Why, and bye.

[Tempest]

@Rajive
Your second point is actually more or less part of the intended design for class limits but I don't believe it's feasible/possible in the form of an external script (as it is now). Also on the note of a class being available, the deciding factor for how someone is removed from a class is a very large point of debate/contention. That needs to be figured out (by both the devs and the community) before any official form of class limits gets integrated into MB2.

@LoU
I don't know you too well, personally. However, I will never downplay the efforts you've put into MB2 (launcher/any kind of external stuff being integrated into JKA is a huge mess that deserves a medal for actually succeeding to the degree you did). I'm too tired and limited to mobile to go into any fine details but I do hope that you will return some day (especially once dev stuff isn't so sabering-centric; lord knows I'm ready to move onto other things..>_>).

As for the state of the dev team overall...I'm one of the newest devs (as well as this being my first real experience in any kind of actual environment involving a legit dev team) so my perspective might be off. Organization is definitely an issue, both by external observation (as a non-dev community member; that's part of why I originally became one in regards to trying to "save" dueling) as well as first hand experience. It's definitely been improving though. I personally think that part of the issues that have plagued development have arisen from a lack of members with sufficient experience/proper perspective from all parts of the game (i.e Open in terms of gunning vs sabers, sabers vs sabers, dueling, and so on). I don't want to sound full of myself as I'm definitely not the most experienced nor best player by any means but I honestly think that I'm probably one of maybe three devs, if not the only consistent one, that falls into that category. Looking at possible changes, whether they're small QoL things (like m5 ammo tweaks) or larger projects like all the changes to sabering, from viewpoints of each and every one of those and trying to make sure there's no gaps in consideration is something I feel would have kept MB2 much healthier over the years.

We're all human though. We're all trying to do what we think is best for the game. Obviously (as shown by population and community feedback) there's been some major mismatches in that vs what actually ended up being the case for MB2. Everyone just needs to remember that in the end, we all want to keep this gloriously derpy, competitive yet casual, serious yet laid back, mod that we love up and running.

 

[Jorge]

"Change president because your country is poor" solution, never gonna work.

Just create and run proper gameplay "department".

That's how we got Trump xD

Also LoU being overly modest, he was actually pretty much a superhero when those 2 events happen. The amount of work he did was insane.

So thats why spaghetti is amassing all things again so when we need LoU back all we gotta do is blow up mb2 again...sometimes a forrest must have a purging fire before it can be replanted.

lol

 

[Flof]

Thanks LoU for everything, i still have faith in this mod, even though i dont play it. I bet if we played the current version as we did the old ones it wouldnt be too bad, i actually like a lot of the changes

 

[Vizino]

never really talked to you LoU, but you were part of the MBII team and i know you have put in a good amount of contributions in the long run. So Best of luck and fortune for you my friend

 

[KimmyMarin]

this thread has made me sad.

 

[Cultist]

I've been playing this mod on and off since uh... well I still have this from when I first downloaded it:

Back then, you started with 4 points and had to earn more through kills or waiting for the next round, and the servers used to crash every 5-10 minutes, taking away all your progress. But nobody stopped playing, because the gameplay was so fun and unique and the community was made up of people who loved it.

This mod, at its core, is fantastic and always has been. The devs are amazing, especially when you consider what they've had to work with. What's changed is the community, as a result of changes in the culture of gaming and esports as a whole. There are more people now that think competition is the only thing that matters in games, and that the devs have a responsibility to focus on making the game competitive and balanced.

Competition can be fun, of course, but not when it starts to affect the atmosphere of a game like this. I have seen SO MANY new players harassed and driven away from the game over the last few years just because they got lost or couldn't figure out the menus. I have also seen the devs pressured into trying to meet unrealistic standards and being insulted for not getting things just right.

It's hard to remain passionate about something you are working on in your free time when this is what you get for it. If this mod is 'failing', it's because we as a community have failed it, not the developers. Please try to remember why you liked this game in the first place, and help other people enjoy it too, because LoU is a huge loss already, and it is only going to get worse.

 

[KimmyMarin]

I've been playing this mod on and off since uh... well I still have this from when I first downloaded it:

Back then, you started with 4 points and had to earn more through kills or waiting for the next round, and the servers used to crash every 5-10 minutes, taking away all your progress. But nobody stopped playing, because the gameplay was so fun and unique and the community was made up of people who loved it.

