I'm happy to hear that there is a plan to do an Open beta soon, whoever's version it is I hope it's examined and tested thoroughly this time before being released.
Oh and before I forget @k4far is it true that you were banned from GJO server for excessively shadow swinging and still losing to whitenames Padawan and Padawan[1]?
- using heal to cancel a move, which allows you to reset your combo or instantly cancel a blue lunge, ydfa, rdfa, and stab.
- saber twirl, switching to melee then back to saber to swing faster allowing for more dynamic and stylized dueling.
- Pre 1.1 PB mechanic, just bring back putting the lightsaber in between yourself and your opponents swing, no need to kill your wrist in order to PB.
- Bring back NUDGE, omg was dueling so much better when you could nudge -> combo -> half-swing -> combo -> slap -> combo -> heal(to reset combo) -> nudge -> halfswing -> combo -> win duel.
The thing that dueling lacks anymore is creativity and style. No longer are we allowed to have fun with our dueling, no more healing to reset combos, stabs, and special moves. No more twirling the lightsaber to quickly get a red swing in your combo, no more halfswings... What actually happened to this mod. Dueling used to be the big appeal to this mod (IMO) now there really is none. This is why I left 2+ years ago.
- Using heal to cancel a move: that's implemented correctly nowadays, you can do it by pressing use + reload during a swing. But it intentionally doesn't work with saber special moves, because that was kinda OP. Well, more importantly, it defeated the meaning of commitment when doing a particular special move. If you can just cancel any special move to escape when it fails, then that doesn't allow us to have special moves that are strong + risky. They'd all have to be weak, otherwise it would be OP as heck.
- Saber twirl: yeah, i want that back too, it's just a coding difficulty to implement it properly. Maybe that can be resolved now that i have more experience, but i'm not sure, it was really annoying.
PB and nudge, i've already answered earlier. As for creativity and fun, well, let's just say i have some pretty bold ideas these days (compared to my previous puny value tweaks and stupid artificial perks) that could significantly reshape the saber system and actually make it way more fun, and insane, than it has ever been, hopefully in an upcoming open beta.
Did you even look at the video in my last post? Go ahead and watch it, nudge allowed you to create openings and control the duel. I'd describe it as more of a feature and so would others.
Dueling is definitely not like in that arcade game you posted, you still need to focus on the enemy and watch his movements to see what kind of swings he's about to do and then move your camera in order to pb.
Which is exactly what it looks like in the video he posted? Maybe rewatch, it's exactly what we currently have even since 1.1. We got an arcade PB turnbase dueling build.
old pblock is very unreliable and promotes holding your backward movement key down. this version of perfect blocking is much better but still has it's issues
So you prefer the version that's basically a guessing game on where they're going to strike flinging your camera from top right to bottom left then to top left? I love the guessing game.
Without the saber blocking though, you get stuff like fidget spinner yaw spam that makes you just kind of wonder "how did we get to this point?". That then leads to having dumb stuff like neutering combo damage and ending up with another 1.4 clone which is just so much fun. Bad zones don't help either (at least everyone can see how dumb they are now with the indicators, lol).
I might be misquoting you on this one but people still yaw to avoid getting PB'd in the current system. Yawing won't go anywhere, if anything this new PB system encourages you to yaw more than the old PB system, which is rather sad. Yawing used to be about altering your timings to hopefully interrupt your opponents swings by confusing them. Now it's just to avoid the PB zones. So it's devolved from altering your swing timing to avoiding PB zones.
I believe the biggest issue currently is that almost every part of the system is extremely homogenized. There's such a lack of variety that I don't even care who's behind the saber anymore because there's basically a guarantee they're going to be dueling 90% identical to literally everyone else (mostly just a small variation in how much they yaw). That's not their fault. It's just how the system is now. There's no/very little variation in timing on the styles themselves (see old Yellow's mix of swing timings as one of the best things about the older builds) and now, with the vastly misinterpreted (it was just supposed to be changed so that you didn't get stuck when hit in certain circumstances..) changes to how countering works, every style basically has the same ability to counter (except for Red in a lot of cases because it's Red) with the same timing. Then there's the inconsistent insta-swings off of hitting someone mid-swing (which @Stassin says is intentional and he wants it to stay). Super clunky, annoying, and outright boring/unfun to play. It's just been going further and further downhill for a long time.
