Adjustments to General Gameplay

For the past couple months we have been gathering up ideas and thoughts on how to alter some values to reduce critical breakpoints in the gameplay experience while still staying true to MB2's signature feel. Before even trying them out, we would like to see some discussion on the potential implications and if there are some controversial changes in the mix. None of these changes are final and surely not all of them will ever see the light of day, but many of these ideas attempt to address issues that particularly new players might feel are frustrating.

Note that these changes do not focus on Saber vs Saber mechanics as that is explored elsewhere in Tempest's tweak threads.

General mechanics

• Getup from knockdown activates 0.5-1 second sooner for single life classes
  
• Getup animation from knockdowns changed to a sped up Soldier getup animation while on the ground (mid-air getup is still current coinflip)
• Can't hack objectives while on fire
• All single life classes can sideroll upon knockdown except SBD
  
• Sonic detonator stuns count as assists
• Incendiary Grenade flames stop dealing TK points after being lit for 5 seconds
  
• Assist TKs can be punished
• A primed grenade will tick passively to alert for corner camps

These changes would be focused towards reducing frustration, fixing oversights and small changes to make the game look a bit better. The most significant of these are the changes to how knockdowns look and feel.

Currently the knockdown is a very powerful mechanic that creates tension during a fight and allows for powerful crowd control abilities to be potent. It is one of the big things that sets MB2 apart from everything else. However it can prove very frustrating and can feel unavoidable for the less experienced players. By slightly reducing the time it takes for the getup and giving additional control over your destiny, we hope to alleviate general frustration while slightly reducing the game-ending impact of a knockdown.

All primed grenades will tick similar to Concussion Grenades to allow players to detect corner ambushes more reliably. This will also help players read the battlefield better as they can now determine if a grenade has been primed or not without having to hear the priming beeps.

The Force:

• Pull vulnerability frames changed to match Push
• Push costs changed from 2-2-8 to 2-4-8. Single target knockdown added for Push 2.
  
• Lightning only stuns for the frames that it hits
• FP drains are no longer capped when not blocking

These changes to the way the Force works are slight tweaks to reduce frustrating behaviour in Pull and Lightning. There was a big cool factor in hitting snipes on Jedi/Sith who were playing carelessly, so we would like to bring that back.

Push 3 is generally perceived to be very powerful and easy to use considering its utility. We are thinking of an indirect nerf by making it cost 2 points more to access. Boosting Push 2 would encourage players to save points for other abilities as long as they are comfortable with aiming at their intended targets. People who can do single-target pushing reliably will be able to do so with less points. However, if someone wants to be a crowd control powerhouse, that is still possible, just with an added cost.

Lightsaber

• Passive deflects should never fly behind the deflecter
• Increase Flinch range to match Close IDR for better consistency
• Staff/Duals cost to 0
• Staff/Duals defense arc to match regular stances

These behavioural changes explain themselves for most part. Staff and Duals are made more accessible, but they lose their defensive bonus. Flinch becomes more reliable and both players can expect a specific result when getting shot.

Frag Grenade

• Secondary throw FP drain removed

Knockdown is already punishing enough. It also feels inconsistent as it is the only explosive that does this.

Clone Rifle

• Reduce velocity of both blobs by 15%

The Clone Rifle's blob blasts have become very fast over the course of the years almost sneakily. This has removed a certain feeling of pride and accomplishment from landing air blobs on mandalorians. This also reduces the game ending power the Blob currently holds over Jedi/Sith.

Concussion Grenade

• Direct hits explode on impact dealing extra damage (10-20 HP)

Bring back some of the old Primary Grenade feel to the Soldier class while giving the Double Conc Build a bit more oomph.

Projectile Rifle

• Remove firing delay while scoping
• Introduce focus mechanic: Stand still for 1.5s to fire a 100% accurate shot. Visually decrease crosshair size in the same fashion as EE3 until accuracy achieved
• Adjust ammo available per level 8-12-18

Give the Projectile Rifle back its possibility of quickscoping, but create a requirement of having a setup for making clear shots. Ammo amounts available are also tweaked to make sniping a more conscious decision as it cannot be done wastefully.

