rage wookiee

[qwerty]

why is it so strong? it takes no skill to use and the only reliable counterplay to it is staying at least 20m away from every wookiee and every spot where a wookiee might be hiding. it absolutely dominates cramped areas like gen corridor/small storage on lunar and small maps like smuggler especially when there's multiple people using it because it takes so long to burn through their damage reduction.

i really just dont see fury belonging in the game right now, it's the most rock/paper/scissors mechanic where some classes (ets, soldiers, bounty hunters, sbds) have absolutely no counterplay in a 1v1 or even a 1v2, the other 3 can pretty much only run away provided the right circumstances (if youre a sith you can jump on a high box if there is one, if youre a mando you can fly provided you had enough space to begin with to turn on your jetpack, dekas can roll away). the only reliable way to kill a raging wookiee is to have both a lot of space and preferably multiple teammates shooting him. red used to be the only soft counter to it but now that wookiees can barge through block and crouch it's pretty much gone

fury on average is not overpowered and that's not what i'm saying. it's just in certain situations it's so impossible to deal with and that combined with the fact that it takes 0 skill to execute optimally makes it very unfun to play against.

if redesigning fury is too much work (i would personally love to see something similar to what hex had in mind with his rework where rage would be converted into healing or a temporary shield, especially seeing how squishy bowcaster wookiee is) i would suggest removing the movespeed buff and reducing the damage buff they get from fury. this way 1v1ing a wookiee would be much more realistic because you'd be able to kite them and the damage nerf would mean they wouldn't be able to 1vX as easily. keeping them fairly durable but kiteable would preserve their ability to disrupt defences by forcing the imperials to reposition and keep their distance but it'd significantly nerf their 1v1 potential

 

[Deleted member 8306]

idk but remoeve dodge

 

[Fluffy |>]

make bowcaster wook more viable

 

[Stassin]

make melee rage wook require aiming at the head/neck hit location and for every melee hit missed the wook loses balance and tumbles down

 

[RogueWookiee]

make melee rage wook require aiming at the head/neck hit location and for every melee hit missed the wook loses balance and tumbles down

rofl, this is you being serious

 

[Vioxini]

Soldier vs Wookie with Fury, directly impossible. No way to kill, escape or simply run, and it is probably Oneshot punch.
But honestly, can't think of any improvement to it.

 

[SeV]

I know this is probably an unpopular opinion, but I believe that rage wookiee is a piece of shit that should never have been in the game and that the best way to fix this is to remove it, and vastly flesh out the wooks toolkit as a bowcaster and gunner. Perhaps give it some melee abilities to complement its bowcaster use, like gunbash but a larger range similar to SBD slap. Maybe give it a gun-barge for points. Give it bowcaster attachments like bouncy shots or bursts or something.

 

[Vioxini]

I know this is probably an unpopular opinion, but I believe that rage wookiee is a piece of shit that should never have been in the game and that the best way to fix this is to remove it, and vastly flesh out the wooks toolkit as a bowcaster and gunner. Perhaps give it some melee abilities to complement its bowcaster use, like gunbash but a larger range similar to SBD slap. Maybe give it a gun-barge for points. Give it bowcaster attachments like bouncy shots or bursts or something.

I agree. Bowcaster should be given either more accuracy or some other improvement to its secondary shot. Currently, secondary shoot of Bowcaster is pretty useless.

 

[Jay Brando]

I agree. Bowcaster should be given either more accuracy or some other improvement to its secondary shot. Currently, secondary shoot of Bowcaster is pretty useless.

i disagree that charged bowcaster shots are useless because you can charge it around a corner and 1shot ppl sometimes. But to invest the points in it isnt worth it to me when rage and strength and health exist instead.

maybe rage should just give flat damage reduction and a ~5% running/walking speed boost. pretty simple idea to keep rage as a concept, maybe there's better more complex ones.

