Rogue One 1st teaser trailer !!

[Razi.]

Fresh out the oven

my panties are wet...

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

Guys, luke was trained by a puppet.
Star wars is like televised wrestling, its goofy and isn't meant to be taken seriously. Its supposed to be fun.

 

[DarthDementous]

Guys, luke was trained by a puppet.
Star wars is like televised wrestling, its goofy and isn't meant to be taken seriously. Its supposed to be fun.

while that example is down to limitations in technology (that scene wasn't trying to be goofy back then) I agree with the overall sentiment. Star Wars movies are primarily for entertainment, the first Star Wars was devised as a popcorn-flick Science-Fiction B movie but it managed to tap into something universal that made it a huge hit. however, the conception of modern Star Wars draws more focus on philosophy than mythology, in TFA you have questions asked about legacy (which to be fair, was a theme in the Originals) and whether there is balance in being powerful in the Light and the Dark or an instability, demonstrated by Ren's character.

Episode V does seem to be the odd one out in this scenario. for all intensive purposes it is a flawless movie, excelling in all fields of film-making. I'm not sure if this was intentional, because if a movie doesn't aspire to be 'high art' yet ends up setting the standard for a genre then its hard to say its a popcorn-flick. there is a depth to Star Wars, but I feel it appeals to a smaller selection of people than the general audience that places value in the thrill of adventure and escapism into a different universe.

 

[GoodOl'Ben]

Just gonna pop by to say that the reason why Rey seems like a Mary Sue is because she was mind-erased by Kylo Ren. I have reason to believe that Kylo spared her during his assault on the Jedi. This connection will ultimately be Kylo's failure as a sith and the key to his redemption.

Just check the movie and see how Kylo reacts to the notion of a girl from Jakku helping Finn escape. After that we can clearly see him being very familiar with her. Not to mention his reaction when he realizes what he did by probing her mind, which ultimately led to unlocking her old memories. Everything after that is Rey beginning to remember her connection with the Force.

Either way, looking forward to this film. It shows great promise on re-telling the Dark Forces story in the new canon. Despite them not including the old names and modifying characters a little, they're doing a fine job clarifying the universe by tidying it up a bit.

I hope we get to see some glimpses of origins for the characters in the new trilogy. I can easily see Jyn Erso being Rey's mother. I also hope to see some more tangible background on Snoke. Hoping that the seemingly sith character in the trailer is Snoke.

 

[Razi.]

You've done precisely what I just warned about. I've predicted this movie and now I've predicted your response. There's nothing else that needs to be said here.

Did you also predict me saying that your post is pretentious, overly-analytical bollocks ? :3

Sorry everyone for responding so late, and kind of offtopic now, seeing as how this thread has diverted sooo much >.<

 

[DarthDementous]

Just gonna pop by to say that the reason why Rey seems like a Mary Sue is because she was mind-erased by Kylo Ren. I have reason to believe that Kylo spared her during his assault on the Jedi. This connection will ultimately be Kylo's failure as a sith and the key to his redemption.

Just check the movie and see how Kylo reacts to the notion of a girl from Jakku helping Finn escape. After that we can clearly see him being very familiar with her. Not to mention his reaction when he realizes what he did by probing her mind, which ultimately led to unlocking her old memories. Everything after that is Rey beginning to remember her connection with the Force.

Either way, looking forward to this film. It shows great promise on re-telling the Dark Forces story in the new canon. Despite them not including the old names and modifying characters a little, they're doing a fine job clarifying the universe by tidying it up a bit.

I hope we get to see some glimpses of origins for the characters in the new trilogy. I can easily see Jyn Erso being Rey's mother. I also hope to see some more tangible background on Snoke. Hoping that the seemingly sith character in the trailer is Snoke.

to avoid disappointment, I wouldn't put much stock into Rogue One featuring any elements from the Dark Forces universe beyond references. that seems to be how the EU is handled for Rebels, so I have reason to believe that's how the Lucasfilm story group is approaching the new canon.

I do like that theory and while it is testament to how some judgment must be reserved when the full story has been revealed, I don't think it was the creator's intention to portray a perfect character because that would mean at first impression Rey is poorly written, something I disagree with.

