Mace is actually right about sabering

[noel]

also if a developer can somehow code out people who still find spamming 'area clear' 'theres no one here' vc funny on Open; trying to 1v9 as a melee wookie whilst we're all sat in spec trying to smile through the pain of the same joke being repeaed for the past 15 years i'd appreciate it

 

[MaceMadunusus]

also if a developer can somehow code out people who still find spamming 'area clear' 'theres no one here' vc funny on Open; trying to 1v9 as a melee wookie whilst we're all sat in spec trying to smile through the pain of the same joke being repeaed for the past 15 years i'd appreciate it

We already have protections against that. You have two clientside options to limit taunt and voice spam both should be in the options menu. And there is a server side option to help limit chat spam. (cg_chatprotecttime)

 

[noel]

We already have protections against that. You have two clientside options to limit taunt and voice spam both should be in the options menu. And there is a server side option to help limit chat spam. (cg_chatprotecttime)

it isnt enough they need coding out of the community : - )

 

[SeV]

simple things are better, no need to overcomplicate something that relies in so many factors, including ping advantage etc.
also i think the mod should focus on other things as well, FA content is pretty much dead because of the whole focus on other things like game mechanics, this mod could use a Fun factor situation instead of just more of the same, im just throwing some ideas in the basket thats all.

I remember semi-authentic as a cool concept and when we had semi-authentic servers I had a lot of fun there. You start with fewer pts than normal and work your way up.

I would suggest you perhaps even raise the point cap in semi-authentic mode from 80 max to 100 or 120 and have slow gains after reaching the normal open mode cap of 80. That way you can have an alternative to open mode which is more interesting and dynamic and would offer a different experience than a strict competitive format which doesn't rly suit 30 player chaos servers very well.

Just that feeling you got working your way up from weak padawan with few points to a powerful jedai was great and if you could extend the pt cap further you would have something fun that isn't FA or open.

 

[MaceMadunusus]

You start with fewer pts than normal and work your way up.

That is point progression, and works in regular open mode.

 

[Hexodious]

RC1 was my favourite. And if you really want "simple" just do yellow only.

 

[jango40]

Spy, Payload, Multi-Stage Maps... Inspired by Team Fortress? I'd love all of these, especially a payload-style objective on maps like Jabba (which is a very fun map with a great layout but ends up not being played because of the shitty objective)

 

[Phoenix]

I don't like the PBlock mini-game. It is too complex for anyone new to reasonably be able to learn. The system is opaque, unintuitive and most importantly not fun.

took the words right out of my mouth

People who are good at playing Jedi/Sith will always dominate, no matter what. God forbid a duel player join Open Mode, that's when shit just gets ridiculous. It's gotten to the point where I pretty much know everyone's a better duelist than I am- I can't possibly outduel them, so the only times I play Jedi is to forcewhore for fun. Dueling shouldn't have so many mechanics tied to it. You gotta manage your BP and ACM while also trying to PB or even Mblock while also watching your FP (in Open Mode)- making the good players REALLY good and the other players complete shit. It's not fun enough to actually warrant me practicing dueling.

but hey im just a memer so what do I know

 

[Hessu]

took the words right out of my mouth

People who are good at playing Jedi/Sith will always dominate, no matter what. God forbid a duel player join Open Mode, that's when shit just gets ridiculous. It's gotten to the point where I pretty much know everyone's a better duelist than I am- I can't possibly outduel them, so the only times I play Jedi is to forcewhore for fun. Dueling shouldn't have so many mechanics tied to it. You gotta manage your BP and ACM while also trying to PB or even Mblock while also watching your FP (in Open Mode)- making the good players REALLY good and the other players complete shit. It's not fun enough to actually warrant me practicing dueling.

but hey im just a memer so what do I know

That's not true, most duelists suck on open. ACM is pretty irrelevant now so you only have to manage your swingblock, bp, pb (and fp on open) not very complex. If you're not willing to learn then you shouldn't really complain if better duelists can outduel you (and thats how it should go, better players destroy worse players)

 

[noel]

That's not true, most duelists suck on open. ACM is pretty irrelevant now so you only have to manage your swingblock, bp, pb (and fp on open) not very complex. If you're not willing to learn then you shouldn't really complain if better duelists can outduel you (and thats how it should go, better players destroy worse players)

yeah i dont think we should even necessarily simplify the system just get rid of all the weird hidden/invisible mechanics. ACM really should be given some more effectiveness imo, it really is irrelevant atm and it means that sitting there and turtling is stupidly over-effective.

the current build is probably about as simple as we can make it, I think 1.4.9 (with mbcounter) and so on was a more 'complex' build, and it was infinitely more fun. So again I dont really know if simplification is the answer, more like clarity.