I cannot stress this enough, no longer do we have variety in dueling, apart from people yawing to avoid PB zones. I used my yellow /w blue lunge style the other day and everyone was amazed asking if I was scripting because they had never seen it.. This is why we need the old features back. Nudge, real halfswings, and saber twirl. Bring individualism and style back to dueling.
- Using heal to cancel a move: that's implemented correctly nowadays, you can do it by pressing use + reload during a swing. But it intentionally doesn't work with saber special moves, because that was kinda OP. Well, more importantly, it defeated the meaning of commitment when doing a particular special move. If you can just cancel any special move to escape when it fails, then that doesn't allow us to have special moves that are strong + risky. They'd all have to be weak, otherwise it would be OP as heck.
You can cancel a swing yes, but what I'm mostly offended by is adding a cooldown to it. You used to be able to use it skillfully in a duel. You would do a combo -> slap(if they go down) -> swing -> heal to turn off saber after it hits -> reignite saber to start a new combo. You can't do this anymore because there's a cooldown and I'm not even sure if you can turn it off after a hit anymore.
To answer this:
- Saber twirl: yeah, i want that back too, it's just a coding difficulty to implement it properly. Maybe that can be resolved now that i have more experience, but i'm not sure, it was really annoying.
If not for allowing faster swings, just give it back for some flair, nothing like doing it mid duel before you go back in for another combo. I also felt like it added some type of psychological warfare feel to dueling.
PB and nudge, i've already answered earlier. As for creativity and fun, well, let's just say i have some pretty bold ideas these days (compared to my previous puny value tweaks and stupid artificial perks) that could significantly reshape the saber system and actually make it way more fun, and insane, than it has ever been, hopefully in an upcoming open beta.
When nudge was reintroduced in 1.4+, many of the old vets liked it at first, but then most grew to dislike it. You yourself disliked 1.4 more so than 1.3. I'm assuming you're EU since I never saw you on NA. I don't know too many EU vets well enough to know their opinions on Pre-V1 stuff, but I know the mass consensus even among the champions of those versions was 'inconsistency'. I myself went back to older versions and played with a couple people, finding them super inconsistent, and generally weird.
Anywho there are a plethora of reasons for not having nudge, for one it promotes face-fucking which I think we want to discourage more. Secondly it just results in guessing the swings of your opponent since it is impossible to react to them. Thirdly, it looks stupid, and is illogical. (Though a lot of things in MB2 could be described that way.)
Unfortunately you're in a very, very, niche section of the MB2 playground. I've played with your system, and I disliked it. As I said to Firestrike, there is a potential possibility in deepening the parry mechanic, but you want your system, and unfortunately MB2 has moved on to a far more consistent one.
I might be misquoting you on this one but people still yaw to avoid getting PB'd in the current system. Yawing won't go anywhere, if anything this new PB system encourages you to yaw more than the old PB system, which is rather sad. Yawing used to be about altering your timings to hopefully interrupt your opponents swings by confusing them. Now it's just to avoid the PB zones. So it's devolved from altering your swing timing to avoiding PB zones.
For clarity's sake, when I refer to fidget spinner yawing, I mean the kind of yaws where people are doing upwards of 45-90 degree turns with each swing. There's a few in NA that basically have this as the basis of their play. Not sure about EU.
I'm currently working on PB zone tweaks that should make the defending more consistent. Also some more timing tools, hopefully (Yellow has its old A halfswing atm in my stuff so there's that at least).
