Adjustments to General Gameplay

For the past couple months we have been gathering up ideas and thoughts on how to alter some values to reduce critical breakpoints in the gameplay experience while still staying true to MB2's signature feel. Before even trying them out, we would like to see some discussion on the potential implications and if there are some controversial changes in the mix. None of these changes are final and surely not all of them will ever see the light of day, but many of these ideas attempt to address issues that particularly new players might feel are frustrating.

Note that these changes do not focus on Saber vs Saber mechanics as that is explored elsewhere in Tempest's tweak threads.

General mechanics

• Getup from knockdown activates 0.5-1 second sooner for single life classes
  
• Getup animation from knockdowns changed to a sped up Soldier getup animation while on the ground (mid-air getup is still current coinflip)
• Can't hack objectives while on fire
• All single life classes can sideroll upon knockdown except SBD
  
• Sonic detonator stuns count as assists
• Incendiary Grenade flames stop dealing TK points after being lit for 5 seconds
  
• Assist TKs can be punished
• A primed grenade will tick passively to alert for corner camps

These changes would be focused towards reducing frustration, fixing oversights and small changes to make the game look a bit better. The most significant of these are the changes to how knockdowns look and feel.

Currently the knockdown is a very powerful mechanic that creates tension during a fight and allows for powerful crowd control abilities to be potent. It is one of the big things that sets MB2 apart from everything else. However it can prove very frustrating and can feel unavoidable for the less experienced players. By slightly reducing the time it takes for the getup and giving additional control over your destiny, we hope to alleviate general frustration while slightly reducing the game-ending impact of a knockdown.

All primed grenades will tick similar to Concussion Grenades to allow players to detect corner ambushes more reliably. This will also help players read the battlefield better as they can now determine if a grenade has been primed or not without having to hear the priming beeps.

The Force:

• Pull vulnerability frames changed to match Push
• Push costs changed from 2-2-8 to 2-4-8. Single target knockdown added for Push 2.
  
• Lightning only stuns for the frames that it hits
• FP drains are no longer capped when not blocking

These changes to the way the Force works are slight tweaks to reduce frustrating behaviour in Pull and Lightning. There was a big cool factor in hitting snipes on Jedi/Sith who were playing carelessly, so we would like to bring that back.

Push 3 is generally perceived to be very powerful and easy to use considering its utility. We are thinking of an indirect nerf by making it cost 2 points more to access. Boosting Push 2 would encourage players to save points for other abilities as long as they are comfortable with aiming at their intended targets. People who can do single-target pushing reliably will be able to do so with less points. However, if someone wants to be a crowd control powerhouse, that is still possible, just with an added cost.

Lightsaber

• Passive deflects should never fly behind the deflecter
• Increase Flinch range to match Close IDR for better consistency
• Staff/Duals cost to 0
• Staff/Duals defense arc to match regular stances

These behavioural changes explain themselves for most part. Staff and Duals are made more accessible, but they lose their defensive bonus. Flinch becomes more reliable and both players can expect a specific result when getting shot.

Frag Grenade

• Secondary throw FP drain removed

Knockdown is already punishing enough. It also feels inconsistent as it is the only explosive that does this.

Clone Rifle

• Reduce velocity of both blobs by 15%

The Clone Rifle's blob blasts have become very fast over the course of the years almost sneakily. This has removed a certain feeling of pride and accomplishment from landing air blobs on mandalorians. This also reduces the game ending power the Blob currently holds over Jedi/Sith.

Concussion Grenade

• Direct hits explode on impact dealing extra damage (10-20 HP)

Bring back some of the old Primary Grenade feel to the Soldier class while giving the Double Conc Build a bit more oomph.

Projectile Rifle

• Remove firing delay while scoping
• Introduce focus mechanic: Stand still for 1.5s to fire a 100% accurate shot. Visually decrease crosshair size in the same fashion as EE3 until accuracy achieved
• Adjust ammo available per level 8-12-18

Give the Projectile Rifle back its possibility of quickscoping, but create a requirement of having a setup for making clear shots. Ammo amounts available are also tweaked to make sniping a more conscious decision as it cannot be done wastefully.

Westar M5

• Increase sniper ammo cost so that the clip can fit 1 less sniper shot
• Decrease sniper shot base damage by 3

The M5 is largely where it needs to be, but being able to fire so many shots in succession reduces the feeling of every shot counting. In similar fashion the base damage would be decreased just slightly to emphasize the importance of landing two consecutive shots for the kill.

