Poison Dart Visual Effect

[Kaj]

[So, I did do a search and I didn't see anything about this, but sorry if this is in the wrong place, or someone already mentioned it.]
So I noticed in the descriptions and such of the Poison Dart for BH that it drains HP/FP, and 'distorts vision', but all I see it do is add a green visual effect to people, which is hardly a type of distortion.

So, is it just me, or does everyone think it should do a screen-warping effect like if you got pricked by the interrogation droids in Jedi Outcast?

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

Doesn't push remove player control?
Because push forces me to walk when I don't want too.
I lost control of my ability to run because of the fear of a knock down.

I didn't think of that argument because of the fear of getting lynched, but hating players loosing control of their buttons, means you have to hate push.
You can't pick a side and make exceptions, if you do that's hypocritical and a clear display of cognitive dissonance.

I fucking hate push, but I support the giant fuck you aspect the push can do, I just wanted it to not be as exploitable and easy to use. I mean the PLX is completely fucking useless if the enemy team knows their F keys. But if that missile hits, its a HUGE fuck you.

As Gumba said, it can completely fuck over your team or win the round for you.
Aspects; like weapons inverting the controls, or the screen getting distorted is a great, fuck you.

If you are dumb enough to swing your sword or shoot your gun while blinded, you deserve those team kill points and should learn to get good.
Doing nothing is easier than walking, you don't even need to press a button.

 

[Preston]

Doesn't push remove player control?
Because push forces me to walk when I don't want too.
I lost control of my ability to run because of the fear of a knock down.

I didn't think of that argument because of the fear of getting lynched, but hating players loosing control of their buttons, means you have to hate push.
You can't pick a side and make exceptions, if you do that's hypocritical and a clear display of cognitive dissonance.

here you go again.
Its not even remotely similar and you know that. Why would me and Andrew think that knockdowns from grenades were okay, but also not like losing control of the player.
Because they are completely different things.

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

That is right, except I am right this time.

I am on the ground, I have no control until the timer runs up for me to get up.
That is loss of control, that is exactly the same fucking thing.

The reason why your guys don't give a shit about grenades causing knock downs because you play classes that can instantly recover from the knock down. Hell, they can even influence the direction where you recover.
Where I am fucking dead if I move without my shoelaces being tied, and I can't move period. I recover exactly where I am standing.

If somebody pushed me on the ground and I cant physically trigger the get up, then that means another player removed my player control.
Knock downs are apart of the aspect of loosing player control, there is no way you can bullshit your way out that.

Not supporting loss of control means you hate a very core aspect of the game, and the only weapon your favorite class has.
There is no middle ground here.

Liking push means you support grenades inverting the controls, poison causing screen distorting, and grabs. Yes grabs are another form of player loosing control, if I cant physically get out of the grab animation without help of another person, I have lost control of my player.

I support this game-play aspect, that means I support your bullshit easy button, and support grabs.

 

[andrew]

i actually don't want to get into a whole thing about this because its way too difficult to explain in clear terms, and some people just wont accept it, and i also never said removing player control is a bad thing, please stop trying to argue against an idea i never put forward

regardless, the point is that sometimes gameplay can be centered around somewhat unfun mechanics in a way that doesn't impact enjoyment. in counter-strike, flashbangs are completely necessary due to the nature and flow of the game where you are pushed into chokepoints in an extremely aim focused game where entry into a bomb site could be nearly impossible without some way of evening the odds

in mb2, the jedi/sith classes are melee only and must become vulnerable to attack the enemy. because of this, their gameplay is centered nearly entirely around knockdowns for safe kills, but unlike the flashbang example where the only counteprlay is to look away, there is quite a bit of counterplay available. the entire jedi vs gunner matchup is fundamentally about avoiding knockdowns (blob, sec nades on one side and push/pull on the other) and draining/conserving FP. there are significant and real gameplay concerns behind the continued support of knockdowns

[bigboss constructed this hugely irrelevant argument based off something i never said to try and link things together that aren't similar at all.] loss of control can be frustrating, but it isn't an annoying gameplay element. messing with a players established controls is annoying and doesn't have any mechanic supporting its introduction into the game. it'd be entirely a fluff element that serves no actual purpose

if this post didn't at the very least help you to understand real gameplay justification for mechanical elements vs fluff reasoning i have no further interest in continuing to discuss it

edit: also please stop talking about "my class" or "your class", contrary to what it sounds like from my forum posts i play a lot of gunner and care about actual game balance and not just ensuring jedi are overpowered

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

bigboss constructed this hugely irrelevant argument based off something i never said to try and link things together that aren't similar at all. loss of control can be frustrating, but it isn't an annoying gameplay element. messing with a players established controls is annoying and doesn't have any mechanic supporting its introduction into the game. it'd be entirely a fluff element that serves no actual purpose

Actually I was asking Mace a question, and then proceeded to cat fight with Preston.
I was not even referring to you, I apologize for that confusion.