When nudge was reintroduced in 1.4+, many of the old vets liked it at first, but then most grew to dislike it. You yourself disliked 1.4 more so than 1.3. I'm assuming you're EU since I never saw you on NA. I don't know too many EU vets well enough to know their opinions on Pre-V1 stuff, but I know the mass consensus even among the champions of those versions was 'inconsistency'. I myself went back to older versions and played with a couple people, finding them super inconsistent, and generally weird.
Anywho there are a plethora of reasons for not having nudge, for one it promotes face-fucking which I think we want to discourage more. Secondly it just results in guessing the swings of your opponent since it is impossible to react to them. Thirdly, it looks stupid, and is illogical. (Though a lot of things in MB2 could be described that way.)
Unfortunately you're in a very, very, niche section of the MB2 playground. I've played with your system, and I disliked it. As I said to Firestrike, there is a potential possibility in deepening the parry mechanic, but you want your system, and unfortunately MB2 has moved on to a far more consistent one.
You said you went back and played older builds? Which ones specifically? Who did you play them with? How long did you take to learn an alien system that you never spent time practicing in? The actual vets spent years learning the intricacies of the systems you're attempting to comment on.
I'd imagine it'd be hard for anyone who started post rc3p4 to wrap their head around the idea of nudge being a good mechanic for the game. From first-hand experience (playing those builds while the entire community was) I can tell you that nudge was not a problem for the game. I witnessed some of the greatest duels to ever happen in this game during those builds. Even two people nudging each other endlessly could last 5 minutes if they were of equal skill level. Don't even begin to say 5 minute duels are a problem, they absolutely aren't. Nudging wasn't all spam either it was a great way to tell someone to back off in combo spams. Bottom line nudge was easily controlled if you spent the time to learn it. Also you did not have to guess your opponent's swings if you had proper timing on your counters/nudges. Being skilled in this game shouldn't come free.
I am not going to start throwing numbers at you, or speak on the logic of the system itself, but from the perspective of a long time player and forever fan of the mod the sabering system was broken the moment V0 perks were introduced and subsequently V1 PB overhaul.
The order of which changes happened is lost on me, but the addition of perks, stagger, cyan, purple, etc all added elements to the game. We added more color styles to choose from YAY!? What we lost is many, many styles of individual players. You could pick any one color and you could find 5~ "pros" who used those colors in different ways. You could tell who was playing the game even if they were aliased. That is impossible now. At high levels of play you are pigeonholed into using each style in one way. This cut the diversity of the system in half.
Why is it that when there were 3 colors (4 if you count fast blue) we had 2x the amount of dueling styles? Because people knew how to perfect block, they knew how to interrupt (remember when that was punishing? probably not it hasn't existed since), they knew how to counter, play defensively, go on an all out attack, and mblock.
The old PB system wasn't 100% consistent, and that was the problem. The overarching plan should have been to work towards making the pre-existing PB 100% consistent, and not demolishing it and replacing it with a completely new (and unfavorable) PB system. We now have PB at 100% consistency, but the cost was too high for the benefit. Perfect block back then was fluid in design and was more about timing and placement of your saber instead of which exact camera quadrant degree you shoved your camera into. This style of pblock was taken advantage of with proper countering, and counter-nudging to interrupt an opponent for larger amounts of BP damage. Which allowed for a player to remain defensive against an opponent nudging you. It truly is a hard concept to grasp when you only experience it for the first time while interacting with 2-4 people who retroactively went back to a prior build to explore it. For this reason the entire mechanics for the old PB rewarded players with exceptionally good timing, and punished those who didn't have it.
Defiled (lol EU) and Firestrike are not in a niche playground of mb2, they are mb2. They've seen this game change over and over again for many years (for better or for worse). These vets you keep disregarding are your BEST source of information for developing this game further. You shouldn't shovel their input/insight to the side for your own egotistical approach to mb2's development.
tbh I was too young too remember the old days but I did play back in the day like 2008ish so I am still a vet. Honestly, the old builds felt pretty clunky in comparison to the newer builds. The only problems I have with the current build is the instant counters (especially with red, it's instant and when it hits it hits pretty damn hard) and the swing restrictions. I feel like there is no perfect patch and it's all just based on bias and we will never hit a perfect balance with the preferences of other players. You got vets on one side wanting to play with old builds because that's what they practiced with forever and you got newer-ish players who want to keep the current build and just change up certain aspects. Arguing about the patches is pretty pointless and it's basically just bickering at this point.
