Why, and bye.

[LoU]

My response to ( for more Real talk, the future of MBII and ... )
Skip this part if you want raw facts.
10 years ago, my brother who you may know him as -polaks-Ordo /AOL Ordo or simply Rex or Padawan showed me this game. I've never felt like uber superb fan of Star Wars, but yeah lemme try. I used to play many games, spent countless hours playing COD4, Sims, Tycoons, Fifa/PES.

The day I played MBII for the first time, was the first day of the last days of "LoU and Games". I stopped playing other games, stopped considering other games as "fun". Movie Battles was more than just a game, for me it was like... did i just discovered IRC in game? With bunch of nice people, trolls, fun. Yeah, that was MBii. The most unique game ever. I will never forget when i started beating my skill in HTML/PHP while creating first polish site about movie battles gathering 7 clans, and more than 200 players. Then I met @Nex and @GogettO , and even after these all years we are still in touch.

One day I was addicted to many games, the other I couldn't even imagine playing anything bout MBII. No matter of lacking skill, pure fun.

After RC1 came out, we had pretty big playerbase. After next 5 years, I started loosing my interest. And I will tell you why...

Please don't tell me this is the game's fault, it's too old and that's the only reason people gave up. No, it's totally our fault - DEVS, we fucked up, noone wants to admit it, hiding behind excuses or looking for compromise for fuckups.

Don't you think it's pretty weird to loose more than (i will focus on my example as polish player) 80 competitive players, 7 clans in just 2 years?
Is it purely because the game is old?
I DON"T THINK SO.

Why the fuck we have to change saber system release after release, not fixing exisiting bugs, or making improvements for other things.

MBII is not a casual game nor competitive, it's Frankenstein's Monster, mix of black and white. Can you be semi pregnant? No. Can you have two game styles in one piece of game? No.

The problem is, by fixing minor things, tweaking this there, a little bit here and again there we didn't ever look at bigger picture. Why are we doign this? Coz of balance? No that's not an answer, balance towards what? Noone knows, where are we going with this? WHo cares, let's make another change here and there.

LoU why are you talking about only about competitive game? Simply because competition is something what attracts people. BUT this is not my intention to force competition everywhere. We could have RP server, CTF, Competitive, Open modes, FA.

I lost my all hope for MBII that's why for the past 2 years I was in shadow just talking, with Sxx aboard I made launcher, I had a hope back then, development was more consistent.

I'm not against removing time limit for RolePlayers why the hell would be forbid them playing? Coz this game is about teamwork? Hahahaha -.-. It's not. It's totally not. Yeah, let's cut access to this mod for someone who don't want to play by our rules.

That's my open letter. I don't expect you to agree, I don't even care (no offense) . I might be mistaken, maybe it's me who don't see a big picture. Maybe it's just me who see current state of MBII as a problem, maybe reality is totalyy different? We have more players, noone whines about this game and love this mod more than ever. Maybe I'm too old, or it's only me who wants to see this mod differentl. Again, that's my opinion, an my goodbye letter

It was a pleasure working with you, laugh, even playing dotf. I don't hold grudge towards anyone, and with my goodbye I also want to apologize, Sorry to all the players who aren't happy with changes we did while I've been a Leader.

Love you all,
May the force be with you.
Bye. LoU ex gracz, only admin

 

[Helix]

The problem is, by fixing minor things, tweaking this there, a little bit here and again there we didn't ever look at bigger picture. Why are we doign this? Coz of balance? No that's not an answer, balance towards what? Noone knows, where are we going with this? WHo cares, let's make another change here and there.

As a dev who (gladly) never took part in gameplay changes/discussions (because I like and mostly excel at doing backend stuff), and as a guy who has almost 2 years of professional experience of gamedev in a huge company, I can say few things for sure:

• MBII never (since the beginning) had any kind of strict gamedesign plan. Thus gameplay coders had to do two things: design AND code, which is really a bad idea.
• Every gameplay coder in MBII thinks it's his duty to re-do everything gameplay-wise, focusing on little things and not thinking of how it would affect the system in whole.
• MBII never had any serious hierarchy. Yes, there are "leads" and there are "devs". I'm not gonna mention any internal problems regarding this but this organization is just wrong. Once I thought that a little informal anarchy is OK, but the more time I spent with the team, the more I realized that we need small separate departments within the team. It's terribly wrong that designers & coders, for example, are mixed.
• As there's no gamedesign department (yet?), leads should be the people who set the direction of the development. And from what I remember, Viserys even tried to. The thing is, everyone in the team values their own opinion over others', and this is my problem as well. Everyone respects only himself.
• I adore people who think that randomly throwing in some opinions/ideas about anything is called "gamedesign".
• "Balance getups? Nope. Balance weapons in each team? Nope. Balance classes by their perks? Nope, let's just make running SBD instead! And more classes! Dunno why and which role they will accomplish, but let's do something, because the game is very old, and we don't progress, and what leader am I if you guys aren't working?" %mb2_lead%.
  As old friend Palpy said, "All who gain power are afraid to lose it.". It's better to be a king in a scrapyard than a maiden in the palace. Nuff said.
• Summing up every point above resulted in long updates. No deadlines whatsoever. None can set them because none will listen. We should've started making biweekly updates ever since v1.3.2, and none would fucking care if we wouldn't have new models and maps, just playing with digits like increasing/decreasing damage, cost etc. No, it's nonsense, lets just make few updates per year and disappear between them.