This mod, at its core, is fantastic and always has been. The devs are amazing, especially when you consider what they've had to work with. What's changed is the community, as a result of changes in the culture of gaming and esports as a whole. There are more people now that think competition is the only thing that matters in games, and that the devs have a responsibility to focus on making the game competitive and balanced.

Competition can be fun, of course, but not when it starts to affect the atmosphere of a game like this. I have seen SO MANY new players harassed and driven away from the game over the last few years just because they got lost or couldn't figure out the menus. I have also seen the devs pressured into trying to meet unrealistic standards and being insulted for not getting things just right.

It's hard to remain passionate about something you are working on in your free time when this is what you get for it. If this mod is 'failing', it's because we as a community have failed it, not the developers. Please try to remember why you liked this game in the first place, and help other people enjoy it too, because LoU is a huge loss already, and it is only going to get worse.

i agree with this.

 

[Gargos]

It's hard to remain passionate about something you are working on in your free time when this is what you get for it. If this mod is 'failing', it's because we as a community have failed it, not the developers. Please try to remember why you liked this game in the first place, and help other people enjoy it too, because LoU is a huge loss already, and it is only going to get worse.

That is well said and could not agree more.

 

[cgj26]

I've been playing this mod on and off since uh... well I still have this from when I first downloaded it:

Back then, you started with 4 points and had to earn more through kills or waiting for the next round, and the servers used to crash every 5-10 minutes, taking away all your progress. But nobody stopped playing, because the gameplay was so fun and unique and the community was made up of people who loved it.

This mod, at its core, is fantastic and always has been. The devs are amazing, especially when you consider what they've had to work with. What's changed is the community, as a result of changes in the culture of gaming and esports as a whole. There are more people now that think competition is the only thing that matters in games, and that the devs have a responsibility to focus on making the game competitive and balanced.

Competition can be fun, of course, but not when it starts to affect the atmosphere of a game like this. I have seen SO MANY new players harassed and driven away from the game over the last few years just because they got lost or couldn't figure out the menus. I have also seen the devs pressured into trying to meet unrealistic standards and being insulted for not getting things just right.

It's hard to remain passionate about something you are working on in your free time when this is what you get for it. If this mod is 'failing', it's because we as a community have failed it, not the developers. Please try to remember why you liked this game in the first place, and help other people enjoy it too, because LoU is a huge loss already, and it is only going to get worse.

I don't understand how people can be so mean to other people. the meanest thing I've said in mb2 is to AOD members but we've all done that at some point.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

I don't understand how people can be so mean to other people. the meanest thing I've said in mb2 is to AOD members but we've all done that at some point.

Being mean isn't an issue. While I concede that the community for MB2 is disturbingly bad (For Honor's however is worse), being insulted is not an appropriate excuse for giving up on your passions. If you truly love this game, then you would not care what others say about you, and you would simply do what you feel would benefit it. You would, *gasp*, grow thicker skin.

Devs work on this game because they have the unique position of knowing code, and having the ability to change it. They are as fallible as any other human being, and should be open to criticism, whether it is good or bad. I have always been a firm believer in telling people the truth as bluntly as possible, regardless of whether it hurts their feelings or not.

Efficiency and logic take precedence over emotions.

 

[MaceMadunusus]

TIL Humans should be Vulcans

 

[Vizino]

TIL Humans should be Vulcans

Vulcans are kewl, much peace, unless your Romulan

 

[Sonichu]

TIL Humans should be Vulcans

Why not? Most MB2 players get laid at same intervals as Vulcans if they are lucky.

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

One day, one update, the devs will pull a great trick.

Star Trek MovieBattles.

 

[KimmyMarin]

One day, one update, the devs will pull a great trick.

Star Trek MovieBattles.

where are you ??? i barely see you anymore -3-

 

[Viserys]

Being mean isn't an issue. While I concede that the community for MB2 is disturbingly bad (For Honor's however is worse), being insulted is not an appropriate excuse for giving up on your passions. If you truly love this game, then you would not care what others say about you, and you would simply do what you feel would benefit it. You would, *gasp*, grow thicker skin.

Really? Absolutely not. We are not robots and will not spend our limited free time working on a mod, even if we like the mod itself, if all we get is attitudes like yours.

Devs work on this game because they have the unique position of knowing code, and having the ability to change it. They are as fallible as any other human being, and should be open to criticism, whether it is good or bad. I have always been a firm believer in telling people the truth as bluntly as possible, regardless of whether it hurts their feelings or not.

Efficiency and logic take precedence over emotions.

This is what I was talking about. Posts/attitudes like this have demotivated a bunch of devs thus far and will continue to do so.

