Adjustments to General Gameplay

For the past couple months we have been gathering up ideas and thoughts on how to alter some values to reduce critical breakpoints in the gameplay experience while still staying true to MB2's signature feel. Before even trying them out, we would like to see some discussion on the potential implications and if there are some controversial changes in the mix. None of these changes are final and surely not all of them will ever see the light of day, but many of these ideas attempt to address issues that particularly new players might feel are frustrating.

Note that these changes do not focus on Saber vs Saber mechanics as that is explored elsewhere in Tempest's tweak threads.

General mechanics

• Getup from knockdown activates 0.5-1 second sooner for single life classes
  
• Getup animation from knockdowns changed to a sped up Soldier getup animation while on the ground (mid-air getup is still current coinflip)
• Can't hack objectives while on fire
• All single life classes can sideroll upon knockdown except SBD
  
• Sonic detonator stuns count as assists
• Incendiary Grenade flames stop dealing TK points after being lit for 5 seconds
  
• Assist TKs can be punished
• A primed grenade will tick passively to alert for corner camps

These changes would be focused towards reducing frustration, fixing oversights and small changes to make the game look a bit better. The most significant of these are the changes to how knockdowns look and feel.

Currently the knockdown is a very powerful mechanic that creates tension during a fight and allows for powerful crowd control abilities to be potent. It is one of the big things that sets MB2 apart from everything else. However it can prove very frustrating and can feel unavoidable for the less experienced players. By slightly reducing the time it takes for the getup and giving additional control over your destiny, we hope to alleviate general frustration while slightly reducing the game-ending impact of a knockdown.

All primed grenades will tick similar to Concussion Grenades to allow players to detect corner ambushes more reliably. This will also help players read the battlefield better as they can now determine if a grenade has been primed or not without having to hear the priming beeps.

The Force:

• Pull vulnerability frames changed to match Push
• Push costs changed from 2-2-8 to 2-4-8. Single target knockdown added for Push 2.
  
• Lightning only stuns for the frames that it hits
• FP drains are no longer capped when not blocking

These changes to the way the Force works are slight tweaks to reduce frustrating behaviour in Pull and Lightning. There was a big cool factor in hitting snipes on Jedi/Sith who were playing carelessly, so we would like to bring that back.

Push 3 is generally perceived to be very powerful and easy to use considering its utility. We are thinking of an indirect nerf by making it cost 2 points more to access. Boosting Push 2 would encourage players to save points for other abilities as long as they are comfortable with aiming at their intended targets. People who can do single-target pushing reliably will be able to do so with less points. However, if someone wants to be a crowd control powerhouse, that is still possible, just with an added cost.

Lightsaber

• Passive deflects should never fly behind the deflecter
• Increase Flinch range to match Close IDR for better consistency
• Staff/Duals cost to 0
• Staff/Duals defense arc to match regular stances

These behavioural changes explain themselves for most part. Staff and Duals are made more accessible, but they lose their defensive bonus. Flinch becomes more reliable and both players can expect a specific result when getting shot.

Frag Grenade

• Secondary throw FP drain removed

Knockdown is already punishing enough. It also feels inconsistent as it is the only explosive that does this.

Clone Rifle

• Reduce velocity of both blobs by 15%

The Clone Rifle's blob blasts have become very fast over the course of the years almost sneakily. This has removed a certain feeling of pride and accomplishment from landing air blobs on mandalorians. This also reduces the game ending power the Blob currently holds over Jedi/Sith.

Concussion Grenade

• Direct hits explode on impact dealing extra damage (10-20 HP)

Bring back some of the old Primary Grenade feel to the Soldier class while giving the Double Conc Build a bit more oomph.

Projectile Rifle

• Remove firing delay while scoping
• Introduce focus mechanic: Stand still for 1.5s to fire a 100% accurate shot. Visually decrease crosshair size in the same fashion as EE3 until accuracy achieved
• Adjust ammo available per level 8-12-18

Give the Projectile Rifle back its possibility of quickscoping, but create a requirement of having a setup for making clear shots. Ammo amounts available are also tweaked to make sniping a more conscious decision as it cannot be done wastefully.

Westar M5

• Increase sniper ammo cost so that the clip can fit 1 less sniper shot
• Decrease sniper shot base damage by 3

The M5 is largely where it needs to be, but being able to fire so many shots in succession reduces the feeling of every shot counting. In similar fashion the base damage would be decreased just slightly to emphasize the importance of landing two consecutive shots for the kill.