Westar M5

• Increase sniper ammo cost so that the clip can fit 1 less sniper shot
• Decrease sniper shot base damage by 3

The M5 is largely where it needs to be, but being able to fire so many shots in succession reduces the feeling of every shot counting. In similar fashion the base damage would be decreased just slightly to emphasize the importance of landing two consecutive shots for the kill.

Bowcaster

• Implement a curved damage increase for the charged shot like with the Disruptor
• Include a sound effect for charging the shot
• Fully charged shots are always accurate

The rapid fire/charged shot swap has made the gun feel more like its own thing. It no longer feels like an overpowered E11, even if only at Level 2. The charged shot is given more emphasis while also slightly reducing its initial damage output, while keeping the maximum charge damage the same. Currently the damage adds up too fast resulting in high damage with very little charging required. These changes just nudge us more towards making the gun feel as punchy as it felt like in Episode 7.

EE3

• Sniper shot damage decreased from 100 to 90

The sniper shot damage is reduced slightly to emphasize shots that land on the chest and head.

Disruptor

• Primary shots pass through targets
• Increase reload time by 20%

The non-scoped mode gets a fun feature that should make it an interesting option in a tight hallway. The Disruptor reloads very fast and this leaves very small timing windows for enemies to relocate and suppress. Increasing reload time should make sniping a more responsible decision.

Melee

• Legsweep no longer knocks down if the target is crouching

This behaviour inconsistent and the legsweep has a very large hitbox, so knocking down players with it is not exactly as thrilling and skillful as it should be. Now players have some counterplay against it.

Poison Dart

• Reduce duration by 33%

Poison can feel like a very frustrating ability when stacked as it forces a player out of the fight. It also grants the Bountyhunter a long timing window for pressure or even securing the kill. This change should increase significance of landing consecutive darts and gives the Bountyhunter less time to capitalize.

That was a lot more than I expected. Please take your time to read and think about these changes. As said above, none of them are set in stone and are more-so starting points rather than final values.

We would love to hear your thoughts. What sounds good? What sounds bad? Why? I am fond of all of these changes and truly believe they make the game more nuanced without feeling too heavy-handed. I am sure we'll disagree on some of the more drastic points, but I would love to see you also highlight which of the changes make the game better even if you feel strongly against some other features.

 

[Smee]

Seriously? Nerf Jedi and Sith even more?
What the h*ck is going on with the development of this mod? Just f*cking remove Jedi and Sith i you are going to keep making them worse and worse and worse, it would be a more honest move.
Also lol at all these players who have been on mb2 for a week giving advice on game-breaking mechanics.
Also lol at the foot-suckers who praise every decision the devs make, even praising when they revert a stupid decision (about as common as a blue moon) that they previously cheer-led for.

 

[Nex]

Seriously? Nerf Jedi and Sith even more?
What the h*ck is going on with the development of this mod? Just f*cking remove Jedi and Sith i you are going to keep making them worse and worse and worse, it would be a more honest move.
Also lol at all these players who have been on mb2 for a week giving advice on game-breaking mechanics.
Also lol at the foot-suckers who praise every decision the devs make, even praising when they revert a stupid decision (about as common as a blue moon) that they previously cheer-led for.

Exactly. Not to mention half of these changes are completely unnecessery. Game is quite balanced as it is now. I'm also surprised there's not a single word about Clone's Ion blast nerf. This shit has been on absurd op level for years. Fully charged ion blast stuns for 5 whole damn seconds and is able to kill any imp class with no effort. Nerfing ions should be number one priority.
But no, instead they would rather nerf jedi/sith even further. There will be no damn reason to pick light lvl 1 or 2 as it becomes completely useless. Since ridiculous grip lvl 1/2 nerf I resigned from it and I go for lightning lvl 2 every time but it seems I will have to give up lightning now as well. Seriously. What the hell. Freaking /facepalm. RiP sith's forcepowers.

 

[MaceMadunusus]

Game is quite balanced as it is now. I'm also surprised there's not a single word about Clone's Ion blast nerf. This shit has been on absurd op level for years.

There are some things Ben removed last minute as we aren't done discussing some things internally. Even if something isn't mentioned here doesn't mean it isnt being looked at in some form.