 

[Duckshark]

One fact of rage that makes no sense is that it can be stored for a decent duration of time. What if rage was something that could only be toggled after getting a kill and couldn't be stored, this prevent fishing kills and activating rage later, and simply nerf the time rage lasts and the movespeed of rage wook so you can't run down any class that isn't deka/mando. Of couse, this idea would necessitate a slight speed up of the rage animation so you don't get stuck too long, but would make it more realistic and logical and fill in the room-clearing aspect of wookie with deliberately burst dps rather than random "lol i do more dmg and am fast and u can't kill me now lul ez". This would make raging more of a choice in combat and make trading hp for dmg reduction and more dmg/speed a choice rather than suicide. Notice how many rage wookies simply sit in a corner until they can fish 1 kill then go on a rampage killing 5 more; this is not peak mb2 gameplay and should not be encouraged.

Also, release the goddamn caster overhaul so melee wook goes out of fashion, they ain't madclaws and should not have dmg to match.

 

[Deleted member 8306]

One fact of rage that makes no sense is that it can be stored for a decent duration of time. What if rage was something that could only be toggled after getting a kill and couldn't be stored, this prevent fishing kills and activating rage later, and simply nerf the time rage lasts and the movespeed of rage wook so you can't run down any class that isn't deka/mando. Of couse, this idea would necessitate a slight speed up of the rage animation so you don't get stuck too long, but would make it more realistic and logical and fill in the room-clearing aspect of wookie with deliberately burst dps rather than random "lol i do more dmg and am fast and u can't kill me now lul ez". This would make raging more of a choice in combat and make trading hp for dmg reduction and more dmg/speed a choice rather than suicide. Notice how many rage wookies simply sit in a corner until they can fish 1 kill then go on a rampage killing 5 more; this is not peak mb2 gameplay and should not be encouraged.

Also, release the goddamn caster overhaul so melee wook goes out of fashion, they ain't madclaws and should not have dmg to match.

good point but when will tempest patch be out?

 

[Duckshark]

Actually screw it let's type out the fuck current wookie manifesto:

Ok, why does it have grenades? for room clearing? it has 400 hp and a bowcaster and melee for that. Fuck it, let's just give wookie an UNBLOCKABLE KNOCKDOWN so he can blast/melee you to pieces. Logic. If necessary for actual room clearing make it a "wookie grenade" and remove its sec nade function.

Why does caster have a scope???? For... long ranged combat? sniping? There is no purpose for a frontline tank class to have a charged shot sniper scope. There is no reason for scope to exist. Republic Commando was a good game but had a bad idea about casters. REMOVE.

Why does caster charge shot function the way it does? A single up to 240 dmg shot? I don't get it. You want rebs to have a tank class that blasts its way through massive firepower but has a big hitbox to match. Okay, so let's give it a charge shot so it camps in a corner and doesn't fight out in the open, ever. :| I know everyone thinks shotguns are stupid, but a multi-shot round (like base jka but wayyyy tighter so it needs a good amount of aim but shreds ppl out of cover with multi-hits) would actually serve to make wookie a front-line tank and still encourage aim if the individual shots did less dmg but hitting multiple stacked dmg. Devs, I know you've said that multi-bolt weapons are hard, so i'll give u a pass if this can't happen. Would not be opposed to charge shot doing splash damage but ONLY if sith can deflect it without taking dmg, perhaps staggering running gunners and with like proj level knockback. Would actually encourage following up on a charge shot rather than only ever camping charge shot.

Why does gunbash exist? Does minimal damage, has no side effects, has cooldown longer than just holding right click in melee. You want to encourage bowcaster so you give bowcaster a useless melee move. At that point just switch to melee and hold either mouse button, lol. Either buff it to be useful in conjuction with nerfing melee or remove.

Why does barge stagger crouching sith? Red sith used to be the only up-close counter to rage wookie. Ok, you think crouch swinging is too easy, so let's give wookie a move that staggers the sith so long they invariably die to follow up punches. smh. Either HEAVILY reduce stagger time so the sith can still counter if the wookie is reckless, or just remove the stagger entirely, it's dumb.