Bowcaster

• Implement a curved damage increase for the charged shot like with the Disruptor
• Include a sound effect for charging the shot
• Fully charged shots are always accurate

The rapid fire/charged shot swap has made the gun feel more like its own thing. It no longer feels like an overpowered E11, even if only at Level 2. The charged shot is given more emphasis while also slightly reducing its initial damage output, while keeping the maximum charge damage the same. Currently the damage adds up too fast resulting in high damage with very little charging required. These changes just nudge us more towards making the gun feel as punchy as it felt like in Episode 7.

EE3

• Sniper shot damage decreased from 100 to 90

The sniper shot damage is reduced slightly to emphasize shots that land on the chest and head.

Disruptor

• Primary shots pass through targets
• Increase reload time by 20%

The non-scoped mode gets a fun feature that should make it an interesting option in a tight hallway. The Disruptor reloads very fast and this leaves very small timing windows for enemies to relocate and suppress. Increasing reload time should make sniping a more responsible decision.

Melee

• Legsweep no longer knocks down if the target is crouching

This behaviour inconsistent and the legsweep has a very large hitbox, so knocking down players with it is not exactly as thrilling and skillful as it should be. Now players have some counterplay against it.

Poison Dart

• Reduce duration by 33%

Poison can feel like a very frustrating ability when stacked as it forces a player out of the fight. It also grants the Bountyhunter a long timing window for pressure or even securing the kill. This change should increase significance of landing consecutive darts and gives the Bountyhunter less time to capitalize.

That was a lot more than I expected. Please take your time to read and think about these changes. As said above, none of them are set in stone and are more-so starting points rather than final values.

We would love to hear your thoughts. What sounds good? What sounds bad? Why? I am fond of all of these changes and truly believe they make the game more nuanced without feeling too heavy-handed. I am sure we'll disagree on some of the more drastic points, but I would love to see you also highlight which of the changes make the game better even if you feel strongly against some other features.

 

[AgentGibbs]

I disagree with 99% of these changes....

Get ups for 1 life classes do NOT need to be faster as they already have the fastest get ups and removes Jedi/Sith's ability to take advantage of people knocked over by a push at moderate ranges. This is a big deal because it means that the gunner can now get up and start shooting before the saberist can get to them and swing, and thanks to flinch (which should just be replaced with the old knockback system) when the gunner gets up all it takes is one bullet to land to flinch the saberist allowing the gunner to severely punish the saberist -becuase- they pushed them while the gunner was running.

As long as the animations change but the timing is the same and that is what point 2 means I have no issues with a cleaner animation for get ups.

Cant hack while on fire... I can still press buttons while on fire, basically giving my life to complete obj.

All single class getups can roll now - There is no need to change ANY get ups. All you have to do to avoid needing to get up is to walk and not get forcepowered over. "oh well there is a grenade there too" Called teamwork which is what this game is meant to promote aka if there is both a conc nade / sec nade coming at you AND a jedi or sith you dont need to survive without your team helping also.

Sonic grenade assists are fine with me same concept as knockdowns with force powers its a status change that causes the enemy to have a disadvantage.

There is no reason for people to be able to hear primed grenades, they can hear it when the person starts it that is all they need. "Well campers just holding it" Primary grenades aare the only guaranteed kills and they do not blow up on contact you are fine.

Pull vernability. Pull is mechanically a more challenging force to use and therefore does not need to be punished as much as another that is easier. You are going to punish an aimed ability the same as a cone ability...just doesnt make sense to me.

Lightning on stuns for the frames it hits. This is fine in writing but removes the usefulness of lightning powers 1 and 2. Maybe look at it in a manner of increasing stun times based on level. So lvl 1 could have no stun 2 a short stun and 3 what it is now.

Thank god shotgun sniping is coming back

Passive deflects are of no significance really they rarely hit anything that isnt humping your leg.

I just dont like flinch as a mechanic it is never consistent and I think the knock back system that was based on dmg received was more reliable a defense to gunners.

Staff and dualies costing 0 is whatever

Block radii on sabers needs to be imo 178 degrees for single saber and dualies and 200 for staff

Sec nades do fp dmg? never noticed probably b/c I also get shot when that happens but ya remove that sure.