If we need to we can buff Jedi/Sith in other areas to compensate for some of these changes (Like say for example instead of stun on lightning adding more slow.) The idea behind the changes is making it less frustrating to be on the receiving end of some of these abilities. As some of them can just completely fuck you over when used properly and there isn't much you can do. There isn't really counter play and it isn't fun. A balance is needed.

Instead of flaming you guys could help out by suggesting some buffs in the opposite direction that help keep the abilities powerful, while not making it really frustrating to be on the receiving end of.

 

[Subaru]

Overall, I like. Why not let proj move while charging and change the timer to X seconds since scope\last shot? This would bring it in line with Overwatch and TF2's sniper rifles.

 

[Liniyka_xddd]

Oh shit, I just realized...

No scope fire delay on proj + no FP drain cap while running = TIME TO QUICKSCOPE THOSE FILTHY SABERISTS

 

[Nex]

If we need to we can buff Jedi/Sith in other areas to compensate for some of these changes (Like say for example instead of stun on lightning adding more slow.) The idea behind the changes is making it less frustrating to be on the receiving end of some of these abilities. As some of them can just completely fuck you over when used properly and there isn't much you can do. There isn't really counter play and it isn't fun. A balance is needed.

Instead of flaming you guys could help out by suggesting some buffs in the opposite direction that help keep the abilities powerful, while not making it really frustrating to be on the receiving end of.

How are we flaming...
Removing stun from lightning is the most ridiculous idea I can think of. Stun is the essence of lightning and the whole idea behind it. Please explain to me in logical way, how is lightning lvl 1 gonna be useful once you implement this nerf? Just how? Make sense guys please because this is getting out of hand completely. You want to remove the core mechanics of force powers that have been here since 2006. (Not to mention you already did that with grip lvl 1 and 2).
Also, you say there's no counter to it. Really? Clone and ARC = stamina 2, Wook = str 3, Hero - dash and very fast movement, ET - keep distance and strafe jump (if you can actually play the game then by the time sith gets close to you, he should have his fp drained below 50 fp so he's unable to use ligtning anymore). Sold is the only vulnerable and stands no chance but it's understandable and logical. There's much more ways to avoid lightning still.
If you remove stun from lightning you gonna make all Sith's force powers completely useless and leave this class handicapped unless you go for level 3 on both grip and lightning. Don't make changes for newbies that cry and whine. Just because they can't counter simple mechanics doesn't mean it should be nerfed, jesus christ.. It means they should learn how to play the game.
Anyway, you want my suggestion? Leave force powers on both sides alone. Period. It's been tweaked way too many times. You devs just want to push hard for changes that are not needed at all.

 

[MaceMadunusus]

How are we flaming...

"foot-suckers who praise every decision the devs make, even praising when they revert a stupid decision"

^

This crap isn't good feedback in the slightest.

Removing stun from lightning is the most ridiculous idea I can think of. Stun is the essence of lightning and the whole idea behind it.

I think you need to re-read what Ben posted. The stun still exists, you just can't tap it for an EZ kill anymore.

 

[Nex]

"foot-suckers who praise every decision the devs make, even praising when they revert a stupid decision"

^

This crap isn't good feedback in the slightest..

I never said such a thing. You confuse me with guy above my post.

I think you need to re-read what Ben posted. The stun still exists, you just can't tap it for an EZ kill anymore.

Yes I read it. Stun will work only for the period when you fire lightning. How will that work for you, the attacker, in any way? Please explain. How do you imagine lightning lvl 1 as a helpful tool in 1v1 now? You can only fire it for a brief moment of time, it does almost zero damage and when you implement that nerf it won't even stun. Makes sense /sarcasm. Complete useless garbage force power. It's better to just remove it as whole. It won't server any purpose any more.
Instead trying to be a cocky guy, please acknowledge the arguments I presented and admit that nerf idea is silly. Because I challenged your argumentation and proved you that you can indeed counter lightning very easily and you have nothing really interesting to say in return. Only to "re-read" some stuff I already know and to stop flaming (even tho I'm not). I mean, seriously? Is that it?