So basically I recommend just establishing the best balance possible between the preferences of others and of course remove things that are obviously exploitable like for example: instant counters.
Did you even look at the video in my last post? Go ahead and watch it, nudge allowed you to create openings and control the duel. I'd describe it as more of a feature and so would others.
Which is exactly what it looks like in the video he posted? Maybe rewatch, it's exactly what we currently have even since 1.1. We got an arcade PB turnbase dueling build.
Please name them off, indulge me.
So you prefer the version that's basically a guessing game on where they're going to strike flinging your camera from top right to bottom left then to top left? I love the guessing game.
I might be misquoting you on this one but people still yaw to avoid getting PB'd in the current system. Yawing won't go anywhere, if anything this new PB system encourages you to yaw more than the old PB system, which is rather sad. Yawing used to be about altering your timings to hopefully interrupt your opponents swings by confusing them. Now it's just to avoid the PB zones. So it's devolved from altering your swing timing to avoiding PB zones.
I cannot stress this enough, no longer do we have variety in dueling, apart from people yawing to avoid PB zones. I used my yellow /w blue lunge style the other day and everyone was amazed asking if I was scripting because they had never seen it.. This is why we need the old features back. Nudge, real halfswings, and saber twirl. Bring individualism and style back to dueling.
This contradicts everything you said previously about readding old features?
You can cancel a swing yes, but what I'm mostly offended by is adding a cooldown to it. You used to be able to use it skillfully in a duel. You would do a combo -> slap(if they go down) -> swing -> heal to turn off saber after it hits -> reignite saber to start a new combo. You can't do this anymore because there's a cooldown and I'm not even sure if you can turn it off after a hit anymore.
If not for allowing faster swings, just give it back for some flair, nothing like doing it mid duel before you go back in for another combo. I also felt like it added some type of psychological warfare feel to dueling.
You've piqued my interest, I'm rather curious what these changes are.
Firestrike said dueling is like in that arcade game where you only focus on the corners of the screen. Thats not how it is at all, how could you get any pb's if you dont watch your opponent and his movements? Mb2 dueling is not like an arcade turnbase game lol it all depends on how you want to play
Yeah, they did indeed. PB aside, there were a bunch of code improvements that made general mechanics alot more crisp. Nevertheless the old builds had components of freedom in the mechanics that translated into freedom over your saber and playstyle, that the current builds don't. So the goal should certainly be to experiment with mixing both. I'm really happy to see more old vets post here, it reaffirms my intention to try bold things and i'm so excited for it because frankly, i've never had alot of fun playing my latest patches since v1.1 that have always circled around the same core mechanics (particularly the boring parry system, the non-existence of style-switching, and the whole farce with style perks due to the attempt to bring cyan/purple into open mode), and not surprisingly i don't even play anymore.
The one thing i did enjoy about them is crisper mechanics and less feeling of randomness, because in v0 it often felt like people could randomly PB me while they were on the ground, or get a random parry that saved them instead of a mutual bodyhit. And well, in the first place those kinds of things were what drove me to start with v1.0 then v1.1 (though i'll admit the stagger-on-hit from v0.1.9 was probably what compelled me the most to join the dev team, that thing was cancer and needed to be removed as soon as possible).
>Loads of people in this thread say they don't like 1.5, or Stassin's take on the saber system. Most people want to try what is listed and Tempest's version.
>Stassin ignores it.
>A few people in this thread say they liked an entirely different mechanic from years prior that is highly debated even among the vets as being inconsistent.
>Stassin decides to push forward with his ideas to change the entire saber system.