Dont touch blobs they are as balanced now as they will ever be.

Dont buff concs they already can deal more than 50 damage on a 3 life class

Please for the love of god do not make it where you have to stand still longer than ruptor does to shoot a proj accurately b/c thats how I read that. If you want to make no delay on scoping and firing thats fine but dont change the mechanics of its accuracy.

I am ok with lower proj ammo it will give a reason for people to take ammo 3

M5 is where it needs to be

I like all the bowcaster changes it will balance out the problems they have now with lvl2 getting charge shots

Dont decrease dmg to UNLESS you increase its hs multiplier

Legsweep should still knock over crouchers as that is what I always thought its purpose was

Poison darts are fine, if anything buff them back to distorting views.


TLDR;
Stop trying to change base mechanics that have made this game great and fun to play for the last 14 years. I have been playing this game since 2006 and still play it almost daily. So please stop trying to "leave your mark as a dev" and just stop changing things that have NEVER been touched. The best way to leave your mark as a dev would be to polish what we have and turn MB2 back into that game that everyone can play for 10 hours and never get bored.

 

[ANALKIN]

I disagree with a lot of these changes, primarily all of the ones regarding snipers.
Snipers are fine where they are now, they sure as hell don't need any buffs.

A solid statement to describe this thread is "don't fix what isn't broken."
Instead the dev team should focus on adding new mechanics and fixing old ones.
Here are some ideas:

There are a lot of animations and in the game that are still broken. For example, there is a glitch in where if you try and jump immediately after doing a backflip, you get stuck in the end of the backflip animation and instead do a little hop. This is similar to the repulse animation glitch you would get after jumping after a repulse.

I would like a skill that increases FP for jedi/sith to at max maybe 125-150, this would require using points that you would regularly use for saber skills for higher FP pool instead, you could also give all non-saber users 125 FP pool instead.

I think pull mechanics need to be changed a bit, instead of requiring you to aim your crosshair at the guy you're trying to pull, make pull have a radius of maybe 5-3 degrees in the direction of your crosshair. This would fix the laggy pull misses that seem to happen often when using pull.

I think there needs to be some FA exclusive upgraded forcepowers added as well, like a pull 4 that has the same radius as push, and that you can use to pull multiple people towards you like some iconic characters in the movies have done.

Or some FA exclusive debuffs/buffs, like a debuff that you can apply to a character like Darth Vader that makes him constantly walk or have slower capped speed in general. This would be countered by him having very powerful force and saber skills like I mentioned above.
I could go on about all of the different powers that were used in the movies but the general point I'm trying to make is that characters that should be strong in FA don't feel as strong as they should be
These changes would add the immersive Star Wars feel that I think the game should have.

In conclusion, make the game better by adding new content, not rehashing the same stuff.

 

[Tempest]

I would like a skill that increases FP for jedi/sith to at max maybe 125-150, this would require using points that you would regularly use for saber skills for higher FP pool instead, you could also give all non-saber users 125 FP pool instead.

I think pull mechanics need to be changed a bit, instead of requiring you to aim your crosshair at the guy you're trying to pull, make pull have a radius of maybe 5-3 degrees in the direction of your crosshair. This would fix the laggy pull misses that seem to happen often when using pull.

I think there needs to be some FA exclusive upgraded forcepowers added as well, like a pull 4 that has the same radius as push, and that you can use to pull multiple people towards you like some iconic characters in the movies have done.

Also, some of these suggestions regarding Grip/Lightning in dev discussions are with my rework to Force stuff that actually make them more balanced/useful overall (don't have all the details worked out yet but hopefully I'll be done soon).

Additional thought regarding flinch vs the knockback system:
Seems like it would have been easier to tune the knockbacks to be static amounts rather than janky scaling with damage but then again, the damage code is a huge mess. Maybe after it was cleaned up we could just reverted to a cleaner version of the knockback stuff and save everyone the headache of dealing with this stuff.

 

[Starushka]

My humble opinion on some suggested changes:

- Lightning were known for years as a very cheap tactic that in most situations guarantees a kill (Jump > hit target with lightning > swing in mid-air > kill on landing). I agree with people who believes that lightning should be primarily a damage dealer, leave stun for grip. In that case we should increase the damage and make stun lasts only during frames that it hits as suggested.