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

For the past couple months we have been gathering up ideas and thoughts on how to alter some values to reduce critical breakpoints in the gameplay experience while still staying true to MB2's signature feel. Before even trying them out, we would like to see some discussion on the potential implications and if there are some controversial changes in the mix. None of these changes are final and surely not all of them will ever see the light of day, but many of these ideas attempt to address issues that particularly new players might feel are frustrating.

Note that these changes do not focus on Saber vs Saber mechanics as that is explored elsewhere in Tempest's tweak threads.

Alrighty. I like that you're opening it up to discussion before thrusting it on everyone. Good. I will actually just post my feedback as though this patch is coming out tomorrow, though. That way you can capture the outrage and obnoxious complaints that would really be there were this a real patch. Just like the simulations.

General mechanics

• Getup from knockdown activates 0.5-1 second sooner for single life classes
  
• Getup animation from knockdowns changed to a sped up Soldier getup animation while on the ground (mid-air getup is still current coinflip)
• Can't hack objectives while on fire
• All single life classes can sideroll upon knockdown except SBD
  
• Sonic detonator stuns count as assists
• Incendiary Grenade flames stop dealing TK points after being lit for 5 seconds
  
• Assist TKs can be punished
• A primed grenade will tick passively to alert for corner camps

Meh, that's fine, although I don't appreciate the 'getup' buff. Why not just nerf the ridiculous amount of knock-downs in the game? Why not nerf push/pull, and remove blobs/alt frags? If you make knock downs more rare, then you justify the power of them.

Grenade ticking is pretty good, but also useless. Because a good player will just instantly prime and throw.

The Force:

• Pull vulnerability frames changed to match Push
• Push costs changed from 2-2-8 to 2-4-8. Single target knockdown added for Push 2.
  
• Lightning only stuns for the frames that it hits
• FP drains are no longer capped when not blocking

Oh goody. We need to screw over Jedi even more with their expensive force costs, and nerf Lightning even further. No more FP Drain caps? Really?

Do you people some how think that Jedi/Sith are even remotely capable of doing anything but support jedi against decent gunners now? You can't just keep taking shit away from them without improving them in some manner.

Guess I'll just be swapping over to a gunner main in open then.

Lightsaber

• Passive deflects should never fly behind the deflecter
• Increase Flinch range to match Close IDR for better consistency
• Staff/Duals cost to 0
• Staff/Duals defense arc to match regular stances

Oh goody. Force nerf and I get to be flinched harder. Yup, swapping to a gunner main.

I think some where on these forums I have a post about overhauling force powers and Jedi to be more skill-based against gunners, instead of either overpowered or garbage depending on the situation. But I guess no, we need to force Jedi/Sith into a weird camping/shoe-horned support role. Neat.

The BW thing is fine, if you also make the change to the saber system that enables back whacks to happen easier. The problem with backwhacks being prevalent, is how people can run around to the side while spamming swings like WA A SA while doing it, giving them *3 swings* from the same bloody side while simultaneously moving in that direction.

If you re-add swing direction restrictions from 1.3, that solves the BW issue for the most part.

Frag Grenade

• Secondary throw FP drain removed

Why not just remove the secondary throw? What purpose does it serve other than being a better concussion grenade? Just remove the damned thing, because it's either going to be worse than conc and useless, or better than conc and cancer.

Clone Rifle

• Reduce velocity of both blobs by 15%

The equivalent of scraping off the top of a tumor, and leaving it, saying you improved it.

Concussion Grenade

• Direct hits explode on impact dealing extra damage (10-20 HP)

Oh goody, so we have a slightly more difficult to land blob that does more damage?

Projectile Rifle

• Remove firing delay while scoping
• Introduce focus mechanic: Stand still for 1.5s to fire a 100% accurate shot. Visually decrease crosshair size in the same fashion as EE3 until accuracy achieved
• Adjust ammo available per level 8-12-18

Good. This is a good and necessary change. Although you should probably increase the speed of the proj rifle shots, and maybe add bullet drop to them. That way there is less 'guesswork' at trying to hit someone at a distance, and more of a skill factor.

Westar M5

• Increase sniper ammo cost so that the clip can fit 1 less sniper shot
• Decrease sniper shot base damage by 3

Confusing, why not just add the Proj Rifle focus, and increase the damage?