 

[GoodOl'Ben]

to avoid disappointment, I wouldn't put much stock into Rogue One featuring any elements from the Dark Forces universe beyond references. that seems to be how the EU is handled for Rebels, so I have reason to believe that's how the Lucasfilm story group is approaching the new canon.

I do like that theory and while it is testament to how some judgment must be reserved when the full story has been revealed, I don't think it was the creator's intention to portray a perfect character because that would mean at first impression Rey is poorly written, something I disagree with.

I think they're basically overwriting Dark Forces with something that's fairly close to what it was. I think the Legends moniker for the old EU can be considered a nod that these are the legends of the new EU and until we see a new adaptation of an event, we can assume that the story may have happened, but not precisely as depicted in the old EU.

The goal definitely was not to portray a perfect character. Rey definitely is not that, but her besting Kylo Ren in single combat showcases that she must have had some form of Jedi training prior. How would she be able to pull a mindtrick out of her ass if not for something ticking in the back of her head that tells her that there is such an ability.

 

[Razi.]

Ray beating Kylo in saber combat is often explained with Kylo's injury from the bowcaster. We all know the power and damage that weapon has This, I guess seems kind of reasonable, and also one thing has to be kept in mind - Kylo hasnt had any real jedi fights/encounters besides the ones at the academy, so he is not that skilled in saber combat. Also Rey has some staff skills which can be incorporated in saber combat.

And yeah, the mind trick that she pulled out of her ass was kind of stupid... I would call that something similar to 'Deus ex Machina', I didn't like that part, they could have done something else.

 

[The Unguided]

And yeah, the mind trick that she pulled out of her ass was kind of stupid... I would call that something similar to 'Deus ex Machina', I didn't like that part, they could have done something else.

Luke could destroy the Death Star by using the Force as a beginner force user. Why do you think that a similarly force sensitive person would not be able to accomplish lesser things at the same time?

 

[DarthDementous]

I think the film-makers set up plausible scenarios because of what the film draws attention to before these 'miracles'.

with the mind-trick you have Kylo Ren burrowing deep into her mind, she's witnessing first hand that the Force can be used for mental manipulation. you also see that she starts pushing back into his memories hence her realisation of Ren's insecurity to living up to Darth Vader, it would make sense if Rey saw moments of the mind-trick being used or practised since Kylo Ren is a clearly practised force-user.

Rey's victory over Kylo Ren is actually quite cleverly handled and choreographed. Kylo Ren clearly has some degree of skill as a saber user, defeating Finn (who presumably has basic combat training with the First Order batons) while being seriously injured from the Bowcaster shot. the film shows that the wound is hampering his abilities because Ren takes a step away from Finn to beat the wound in an attempt to dull it before continuing, this also allows for Finn to get a lucky shot in before being incapacitated because the pain is distracting Kylo Ren. when its Rey's turn you'll notice that she's literally running and ducking away from Kylo, she's utterly terrified and out of her depth. think about what Rey has just gone through. the closest thing she's had to a father figure was murdered, her only friend is presumably dead and there's hate broiling towards Kylo Ren ("You're a monster!"). only until she's pushed to the edge of the cliff and afforded time to focus, give in completely to the Force and possibly the Dark Side, is she able to heighten her abilities. you'll notice that each blow she delivers looks like she's using her staff but the sheer power behind it is what forces Kylo Ren back. the connection to the Force is what allows her to defeat Kylo Ren based on raw primal Force energy, just like the final duel of Luke vs. Vader. I have reason to believe that Rey also tapped into the Darkside because of the circumstances and the brutality she exhibits against Ren just as Luke did against Vader.

 

[GoodOl'Ben]

Luke could destroy the Death Star by using the Force as a beginner force user. Why do you think that a similarly force sensitive person would not be able to accomplish lesser things at the same time?

I personally find that shot being fairly basic for a Force sensitive. Being able to focus on one shot while guided by your mentor ghosting over you. Especially for someone as potent with the Force as Luke.

However being able to succeed in a long duel against a trained Force user? You essentially need to do multiple one-in-a-million shots.

 

[Phelps]

with the mind-trick you have Kylo Ren burrowing deep into her mind, she's witnessing first hand that the Force can be used for mental manipulation. you also see that she starts pushing back into his memories hence her realisation of Ren's insecurity to living up to Darth Vader, it would make sense if Rey saw moments of the mind-trick being used or practised since Kylo Ren is a clearly practised force-user.