- Regardless Push i agree with Jiube. Push meta should be changed (90% of people include push 3 in their builds, because gunner vs jedi matchup is tied to this heavily). Proposed getup change and addition of side roll on knockdown is a good start in that direction.

- Agree with increasing Flinch range to match Close IDR.
Flinch is a great mechanic. As Jiube mentioned we should build balance around that mechanic, because flinch is much more fair than "push" on both ends in gunner vs jedi matchup. Next we should adjust force powers and their FP costs, gunner abilities. And finally rebalance weapon stats.

- Projectile rifle - i dislike artificial delays. Let's just remove completely fire delay and reload delay without any nerfs. Let's see how it all works out.

- Other QoL changes are good, agree with everything.

In the end I will say i agree with Lerv and Ben, we should make each class powerfull and fun to play.

 

[President Bossk]

Some thoughts I had:
- What if flinch only worked during the first half of swings (This means people can't just facehug and swing at you but it's also not 100% avoidable just by holding the fire button with high RoF weapons; could even be just for Red/Purple, idk)

I like this idea, make second half of swing for red and purple immune from flinch.

 

[Helix]

I'll cheese fry a gunner so that he can't really kill me and can only run, but he can't run that fast because it also microstuns him, so sux to be him

Nah, I proposed to remove the slow effect, so that the only debuff from lightning would be inability to shoot for the same amount of time as it is now.

 

[Corsair]

You're dense if you assume I think it is the only problem. Try reading the whole thread kid then talk your bs nonsense. Also a tough statement from a 1 post no name random shittalker.

Never did I state, or imply, that you thought lightning was the only problem.

Lightning's mechanics have remained unchanged since god-knows-when (04?) and it's been borked the whole time.
Regardless, I'm interested in seeing how these changes play out.

I suspect we've never crossed paths because you're an EU player and I haven't played on EU servers seriously since like b17.

 

[Nex]

Never did I state, or imply, that you thought lightning was the only problem.

Lightning's mechanics have remained unchanged since god-knows-when (04?) and it's been borked the whole time.
Regardless, I'm interested in seeing how these changes play out..

Well then how about you stop behaving like kindergarden kid that jumps in and insults in first post for no reason? What are you, 12?
Re-read the whole thread because you basically copied exactly what I've said here several times. Except, I do not want to see it how those 'changes' play out.

 

[GoodOl'Ben]

Some thoughts I had:
- What if flinch only worked during the first half of swings (This means people can't just facehug and swing at you but it's also not 100% avoidable just by holding the fire button with high RoF weapons; could even be just for Red/Purple, idk).

This sounds really good to me. Could also adjust it so that rapid-fire weapons with low base damage require two shots as opposed to one or would that feel inconsistent?

 

[SomeGuy]

This sounds really good to me. Could also adjust it so that rapid-fire weapons with low base damage require two shots as opposed to one or would that feel inconsistent?

Honestly I feel the old knockback when hit system worked better than flinch does. It's so easy to just zig zag and swingblock versus a gunner that flinch hardly matters, except versus lower skilled Jedi. And that bunny hopping is still the most effective and prevalent way to kill gunners as well. If you nerf flinch in that way there should be some give/take, maybe remove the damage reduction and restore regular hitboxes on Jedi.

(I feel removing flinch and bring back knockback would be better, while restoring regular hitboxes on Jedi and removing damage reduction from those with sabers. Make damage reduction a point alternative to sabers to give saberless force only ones better defense.)

 

[Tempest]

This sounds really good to me. Could also adjust it so that rapid-fire weapons with low base damage require two shots as opposed to one or would that feel inconsistent?

I don't think there would be a noticeable difference in most cases with those weapons, TBH. Only thing I can think of is someone trying to reflex fire an ambushing saberist and failing because they only get 1 shot in but that's kind of the point with this change (no holding high RoF firing and making it impossible to swing by default).

 

[KuroNyra]

All is good, except for the Force lighting. Seriously, sith don't have anything now.

 

[Blazer]

Wow, a lot of outrage on this. I'll give a 30 second opinion on this:

With the proj rifle being 'nerfed' I think it's good. I don't like the fact that these heros and BH's just pop out of a corner, fire a proj, and peep back within literally less than 1.5 seconds. It's super annoying when your a gunner and this hero gets 3 proj shots at you and when you finally meet him he just p3's you in the face.