At this point we've gone beyond Ubisoft For Honors level of design incompetence, and now we're bordering on one of those delusional chefs from Gordon Ramsay's Kitchen Nightmares.
I just can't even. Just really Stassin? Really? This is your logic? "Wow, no one liked my design decision, but these three or four veterans have shown me that I need to double down." I cannot even fathom how your mind works to jump to that sort of conclusion. It's actually starting to piss me off now.
Look, I respect a lot of the old duelists, but they are asking for way too much. The community is different now. Those vets that go back to try old builds have remarked that they aren't as good as they remember, that the new system is superior.
Just stop. You had your chance with SO MANY patches. Hell, you're responsible for the very patches that you say you hate, the patches that I hate, and the patches that the community hates. Your patches have pissed off basically everyone in the community at one point or another INCLUDING yourself. That tells me that you have no idea what you want, or what the community wants. You had so many chances, why not give Tempest a chance before you start sticking your dick into another massive system change?
Majority of current active playerbase started playing since 1.3 or later, going back to the old blocking system now would be pointless. Just adjust the PBzones or make them be like in 1.3 as Achilles keeps suggesting and be done with it. Don't go to anything pre 1.3. And no nudge please. ^^
>A few people in this thread say they liked an entirely different mechanic from years prior that is highly debated even among the vets as being inconsistent.
>Stassin decides to push forward with his ideas to change the entire saber system.
Wow, no one liked my design decision, but these three or four veterans have shown me that I need to double down." I cannot even fathom how your mind works to jump to that sort of conclusion. It's actually starting to piss me off now.
Look, I respect a lot of the old duelists, but they are asking for way too much. The community is different now. Those vets that go back to try old builds have remarked that they aren't as good as they remember, that the new system is superior.
Your patches have pissed off basically everyone in the community at one point or another INCLUDING yourself. That tells me that you have no idea what you want, or what the community wants.
Markyle did pose a pretty good question when he asked who you are talking about when you're mentioning all of these vets at various points. I'm not saying you should start dropping names, but let's rationally put things into perspective. The playerbase in 1.3 onwards was a fraction of what it used to be. B17 and RC1 were highly regarded as the two builds with playerbase population peaks in the community - arguably the highest MB2 ever was.
When someone quits MBII, they will usually not post in the airlock exclaiming that they're officially leaving and moving on. They will silently uninstall and won't look back for the most part. A good amount of them never used the forums in the first place, and those that did will usually not return here after they leave this mod. That's why I referred to the mass dueling decline in my earlier post as an exodus.
Let me try giving you another frame of reference you may be able to grasp better. For every veteran duelist you claim has stuck around the game (or forums?) past 1.3 with enough for you to get to know them, talk with them, and discern their opinion on all the saber builds from years past, there is an exponentially larger amount that have silently left game that you may not have even heard about, dueled with, or ever got the chance to realize they have ever existed. I drew a quick sketch in paint in case you're a visual learner like me.
It's a pretty obvious sketch but to elaborate, the circles are the population per build, and arrows are players leaving. That being said I do not have exact numbers or figures, but if you show that to anyone who was actually around, I don't think there will be many objections to its accuracy. The purple line is roughly where you, as well as a good part of the currently active playerbase picked the game up.
Wow, no one liked my design decision, but these three or four veterans have shown me that I need to double down." I cannot even fathom how your mind works to jump to that sort of conclusion. It's actually starting to piss me off now.
The three or four number count you are referring to is just what is in front of your face - the abnormally rare occurrence of a long time player coming back to these forums. I'm not sure if you fully understand just how large MBII was, what the true heart and soul was for the dueling community was at its prime. There's no feasible way for you to know. Defiled listed some names of the more brilliant saberists this game had to offer. I could easily triple that list and will definitely PM it to you if you're really that curious - and that still wouldn't do the actual amount of players justice.