Trying to beat this over the haters head all the time, when such whiny argument is being said. I mean, even the movie shows, why Rey is capable of probing one's mind with the Force: Kylo showed her himself. Why wouldn't you assume, that you can control another minds, even lesser as double-oh-seven-gone-stormtrooper mind, if you just had mind trick fight with much powerful Dark Side user?

And as for the duel, people keep forgetting that bowcaster shot into his stomach. But how the hell did he survive it (the Force?) is another question, one, I would like to have addressed in the next movie.


Also, careful, anti-SJWs, so as you won't be the other side of absolutes. Everytime a female character pops up, your alarm will blare, as much SJW's alarms blare for macho line up. I am kind of on your side, but don't over do it. You are already giving the fight a bad name, seeing PC agenda all over the place. It's annoying. And that's coming from a guy that watches Paul J. Watson. And I guess my statement back in the day on racism on the servers thread says a lot about myself too.

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

@ChaostheChaotic
my argument is that based on the hard-to-define nature of the term Mary Sue (that's what I mean by non-term, something without clear qualities),

-------TV Tropes doesn't get to set what the term means; the best we can do is capture the way it is used. Since there's no consensus on a precise definition, the best way to describe the phenomenon is by example of the kind of character pretty much everyone could agree to be a Mary Sue. These traits usually reference the character's perceived importance in the story, their physical design and an irrelevantly over-skilled or over-idealized nature.--------

I guess some people don't have the wherewithal to grasp the general archetype. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

and how its not acknowledged as a critical descriptor

Hahahahahahhahah. By who? You? zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

(you won't see professional reviews calling Rey a Mary Sue)

Hahahahhahahaha. Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one. I take as much stock in that statement as I do *professional* reviews in general.
Sheep that can't think for themselves relying on others to make determinations.

, that Rey fits the hero archetype more - like Luke. regardless what is perceived, this is most logically the intention of the creators. feel free to dispute the monomyth, but do provide clear examples if you want to have an effective argument.

I've already proven she's a Mary Sue. You claiming she's a hero archetype....without actually backing it up with anything other than saying it....what a doofus.
Monomyth? Are you special? Whose disputing that? Christ. You don't even know what you're arguing...Quick, lets be as general as possible so we're right and true

- Luke making the incredibly unlikely shot into a very small exhaust port is implausible if it weren't for the Force. similarly, Rey's ability to pilot the Falcon (although under less duress, only about 3 tie fighters were pursuing) is down to Force intuition, heightening the reflexes and senses of the user.

That dear boy, is ASSUMPTION. It's clear from the get-go that Luke is using the force and being helped by the whispering voice of Ben
Whereas Rey, nothing in the movie at that point, or even later, to say it was through the Force. You can dismiss all her abilities as The Force.
Life's a lot simpler if you're willing to believe...anything. Sucker.
That's almost as funny as the numerous beyond the gap logic leaps in how they locate one another scene after scene. Must have been the Force. Destiny and all that. Not bad writing.

- if you're comparing the Death Star Assault to the assault on Starkiller Base then the amount of preparation done for each is the same, if not more in the case of TFA.

Stop you right there. Opinions and assumptions are not facts. You can argue but to definitely say this or that...nope.

And fyi, in the OT they knew about the DS or at least a weapon that the Empire was developing, from the get-go. It was clear they had done tons of work to infiltrate and whatever.
Whereas in TFA, surprise motherfuckers, Deathstar Planet. Boom. They didn't even know about it. It was all about finding Luke, remember? DeathStar 3.0 came out of left field to the Rebel Alliance, or whatever this copy called themselves.

!!Thank God you flipped our Janitor over to your side. He can give the location and the specs...of an entire planet? hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!

you have Finn outlining the design of the base, Resistance generals identifying the weak-point in the thermal oscillator. in ANH you have the Rebellion analysing the Death Star plans and finding the weak-point in the exhaust vent. however in TFA, Finn and co. actually have to land on the planet, get inside the base, and disable the shields.

And apparently Han and Chewie, brilliant pilots have managed to figure out a way to bypass any type of shield. Convenient
Running into Phasma and her folding like a little bitch instead of shouting for guards. Convenient.
Space Janitor knowing the details of the base and secret location. Convenient.
Please, don't bring up this shit again. Having flashbacks to what the shit that kind of movie was.