Bowcaster

• Implement a curved damage increase for the charged shot like with the Disruptor
• Include a sound effect for charging the shot
• Fully charged shots are always accurate

The rapid fire/charged shot swap has made the gun feel more like its own thing. It no longer feels like an overpowered E11, even if only at Level 2. The charged shot is given more emphasis while also slightly reducing its initial damage output, while keeping the maximum charge damage the same. Currently the damage adds up too fast resulting in high damage with very little charging required. These changes just nudge us more towards making the gun feel as punchy as it felt like in Episode 7.

EE3

• Sniper shot damage decreased from 100 to 90

The sniper shot damage is reduced slightly to emphasize shots that land on the chest and head.

Disruptor

• Primary shots pass through targets
• Increase reload time by 20%

The non-scoped mode gets a fun feature that should make it an interesting option in a tight hallway. The Disruptor reloads very fast and this leaves very small timing windows for enemies to relocate and suppress. Increasing reload time should make sniping a more responsible decision.

Melee

• Legsweep no longer knocks down if the target is crouching

This behaviour inconsistent and the legsweep has a very large hitbox, so knocking down players with it is not exactly as thrilling and skillful as it should be. Now players have some counterplay against it.

Poison Dart

• Reduce duration by 33%

Poison can feel like a very frustrating ability when stacked as it forces a player out of the fight. It also grants the Bountyhunter a long timing window for pressure or even securing the kill. This change should increase significance of landing consecutive darts and gives the Bountyhunter less time to capitalize.

That was a lot more than I expected. Please take your time to read and think about these changes. As said above, none of them are set in stone and are more-so starting points rather than final values.

We would love to hear your thoughts. What sounds good? What sounds bad? Why? I am fond of all of these changes and truly believe they make the game more nuanced without feeling too heavy-handed. I am sure we'll disagree on some of the more drastic points, but I would love to see you also highlight which of the changes make the game better even if you feel strongly against some other features.

 

[Preston]

It's not making Proj. useless... Its just making it less of an Assault Tool and more of a Support Tool like it should be.

Its making it like disruptor, a defensive tool. With these change pop sniping will be gone, it will just become a worse version of disruptor.

 

[Chocorope]

Its making it like disruptor, a defensive tool. With these change pop sniping will be gone, it will just become a worse version of disruptor.

Tbh Disruptor deserve some ❤, it should actually be beter than Proj.Rifle considering that...

1: Its been in JKGames for so much longer
2: Also is a much more advanced type of tech. lore wise

Right now, since a looooong time, barely no one bother to use the Disruptor because Proj. like you said is pop sniping and all of its feature make it much more of a viable, safer option then the Disruptor.

 

[Preston]

Tbh Disruptor deserve some ❤, it should actually be beter than Proj.Rifle considering that...

1: Its been in JKGames for so much longer
2: Also is a much more advanced type of tech. lore wise

Right now, since a looooong time, barely no one bother to use the Disruptor because Proj. like you said is pop sniping and all of its feature make it much more of a viable, safer option then the Disruptor.

This is MB2. This isn't about lore and tech. This is about balance as a game. For the past 7 or so years I've been playing Proj has been the similar to it is now. It should not be a defensive weapon only. As it is now, it is an assault tool, and a defensive one. If you want to nerf Proj, do it in another way. Don't mess with its accuracy like that.
And I agree, Disruptor could and should get a buff.

 

[Chocorope]

Its making it like disruptor, a defensive tool. With these change pop sniping will be gone, it will just become a worse version of disruptor.

A viable option could be to remove greatly the amount of ammo you can have for the Proj.Rifle while keeping its pop sniping features, this would make you think twice on who you want to waste your precious ammo on, and missing shots would then be a very, bery, beery bad thing.

Chance are if you only have 6 bullets, you'll keep these precious ones solely for the most important targets.

Which would naturally give some room to breath for the lesser important targets, like little Soldiers.

It would also naturally make you stay in place for longer to focus on the good targets, instead of right now, forcing it via this new Focus Mechanic.

All that being said, I still feel like the Disruptor would deserve some little tweaks to make it of a real, viable option, to the cost of more point, of course, but also available for both teams.

 

[Preston]

A viable option could be to remove greatly the amount of ammo you can have for the Proj.Rifle while keeping its pop sniping features, this would make you think twice on who you want to waste your precious ammo on, and missing shots would then be a very, bery, beery bad thing.

Chance are if you only have 6 bullets, you'll keep these precious ones solely for the most important targets.

Which would naturally give some room to breath for the lesser important targets, like little Soldiers.

It would also naturally make you stay in place for longer to focus on the good targets, instead of right now, forcing it via this new Focus Mechanic.

All that being said, I still feel like the Disruptor would deserve some little tweaks to make it of a real, viable option, to the cost of more point, of course, but also available for both teams.