Circus.

 

[MaceMadunusus]

Please don't tell me this is the game's fault, it's too old and that's the only reason people gave up. No, it's totally our fault - DEVS, we fucked up, noone wants to admit it, hiding behind excuses or looking for compromise for fuckups.

Why the F**k we have to change saber system release after release, not fixing exisiting bugs, or making improvements for other things.

The problem is, by fixing minor things, tweaking this there, a little bit here and again there we didn't ever look at bigger picture. Why are we doign this? Coz of balance? No that's not an answer, balance towards what? Noone knows, where are we going with this? WHo cares, let's make another change here and there.

Completely agree and you of all people know I was with you fighting for bigger change. I hated doing saber changes every damn build and I know you did too.

Thank you for all you did LoU, it is not just you who sees the state of MB2 as a problem and it is why I am making my little thing as I couldn't see making the changes to MB2 as possible with what is currently available in JKA. Every thing you were able to do yourself with the website and the launcher were all positive changes for MB2 and I am pretty sure that launcher helped stave off MB2s death and will continue to do so. Updating was a massive pain beforehand.

If you have any more specific gameplay grievances you know where you can voice them to me so I can attempt to not repeat our mistakes.

Again, thank you for LoU. None of us were perfect, and I would certainly change a lot of what I did in mb2 if I had the chance to go back but I know you were a positive force trying to push it forward and make it better. To me you will always be welcome around here.

 

[LoU]

MBII never (since the beginning) had any kind of strict gamedesign plan. Thus gameplay coders had to do two things: design AND code, which is really a bad idea.

This.

Every gameplay coder in MBII thinks it's his duty to re-do everything gameplay-wise, focusing on little things and not thinking of how it would affect the system in whole.

THIS

MBII never had any serious hierarchy. Yes, there are "leads" and there are "devs". I'm not gonna mention any internal problems regarding this but this organization is just wrong. Once I thought that a little informal anarchy is OK, but the more time I spent with the team, the more I realized that we need small separate departments within the team. It's terribly wrong that designers & coders, for example, are mixed.

THIS!

• As there's no gamedesign department (yet?), leads should be the people who set the direction of the development. And from what I remember, Viserys even tried to. The thing is, everyone in the team values their own opinion over others', and this is my problem as well. Everyone respects only himself.

• I adore people who think that randomly throwing in some opinions/ideas about anything is called "gamedesign".

100% true , but @Helix let's be honest, we might have 12 years old, 30 years, but still have to be mature ;P

And Mace, we all learn from our mistakes, so don't be afraid to make one, two but always admit it you did it. This is huge, this is what makes you YOU.

I will always be around, I will still help with the site, servers etc. Not gonna live my old wife, just coz she's old.
MBII will always have a place in my <3

My tip:
Rethink of how this game should look like, forget everything it is now, think what it was (but a little). Come up with a plan, share with community.

Another problem with listening to community is that it's splitted New Players who only know how this game looks like, what it is AND on the other side old vets, who'v been here since the very beginning .

For them, b17 is totally different game thus their opionons and feedback towards new things are also focused on old version of MBII, where new players only see this and now. They don't understand why vets what something different, coz game is totally diiferent and in their mindset they just can't see it.

Listen, but first clean everything up.

Never is too late for changes Just don't be afraid to do it.

 

[Nex]

Never is too late for changes Just don't be afraid to do it.

That's what I've told them yesterday in my original post. Mod needs drastical change. But then all americans like Chaotic, jameson and rosh (including mb2 staff team members) jumped and screamed on me like some aggresive kids with OCD insulting me for whole day. And if this is how it looks like inside mb2team, namely, constant childish insults or believing some opinions to be more important than others and forcing you to obey regardless then no wonder there's less and less ppl working on this mod.
Again, thanks for launcher, thanks for overall contribution LoU. In the end, the real problem are always people, arrogant ones in particular. (and trolls obviously, but these can be found everywhere).