 

[SeV]

yeah i dont think we should even necessarily simplify the system just get rid of all the weird hidden/invisible mechanics. ACM really should be given some more effectiveness imo, it really is irrelevant atm and it means that sitting there and turtling is stupidly over-effective.

the current build is probably about as simple as we can make it, I think 1.4.9 (with mbcounter) and so on was a more 'complex' build, and it was infinitely more fun. So again I dont really know if simplification is the answer, more like clarity.

Yeah this is right. I think ACM is handled nicely in what stassin has proposed. Since you're a beta team member you can go take a look and see if you agree. I don't like the arbitrary nature of ACM where it's just an invisible bodyhit counter that increases your attack power. That concept is why we have players like sekundus now playing pussy-style like Dymbesh instead of playing with balls of steel like he used to. At least it's not that effective now since you have PB in returns to gg it.

But it is indeed more about clarity and I think that is partly what ppl mean when they say simplification. They don't want a basejka system. They still want deep and engaging lightsaber combat where skill matters, they just don't want a thousand invisible factors. If someone has blue style, you should know what blue style does and what are it's weaknesses and strengths and how it functions. To that effect, I think the way stassin has gone about designing a new saber system is interesting because it plays on the uniqueness of each style and reminds me of OJP style design. We will never have anything other than yellow style if we continue this streak of patches. His way seems to bring more styles into play naturally. At least that is my impression. We will have to see what will come of it in testing.

 

[Jaikanatar]

took the words right out of my mouth

People who are good at playing Jedi/Sith will always dominate, no matter what. God forbid a duel player join Open Mode, that's when shit just gets ridiculous. It's gotten to the point where I pretty much know everyone's a better duelist than I am- I can't possibly outduel them, so the only times I play Jedi is to forcewhore for fun. Dueling shouldn't have so many mechanics tied to it. You gotta manage your BP and ACM while also trying to PB or even Mblock while also watching your FP (in Open Mode)- making the good players REALLY good and the other players complete shit. It's not fun enough to actually warrant me practicing dueling.

but hey im just a memer so what do I know

Really good players are really good for a reason, they put the time in and focused on each aspect enough to integrate it into their skillset. Their prowess on the battlefield is the reward for that. You have that capacity as well, you just need to have some dedication. If you find the system too uninviting to become dedicated to learning it, maybe the issue is more so clarity, like mentioned above

 

[Def!led]

I just skimmed through that SeV/Mace thread and found myself actually agreeing that devs have spent too much time on sabering.

Sabering is the biggest draw when it comes to JKA/MB2. This poll is completely irrelevant because most of the people who played the older builds such as RC1 are GONE. Of course no one is going to vote for RC1/B18 when those players have left which leaves most voting for 1.3 simply because that is the build they started in.

1.1 (played this one, still had old pb afaik)

Version 1.1

The current PB mini-game (yuck) was introduced in 1.1 and that is one of the builds where we saw a majority of the dueling community leave. If you're going to create a thread you should at least do some research so you don't mislead people because if that's wrong then who knows what else is wrong in your post.

It's also frustrating (imo) seeing two developers almost competing with eachother to make the best sabering build.

If history has shown us anything, two people competing for a better product often LEADS to a better product. If anything, this is good and not bad.

What I don't understand is why we don't just revert to an earlier version of sabering and save the unpredictability, effort and time that creating another new patch is going to produce/require.

Haven't you been trying to argue that reverting back or re-adding features like nudge and halfswing were a bad thing? And now you just flip-flop making most of our arguments now pointless, which makes no sense to me.

Imo 1.3 sounds like the most revered build, and I'm guessing it would take considerably less effort to switch back to this system rather than write another patch which people might not enjoy.

As stated above 1.3 might be the most revered because the majority of the population currently playing MB2 started AROUND that time. If 90% of people who played RC1 were still around, they would vote for it. Almost everyone in this thread alone who legitimately did play RC1 publically announced their support for it. That should speak volumes alone. You have maybe 6% active players who have actually played RC1 on these forums which makes the whole poll data skewed. Like Frenzy touched on, the title and poll are misleading.

This poll leaves RC1 vets looking like

 

[hleV]

V0.1.4 pls

 

[SeV]

V0.1.4 pls

adad

 

[Karus]

took the words right out of my mouth

People who are good at playing Jedi/Sith will always dominate, no matter what. God forbid a duel player join Open Mode, that's when shit just gets ridiculous. It's gotten to the point where I pretty much know everyone's a better duelist than I am- I can't possibly outduel them, so the only times I play Jedi is to forcewhore for fun. Dueling shouldn't have so many mechanics tied to it. You gotta manage your BP and ACM while also trying to PB or even Mblock while also watching your FP (in Open Mode)- making the good players REALLY good and the other players complete shit. It's not fun enough to actually warrant me practicing dueling.

but hey im just a memer so what do I know

What's a skill ceiling?