6 shots. haha thats funny

 

[Chocorope]

6 shots. haha thats funny

Well, Its not if you are a sharp, skilled shooter which aint missing shots.

You that talk about balance... You think that 20 one shot bullets is fair for all the others?

The sole truth about why you dont love Devs changes, or mine, are simply because it would now ruin abit of your fun, instead of right now, ruining the fun of every others with your AWP gun.

You only think about your self here, I'd also bet a finger you also only play with that one gun... And all of this is a grand, nasty attack to your sole pleasure of owning freely everyones.

A game should be fun and fair for everyone.

 

[Preston]

Well, Its not if you are a sharp, skilled shooter which aint missing shots.

You that talk about balance... You think that 20 one shot bullets is fair for all the others?

The sole truth about why you dont love these changes are simply because it would now ruin abit of your fun, instead of right now, ruining the fun of every others with your AWP gun.

You only think about your self here.

I'd bet a finger you also only play with that one gun... And all of this is an attack to your sole pleasure of owning freely everyones.

A game should be fun and fair for everyone.

You would lose your finger. I don't have to worry about your suggestions anyways. No developer would ever consider giving 6 shots.

 

[Chocorope]

That's some passive aggressive butthurt reply

I love you .. Hug inbound ❤

 

[Preston]

That's some passive aggressive butthurt reply

I love you .. Hug inbound ❤

Don't attack and not expect it back.

 

[Chocorope]

By the way, I was imaginating it more like...

Ammo1: 6 bullets / 6 kills
Ammo2: 7 bullets / 7 kills
Ammo3: 8 bullets / 8 kills

If your good you really dont need more then that, 8 is actually pretty, pretty huge considering the one shots potential.

Keep in mind thats only for 1 sniper players, there's usually 3 per team which make it for a total of 24 one shot bullets per 5minutes.

Its incredibly op and unfair for most other class.

 

[Preston]

By the way, I was imaginating it more like...

Ammo1: 6 bullets / 6 kills
Ammo2: 7 bullets / 7 kills
Ammo3: 8 bullets / 8 kills

If your good you really dont need more then that, 8 is actually pretty, pretty huge considering the one shots potential.

Keep in mind thats only for 1 sniper players, there's usually 3 per team which make it for a total of 24 one shot bullets per 5minutes.

Its incredibly op and unfair for most other class.

No it isn't. This conversation is pointless and is going nowhere. My point stands than Proj does not need adjustments.

 

[Chocorope]

Would you agree that with 6 to 8 bullets, you would naturally focus on important targets and take your time between shots?

Thats actually naturally balancing it, instead of forcing it via new mechanics.

It would be quite an update for soldiers/commanders, making it more popular I think, since they'd have more room to play.

Now if you want to waste these on soldiers its your choice, but then important targets like SBDs and Sith/Mandos or others BH would become a treat.

It feels pretty decent imo

 

[Preston]

Would you agree that with 6 to 8 bullets, you would naturally focus on important targets and take your time between shots?

Thats actually naturally balancing it, instead of forcing it via new mechanics.

It would be quite an update for soldiers/commanders, making it more popular I think, since they'd have more room to play.

Now if you want to waste these on soldiers its your choice, but then important targets like SBDs and Sith/Mandos or others BH would become a treat.

It feels pretty decent imo

1st of all. There is no reason to balance something that is balanced. Commander is already one of the better and easier classes. Soldier is quite good too, if not better with nades. Now please can we stop going in circles. This is a pointless discussion.

 

[SomeGuy]

I like a lot of these ideas. So here's my input, if I don't mention it that means it looks like a good change to me.

For Blast from the Past Concs: Maybe have a secondary fire that can charge without cooking so you can try for those impacts better.

EE3: If possible somehow make sniper mode use seperate ammo.

Legsweep Nerf: Bad idea in my opinion since it was only way to counter crouchers. Besides if you crouch and block at the same time it blocks it.

Poison Darts: If you shorten the duration then there need to be more darts available. 3 is already very limited and it is one of the few things that can force a Jedi to commit to a fight.

Clone: That blob thing looks okay but I'd say to go farther with clone. I made a thread about it over in Feedback.

Something I have always thought is that crouching to stop kicks/slaps doesn't really make sense logically. It's a legacy mechanic really. It hits them in the face when you see it. It's pretty bad how a J/S can just crouch up to a melee wookiee or SBD and it's game over. Instead of knocking them over though, make kick/slap versus crouchers knock them backwards. And speaking of those two classes SBD should be able to knock over Str 3 wooks.