Bowcaster

• Implement a curved damage increase for the charged shot like with the Disruptor
• Include a sound effect for charging the shot
• Fully charged shots are always accurate

Because clearly we need more buffs for Bowcaster charge shot.

EE3

• Sniper shot damage decreased from 100 to 90

Why not just require a focus like the proj rifle, and reduce the ammo count to 1 sniper shot per clip? The focus would actually be a lot easier to deal with on Mando since they can often get to places where they can easily use the focus time properly.

Disruptor

• Primary shots pass through targets
• Increase reload time by 20%

Weird... change... but we'll see.

Melee

• Legsweep no longer knocks down if the target is crouching

So then what the fuck is legsweep supposed to be used for? It's generally not hard to dodge a legsweep if you expect it. You can also block it by crouching in melee, and if you're Jedi/Sith and blocking while standing, it doesn't knockdown. So what the fuck counters crouching? Because you literally just took the only counter to crouching out. Do any of you even melee?

Poison Dart

• Reduce duration by 33%

Ehhhh, okay I guess. Weird but fine. Tbh Poison would be fine if you just had HP Regen OOC, but having something basically *unavoidable* do damage that you will *never* recover from is kind of retarded.





Still no nerf to SBD? No nerf to Clone's flinch-o'-matic rifle?


Over all most of these changes are pointless. The only really good change is the Proj Rifle change, and maybe the general mechanics changes.

 

[MaceMadunusus]

I never said such a thing. You confuse me with guy above my post.

I said "You guys". Was a general statement towards everyone. Not you.

Your "Counters exist" is just essentially being out of range or being faster. That isn't really a counter in this sense IMO. Because that is essentially the counter to everything in the game.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

Exactly. Not to mention half of these changes are completely unnecessery. Game is quite balanced as it is now. I'm also surprised there's not a single word about Clone's Ion blast nerf. This shit has been on absurd op level for years. Fully charged ion blast stuns for 5 whole damn seconds and is able to kill any imp class with no effort. Nerfing ions should be number one priority.
But no, instead they would rather nerf jedi/sith even further. There will be no damn reason to pick light lvl 1 or 2 as it becomes completely useless. Since ridiculous grip lvl 1/2 nerf I resigned from it and I go for lightning lvl 2 every time but it seems I will have to give up lightning now as well. Seriously. What the hell. Freaking /facepalm. RiP sith's forcepowers.

Game is far from balanced. I give you: SBD.

To be honest the game is really quite a chaotic mess that needs overhauls in several departments. Force powers, saber vs gunning, movement, and a couple of classes are all in dire need of attention.

 

[Nex]

I said "You guys". Was a general statement towards everyone. Not you.

Your "Counters exist" is just essentially being out of range or being faster. That isn't really a counter in this sense IMO. Because that is essentially the counter to everything in the game.

No? It's the natural way to counter obvious range offensive force power. What else would you like to have as a counter to it? A /Godmode bubble around you? /Noclip? Seriously. You see a blast or rocket - you avoid it with your movement or roll/jump aside as ARC. That's how you avoid all danger in game. What's the problem? I don't follow your reasoning at all. If you're not good enough in game and fail to counter simple mechanics (even tho I told you how in many ways) then you just gonna nerf the cause? GG.

 

[SeV]

Game is far from balanced. I give you: STD.

To be honest the game is really quite a chaotic mess that needs overhauls in several departments. Force powers, saber vs gunning, movement, and a couple of classes are all in dire need of attention.

Yes. Not even gonna comment about balance though. I'll just say that I had alot more fun playing old open mode than I do new style open mode.
Fun should always be the key since this isn't a triple A heavily funded crap game. MB2 should be a playground for skill and fun and a place to explore the starwars fantasy, so I think that worrying about balancing the game perfectly down to minutiae and thinking of it as a starwars version of counter-strike, is fundamentally wrong.

I'd much rather play an unbalanced, but fun game, rather than be stuck with sabering that is a grind, and open mode that is a grind.

Edit: To clarify, I think gameplay should be fast and smooth and less bogged down by small stupid things. It's like MB2 gameplay has constipation.

 

[Nex]

Game is far from balanced. I give you: SBD.