I like how you actually put thought into your posts instead of saying "no that will ruin the game" with no substance to back it up.
I think Mace overreacted to your post, even though he brought up good points.
Where somebody else is just a broken record and makes snide comments and laughs at people for having different opinions.

 

[Preston]

That is right, except I am right this time.

I am on the ground, I have no control until the timer runs up for me to get up.
That is loss of control, that is exactly the same fucking thing.

The reason why you guys don't give a shit about grenades causing knock downs because you play classes that can instantly recover from the knock down. Hell, they can even influence the direction where you recover.
Where I am fucking dead if I move without my shoelaces being tied, and I can't move period. I recover exactly where I am standing.

If somebody pushed me on the ground and I cant physically trigger the get up, then that means another player removed my player control.
Knock downs are apart of the aspect of loosing player control, there is no way you can bullshit your way out that.

Not supporting loss of control means you hate a very core aspect of the game, and the only weapon your favorite class has.
There is no middle ground here.

Liking push means you support grenades inverting the controls, poison causing screen distorting, and grabs. Yes grabs are another form of player loosing control, if I cant physically get out of the grab animation without help of another person, I have lost control of my player.

I support this game-play aspect, that means I support your bullshit easy button.

Actually I play all classes except deka and sbd, the only two that cant get knocked down.

My favorite class? Here you go making up random crap again for you anti jedi agenda. I've already told you privately that hero is my favorite class.

And no knocking down where you have no control, is very different than having slight control. And again the reason why i'm against this is because of the obvious tks that would happen, if you cant see that accidental tking would happen then think harder.(PS: Supa even said the accidental tking would basically be a feature that is intended, how on earth can you think that intended tking is good game design?)

Grabs are also completely different than this, don't try to compare them. They are completely different.

Also I never said I was against distortion effects? I'm actually perfectly fine with concs giving that effect, as long as it is not bugged like it was before where a player with low fps literally could not see their character on the screen.

And my bs easy button? How is it mine. I don't even use it 9 time out of 10.

Oh and again, stop raging about jedi in every thread you post in, its starting to look you are trolling and spamming. And by starting to, I mean you are. If you want to make a hate thread about jedi then post it in your own thread. Keep it out of ever thread you see.

And actually no, you are not right.

EDIT
Oh and by the way, I've probably played as many hours in every class that you have in all of your time in mb2, and a majority of those hours were not playing jedi. Since you want to play the whole "may class, you class" game.

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

Man, you really love making it personal.
I am just going to actually listen to supa now and just completely ignore you because walking away is the only positive outcome to this.

 

[Preston]

Man, you really love making it personal.
I am just going to actually listen to supa now and just completely ignore you because walking away is the only positive outcome to this.

Why because I brought valid points are called you out on your constant derailing? Sure wait for Supa to come back. The outcome will not change. Messing with a players controls is not fun. And i'm not the one who made it personal btw, stop calling me out on crap. you are the one that always calls me out on stuff that isn't true. I just answer you claims. I don't let people post random stuff about me that they have no idea about.

 

[andrew]

Actually I was asking Mace a question, and then proceeded to cat fight with Preston.
I was not even referring to you, I apologize for that confusion.

I like how you actually put thought into your posts instead of saying "no that will ruin the game" with no substance to back it up.
I think Mace overreacted to your post, even though he brought up good points.
Where somebody else is just a broken record and makes snide comments and laughs at people for having different opinions.

^____^

 

[MaceMadunusus]

i actually don't want to get into a whole thing about this because its way too difficult to explain in clear terms, and some people just wont accept it, and i also never said removing player control is a bad thing, please stop trying to argue against an idea i never put forward

I used the word "People" which does not mean "You".

Anyway, loss of control is more annoying than having manipulated control. People hate being forced into cutscenes where they have to QTE rather than playing, people hate being stunned in games like DOTA because a 1 second stun feels like a lifetime. We never implemented a cryoban grenade (Yes we made one) because of the same damn reason. Hell, the Jedi spam recently resulted in Push being more used than normal and even prompted me to look into the values for push and make a thread on how off the values are scaled, ranges, etc because using classes where I get easily knocked down mainly due to latency is beyond frustrating. FAR more frustrating than me having to adjust my aim due to an effect slightly.

So, in many games adjusting the players control (adding lag, slowing, inverting) has become a much more common practice recently because those stuns are so frustrating and annoying that they can make people quit the game.

Actually I was asking Mace a question, and then proceeded to cat fight with Preston.
I was not even referring to you, I apologize for that confusion.