- the heroes remaining undetected on a space station the size of a moon no doubt manned by many is a suspension of disbelief for the practicality of the story. however, TFA does the exact same thing when Rey traverses through Starkiller Base with Han, Chewie and Finn so how is there a difference in the suspension of disbelief required there?

The degree of believability . Not a hard concept. But if you see no difference between:

Disguised as stormtroopers and using jedi mind tricks vs not disguised and walking around like its nobody's business.
Vs R2 hacking the system to find out that the Princess is on board and her location to Rey running around, avoiding dozens of patrols, manages to be seen by the only people that aren't out to harm her - yep.

You're beyond help if fail to grasp the point here.

- the sequence on the Sailbarge would've worked much better if Luke actually looked like he had been training. watch the scene again, the movements he makes are so sluggish and uncoordinated and the guards are so slow to react. it looks clunky, with the bad guys dying as easily as Boba Fett when Han hit his jetpack (come to think of it, both Han and Luke's combat abilities in that scenario looked pretty similar).

Nah, not going to. Watched the movie enough times that I can safely say, never got that impression or had that thought cross my mind.
Unlike when I watched the fight scenes in TFA.

if we're to ignore the execution and focus on the intention of the scene, that Luke has become stronger in the Force and his abilities, then that doesn't excuse him defeating the Rancor only to succumb to the same number of guards that were on the Sailbarge. the only difference is that he had the element of surprise, something he surely could've done when the hatch popped open and the denizens inspected the corpse of the Rancor.

Did you even watch the move bro?

Just gonna pop by to say that the reason why Rey seems like a Mary Sue is because she was mind-erased by Kylo Ren. I have reason to believe that Kylo spared her during his assault on the Jedi. This connection will ultimately be Kylo's failure as a sith and the key to his redemption.

Just check the movie and see how Kylo reacts to the notion of a girl from Jakku helping Finn escape. After that we can clearly see him being very familiar with her. Not to mention his reaction when he realizes what he did by probing her mind, which ultimately led to unlocking her old memories. Everything after that is Rey beginning to remember her connection with the Force.

Seen that theory. Still just a theory. To me, its a desperate attempt to legitimatize the various leaps you have to make in the film. Something you shouldn't have to do in a contained film, even if its a trilogy.
And that argument is rendered moot since they didnt even have the next episode hashed out...

So meh.

Luke could destroy the Death Star by using the Force as a beginner force user. Why do you think that a similarly force sensitive person would not be able to accomplish lesser things at the same time?

Making a hard shot with the force vs out-forcing a powerful, experienced user against a neophyte who doesn't even know about the force? This is why the memory loss idea is so appealing. It can't be as bad as what we really saw..right? I guess the next movie will answer that definitively.

I think the film-makers set up plausible scenarios because of what the film draws attention to before these 'miracles'.

with the mind-trick you have Kylo Ren burrowing deep into her mind, she's witnessing first hand that the Force can be used for mental manipulation. you also see that she starts pushing back into his memories hence her realisation of Ren's insecurity to living up to Darth Vader, it would make sense if Rey saw moments of the mind-trick being used or practised since Kylo Ren is a clearly practised force-user.

Rey's victory over Kylo Ren is actually quite cleverly handled and choreographed. Kylo Ren clearly has some degree of skill as a saber user, defeating Finn (who presumably has basic combat training with the First Order batons) while being seriously injured from the Bowcaster shot. the film shows that the wound is hampering his abilities because Ren takes a step away from Finn to beat the wound in an attempt to dull it before continuing, this also allows for Finn to get a lucky shot in before being incapacitated because the pain is distracting Kylo Ren. when its Rey's turn you'll notice that she's literally running and ducking away from Kylo, she's utterly terrified and out of her depth. think about what Rey has just gone through. the closest thing she's had to a father figure was murdered, her only friend is presumably dead and there's hate broiling towards Kylo Ren ("You're a monster!"). only until she's pushed to the edge of the cliff and afforded time to focus, give in completely to the Force and possibly the Dark Side, is she able to heighten her abilities. you'll notice that each blow she delivers looks like she's using her staff but the sheer power behind it is what forces Kylo Ren back. the connection to the Force is what allows her to defeat Kylo Ren based on raw primal Force energy, just like the final duel of Luke vs. Vader. I have reason to believe that Rey also tapped into the Darkside because of the circumstances and the brutality she exhibits against Ren just as Luke did against Vader.