 

[MaceMadunusus]

And Mace, we all learn from our mistakes, so don't be afraid to make one, two but always admit it you did it. This is huge, this is what makes you YOU.

Yep, I started working on MB2 when I was what, 15.... pre-RC1. Your thinking completely changes in that time period. I am willing to make a post of my mistakes if that would make everyone happy, and since I don't like being blamed for things I had nothing to do with.

Rethink of how this game should look like, forget everything it is now, think what it was (but a little). Come up with a plan, share with community.

Been working on it with the meeting you can see in EC slack. Starting with Immigration Policy (Good/Bad of MB2), then eventually starting the design of new stuff. You are welcome to join on the next one if the topics interest you (Haven't set it up because LootaBox and I have some things to deal with the next two weeks)

Never is too late for changes Just don't be afraid to do it.

Changes for EC are massive, no fear here!

 

[Smee]

wtf I love LoU now

 

[Cake']

Sad..

 

[NERO]

The more I play this game, even after over 10 years of playing it, I find myself pissed at problems in the gameplay that have been there for almost all this time, and only see devs spending their time fixing things that already function or making things that should not be more important than fixing older balance and technical issues. On my own terms I understand how Lou feels.

I don't have it in me to leave this game yet. But I don't feel like I've been listened in complaints or ideas about gameplay, whether I formed them well or not. To think I used to even defend the shitty parts of this mod, but that's far past now.

Hopefully there will be a brighter future, someday, somewhere.

Thanks for all the good times Lou. Good luck, and may the Force be with you.

 

[chicknman]

I don't know much about the EU scene or the players but they seem to be more level-headed than the NA side. I appreciate all the work you put into this mod and completely understand why you're leaving.

 

[GoodOl'Ben]

Lou has many valid points. I do wish I had the time and energy to be there in the team to help right now, but I just fear that I would end up burning myself out. I've stared at this mod for so long that it's refreshing to think about new projects to work on.

Either way, see ya around Lou!

 

[Rosh+]

bi com baak wen u git gud

srsly tho luv u

 

[cgj26]

1. Not sure if your leaving for good or not but if you are I hope you find something you like just as much MB2.
2. This used to be my go to game then they changed the one thing, CC 2 for sold.
Anyways your a great dev i'll miss you fam <3, let's hope the other devs fix a great game. Or we could just move on to MB3.

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

That's what I've told them yesterday in my original post. Mod needs drastical change. But then all americans like Chaotic, jameson and rosh (including mb2 staff team members) jumped and screamed on me like some aggresive kids with OCD insulting me for whole day. And if this is how it looks like inside mb2team, namely, constant childish insults or believing some opinions to be more important than others and forcing you to obey regardless then no wonder there's less and less ppl working on this mod.
Again, thanks for launcher, thanks for overall contribution LoU. In the end, the real problem are always people, arrogant ones in particular. (and trolls obviously, but these can be found everywhere).

How amusing. The changes you suggested were game-breaking nonsense. If you were even serious about them in the 1st place.
And I believe you meant to say Yankee, though I'm puzzled why you think that would be an insult even as you intend it as one.
But hey, Americuh!

As to the launcher....

Sorry Lou, it has its pros and it has its very real cons considering how much work Puppytine has put in the support section since its inception.
I know my game is still distorted.

-----------------

In other words, you didn't finish the job. Which is really, the real problem. The team puts on this front, not as bad as the 1st half of mbs life, but still there about whats going on and how things are done. It's something I've looked down on. More honesty in the beginning and less bs would have been beneficial. Several major us clans quit because of this, 8 years ago? Hmmmm, its tough being ahead of everything

It's whatever one feels like doing. That's why I've said numerous times that if anyone wants actual change, they have to get off their asses and do it themselves, the coders are really all that matter when it comes to anything regarding this mod because they actually do the changes....!

But, this is still, a mod. Not a professional work. A hobby and you would be hard-pressed to enforce anything close to industry standards upon a group of people who do or did this for fun.

In other words, this is how it is, it's not going to change, it could never change and any dream it could, is a cake.
You make do and that's it.

Activity and interest are the only driving force.
The rest is air.
The mod has definitely been a great success. It's older than some current players. Babies born when MB came out have already gone through puberty. This is the natural progression of things.

Be glad for the experience, say thanks for the memories and move on if you must.
Good luck with what you do and for the love of God, get a better class of friends.

I also recommend reading "Long Day's Journey into Night".

