no fun at all... no of course not. Most of maps for this mod is great and ok - some are amazingly well done.
Of course some of them have problems. Even so i will say - if there are problems or issues and things are not change - you should also blame yourself. If you call yourself a player AND part of the community and the only thing you can say is - these maps are shit you dont have respect to mod creators and no respect to this community neither. EDIT: and i will say this.. most of people who write like this - you dont have single idea how much work you must spent to mod.. to create models and maps. It is like being hungry sit in the kitchen and wait for the meal - shouting like crazy that you want food. See the beautiful meal coming .. you taste it and say you dont like it .. it taste awful and i want my meal that i eat everyday back! If you are not a donator.. if you are not a modder or if you are not (biggest reason incoming) a member of this community who want to make this mod even better and support mappers and modders MOSTLY if there are some things you suggest need change or there should be some fixes.. If you are not ready for built statement that will help and give a feedback... think about posting any comment... if you are just a player who is just saying - map is crap .. this will make things worse.. in the long run. Trust me
Communicate .. share opinions.. suggest. Telling map is shit is not an opinion.
And with servers i suggest- the one map servers should be there. This is not AAA game and not a game actaully it is a mod made fans for the fans. So things should be free. Even if it is not good for mod.. but saying ' no ' to people and i mean for bigger part of the community .. playerbase. Doing something that they said they dont want or hate .. is wrong.. and on the bigger scale is something like EA would do.
Specially the topic i saw - if you want us to play other maps - make them better because they are garbage... well i am not sure how things go around here but i this is rude. I am not saying praise the goddamn mod creators or maps even if they are lazy ( i will say... i am not attacking any mod creator at the moment) - lets say they are lazy so ... pray to him that he made - what? A laggy unplayable map which is no fun at all... no of course not. Most of maps for this mod is great and ok - some are amazingly well done.
Of course some of them have problems. Even so i will say - if there are problems or issues and things are not change - you should also blame yourself. If you call yourself a player AND part of the community and the only thing you can say is - these maps are shit you dont have respect to mod creators and no respect to this community neither. EDIT: and i will say this.. most of people who write like this - you dont have single idea how much work you must spent to mod.. to create models and maps. It is like being hungry sit in the kitchen and wait for the meal - shouting like crazy that you want food. See the beautiful meal coming .. you taste it and say you dont like it .. it taste awful and i want my meal that i eat everyday back! If you are not a donator.. if you are not a modder or if you are not (biggest reason incoming) a member of this community who want to make this mod even better and support mappers and modders MOSTLY if there are some things you suggest need change or there should be some fixes.. If you are not ready for built statement that will help and give a feedback... think about posting any comment... if you are just a player who is just saying - map is crap .. this will make things worse.. in the long run. Trust me
Communicate .. share opinions.. suggest. Telling map is shit is not an opinion.
And with servers i suggest- the one map servers should be there. This is not AAA game and not a game actaully it is a mod made fans for the fans. So things should be free. Even if it is not good for mod.. but saying ' no ' to people and i mean for bigger part of the community .. playerbase. Doing something that they said they dont want or hate .. is wrong.. and on the bigger scale is something like EA would do.
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Honestly, I'm not sure why there's all this hostility. If you don't like the 24/7 servers - get some friends together and play on the RTV servers, if you can get 4 - 8 people on an RTV server you will draw in more players rather quickly. If the issue is that you don't have any friends that like MB2 or are interested in MB2, find some new ones on the MB2 or JKA discord - get people interested, setup times for play sessions or just get some friends you can message when you're down to play MB2 so you can reliably draw people into and setup those initial matches to draw more players away from 24/7 servers.
Insulting people and looking at the past through rose tinted goggles won't change anything, if you want to play those maps - play those maps, join a server that has them and invite your friends.
Insulting people and looking at the past through rose tinted goggles won't change anything, if you want to play those maps - play those maps, join a server that has them and invite your friends.
eezstreet
Movie Battles II Team Retired
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Here's the thing though, and I believe I've said it before already, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
I think you're right on all of these points (the ones I've quoted).