To be honest the game is really quite a chaotic mess that needs overhauls in several departments. Force powers, saber vs gunning, movement, and a couple of classes are all in dire need of attention.

Discussing with you has proven to be unproductive in the last thread we spoke few weeks ago, as you can't actually play the game from what I read. So no point in refering to what you say on any matter.

 

[Gargos]

Many changes sound fine to me tbh. I am always up for jedi/sith nerfs since as a main saberist I often feel like things are too easy, I like the challenge. Some sound quite drastic indeed and I have a feeling some knockdown methods on saberists needs a nerf especially blobs since I can see clones 100 percent dominate sith with these changes. Also the 2ndary nerf sounds good. I wouldnt touch the fp dmg too much since I fear it may nerf saberist a bit too much since flinch will get a buff (or more like be fixed).

1 change I truly dislike is proj, I see nothing wrong with it atm. Why make proj a watered down ruptor, doesnt make any sense. Proj is a strong counter to ruptor but wont be anymore after this.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

Yes. Not even gonna comment about balance though. I'll just say that I had alot more fun playing old open mode than I do new style open mode.
Fun should always be the key since this isn't a triple A heavily funded crap game. MB2 should be a playground for skill and fun and a place to explore the starwars fantasy, so I think that worrying about balancing the game perfectly down to minutiae and thinking of it as a starwars version of counter-strike, is fundamentally wrong.

I'd much rather play an unbalanced, but fun game, rather than be stuck with sabering that is a grind, and open mode that is a grind.

Edit: To clarify, I think gameplay should be fast and smooth and less bogged down by small stupid things. It's like MB2 gameplay has constipation.

The thing is, balancing the game wouldn't really take that much effort. I also want it to be fun, and I think the best method to achieve that is to make everything take skill and offer more play-style variation to the players.

 

[SeV]

Many changes sound fine to me tbh. I am always up for jedi/sith nerfs since as a main saberist I often feel like things are too easy, I like the challenge. Some sound quite drastic indeed and I have a feeling some knockdown methods on saberists needs a nerf especially blobs since I can see clones 100 percent dominate sith with these changes. Also the 2ndary nerf sounds good. I wouldnt touch the fp dmg too much since I fear it may nerf saberist a bit too much since flinch will get a buff (or more like be fixed).

1 change I truly dislike is proj, I see nothing wrong with it atm. Why make proj a watered down ruptor, doesnt make any sense. Proj is a strong counter to ruptor but wont be anymore after this.

Tbh I would like to see shotgun proj brought back into gameplay and perhaps have sense 3 be the hard counter to snipers for jedi/sith so instead of dying they activate a dodge and get a big FP drain similar to current close range drains or smth. Oh and inb4 arbitrary add proj to mando comment, or is that getting too old now?

For me, I would like to see a more volatile system in general, where FP drains and gains are alot faster and a skilled gunner can kill a noob jedi in seconds, not waste half a minute shooting block on a non moving jedi... Dafuq design?

Jedi can block blaster bolts, but it chunks FP, but FP regens fast. Much more volatile and interesting system with more opportunity for skilled jedi to dodge and work around it. Also increases force use in general which I think is a huge issue with jedi/sith not being fun vs gunners. (They are a fucking force user, yet if you use force you destroy your slow FP pool. It works so much better with a more volatile force pool).

And if a jedi gets facehug range on a gunner, there is no reason why he shouldn't have a massive advantage. It shouldn't be cancerous to swing at a gunner when you are a melee class. If we make it so gunners can actually drain FP with aim, and jedi can actually regen FP with manual dodge and maneuvering, and shots deal good dmg to jedi and maybe put the knockback into the game again or smth...then I think I will have much more fun in open mode.

 

[MaceMadunusus]

You see a blast or rocket - you avoid it with your movement or roll/jump aside as ARC. That's how you avoid all danger in game. What's the problem? I don't follow your reasoning at all. If you're not good enough in game and fail to counter simple mechanics (even tho I told you how in many ways) then you just gonna nerf the cause? GG.