Also, good nerf on the EE-3. It's the same thing. These mandos just hide in corners while jedi/sith fight and just peek out and take 2 shots at the jedi and peek back. It makes dueling almost impossible for the jedi. I think this works very well because aside from a headshot, you shouldnt be able to basically shoot a proj rifle twice at a jedi and be able to one shot him. I think being able to lower a jedi to 10 health and be able to use SOME skill to lower the rest is great.

I can't really speak about the lightning because I don't have much of a problem, I NEVER encounter it.
To me, the most problematic thing about lightning is when these forcewhores just use all 100 fp and pop out of a corner and fry my hero for 10 seconds down to 10 hp.

 

[KuroNyra]

I can't really speak about the lightning because I don't have much of a problem, I NEVER encounter it.
To me, the most problematic thing about lightning is when these forcewhores just use all 100 fp and pop out of a corner and fry my hero for 10 seconds down to 10 hp.

Ho god, they actually do damage for a full TEN seconds and still leave you alive after that while you only need two shot to get them no matter the distance. I feel your pain. -_-

 

[Blazer]

Ho god, they actually do damage for a full TEN seconds and still leave you alive after that while you only need two shot to get them no matter the distance. I feel your pain. -_-

I had a hard time understanding the comment. Are you pro-lightning or want a lightning nerf? Because I'm tired of lightning. I think it needs a nerf, but not in the way they did it. My personal problem is that these stupid forcewhores just lightning me then run and hide and I get one shot by some soldier with a pistol1.

 

[Jiube]

Nah, I proposed to remove the slow effect, so that the only debuff from lightning would be inability to shoot for the same amount of time as it is now.

Which actually makes perfect sense. I see what you mean. Basically, this ensures a sith won't get shot in the face by the person he just successfully landed his lightening on. IMO - absolutely reasonable. I would just specify that in my opinion, ability to shoot by the affected gunner should return about the same time sith can defend again. Not sure if these timings quite match at the moment, if they do - this makes it perfect.

Regarding the role for lightening, I agree with Starushka on that one. Lightening should be just a damage dealer, and grip would be a control ability with not that much damage.

In my opinion, the most obvious potential role of speed and MT is gap-closing - get that jedi into his most effective and deadly range. Right now both are hard to use effectively mid-combat, which means they are the next go-to candidates for change.

Could also adjust it so that rapid-fire weapons with low base damage require two shots as opposed to one or would that feel inconsistent?

This sounds interesting. I'm worried of the same thing as you, but it really makes sense. Worth a try.

Stop trying to change base mechanics that have made this game great and fun to play for the last 14 years. I have been playing this game since 2006 and still play it almost daily. So please stop trying to "leave your mark as a dev" and just stop changing things that have NEVER been touched. The best way to leave your mark as a dev would be to polish what we have and turn MB2 back into that game that everyone can play for 10 hours and never get bored.

And I don't play as often anymore. Mostly because some earlier changes made the game less fun for me, or ruined some mechanics I enjoyed.
Duels were one of the most enjoyable parts of the game for me, but were completely ruined since many patches ago and still struggle to find their place. I'm far from returning to them, not until I see a change that looks or feels positive to me.
I'm glad I took part in competetive scene of MB2 when it was much more alive than now, because it makes advantages of open-like gameplay shine. I don't enjoy it that much anymore. And not because I've grown tired of it, no. Because it changed to the worse, even for a more competetive setting, not even mentioning the bollocks going on in your normal public server.
Well, we technically would not be able to return to RC3P3 or something... The changes I suggest are an attempt to return the old gameplay features I enjoyed in older patches, that I can't anymore. Or think of better alternatives, because most of them don't fit the current builds too well - that, most likely, being the main reason for their removal.
And I'm not alone. Many good old players are not playing the game anymore specifically due to the same reasons I mentioned. Another resulting consequence is that newer players will not be staying for so long, after they get more experience and understand some of the flaws the current mechanics have. Unlike you (you, apparently, have a pretty thick skin when it comes to suffering from these things), many of these new players will leave at this point. And that is why the change IS actually needed.