I would say that most of them shared our viewpoints, but in actuality I am the one resurfacing their viewpoints due to the sheer scope of the situation that you may not be able to see. At one point, Sk1nn3r and Fluke's TLP RC1 dueling RP server consistently had more prominent duelists with amazing opinions and voices than he could fit in a full server before the hardcoded 5 minute time limit dissuaded them from playing. Thankfully you still have Tempest and Stassin to a large degree for reference.
This disconnect is one of the reasons it is tremendously difficult for Stassin and Tempest to properly dish out something that can please the active playerbase at this current point in time. This is also why there is such an incomprehensible disconnect on the forums. You may have played and retroactively explored the older builds, but it was a playerbase which came before you that created, critiqued, balanced, and lived it.
I've sincerely read most of your statements describing your interpretation of the older builds and with full respect due, I can affirm that it was nothing like what you are depicting. It is not nostalgia, bias or inaccuracy I spent years of my life playing this game with like-minded individuals who shared our collective passion - high quality dueling. I do admire your own passion for the game enough to actually go back and try to make sense of it. I did the exact same thing with Builds 17-19 and I couldn't evaluate the actual mechanics of those builds nearly as much as what I wanted to, for the exact same reason I'm telling you now.
I'm also not saying hard reset the saber system back to RC1 or RC3. I'm not actively dueling nor have any clue what Stassin or Tempest want to do with the system. I'm only here to present to you a larger perspective of what this game is and used to be. A perspective that truly has been lost for so long it's completely alien to the current playerbase. I only posted on here after realizing that the dueling system and community has entered some dark times with the playerbase being so scarce and disjointed, like how the burning of The Great Library of Alexandria supposedly set humanity back 1000 years (the actual truth to that story is debatable). Some of the arguments here in this thread are filled with fear and incapacity to truly understand what these vets are posting, and no one is to blame other than Father Time for not introducing you to this mod sooner.
I'm not here to advocate for or protest against your saber system in V1.5. I just wanted to let you know that we used to have a more fun, more well-received, alternative saber system years ago in my honest opinion. Take that for what you will.
Majority of current active playerbase started playing since 1.3 or later, going back to the old blocking system now would be pointless. Just adjust the PBzones or make them be like in 1.3 as Achilles keeps suggesting and be done with it. Don't go to anything pre 1.3. And no nudge please. ^^
Markyle did pose a pretty good question when he asked who you are talking about when you're mentioning all of these vets at various points. I'm not saying you should start dropping names, but let's rationally put things into perspective. The playerbase in 1.3 onwards was a fraction of what it used to be. B17 and RC1 were highly regarded as the two builds with playerbase population peaks in the community - arguably the highest MB2 ever was.
When someone quits MBII, they will usually not post in the airlock exclaiming that they're officially leaving and moving on. They will silently uninstall and won't look back for the most part. A good amount of them never used the forums in the first place, and those that did will usually not return here after they leave this mod. That's why I referred to the mass dueling decline in my earlier post as an exodus.
Let me try giving you another frame of reference you may be able to grasp better. For every veteran duelist you claim has stuck around the game (or forums?) past 1.3 with enough for you to get to know them, talk with them, and discern their opinion on all the saber builds from years past, there is an exponentially larger amount that have silently left game that you may not have even heard about, dueled with, or ever got the chance to realize they have ever existed. I drew a quick sketch in paint in case you're a visual learner like me.
It's a pretty obvious sketch but to elaborate, the circles are the population per build, and arrows are players leaving. That being said I do not have exact numbers or figures, but if you show that to anyone who was actually around, I don't think there will be many objections to its accuracy. The purple line is roughly where you, as well as a good part of the currently active playerbase picked the game up.
The three or four number count you are referring to is just what is in front of your face - the abnormally rare occurrence of a long time player coming back to these forums. I'm not sure if you fully understand just how large MBII was, what the true heart and soul was for the dueling community was at its prime. There's no feasible way for you to know. Defiled listed some names of the more brilliant saberists this game had to offer. I could easily triple that list and will definitely PM it to you if you're really that curious - and that still wouldn't do the actual amount of players justice. I would say that most of them shared our viewpoints, but in actuality I am the one resurfacing their viewpoints due to the sheer scope of the situation that you may not be able to see. At one point, Sk1nn3r and Fluke's TLP RC1 dueling RP server consistently had more prominent duelists with amazing opinions and voices than he could fit in a full server before the hardcoded 5 minute time limit dissuaded them from playing. Thankfully you still have Tempest and Stassin to a large degree for reference.