That's how you saw it? Lulz. Kylo was dominating Rey, spanking her like a Priest would an altar boy, until she had her little moment and went Super Jedi.
To most rational people with some standards, it was - what the shit is this? To others...see above.

I personally find that shot being fairly basic for a Force sensitive. Being able to focus on one shot while guided by your mentor ghosting over you. Especially for someone as potent with the Force as Luke.

However being able to succeed in a long duel against a trained Force user? You essentially need to do multiple one-in-a-million shots.

This.

Trying to beat this over the haters head all the time, when such whiny argument is being said. I mean, even the movie shows, why Rey is capable of probing one's mind with the Force: Kylo showed her himself. Why wouldn't you assume, that you can control another minds, even lesser as double-oh-seven-gone-stormtrooper mind, if you just had mind trick fight with much powerful Dark Side user?

No, it doesn't show WHY. She just instantly knows how to do it. With ZERO explanation. She can mimick it instantly, as she's experiencing it for the first time, while she's being tortured. Look, we got another Messiah here. Now that's an argument for the sheer amount of miracles here.

 

[DarthDementous]

@ChaostheChaotic

it is quite ignorant of you to dismiss everything I say as assumption or speculation when I back it up with clear and precise evidence. you haven't put forward either of that towards Rey being a Mary Sue.
I'll look at your deriding posts that claim I have no evidence and point you towards the evidence I have clearly stated in my posts. shall we begin?

"-------TV Tropes doesn't get to set what the term means; the best we can do is capture the way it is used. Since there's no consensus on a precise definition, the best way to describe the phenomenon is by example of the kind of character pretty much everyone could agree to be a Mary Sue. These traits usually reference the character's perceived importance in the story, their physical design and an irrelevantly over-skilled or over-idealized nature.--------

I guess some people don't have the wherewithal to grasp the general archetype. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz."

comically, TvTropes says they don't get to capture how its used or that there's a precise definition. what they've detailed is for the purpose of describing the phenomenon, what the people generally agree to be what Mary Sue means. seeing as how its not a properly recognised word or term, that's all there is to go on.

"Hahahahhahahaha. Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one. I take as much stock in that statement as I do *professional* reviews in general.
Sheep that can't think for themselves relying on others to make determinations."

generally, people who write for websites aren't chosen for their experience in film-making so you're right to say that they're equal to the opinion of you and I, and it can be hard to find an unbiased review.
For better and worse, The Force Awakens returns Star Wars to its roots
this seems nice and mixed, no mention of the term 'Mary Sue'.
Film Review: ‘Star Wars: The Force Awakens’
this leans a bit more to the positive side, once again no mention of 'Mary Sue'. what I'm saying is that this term doesn't hold much weight when analysing a movie, especially something of a super-hero style film like this one. of course, feel free to prove me wrong if you can produce the evidence.
to briefly go into more of what I mean, a valid criticism of a character would be that they don't feel realistic - which is what I'm assuming you're getting at with 'Mary Sue'. it is true that Rey has extraordinary abilities, but the way she uses and reacts to them is so genuine. she's constantly surprising herself and you can see it in Daisy Ridley's performance, when she's flying the Falcon she's nervous repeating the mantra "I can do this." and overjoyed when they finally do escape, the look of surprise on her face as she calls the lightsaber to her, the unsureness of the first attempt at the mind-trick - she responds like a human in these scenarios. Mary Sue characters tend to be overconfident, hence the feeling of unrealism which is why I believe Rey does not fit this description.

"I've already proven she's a Mary Sue. You claiming she's a hero archetype....without actually backing it up with anything other than saying it....what a doofus.
Monomyth? Are you special? Whose disputing that? Christ. You don't even know what you're arguing...Quick, lets be as general as possible so we're right and true"

here's your evidence for Rey being a Mary Sue, taken from all of your posts:

"Because she is one. Because a lot of people are saying it it must not be true because..........you don't agree with it? That's your opinion but I think you're at best, in denial"

funny, a lot of people are saying that TFA is a good movie but you don't agree with it. by your logic, you must be in denial!
(btw here's your proof: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens, Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens)
even the user-score on Metacritic which is normally very low sits at 6.9. that's a lot of people that think the movie is good, yet I recognise that something being popular doesn't make it good or true - its all down to opinion. your claim is that TFA is bad, that's your opinion and that's fine. claiming that the overall response is negative is plain false though.

