Mace is actually right about sabering

[SeV]

ADAD is heaven compared to what we got afterwards. Hell, it can be fixed by reducing damage from continual ADAD hits, don't need no ridiculous PB system for diagonal swings to be encouraged. Either way, it was hell of a fun, with nudge and shit. The only gripe people (or me, anyway) had with V0.1.4 was the near-unavoidable side-kick knockdown.

Yes, adad is a way of life. It goes hand in hand with urmom.

EDIT: There was also the 4th swing back then. People forget yellow used to be mostly 3 hit combos except for the weird swingblock timing thingie you had to do to get 4. I remember you wanted it reverted so doing 4 hit combos once again became an esoteric art.

 

[Stassin]

EDIT: There was also the 4th swing back then. People forget yellow used to be mostly 3 hit combos except for the weird swingblock timing thingie you had to do to get 4. I remember you wanted it reverted so doing 4 hit combos once again became an esoteric art.

Esoteric and based on swingblock timing via Q_irand(3,5)

 

[Def!led]

Yes, adad is a way of life. It goes hand in hand with urmom.

EDIT: There was also the 4th swing back then. People forget yellow used to be mostly 3 hit combos except for the weird swingblock timing thingie you had to do to get 4. I remember you wanted it reverted so doing 4 hit combos once again became an esoteric art.

At one point, you could chain 5 hit combos until they made it "always 4 hit"

 

[RogueWookiee]

Yes, adad is a way of life. It goes hand in hand with urmom.

EDIT: There was also the 4th swing back then. People forget yellow used to be mostly 3 hit combos except for the weird swingblock timing thingie you had to do to get 4. I remember you wanted it reverted so doing 4 hit combos once again became an esoteric art.

revert back to 1.3 pls beloved system.

 

[FrenzY]

At one point, you could chain 5 hit combos until they made it "always 4 hit"

This was one of my least favorite sabering moments. Halfswing spam builds were really obnoxious.

 

[Def!led]

This was one of my least favorite sabering moments. Halfswing spam builds were really obnoxious.

Yet it was a glorious staple of dueling which dwarfs the current system in complexity when paired alongside nudge.

 

[FrenzY]

Yeah, I remember you loved using it on me back in the day.

I wouldn't say it was 'glorious'. Quite repetitive and dull to see everyone just spamming that.

 

[Def!led]

Yeah, I remember you loved using it on me back in the day.

I wouldn't say it was 'glorious'. Quite repetitive and dull to see everyone just spamming that.

Not really "dull" when you look at what we have today without it.

 

[hleV]

Yes, adad is a way of life. It goes hand in hand with urmom.

EDIT: There was also the 4th swing back then. People forget yellow used to be mostly 3 hit combos except for the weird swingblock timing thingie you had to do to get 4. I remember you wanted it reverted so doing 4 hit combos once again became an esoteric art.

I mean, needing to do diagonal swings was probably the only thing I considered an improvement in the later systems. But again, didn't need no stupid PB system for that to get encouraged.

4th/5th swings should be brought back as a thing achieved with proper timing.

 

[Stassin]

4th/5th swings should be brought back as a thing achieved with proper timing.

Please do elaborate what kind of timing exactly. Because Q_irand(3,5) was not a timing thing.

 

[hleV]

Please do elaborate what kind of timing exactly. Because Q_irand(3,5) was not a timing thing.

A small time window after 3rd swing when 4th/5th swings are possible. Like, 0.5s after 3rd swing (not hit), you have 0.05s to peform the 4th or something like that.

 

[noel]

A small time window after 3rd swing when 4th/5th swings are possible. Like, 0.5s after 3rd swing (not hit), you have 0.05s to peform the 4th or something like that.

why

 

[Def!led]

why

Because once upon a time, timing actually mattered. Basically 1.1 ruined yet another feature

Removed the randomness on the number of swings doable in a chain: Yellow now has always 4, Cyan 6, Blue 8."

 

[noel]

Because once upon a time, timing actually mattered.

mb2 community: no more weird obscure timings and hidden mechanics, make sure everything is clear.
also mb2 community: add a weird timing to something as simple as comboing because timing should matter!! (not as if timing is one of the most important things to the whole jka system, both in base and on mb2)

 

[Stassin]

Because once upon a time, timing actually mattered. Basically 1.1 ruined yet another feature

In case it wasn't already clear enough, not only from my previous posts here but even the changelog line you dug out, there was no timing involved in doing 4th and 5th swings in a yellow combo, as it was purely based on random number generation. This was actually also the case for cyan/blue as the changelog points out, despite pretty much noone having ever noticed it for these styles. Additionally, the timing to do a halfswing from a return has always been exactly the same, by having the attack button pressed when the ending frame of the return animation is reached. This was clearly noticeable when comparing it with nudge, because nudge also puts you in a return animation but lets you start a halfswing at any point during that animation, except for the old A halfswing which also had to wait until the very end of the animation.