This disconnect is one of the reasons it is tremendously difficult for Stassin and Tempest to properly dish out something that can please the active playerbase at this current point in time. This is also why there is such an incomprehensible disconnect on the forums. You may have played and retroactively explored the older builds, but it was a playerbase came before you that created, critiqued, balanced, and lived it.
I've sincerely read most of your statements describing your interpretation of the older builds and with full respect due, I can affirm that it was nothing like what you are depicting. It is not nostalgia, bias or inaccuracy I spent years of my life playing this game with like-minded individuals who shared our collective passion - high tier dueling. I do admire your own passion for the game enough to actually go back and try to make sense of it. I did the exact same thing with Builds 17-19 and I couldn't evaluate the actual mechanics of those builds nearly as much together as what I wanted to, for the exact same reason I'm telling you now.
I'm also not saying hard reset the saber system back to RC1 or RC3. I'm not actively dueling nor have any clue what Stassin or Tempest want to do with the system. I'm only here to present to you a larger perspective of what this game is and used to be. A perspective that truly has been lost for so long it's completely alien to the current playerbase. I only posted on here after realizing that the dueling system and community has entered some dark times with the playerbase being so scarce and disjointed, like how the burning of The Great Library of Alexandria supposedly set humanity back 1000 years (the actual truth to that story is debatable). Some of the arguments here in this thread are filled with fear and incapacity to truly understand, and no one is to blame other than Father Time for not introducing you to this mod sooner.
I'm not here to advocate for or protest against your saber system in V1.5. I just wanted to let you know that we used to have a more fun, more well-received, alternative saber system years ago in my honest opinion. Take that for what you will.
I recognize that it was loved, I recognize that it was popular, I recognize that it worked at the time. I'm not going to name drop people, they can speak for themselves if they wish. However the common consensus I have received when I asked about old builds before my time, was that the system was inconsistent. I have seen tournaments of yours. I've seen gameplay footage. I've listened to Kael's stories and his opinions. I've done my homework. I don't think it was as good as you claim it is.
However, 1.3 wasn't as good as **I** claim it is, but I went back, played it, and recognized it had flaws. What I am trying to accomplish here, is not please everyone. I'm not trying to push to please a minority, or even a majority. My stance here is a purely logical one. Take the best of the last solid stable patch (1.3), and fix what was wrong with it, improve it, and take those improved good features, and bring them over to 1.4.9. I want to get a good stable and skillful patch. As much as you dislike 1.0+ patches, 1.3 allowed for a great deal of versatility in playstyles. So much so that I could easily recognize most aliases on how they played. That was lost in every patch since. I want to regain those little things in a similar fashion that you want to achieve your old nostalgia.
The main difference, is that my goal is far more realistic. It isn't from a completely different system in a past where I don't think there exists code for anymore.
So sure, I may not have experienced the glory days of MB2, but I have experienced my own little slice, and so has the modern MB2 community. I'm just interested in salvaging what we can.
Aaron tried 1.3 and spent most of the time complaining about classic dotf, then losing to Shilling and friends, plus he's always talking about removing everything but yellow/blue/red. So I take everything he says with a molecule of salt.
do you live in another universe or something? you seem to remember stuff no one ever remembers
In 1.3 I remember destroying new players in 1v15s consistently because of my cyan and unparalleled footwork. If you're wondering who taught me how to use cyan, it was Kael, who is arguably the best player to ever play this mod. Because of Kael, I could defeat the top EU duelists like Exodus, Sekundus and even SeV after just 3 months of playing.
I must add that I could PB 99% of my opponent's swings even if they were yawing.