But people are still going to play what they want to play.
Taking away people's options to play DOTF or Deathstar 24/7 is going to have a larger detriment to the mod as a whole, because now those people who were wanting to play MB2, will now play something else. You might disagree with me and say that newer players will pick up the slack and become longtime players. The statistics and player counts however tell a different story. People really just play the game once a movie hits, get bored, and play something else. And you might argue that players will stick around longer if they had more maps to play. But if you cut the majority of players out of the NA community, will there be any incentive for anyone to want to play? After all, this thread has really just been a massive complaint on your part that the RTV servers aren't populated. If the 24/7 DOTF servers aren't populated either, who will play? That's what I want to know.
And again, all of this is a complaint that the RTV servers aren't populated. If they aren't populated, go play on them. Idle a bit. People will come. If everyone playing on the DOTF servers that complained or grumbled that they were playing on a DOTF server went and played on an RTV server, you'd see a lot more of the map diversity. Heck, AOD New Player Haven, which is currently on mb2_boc, has 12/32 players while AOD Pandemonium, which is 24/7 DOTF, has 0/32. Right now. Am I stupid for wanting to play on Deathstar sometimes, or are you stupid for complaining about a problem which you partially contribute to? The world will never know.
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So you propose a two tier system where we listen only to server owners. Plenty of people don't like the situation with maps but they don't have a voice and they silently just play on EU servers which tend to be RTV. In practice there's a lot of ways it could be customisable to keep all sides happy. It could be made so say the server owner can nominate 5 maps for people to chose between. It could be made such that the number of votes to trigger a map change customisable, say clamped between 50% and 85%. People go to where the players are, hence the situation with the BG RTV servers which were very popular until people on mass switched. Like I say this is all hypothetical. No plans in place at all, just a possible solution we could look at.
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Well my voice is like this - If you are a server owner - listen what people have to say. Make a topic about your server ask for they suggestions.
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This thread is a crapshoot mess.
Let's be real here, everyone here has good points and bad points, but I think we can all agree that both types of servers need to be more equal.
I just don't like being forced to play on a server that plays the same map 24/7, just because I don't want to sit in a rotation server for half the day and EVEN IF, by the time the server builds up I have to leave.
I think if the community was just more open to join these rotation servers like a few years ago, our community could be much better.
To throw my last two cents in: I think that MB2 is far better off with rotation servers because by the time I play a map for 10 rounds, I'm ready to switch and try some new tactics and fun classes on a new map. This also allows the teams to scramble, unlike Tr Deathstar where usually one team steamrolls the other for 35 rounds.
Let's be real here, everyone here has good points and bad points, but I think we can all agree that both types of servers need to be more equal.
I just don't like being forced to play on a server that plays the same map 24/7, just because I don't want to sit in a rotation server for half the day and EVEN IF, by the time the server builds up I have to leave.
I think if the community was just more open to join these rotation servers like a few years ago, our community could be much better.
To throw my last two cents in: I think that MB2 is far better off with rotation servers because by the time I play a map for 10 rounds, I'm ready to switch and try some new tactics and fun classes on a new map. This also allows the teams to scramble, unlike Tr Deathstar where usually one team steamrolls the other for 35 rounds.
If that's so, then you've admitted that 24/7 servers are bad for the game, bad for the community, and bad for the developers.
However, you've also said that you believe changing anything about this problem will kill the game. It is hypocritical for you to claim what's killing the game when you were just lecturing me on that. In reality, it shows that you don't really believe what you say to me, but rather you're just afraid fixing the problem will kill the game. This is the kind of thing a captive would say.
Firstly, you're assuming that the "majority of the community" plays singular maps just because they love those maps and hate all the others. This is only true for a subset of the community, but this meme keeps getting repeated. The majority of players are just newbies going where the population is. They'll head to wherever has the biggest pop count, regardless of the content. You might take 6 close friends to populate a rotation/RTV server and idle there for hours, but if a new player sees a server with 6 people as opposed to 16, they'll pick the server with more players almost every time, especially if the populated server is one they're used to. There's two factors here: population count and familiarity with the server based on experience. If a server has neither, it doesn't matter if you wait for hours with friends.