One fact of rage that makes no sense is that it can be stored for a decent duration of time. What if rage was something that could only be toggled after getting a kill and couldn't be stored, this prevent fishing kills and activating rage later, and simply nerf the time rage lasts and the movespeed of rage wook so you can't run down any class that isn't deka/mando. Of couse, this idea would necessitate a slight speed up of the rage animation so you don't get stuck too long, but would make it more realistic and logical and fill in the room-clearing aspect of wookie with deliberately burst dps rather than random "lol i do more dmg and am fast and u can't kill me now lul ez". This would make raging more of a choice in combat and make trading hp for dmg reduction and more dmg/speed a choice rather than suicide. Notice how many rage wookies simply sit in a corner until they can fish 1 kill then go on a rampage killing 5 more; this is not peak mb2 gameplay and should not be encouraged.

Why is wookie movement slow unless in melee? Logically i suppose it's because a melee wook needs to get up close and needs that speed to match, whereas a caster wookie should be a bigger target. Fine, alright. Then why is running caster under level 3 so inaccurate? It's not a spray and pray gun, and if you're already moving slow and with a big hitbox it makes no sense that your aim is nerfed too.

Why does melee exist in general? W+Left click gameplay is discouraged for jedi/sith but somehow encouraged for wookie. Taking a long look at the skill floor, effectiveness, gameplay style, role and current kit for this class, I believe it has one of the most illogical, mind-boggling class loadouts and playstyles for its role and needs a radical change.

 

[Deleted member 8306]

"dont come to deathstar tomorrow" -duckshark

 

[kcaz759]

Actually screw it let's type out the fuck current wookie manifesto:

Ok, why does it have grenades? for room clearing? it has 400 hp and a bowcaster and melee for that. Fuck it, let's just give wookie an UNBLOCKABLE KNOCKDOWN so he can blast/melee you to pieces. Logic. If necessary for actual room clearing make it a "wookie grenade" and remove its sec nade function.

Why does caster have a scope???? For... long ranged combat? sniping? There is no purpose for a frontline tank class to have a charged shot sniper scope. There is no reason for scope to exist. Republic Commando was a good game but had a bad idea about casters. REMOVE.

Why does caster charge shot function the way it does? A single up to 240 dmg shot? I don't get it. You want rebs to have a tank class that blasts its way through massive firepower but has a big hitbox to match. Okay, so let's give it a charge shot so it camps in a corner and doesn't fight out in the open, ever. :| I know everyone thinks shotguns are stupid, but a multi-shot round (like base jka but wayyyy tighter so it needs a good amount of aim but shreds ppl out of cover with multi-hits) would actually serve to make wookie a front-line tank and still encourage aim if the individual shots did less dmg but hitting multiple stacked dmg. Devs, I know you've said that multi-bolt weapons are hard, so i'll give u a pass if this can't happen. Would not be opposed to charge shot doing splash damage but ONLY if sith can deflect it without taking dmg, perhaps staggering running gunners and with like proj level knockback. Would actually encourage following up on a charge shot rather than only ever camping charge shot.

Why does gunbash exist? Does minimal damage, has no side effects, has cooldown longer than just holding right click in melee. You want to encourage bowcaster so you give bowcaster a useless melee move. At that point just switch to melee and hold either mouse button, lol. Either buff it to be useful in conjuction with nerfing melee or remove.

Why does barge stagger crouching sith? Red sith used to be the only up-close counter to rage wookie. Ok, you think crouch swinging is too easy, so let's give wookie a move that staggers the sith so long they invariably die to follow up punches. smh. Either HEAVILY reduce stagger time so the sith can still counter if the wookie is reckless, or just remove the stagger entirely, it's dumb.



Why is wookie movement slow unless in melee? Logically i suppose it's because a melee wook needs to get up close and needs that speed to match, whereas a caster wookie should be a bigger target. Fine, alright. Then why is running caster under level 3 so inaccurate? It's not a spray and pray gun, and if you're already moving slow and with a big hitbox it makes no sense that your aim is nerfed too.

Why does melee exist in general? W+Left click gameplay is discouraged for jedi/sith but somehow encouraged for wookie. Taking a long look at the skill floor, effectiveness, gameplay style, role and current kit for this class, I believe it has one of the most illogical, mind-boggling class loadouts and playstyles for its role and needs a radical change.