 

[PizzaTheSlut]

Read through the changes and they feel just tacked on with no vision or unified plan for how they should effect game balance. You give the getup buff which is decent and might put Jedi Gunner back to a reasonable state if everything is left unchanged, and then nerf the majority of good gunner classes even further when they are still garbage compared to a Jedi. Jedi has infinite utility, defense, and one shots and is the best class by a mile. The classes that counter jedi, need to COUNTER it. When a saberist sees a counter class, an SBD, Clone or Wook. They should be scared, they should need to call a gunner teammate for back up to win the engagement, against a class that counters them. Jedi/Sith are 2 classes in a many class game, for many patches now it feels like they are the only class while other ones are just window dressing to let players live a jedi power fantasy. The design of the mod certainly didn't use to be like that. All the classes had ups and down in balance, Saberist was good but never oppressive. Different classes were the best between different patches. These changes read like someone just looked at all the stuff commonly used, and made an adjustment to personal tastes and personal class preferences. Not even attempting to shift the overall class balance, or address core problems like Jedi spam in open mode.

If you keep balance at the current state, then give some buffs to SBD and Wookie I think the game would be much healthier. Jedi spamming a server, taking up 90% of class usage? Then a team can spam SBD/Wook and feel confident the average player can counter the average jedi because the class will actually counter it. Remove crouch protection on just saberists for Wookie Charge and give SBD cort 2 and the game is actually balanced again. Trying to increasingly funnel the shrinking player base into a jedi only game is not going to do anything for the longevity of the mod. This should be a fun team based game with reasonable rock paper scissors balance.

Don't pretend you're blizzard with these big old patch notes of tiny adjustments, actually look at what your goal for the game is. Is it to make Jedi/Sith the dominant class with no question and gunners are sort of utility low tier support? If that's the goal at least state it outright. Or do we want a tactical round based, class balanced game similar to Overwatch. Whichever it is please outline it before trying to make balance changes.

 

[Noob]

I think there needs to be some FA exclusive upgraded forcepowers added as well, like a pull 4 that has the same radius as push, and that you can use to pull multiple people towards you like some iconic characters in the movies have done.

this

Or some FA exclusive debuffs/buffs, like a debuff that you can apply to a character like Darth Vader that makes him constantly walk or have slower capped speed in general. This would be countered by him having very powerful force and saber skills like I mentioned above.

 

[yoinkboink]

I feel like some of the people in this thread don't really know what is truly best for the core flow of gameplay. The reason that these are all proposed changes for only existing mechanics is because for years, people have had issues with what's already there. No one wants rushed mechanics to be added to the game while the core gameplay could use some fine-tuning.

That being said, I agree with the changes proposed, but I feel a new post might be in order with further specifications and newer ideas, now that you've seen all of our thoughts.

 

[KuroNyra]

I had a hard time understanding the comment. Are you pro-lightning or want a lightning nerf? Because I'm tired of lightning. I think it needs a nerf, but not in the way they did it. My personal problem is that these stupid forcewhores just lightning me then run and hide and I get one shot by some soldier with a pistol1.

Completly pro-lighting. It is basicly the ONLY way for a Sith to remotly having a chance against gunners, especially clones, arc trooper, and hight rate of fire soldier. Because if you don't, the clone WILL hit you and prevent you from doing anything because of the Flinch, and his ROF is more than enought to kill you. Push don't do anything, because at this point EVERYBODY know how to counter it. Pull isn't worth it, especially against multiple opponent like it's ALWAYS the case.

Now, each time I try to get the advantage against a gunner is by basicly hiding, try a lighting to prevent the already stupid flinch, and take a swing, hoping to cut the guy in half.

Problem is, the guy is NEVER alone, and flinch will almost certainly prevent you from doing stuff, so I need to jump, and what does jump do? Ho yeah, it take Force out of me, and with huge number. I can't even do lighting anymore after that and I'm toast, and it doesn't matter if they are guys with me. All gunner always focus the glowstick.
This has become ridiculously hard to even be remotly effective against gunner in this game it's not even funny.


Just look at the Heros. They can litteraly DASH out of your lightsaber reach and ALWAYS have enought stamina to do it. They can Flinch your attempt at attacking them, you can't even have a decent chance of pushing them because all player KNOW how to counter it. And they have one-hit sniper that can take at a large portion of your Force.


Did I also mention than being hit and blocking blasters prevent you from using force power?

The only reason I play Sith is because I'm here to play a JEDI game, not a GUNNER game. If I just want to shoot at other people, I'd rather play Republic Commando or even Battlefront. But here? We have a game with one -if not THE- best dueling system. But the strenght of what was Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy is each time reduced here.