 

[MaceMadunusus]

Sorry Lou, it has its pros and it has its very real cons considering how much work Puppytine has put in the support section since its inception.
I know my game is still distorted

Most of the issues are due to Steam and how Valve designed it, rather than the launcher or what LoU did specifically.

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

I use the cd. Still the original cd I bought so many years ago.
I tried to fix it for 2 months.
I gave up.

For the last year+ I've played with a widescreen distortion after some update killed my ability to use mbclient or whatever. My aim is forever off now.

But this isn't support and I'm not going to invest or divert more time or energy into it or away from here.
The sentiment remains. Doesn't change the fact that there have been so many issues with it for new and old players alike.

I was being nice. Let me be nice.

 

[Spaghetti]

I disagree with a few things brought up in this thread, but I also think we as a community often get hyper focused on some particular hot button issue to the point of forgetting other things. This is especially true for how arguments tend to go. Very similar to partisan politics in many countries. On the positive side I guess that demonstrates many people still care about the game, even if they disagree. Anyway...

Thank you very much LoU for all of your past contributions and continued support in the background. We would not be where we are now without you.

 

[Jameson]

My response to ( for more Real talk, the future of MBII and ... )
Skip this part if you want raw facts.
10 years ago, my brother who you may know him as -polaks-Ordo /AOL Ordo or simply Rex or Padawan showed me this game. I've never felt like uber superb fan of Star Wars, but yeah lemme try. I used to play many games, spent countless hours playing COD4, Sims, Tycoons, Fifa/PES.

The day I played MBII for the first time, was the first day of the last days of "LoU and Games". I stopped playing other games, stopped considering other games as "fun". Movie Battles was more than just a game, for me it was like... did i just discovered IRC in game? With bunch of nice people, trolls, fun. Yeah, that was MBii. The most unique game ever. I will never forget when i started beating my skill in HTML/PHP while creating first polish site about movie battles gathering 7 clans, and more than 200 players. Then I met @Nex and @GogettO , and even after these all years we are still in touch.

One day I was addicted to many games, the other I couldn't even imagine playing anything bout MBII. No matter of lacking skill, pure fun.

After RC1 came out, we had pretty big playerbase. After next 5 years, I started loosing my interest. And I will tell you why...

Please don't tell me this is the game's fault, it's too old and that's the only reason people gave up. No, it's totally our fault - DEVS, we fucked up, noone wants to admit it, hiding behind excuses or looking for compromise for fuckups.

Don't you think it's pretty weird to loose more than (i will focus on my example as polish player) 80 competitive players, 7 clans in just 2 years?
Is it purely because the game is old?
I DON"T THINK SO.

Why the F**k we have to change saber system release after release, not fixing exisiting bugs, or making improvements for other things.

MBII is not a casual game nor competitive, it's Frankenstein's Monster, mix of black and white. Can you be semi pregnant? No. Can you have two game styles in one piece of game? No.

The problem is, by fixing minor things, tweaking this there, a little bit here and again there we didn't ever look at bigger picture. Why are we doign this? Coz of balance? No that's not an answer, balance towards what? Noone knows, where are we going with this? WHo cares, let's make another change here and there.

LoU why are you talking about only about competitive game? Simply because competition is something what attracts people. BUT this is not my intention to force competition everywhere. We could have RP server, CTF, Competitive, Open modes, FA.

I lost my all hope for MBII that's why for the past 2 years I was in shadow just talking, with Sxx aboard I made launcher, I had a hope back then, development was more consistent.

I'm not against removing time limit for RolePlayers why the hell would be forbid them playing? Coz this game is about teamwork? Hahahaha -.-. It's not. It's totally not. Yeah, let's cut access to this mod for someone who don't want to play by our rules.

That's my open letter. I don't expect you to agree, I don't even care (no offense) . I might be mistaken, maybe it's me who don't see a big picture. Maybe it's just me who see current state of MBII as a problem, maybe reality is totalyy different? We have more players, noone whines about this game and love this mod more than ever. Maybe I'm too old, or it's only me who wants to see this mod differentl. Again, that's my opinion, an my goodbye letter

It was a pleasure working with you, laugh, even playing dotf. I don't hold grudge towards anyone, and with my goodbye I also want to apologize, Sorry to all the players who aren't happy with changes we did while I've been a Leader.

Love you all,
May the force be with you.
Bye. LoU ex gracz, only admin

I will be serious. I never liked you, but after all good work with mb2 and giving most of the stuff I decided to change my mind. You are a good hard working guy with a good soul. Community and I will miss you.


Goodbye LoU. The force be with you, always

 

[Jameson]

Mb2 will change a lot without you tho . We need a guy like him

 

[kvinto]