 

[noel]

Sabering is the biggest draw when it comes to JKA/MB2. This poll is completely irrelevant because most of the people who played the older builds such as RC1 are GONE. Of course no one is going to vote for RC1/B18 when those players have left which leaves most voting for 1.3 simply because that is the build they started in.

So what? You think those players will come back? It's only been a matter of years, I'm sure they will.

The poll is made as a feeler, not as an absolute yes or no. If you really think this vote is going to get accepted and we're all going back to 1.3 you're very naive. It's almost like you didn't bother reading the numerous responses.

Version 1.1

The current PB mini-game (yuck) was introduced in 1.1 and that is one of the builds where we saw a majority of the dueling community leave. If you're going to create a thread you should at least do some research so you don't mislead people because if that's wrong then who knows what else is wrong in your post.

This is such a funny response, it's a fucking post giving a few loose suggestions and suggesting that Mace's opinion shouldnt be ignored and you're acting like I'm intentionally misleading or showing bias. You need to chill bro honestly it's not that deep. Also I'm not researching for a quick poll to give devs a rough idea, I even said 'If I've forgotten any builds, let me know'.

If history has shown us anything, two people competing for a better product often LEADS to a better product. If anything, this is good and not bad.

This is vague, and opinion based. I don't really have anything to say about this, we can agree to disagree. I personally thing those two collaborating could be beneficial and more efficient.

Haven't you been trying to argue that reverting back or re-adding features like nudge and halfswing were a bad thing? And now you just flip-flop making most of our arguments now pointless, which makes no sense to me.

I've been suggesting that we don't remove/readd features that have already been removed for a reason. This has nothing to do with the fact that I would like to revert to 1.3, afaik it didn't have nudge or the fast A half swing anyway, but either way you're completely missing the point of the thread. Again you're going down a slippery slope. Even if I'd contradicted myself (which i havent), to therefore conclude that everything I've ever said is now meaningless is just fucking dumb.

As stated above 1.3 might be the most revered because the majority of the population currently playing MB2 started AROUND that time. If 90% of people who played RC1 were still around, they would vote for it. Almost everyone in this thread alone who legitimately did play RC1 publically announced their support for it. That should speak volumes alone. You have maybe 6% active players who have actually played RC1 on these forums which makes the whole poll data skewed. Like Frenzy touched on, the title and poll are misleading.

Ok so lets go back to RC1 and all of the community from 5 years ago will just magically return I'm sure. You need to realise that we need to cater for the CURRENT playerbase, you're being naive if you think we're going to get a random surge of players who will enjoy an old version. Thats a sure way to kill the community

 

[Tylenol]

That's not true, most duelists suck on open.

glad you've finally admitted to truth
1/30

 

[Def!led]

Ok so lets go back to RC1 and all of the community from 5 years ago will just magically return I'm sure. You need to realise that we need to cater for the CURRENT playerbase, you're being naive if you think we're going to get a random surge of players who will enjoy an old version. Thats a sure way to kill the community

Nowhere in my post did I even once suggest that all of the players from RC1 would "magically" return. I have said it multiple times in other threads that there is no bringing back the majority of those who have moved on. The community has dwindled down since RC1 and I don't think that's a coincidence when you consider what has happened to the saber system since then.

You contradict yourself by calling veterans "oldfags" and continuing to derail improvements to the sabersystem that would breathe life back into dueling. I think the majority of veterans accept the fact that most of the "oldfags" will never return no matter what the status of the sabersystem is. Your narrative is clearly getting in the way of facts in this thread. Your appeal to fear isn't working when you insist that no one in Europe will like this change and when you hint that this change will kill MBII. Sev put it nicely here:

In any case, I'm sure you're aware, but we were having a conversation about how to improve the game by adding mechanics, not having a conversation about bringing back old players, or appeasing some sort of perceived audience waiting in the wing to jump back into MB2. The only real way to go about this, is to talk about how to improve the game rather than turn it into a battle of oldfag vets stuck in the past vs the new glory hole soldiers of 1.3 and beyond. This strange insistence on dividing people rather than talking about mechanics and what we should do to improve the game, is perhaps why you feel you may be wasting your time.

Defiants post sums up what is wrong with the sabering system, something that has been wrong since v1.1.

Personally I think the saber system does need to be much simpler. I don't like the PBlock mini-game. It is too complex for anyone new to reasonably be able to learn. The system is opaque, unintuitive and most importantly not fun. Honestly, in my opinion BaseJKA sabering is better than what we have in it's concept.

The saber system has constantly evolved with good intentions to make it better into the current mess. One of the most basic laws of systems design in any field is that any complex system resists it's own proper functioning - our saber system is no different, and with good intentions over the years we've fought the system's resistance to it's own proper functioning by adding more complexity to it.

 

[Hessu]

glad you've finally admitted to truth
1/30

Didn't mean myself ofc, 25/8 ez