Every time I have had lightning used against me recently, it has been unavoidable. It isn't like a rocket or a grenade I can move away from because I can hear it coming, or see it coming. Its some jedi hiding gripped up in a corner randomly that has seeing, when I can't possibly know they're there. They jump down, stun me by tapping a button. You can't really counter that because its just guessing someone is there, or guessing which angle someones going to come from. I check corners and stuff frequently (not all the time). Most of the time that happens to me anyway I am not playing the classes you listed and while yes those classes make it easier to deal with, it still doesn't make it fun to be on the receiving end of. It requires almost zero skill to pull off. I personally didn't suggest this change either. Just for clarity.

If your experience is different then fine, whatever. I am telling you mine.

 

[Nex]

Every time I have had lightning used against me recently, it has been unavoidable. It isn't like a rocket or a grenade I can move away from because I can hear it coming, or see it coming. Its some jedi hiding gripped up in a corner randomly that has seeing, when I can't possibly know they're there. They jump down, stun me by tapping a button. You can't really counter that because its just guessing someone is there, or guessing which angle someones going to come from. I check corners and stuff frequently (not all the time).

The only circumstance lightning isn't avoidable is when you get caught by surprise or ninja'd. If you get lightning stunned while being aware Sith's position and let him come so close with so much fp to perform that combo then you need to play a game a bit more. I basically never get killed by lightning stun because I know what to expect in every scenario. That comes with experience obviously and that's the whole point of playing the game, isn't it? To learn from your mistakes, right? Try that for once instead suggesting ridiculous nonsense nerfs. That's litereally breaking the system to suit your wishes and needs.

Most of the time that happens to me anyway I am not playing the classes you listed and while yes those classes make it easier to deal with, it still doesn't make it fun to be on the receiving end of. It requires almost zero skill to pull off.

Then perhaps it's about time to try them out as they have natural immunity to stun like Wookiee with STR 3 for instance (now that requires skills! huh!). But I guess that's not a counter for you too, right? That's what this game is all about you know, coming up with strats, picking different classes when the current ones ain't working. Needless to say, it's still silly excuse as you really can counter lightning as any class except sold as mentioned earlier. You can't possibly get killed by lightning stun as Clone or ARC either, you can move backwards faster than they move toward you even when being under ligntining effect having stamina 2. Sith has no chance to reach you. And hero... the best class to counter Sith there is. Snipe him when he runs = 50fp less (and already unable to use lightning), then just finish him with 5-6 primary E-11 shots. I still can't figure out what's your problem. Only complete clueless newbies die to lightning stun in 1v1 combat if you want me to be fair.

 

[Rosh+]

Green = Good.
Orange = Ehhh...
Red = Bad.

General mechanics

• Getup from knockdown activates 0.5-1 second sooner for single life classes ~ This is fine.
  
• Getup animation from knockdowns changed to a sped up Soldier getup animation while on the ground (mid-air getup is still current coinflip) ~ This too.
  
• Can't hack objectives while on fire ~ Yep, that's good
  
• All single life classes can sideroll upon knockdown except SBD ~ Seems okay to me.
  
• Sonic detonator stuns count as assists ~ That's a dang diddly good thing. Yup.
  
• Incendiary Grenade flames stop dealing TK points after being lit for 5 seconds ~ I don't see how this would cause much TKing, so It's good.
  
• Assist TKs can be punished ~ Gonna need some clarification on how this works. Description of change is vague.
  
• A primed grenade will tick passively to alert for corner camps ~ I don't really see the point.

The Force:

• Pull vulnerability frames changed to match Push ~ This is perfectly fine, given I don't use lightsabers.
  
• Push costs changed from 2-2-8 to 2-4-8. Single target knockdown added for Push 2. ~ No on former, will explain below.
  
• Lightning only stuns for the frames that it hits ~ Clarification on how this would work is needed.
  
• FP drains are no longer capped when not blocking ~ It's okay cause I don't care. I don't use sabers.

Spoiler

In the case of the above quote, I actually went and looked at point costs upon seeing this, and it actually makes full Lightning Whore impossible, as you only have one point left over after getting both Lightning 3 and the top 3 base Force Abilities. You'd have to up the points given to the player in order to make Lightning Whore a thing again, and that would make the change pointless.

stupid change / 10.