"As long as it's believable. I don't mind the damsels, the lesbians, the bitches, the feminists....just please God, no more Mary Sues!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The "I can anything" shit always brings down the movie, any movie."

"When people call Rey a Mary Sue - an annoyingly perfect character, the I can anything type.
Comparing Luke to her? Seriously? Laughable nonsense. Lost a hand, struggles, training vs...gee, I closed my eyes and suddenly can do anything.
Lulz at how you try to dismiss the term based on its origin. OMFG, it originated from Star Trek! So fucking what? Fanfiction? So fucking what?
Good lord, as I said, asinine.

Get out of here. Strong and independent? You mean paper thin and hardly believable? Within the movie and the rules set there-in in case you harp on that."

"Rey can out-fight a soldier that trained all their life.
Can out-mind-trick a practiced force wielder, can out-saber a practiced saber user, without effort or thought."[/quote]

"Which Rey clearly was in TFA. Mary Sues here, there, everywhere!!"[/quote]

whole lot of claims, barely any evidence. funny, weren't you saying that about my argument that Rey fits the hero's archetype more?


but first, the rest of your post:

"That dear boy, is ASSUMPTION. It's clear from the get-go that Luke is using the force and being helped by the whispering voice of Ben
Whereas Rey, nothing in the movie at that point, or even later, to say it was through the Force. You can dismiss all her abilities as The Force.
Life's a lot simpler if you're willing to believe...anything. Sucker.
That's almost as funny as the numerous beyond the gap logic leaps in how they locate one another scene after scene. Must have been the Force. Destiny and all that. Not bad writing."

not the Force? by the end of the movie its incredibly obvious Rey has latent force abilities, the most obvious evidence being her calling the lightsaber to her. the next obvious piece of evidence that Rey is using the Force is funnily enough in the duel that you take the most issue with. on the cliff edge, Rey closes her eyes. that alone would be enough, except she literally mumbles "The Force..." before doing it, as if it couldn't be more obvious. so nope, not bad writing because there's clear sign-posts that show how she accomplishes those miraculous feats.

"Stop you right there. Opinions and assumptions are not facts. You can argue but to definitely say this or that...nope.

And fyi, in the OT they knew about the DS or at least a weapon that the Empire was developing, from the get-go. It was clear they had done tons of work to infiltrate and whatever.
Whereas in TFA, surprise motherfuckers, Deathstar Planet. Boom. They didn't even know about it. It was all about finding Luke, remember? DeathStar 3.0 came out of left field to the Rebel Alliance, or whatever this copy called themselves.

!!Thank God you flipped our Janitor over to your side. He can give the location and the specs...of an entire planet? hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!"

correct, the Death Star was a known entity but obviously its location wasn't because it kept jumping around. the Resistance became painfully aware of Starkiller Base when it straight up destroyed the Republic (as its said in the movie "The Republic...it's gone.") and so destroying that newly-revealed super weapon became priority for obvious reasons. Finn isn't a janitor, he was stationed on Starkiller Base for sanitation duty like in a real military where they rotate positions when they're not needed in combat. you think they'd send a janitor in to pacify the fugitive resistance at the start of the movie? Finn knows about Starkiller Base because he's been sanctioned on it, and says as much in TFA.

"And apparently Han and Chewie, brilliant pilots have managed to figure out a way to bypass any type of shield. Convenient
Running into Phasma and her folding like a little bitch instead of shouting for guards. Convenient.
Space Janitor knowing the details of the base and secret location. Convenient.
Please, don't bring up this shit again. Having flashbacks to what the shit that kind of movie was."

the Phasma part was odd, obviously no movie is without its flaws, but its so insignificant it doesn't detract from much for me. you mean that way of bypassing that involved jumping through light-speed to get past the shield refresh rate and almost crashing because of the speed and closeness to the terrain? any other pilot would be screwed, so the shield is still a good defense.