I will agree with the Nade point. Not being able to be knocked down negates the point of having a nade because you already have a huge
advantage over sith anyways. A nade is very useful for a room clearing so I think a specialized grenade for Wookiee would be better without the sec nade function.

I think the scope is very useful for a Wookiee Yes it is a heavy tank class but it cant always take the brunt of the force like jedi. It needs a scope especially if you shoot down a hallway. A hallway is a sniper fest so having a scope negates a little of their power over you. Big open areas also require a scope especially if a sniper is behind cover. I think you should have the at least the option of adding a scope to your bowcaster. The multi bolt shot is also a good idea to counter a scope as it gives you more damage but you must be closer. Choosing between of these gives the class other options.

Gunbash is actually a very strong move. It staggers the sith you use it against but requires precision. It honestly should be kept for those who dont want to invest points into melee. Gun bash is not weak and actually provides even more superiority over sith.

Personally I dont think barge should stagger sith because what you said is very sound. Its a good counter against wook so it should be nerfed.

Wookie movement is slow with a bowcaster because the thing ways a ton. Also nerfs wookiee from being able to completely outpace a sith by having a great movement speed like melee.

Bow caster 2 and 3 have relatively the same accuracy. Difference between is really just rate of fire. They both do the same amount of damage 34 for body hit. They both have charge shot and scope.

Honestly I think melee wook is cool and if you use it good on you. Dont really have an opinion on melee wook other than the fact that its scary sometimes.

 

[Preston]

wook not op

 

[Kodar]

Melee wook is generally fine considering it is entirely predicated on either:
A) being on defense, which is incredibly unlikely
B) catching an imp out of position, successfully getting enough hits to get significant rage, and this assumes they can get away without taking a fuck load of damage in this time frame.
Melee wook is good, yeah, but they have some significant weaknesses. Their strengths just tend to shine due to bad play on imps.

Caster wook is both good and terrible. Caster slaps, but that 400 hp is hilariously fragile considering big target + headshots easy to hit + the gun requires walking to be accurate making them even easier to hit + naturally slow.

 

[Arthas]

Melee wook is good, yeah, but they have some significant weaknesses. Their strengths just tend to shine due to bad play on imps.

Yeah... pretty much agree with this. T-21 absolutely shreds wook and smart players wont be anywhere close if they have any idea of where he is. Not to mention half the classes can run faster than wook even when he has fists out. I think becoming a freight train is a good reward for managing to get melee kills on a imp team with half a brain. The only frustrating part is that it only takes 1 bad imp to make a melee wook become said train, which is why maybe a tweak in the amount of rage you get per kill is in order.

 

[RogueWookiee]

Yeah... pretty much agree with this. T-21 absolutely shreds wook and smart players wont be anywhere close if they have any idea of where he is. Not to mention half the classes can run faster than wook even when he has fists out. I think becoming a freight train is a good reward for managing to get melee kills on a imp team with half a brain. The only frustrating part is that it only takes 1 bad imp to make a melee wook become said train, which is why maybe a tweak in the amount of rage you get per kill is in order.

this ^

 

[qwerty]

smart players wont be anywhere close if they have any idea of where he is

this is such a dumb way to look at it and i adressed it in the OP. is being 100% passive and waiting for the rebs to push what you think should be the optimal defensive strategy at all times? is it a good mechanic if the only counterplay to it is to stay 50 feet away at all times from anywhere a wookiee is/may be? that's the whole point, it's retarded that it's so easy to get ambushed and instakilled by a build that takes 0 skill and has no counterplay

think becoming a freight train is a good reward for managing to get melee kills on a imp team with half a brain.

how does this make sense in your head. why should you become an unstoppable killing machine that can press w+m1 to mow down multiple enemies for free just because you managed to get a free kill on some guy who wanted to push the corner you were hiding behind for the last 2 minutes

it's not difficult to get melee kills, you sit behind a box and wait for someone to actually try and play the game proactively instead of sitting in their spawn waiting for you to come. you get half a bar of rage and now you're semi invincible, impossible to kite and do 200 dps with melee without having to aim or do anything except w+m1

 

[AaronAaron]

rofl, this is you being serious

you really dislike him dont you?