It's true that over time you will accrue more players who like this 24/7 thing genuinely. By popularizing 24/7 you kill the interest of a lot of newbies who wanted more content. In reality, the opposite situation would be true for rotation/RTV players if you got rid of the 24/7 players - you'll even convert a good chunk of the 24/7 players to play on rotation/RTV if they liked the game enough already. There's no problem here.
Secondly, you're assuming all the clans will suddenly die without their 24/7 maps. These clans are so big right now the only way they'd truly die is if their leadership forced them to disband, because otherwise the members would still keep playing. Not everyone in the entire clan are there just to play one-map. They do play other things as well, just never as frequently since that's not where the population goes. A lot of these servers aren't even filled up with clan members, but new players like I've said already. TR Deathstar can get a match full of new player without a single TR member around just because that's where the pop already is.
Thirdly, you're also assuming other clans don't exist. Clans like MAF and CB, some smaller less known groups of friends, as well as the older clans trying to make a resurgence like EW and Ðivine will gladly take the population. The number of members in these clans added together is equal or greater to the number of members in the popular 24/7 clans, and their members are still active, if disorganized. You can expect even more activity and organization from them when they have an actual reason to play consistently.
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There's an influx of new players coming in relatively frequently. This game is going to keep being popular for the next years due to the new Star Wars movies and the drought of any good Star Wars games coming out. There's also been frequent reviews from youtubers giving nothing but glowing praise, or videos that give off a positive and fun vibe. New players don't walk into this game saying "all I want to do is play the same map over and over again!" do they? NO, they come in expecting Star Wars, and Star Wars has always been about shifting to new and unique locations and going to new and interesting set-pieces - rather than treading the same mill for life.
Letting players see a wider array of content is only going to help the mod in the long run, even if it hurts the clans who've done otherwise for so long. It feels like your priority here is to defend the 24/7 clans out of fear of them abandoning the mod and taking the community with it, but that simply wouldn't happen, and I've just explained why.
It's fantastic when these servers fill up, but like a rare unicorn siting, the experience is quite fleeting and hard to reproduce.
Also, your expectations on one person to solve the RTV problem are completely absurd. I've been part of clans who worked to do everything in their power to stop this 24/7 problem. We routinely used Xfire (ancient machinery now), Steam, Teamspeak, Forums, and Chatboxes to organize play times and call friends over specifically to popularize rotation/RTV servers. I was in both EW and Divine at one point. We had a good run, but our success was always limited and fleeting, no matter how much effort we put into it. It was a losing battle. It's pretty stupid for you to act like I haven't tried, and moronic to tell me to fix it by myself.
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Yeah this is how I feel. I don't care if you don't like the map fine. However, probably 60% of our maps are perfectly playable and fun as well as not being laggy and balanced enough to be acceptable. I personally enjoy a good chunk of our levels. And I have things I like/dislike about my own maps. Just like I do with things others have made. Of course none of it is perfect, not even my own stuff and I wish I had more time to go back and redo a lot of older stuff but I don't. I just don't understand the rest of the communities intolerance I guess is the word? If you don't like the map, stay for a bit and play with the people and the rest of the classes and play the parts of mb2 you do enjoy that transfer everywhere. There are certainly maps I don't like and don't want to play as often but I'm not gonna disconnect because a group of people does.
Chaos the Chaotic
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Let me sum up the real attitude behind nearly everyone's post in this thread.
I feel like this topic has been discussed before?
t(-_-)t
I feel like this topic has been discussed before?
t(-_-)t
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By myself as "Dotf me one more time" and ton of other threads like this. I asked to have this closed for a repost. Same guy (author of this thread made thread like this one in 2016 he's posting this every year apparently.) Not sure why this thread gets attention (clickbait title *cough*) in particular, troll is very talented.
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