Lightsaber

• Passive deflects should never fly behind the deflecter ~ ye is gud.
  
• Increase Flinch range to match Close IDR for better consistency ~ WOW THATS PRETTY GOOD.
  
• Staff/Duals cost to 0 ~ Whatever.
  
• Staff/Duals defense arc to match regular stances ~ gud!

Frag Grenade

• Secondary throw FP drain removed ~ ye oke.

Clone Rifle

• Reduce velocity of both blobs by 15% ~ Good, should make it a little teensy bit harder to hit somebody across main, now.

Concussion Grenade

• Direct hits explode on impact dealing extra damage (10-20 HP) ~ ok

Projectile Rifle

• Remove firing delay while scoping ~ Sure, bring back cover pop-sniping.
  
• Introduce focus mechanic: Stand still for 1.5s to fire a 100% accurate shot. Visually decrease crosshair size in the same fashion as EE3 until accuracy achieved ~ Eh..
  
• Adjust ammo available per level 8-12-18 ~ Don't really snipe much, so I don't have frame of reference from which to give an opinion on this one.

Westar M5

• Increase sniper ammo cost so that the clip can fit 1 less sniper shot ~ y tho?
  
• Decrease sniper shot base damage by 3 ~ y tho?

Bowcaster

• Implement a curved damage increase for the charged shot like with the Disruptor ~ Sure.
  
• Include a sound effect for charging the shot ~ Why? Every Bowcaster level under 3 is already nerfed enough, and the change in of itself is pointless given that any Wookiee player that's not braindead would rather camp and switch to melee than take potshots at a target moving towards them.
  
• Fully charged shots are always accurate ~ Yup.

EE3

• Sniper shot damage decreased from 100 to 90 ~ Why? EE-3 survivors are a common sight if they were shot from 90+ HP, some even survive headshots. Let EE-3 keep it's current damage.

Disruptor

• Primary shots pass through targets ~ Uncharged primary fire*
  
• Increase reload time by 20% ~ Why?

Melee

• Legsweep no longer knocks down if the target is crouching ~ I got the intense feeling that none of you guys actively try to use melee in open or any other game mode. Legsweep is easily avoidable and it's one of the easiest moves by a guy using melee to predict, there is literally no reason to enforce a nerf like this. Achilles before me has noted the main reasons why this is a stupid idea.

Poison Dart

• Reduce duration by 33% ~ Why? Duration is already pretty short as it is.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

Tbh I would like to see shotgun proj brought back into gameplay and perhaps have sense 3 be the hard counter to snipers for jedi/sith so instead of dying they activate a dodge and get a big FP drain similar to current close range drains or smth. Oh and inb4 arbitrary add proj to mando comment, or is that getting too old now?

For me, I would like to see a more volatile system in general, where FP drains and gains are alot faster and a skilled gunner can kill a noob jedi in seconds, not waste half a minute shooting block on a non moving jedi... Dafuq design?

Jedi can block blaster bolts, but it chunks FP, but FP regens fast. Much more volatile and interesting system with more opportunity for skilled jedi to dodge and work around it. Also increases force use in general which I think is a huge issue with jedi/sith not being fun vs gunners. (They are a fucking force user, yet if you use force you destroy your slow FP pool. It works so much better with a more volatile force pool).

And if a jedi gets facehug range on a gunner, there is no reason why he shouldn't have a massive advantage. It shouldn't be cancerous to swing at a gunner when you are a melee class. If we make it so gunners can actually drain FP with aim, and jedi can actually regen FP with manual dodge and maneuvering, and shots deal good dmg to jedi and maybe put the knockback into the game again or smth...then I think I will have much more fun in open mode.

You should see what John made with my input. Basically super high damages and a blocking system that regenerated super fast from blaster shots. Rate of fire = penetrating Jedi's defenses with consistent hits in a matter of 2-3 seconds. So higher damage weapons were used more defensively against Jedi (as they couldn't get through the block) but higher rate of fire weapons could be used aggressively against Jedi. All weapons did the same damage at any distance, so you could shred a Jedi from a distance with accurate fire.

It was so much fun to play. It also fixed a lot of balance issues with the higher damages. I also had plans for Jedi vs Gunner combat up close being more skill based.