 

[DaloLorn]

*** QUOTE - FIRST PARAGRAPH OF ACHILLES' POST ***

Really? Absolutely not. We are not robots and will not spend our limited free time working on a mod, even if we like the mod itself, if all we get is attitudes like yours.

*** QUOTE - THE REST OF ACHILLES' POST ***

This is what I was talking about. Posts/attitudes like this have demotivated a bunch of devs thus far and will continue to do so.

Adding my two credits:

Disagreeing with the direction something is going in, and offering logical arguments to explain why the devs should do what you've suggested rather than what they were going to do, is not bad. Dissenting opinions are not inherently bad or wrong, I think this is an important point to make.

On the other hand, Viserys' post highlights the importance of tact - not everyone has a magical barrier preventing them from getting upset over the way you present your feedback, or from losing the will to do stuff because they were upset. (Arguably, I do. Less arguably, that hasn't stopped me so far. )

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

where are you ??? i barely see you anymore -3-

Is that what you think?

Tho I do get banned and unbanned on these forums. It's amusing. I think it was actually this thread that did it too. Go figure. I was 2 critical of the launcher?

There's flaming and then there are honest assessments and criticisms.

Speaking of motivation, it's strange. I suppose each person has a different limit but feedback towards devs has always been largely negative. Not because it's been bad back to back but the loudest voices tend to stick out.

And its easier to complain rather than praise. And a bit of selfishness in that those complaints are a manipulative attempt to make a change the poster desires.

Some more extreme than others.

 

[LoU]

Is that what you think?

Tho I do get banned and unbanned on these forums. It's amusing. I think it was actually this thread that did it too. Go figure. I was 2 critical of the launcher?

There's flaming and then there are honest assessments and criticisms.

Speaking of motivation, it's strange. I suppose each person has a different limit but feedback towards devs has always been largely negative. Not because it's been bad back to back but the loudest voices tend to stick out.

And its easier to complain rather than praise. And a bit of selfishness in that those complaints are a manipulative attempt to make a change the poster desires.

Some more extreme than others.

You were right about launcher tho. Not sure if you got any warnings coz your posts, gonna check later.

Some history hidden behind launcher.

Back in the days, we havent got much time, and resources to make launcher, so I decided to step in and make POC that my idea WILL work. Sxx was ok with it to put me on it, but then I had to give the code to someone else to check it. We lost some devs, so instead putting launcher on hold I implemented rest of the features which were needed to release it. Launcher was ready, tested (everyone was testing it) so we pushed it to public. Then MBII disappeared. So again no time to finish it ASAP it had to wait for patches.

I know this is not an excuse, and I hate when people start something and then won't finish it, if I only knew my IRL wiill take my all free time I wouldn't agree on releasing launcher in the first place. I was wrong, I admit it. My apologizes for that mistake.

Anyway, I like criticism, because I think this is what pushes you forward. This harsh, brutal feedback I found more motivating than some good words. Each failure makes you stronger, each fall makes next one harder. This is how I've been taught, but other people feel more motivated when they are tapped at theirs back. So everyone posting criticism should reconsider their words. This is not "dojo" of martial arts club, we have people who would like to see the worst criticism put in a different words, explained differently, less hostile.

I always liked you @Chaos the Chaotic and on this one I fully agree with you. We should wit with launcher until it... works. But now, it's not that bad Some fixes are need to be applied, when I get some free time I will do it.


---------
@Chaos the Chaotic None of the warnings you received are related to this thread, for sure not directly

 

[MaceMadunusus]

Anyway, I like criticism, because I think this is what pushes you forward. This harsh, brutal feedback I found more motivating than some good words. Each failure makes you stronger, each fall makes next one harder.

I agree, and I have certainly learned a lot from criticism of levels throughout the years. However I have seen it time and time again, the idea that "developers are bad, they're ruining the game". That is one of the farthest things from criticism that I can think of. It offers no actual feedback as to what we did wrong. I've seen for example people saying "Developers fucked up the saber system". Okay, it is impossible to fuck up the entire thing. Which parts did we fuck up? What parts don't you like? Making generic statements like "Developers are bad, they've screwed up the saber system once again with stupid changes" that I have seen more times than I can count in recent years isn't even the least bit helpful, and isn't even criticism. That kind of "feedback" is literally useless to me and anyone developing the game as it has nothing helpful about it. I want feedback and criticism, not flaming.

Yes there are people that provide proper feedback and criticism even on the saber system, only using examples here. Thank you to those people.