"The degree of believability . Not a hard concept. But if you see no difference between:

Disguised as stormtroopers and using jedi mind tricks vs not disguised and walking around like its nobody's business.
Vs R2 hacking the system to find out that the Princess is on board and her location to Rey running around, avoiding dozens of patrols, manages to be seen by the only people that aren't out to harm her - yep.

You're beyond help if fail to grasp the point here."

come to think of it, the Death Star rescue was handled appropriately stealthy. there's still suspension of disbelief required though, the Imperials become very aware that there's Rebels aboard the station and logically should've sent squadrons of stormtroopers to head them off. the station is the size of a moon after-all, surely there'd be thousands of stormtroopers available. Finn and Han finding Rey is pure coincidence, something that happens a lot in movies for the sake of the plot. this is also something that happens a lot in the OT, let me know if you want me to cite specific examples.

"Nah, not going to. Watched the movie enough times that I can safely say, never got that impression or had that thought cross my mind.
Unlike when I watched the fight scenes in TFA."

heh, I too have watched ROTJ many times but you'll find it holds up less when you watch it again. there was a degree of nostalgia and misremembering that prevented me from seeing its flaws. watch it again and honestly tell me that the Sailbarge assault had tighter choreography and action than TFA. and don't just say that it did, use evidence to back it up like I did:

"The sequence on the Sailbarge would've worked much better if Luke actually looked like he had been training. watch the scene again, the movements he makes are so sluggish and uncoordinated and the guards are so slow to react. it looks clunky, with the bad guys dying as easily as Boba Fett when Han hit his jetpack (come to think of it, both Han and Luke's combat abilities in that scenario looked pretty similar). if we're to ignore the execution and focus on the intention of the scene, that Luke has become stronger in the Force and his abilities, then that doesn't excuse him defeating the Rancor only to succumb to the same number of guards that were on the Sailbarge. the only difference is that he had the element of surprise, something he surely could've done when the hatch popped open and the denizens inspected the corpse of the Rancor."

"Did you even watch the move bro? "

sure did, look at this, there's about 4 guards that practically ignore Luke:

"Making a hard shot with the force vs out-forcing a powerful, experienced user against a neophyte who doesn't even know about the force? This is why the memory loss idea is so appealing. It can't be as bad as what we really saw..right? I guess the next movie will answer that definitively."

I've already explained before how Rey knows about the Force and how we see her gradually learn to use those new abilities (heightened senses/awareness - piloting the Millenium Falcon, mind manipulation - MTing the First Order stormtrooper, opening herself up to the Force - Strength to defeat Kylo Ren).

"No, it doesn't show WHY. She just instantly knows how to do it. With ZERO explanation. She can mimick it instantly, as she's experiencing it for the first time, while she's being tortured. Look, we got another Messiah here. Now that's an argument for the sheer amount of miracles here."

already given plausible reasoning for Rey to be able to use the mind-trick.

now, lets get to this statement which is objectively wrong. I've shown how you've provided no clear evidence to support Rey being a Mary Sue yet you went one step further by saying this:

"I've already proven she's a Mary Sue. You claiming she's a hero archetype....without actually backing it up with anything other than saying it....what a doofus.
Monomyth? Are you special? Whose disputing that? Christ. You don't even know what you're arguing...Quick, lets be as general as possible so we're right and true"

not backing up her being a hero archetype? hello @ChaostheChaotic, this post of mine would like a word with you:
Rogue One 1st teaser trailer !! | Page 4 | Movie Battles II Community


whew, that was extensive. hopefully this'll stop your plainly false and proven to be hypocritical statements that I'm making claims that aren't backed up with evidence!

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

Jesus this is worse than me and puppy.

 

[Megatron (The Shredder)]

OMG please stop with the derailing and find another thread to post Star Wars TFA discussion or something.

Giant walls of text hurt my eyes.

 

[DarthDementous]

OMG please stop with the derailing and find another thread to post Star Wars TFA discussion or something.

Giant walls of text hurt my eyes.

I agree with it being off-topic but you've undermined your whole argument by making a post that is also off-topic. 10/10

I'm happy to talk about something else once actual Rogue One discussion is generated, but until then its still loosely related because they're both modern Star Wars films, and a way to inform some stylistic decisions that may be taken in Rogue One.

I'm sorry to hear that reading physically pains you.

EDIT: improved formatting on the lengthy post.

 

[Jorge]

The end.