I like how you actually put thought into your posts instead of saying "no that will ruin the game" with no substance to back it up.
I think Mace overreacted to your post, even though he brought up good points.
Where somebody else is just a broken record and makes snide comments and laughs at people for having different opinions.

To answer that, push does remove control, and I hate it for that reason. Internally I created a thread for a potential push nerf (with 4 or so potential paths to nerf push without squandering every single aspect of it) and have been for internal discussions concerning lessening the knockdown getup timer. I really want to get rid of as much of the knockdowns as possible and find a better mechanic for as much as possible.

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

We never implemented a cryoban grenade (Yes we made one) because of the same damn reason.

Aw...

To answer that, push does remove control, and I hate it for that reason. Internally I created a thread for a potential push nerf (with 4 or so potential paths to nerf push without squandering every single aspect of it) and have been for internal discussions concerning lessening the knockdown getup timer. I really want to get rid of as much of the knockdowns as possible and find a better mechanic for as much as possible.

Well I hope something comes out it because new players are learning the game in a backwards fashion and certain people in this community refuse to keep it civil and resort to personal attacks, quips and just will not put their thoughts into a brief paragraph that is not inflammatory.

People really like their toys to the point it's an obsession. It's very hard to remain mature when they force you to sink to their level, like im more disappointed in myself to not be one of those examples of keeping the discussion civil. I mean im 24 years old and im arguing with a 16 year old over a video game, and it's mechanics.

 

[Preston]

Aw...


Well I hope something comes out it because new players are learning the game in a backwards fashion and certain people in this community refuse to keep it civil and resort to personal attacks, quips and just will not put their thoughts into a brief paragraph that is not inflammatory.

People really like their toys to the point it's an obsession. It's very hard to remain mature when they force you to sink to their level, like im more disappointed in myself to not be one of those examples of keeping the discussion civil.

I think i just cringed from the hypocrisy

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

Eye of the Beholder. Or is it? And does it matter?

One man's unfun is another's fun. Or one man's cup of tea is another's vinegar?
Regardless, so what?

It's not supposed to be fun. You got hit by a weapon/ability/effect.

Is getting shot fun? No.
Is getting knocked down fun? No.
Is getting griped fun? No.
Is getting rocketed fun? No.
Is getting set on fire fun? Yes. But that's my personal preference.

Unless you're a masochist being the victim is not fun. Being on the receiving end is not fun.
Why this nonsensical argument? Enemies of change, feed your desperation!

What is fun? Doing all that ^.........To someone else. Being the giver, not the taker.

Just as much as I'll curse having my controls inverted or whatever, I'll laugh when I do it to someone else.


---------------------------

So really, what is the point of all your posts about unfun?
Clearly it's limited to your ___________

I'm with Mace. Knockdowns are too pervasive in this game and we need to rethink not only how they're implemented but add different dimensions to abilities that function close, if not the same, as a knockdown regarding status effects.
And its something that people have long complained about, before some of you, *cough* both of you, even started playing Hey, if you can bring out that card, why can't I?

Though................................Can't help but notice, once again, same people as before, desperately don't want knockdowns changed.
Was it really all just about that? Whether by push or by nade, don't you dare touch my precious knockdown

It's easy to see the correlation. Oh no he didn't.
Yes I did.

 

[andrew]

unfun elements are justified through gameplay, this is an extremely basic concept chaos..

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

Perhaps you need to read it more slowly

 

[MaceMadunusus]

unfun elements are justified through gameplay, this is an extremely basic concept chaos..

Not really, your goal as a game designer is to make it fun for both sides. You can have something used against you, or a mechanic that results in cool kills and even though it is used against you people will say "that was sick" especially if they see the kill cam. If you have unfun elements in the game, you need to work on finding a way to fix that.

 

[andrew]

Not really, your goal as a game designer is to make it fun for both sides. You can have something used against you, or a mechanic that results in cool kills and even though it is used against you people will say "that was sick" especially if they see the kill cam. If you have unfun elements in the game, you need to work on finding a way to fix that.

unfun elements are unavoidable, can you replace the utility of flashbangs in csgo in any possible way?

 

[MaceMadunusus]

unfun elements are unavoidable, can you replace the utility of flashbangs in csgo in any possible way?

Unfun elements are not unavoidable. And absolutely you can, there are other ways, there's even actual concussion grenades that they can use or they can go out of "realism" and make something unique.

 

[Megatron (The Shredder)]

If we're talking about Buffs for Poison Darts then make headshots with poison darts blind the player.

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

If we're talking about Buffs for Poison Darts then make headshots with poison darts blind the player.

DOOOD
THAT WOULD BE HYPE AS FUCK