I guess by timing mattering you probably meant other interactions like parries.

 

[Def!led]

mb2 community: no more weird obscure timings and hidden mechanics, make sure everything is clear.
also mb2 community: add a weird timing to something as simple as comboing because timing should matter!! (not as if timing is one of the most important things to the whole jka system, both in base and on mb2)

You started playing after timing was essentially removed from dueling, I.e. complexity and skill ceiling for dueling is significantly lower today than it was in RC1 or even v1. Sure you have current PB which adds a depth of a certain "skill" (or more randomness because you basically guess where the second, third, and fourth swings in a combo are coming from) but that is nothing compared to when nudge, A halfswing, and the ability to produce a 4th and 5th combo swing were available in the sabersystem.

In case it wasn't already clear enough, not only from my previous posts here but even the changelog line you dug out, there was no timing involved in doing 4th and 5th swings in a yellow combo, as it was purely based on random number generation.

That's strange because I remember being able to produce it multiple times in one duel and it did seem to be more of a timing thing. Although I think because of the small window it did seem to be rather random because it was difficult to hit it properly. But what do I know, I'm not a coder.

 

[hleV]

It was definitely random when swinging against air, though when actually hitting something (either a hittable object or a player/saber), to me it didn't seem that random (I could reproduce the 4th hit much more commonly on players than when swinging against air for some reason), but it could've been just placebo I guess.

Or Q_seed() just works bad. Pretty sure C++ RNG methods were pretty fucked up back in the day.

 

[Dorito]

As someone who has played since Rc2/RC3, all I can say is that the current system creates way too much of a cookie cutter play style. Everyone that is good at sabering uses the exact same tactics, and all it really is is memorizing combos so you can anticipate a potential pblock. I also notice body hits don't seem to do consistent damage.

I liked the days where saberists actually had to take risks when swinging on a gunner rather than getting virtually unlimited swingblock deflects, which gives them way more chances than they ever had in any build.

The way it is now: Run up to gunners and swing when in range, if you aren't confident in your swing, just swingblock so incase you miss or they hit you, you just deflect any shot that should've hit you. On top of that, you don't even need to worry about walking or getting knocked down because you're a Jedi! You can run and jump virtually anywhere you feel like. so if that pesky gunner keeps interrupting your swings that blaster shots that should be hitting you in the face, you can just jump away to safety until your FP comes back and you can go in for round 2, 3, 4, however long it takes for that gunner to slip up once. All while the gunner has to reload his entire clip because it did a negligible amount of FP damage each shot, not to mention he has to be careful with running and keeping his distance because God forbid you give that puny little mid-swing deflector Jedi an opportunity to skillfully press his push button in the midst of all your saber dodging, accurate shooting, and good footwork.

 

[SneakDissing]

As someone who has played since Rc2/RC3, all I can say is that the current system creates way too much of a cookie cutter play style. Everyone that is good at sabering uses the exact same tactics, and all it really is is memorizing combos so you can anticipate a potential pblock. I also notice body hits don't seem to do consistent damage.

I liked the days where saberists actually had to take risks when swinging on a gunner rather than getting virtually unlimited swingblock deflects, which gives them way more chances than they ever had in any build.

The way it is now: Run up to gunners and swing when in range, if you aren't confident in your swing, just swingblock so incase you miss or they hit you, you just deflect any shot that should've hit you. On top of that, you don't even need to worry about walking or getting knocked down because you're a Jedi! You can run and jump virtually anywhere you feel like. so if that pesky gunner keeps interrupting your swings that blaster shots that should be hitting you in the face, you can just jump away to safety until your FP comes back and you can go in for round 2, 3, 4, however long it takes for that gunner to slip up once. All while the gunner has to reload his entire clip because it did a negligible amount of FP damage each shot, not to mention he has to be careful with running and keeping his distance because God forbid you give that puny little mid-swing deflector Jedi an opportunity to skillfully press his push button in the midst of all your saber dodging, accurate shooting, and good footwork.

stfu

 

[Juvia]

This turned into an argument quickly, let's revert back to the original topic. Mace has good ideas, while basically all dev effort is focused on dueling which means updates come out faster than trophy wives age. Now I'm a bit biased because I gave up dueling a long time ago but that's slightly dumb. Star Wars is a little bit more than swinging glow swords, maybe give us more than 4 Force powers or perhaps an interesting tech item instead of spending a lifetime trying to fix/improve a broken system.