 

[Chocorope]

1st of all. There is no reason to balance something that is balanced. Commander is already one of the better and easier classes. Soldier is quite good too, if not better with nades. Now please can we stop going in circles. This is a pointless discussion.

I'm sorry to say, but you're actually the one person being pointless to have a conversation with, you only and solely see your side of the page and doesn't seem to want to see any others approaches, any compromise other than the ones that give you a large advantage, or having some slight changes on the way you approach the gameplay.

That being said, I'll close this here for I'm actually the one that doesnt feel talking with you anymore.

Its like having a conversation with my self.

Still hope you'll have a good day

 

[Preston]

I'm sorry to say, but you're actually the one person being pointless to have a conversation with, you only and solely see your side of the page and doesn't seem to want to see any others approaches, any compromise other than the ones that give you a large advantage, or having some slight changes on the way you approach the gameplay.

That being said, I'll close this here for I'm actually the one that doesnt feel talking with you anymore.

Its like having a conversation with my self.

Still hope you'll have a good day

There is no reason to compromise with something that isn't broken. That a extremely weak point to bring that up. End of conversation.

 

[Gargos]

@Preston at first I thought like you about proj until I realized that after 1,5 secs or so the proj would be 100 percent accurate even while moving. That would be pretty cool and would add more skill to pop upping. Also wouldnt make a difference when aiming a stationary object since it would still be there in the same spot (ruptor camper for example), you already have to wait the delay. What makes this interesting is that you could quick scope with proj with this change, so face snipes would happen.

And buff ruptor? Sounds like a bad joke to me.

 

[Preston]

@Preston at first I thought like you about proj until I realized that after 1,5 secs or so the proj would be 100 percent accurate even while moving. That would be pretty cool and would add more skill to pop upping. Also wouldnt make a difference when aiming a stationary object since it would still be there in the same spot (ruptor camper for example), you already have to wait the delay. What makes this interesting is that you could quick scope with proj with this change, so face snipes would happen.

And buff ruptor? Sounds like a bad joke to me.

I did not realize that. That seems much more reasonable. I'm still trying to see the logic in what this would accomplish though?

 

[Chocorope]

I like a lot of these ideas. So here's my input, if I don't mention it that means it looks like a good change to me.

For Blast from the Past Concs: Maybe have a secondary fire that can charge without cooking so you can try for those impacts better.

EE3: If possible somehow make sniper mode use seperate ammo.

Legsweep Nerf: Bad idea in my opinion since it was only way to counter crouchers. Besides if you crouch and block at the same time it blocks it.

Poison Darts: If you shorten the duration then there need to be more darts available. 3 is already very limited and it is one of the few things that can force a Jedi to commit to a fight.

Clone: That blob thing looks okay but I'd say to go farther with clone. I made a thread about it over in Feedback.

Something I have always thought is that crouching to stop kicks/slaps doesn't really make sense logically. It's a legacy mechanic really. It hits them in the face when you see it. It's pretty bad how a J/S can just crouch up to a melee wookiee or SBD and it's game over. Instead of knocking them over though, make kick/slap versus crouchers knock them backwards. And speaking of those two classes SBD should be able to knock over Str 3 wooks.

I've actually had a nice idea for a new Dart Tempest even seem to like, here on my diary

Hardcore Battle! MB2 Idea's Diary (Revisited Class, Blaster, New deflection, Darts & more )

I'll save you the scroll tho.



I've called it ''Midi-Chlorians Analysis Dart''

When a Midi-Chlorians Analysis Dart is successfully being landed on a Jedi, it would give the Bounty Hunter the ability to see how is the Force flowing through the Jedi!

It would operate via a new Blue Glowing Animation, which would glow brighter the higher the Force is flowing into the opponent!


It would also indicate to the Bounty Hunter when the scanned Jedi is using Force Abilities by making the Blue Glow Animations surrounded by an outer/separted layer, or flash of Green color!



So for exemple... If the Jedi is being scanned, hes surrounded by the Blue Glow.

- If the Jedi use push...
- The Bounty Hunter can see a quick flash of Green surrounding the Blue Shell.

- If the Jedi use Force Vision...
-The Jedi is being surrounded by a constant, flowing outer Green Shell around the Blue one!

Basicaly to make it simple, Its a Dart that let you see the ForcePoint of the Jedi.

There was more, but i wont bother writing it here for it was in relation with some others stuff/mechanics that wouldnt apply right now unless my others changes are also applyed, but the main idea is here.

 

[Preston]

@Gargos wait wait, I re read what you just said. Does that mean you would still be perfectly accurate while moving? Unlike how it is now? As in you run and the shot wouldn't veer off?