Poison Dart Visual Effect

[Kaj]

[So, I did do a search and I didn't see anything about this, but sorry if this is in the wrong place, or someone already mentioned it.]
So I noticed in the descriptions and such of the Poison Dart for BH that it drains HP/FP, and 'distorts vision', but all I see it do is add a green visual effect to people, which is hardly a type of distortion.

So, is it just me, or does everyone think it should do a screen-warping effect like if you got pricked by the interrogation droids in Jedi Outcast?

 

[andrew]

Is getting knocked down instead more fun?

adding awful gameplay isn't a solution, are we going to change sec nades and remove blobs as well because knockdowns are annoying?

its not a matter of how fun it is or not, scrambling controls and messing with players visuals are some of the most obnoxious and completely unnecessary elements games have

sometimes its worth it, like in the case of flashbangs for counter strike. they serve a very clear and defined purpose and are well balanced to compensate for how annoying it is

some soldier walking around with 6 grenades of "here, guess how to move forward isn't this fun?" would just be stupid

 

[Preston]

Yeah fuck new players, we shouldn't casualize the game to accommodate them.
They can eat shit like I did while learning the game, infact its easier for them to learn now seeing as I is one of the few dedicated people to tutoring them.
And then you got Agent doing saber training for the most complicated classes.

I agree we shouldn't casualize the game. But it would cause way too much frustration for both new and old players.
Over complicating things isnt the best design choice either.

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

some soldier walking around with 6 grenades of "here, guess how to move forward isn't this fun?" would just be stupid

Hold on, inverting the controls is not randomizing them.
That is some mario party tier shit, and is always fun inside of mario party.

If going forward was inverted then you press D instead of W.
It's not guessing, unless you never heard of the word invert.

 

[Supa]

Alright, to be fair that is part of the reason it was considered for all of 5 minutes or so, before we completely disregarded it as a viable possibility. I mean, it's a cool idea, and it's annoying, but it gives concussion grenades some real life referencing in a way. Slowing down controls and greying the screen a little bit while under the effects is a perfectly acceptable alternative to that.

 

[andrew]

Hold on, inverting the controls is not randomizing them.
If going forward was inverted then you press D instead of W.

either way its stupid

how could that possibly be considered solid gameplay?

 

[Preston]

Alright, to be fair that is part of the reason it was considered for all of 5 minutes or so, before we completely disregarded it as a viable possibility. I mean, it's a cool idea, and it's annoying, but it gives concussion grenades some real life referencing in a way. Slowing down controls and greying the screen a little bit while under the effects is a perfectly acceptable alternative to that.

What do you mean by slowing down controls?

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

either way its stupid

how could that possibly be considered solid gameplay?

Its goofy gameplay, I never said it was solid. Its a giant fuck you weapon and I think we need more of those.
Like how the PLX is, if nobody pushes the rocket its basically a giant fuck you.

Including screen altering poison, and red screen effects while under wookie rage.
Shit, where is the predator vision for advanced logic skills?

 

[Supa]

What do you mean by slowing down controls?

In this case it would be lowering the maximum mouse sensitivity while under the effects of whatever.

 

[andrew]

Its goofy gameplay, I never said it was solid. Its a giant fuck you weapon and I think we need more of those.

please stay away from suggestions

you can create goofy gameplay that doesn't simply annoy the shit out of people playing, thats the type of stuff that makes people stop playing because its frustrating

its okay for players to get frustrated, but it should come from them feeling they are getting outplayed, not because stupid stuff is happening

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

please stay away from suggestions

you can create goofy gameplay that doesn't simply annoy the shit out of people playing, thats the type of stuff that makes people stop playing because its frustrating

The whole point of people throwing bad suggestions is to give life to good suggestions.
My suggestions have thought put into them, and I don't think thier bad. But if the consensus thinks they are bad then that is enough to sprout good ideas.

I follow the yin and yang principle, there is always good to a bad.
If im bad, that means Supa is good.

 

[Supa]

I don't need people to come up with bad ideas to come up with my own bad ideas. :^)

But yeah, remember that discussion we had about opinions, and how people have them? Yeah, they're gonna have them, so don't tell them they can't, because they will anyways.

 

[andrew]

The whole point of people throwing bad suggestions is to give life to good suggestions.

sounds nice, but doesn't mean anything

theres a difference between a non-viable suggestion and a bad suggestion

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

sounds nice, but doesn't mean anything

theres a difference between a non-viable suggestion and a bad suggestion

I think my suggestions are good, and supa likes some aspects of my suggestions but makes adjustments to them so the game wont break.
I have been secretly balancing the game for you guys all this time.
(joke)

 

[andrew]

conc nades should close your game if you get hit by it

"thats dumb"

im just spitballing ideas!

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

conc nades should close your game if you get hit by it

"thats dumb"

im just spitballing ideas!

Nah, you should get disconnected instead.
Crashing the game is too mind fuckery.

It scares the shit out of me when games do that.

 

[Preston]

The thing about gameplay is, imo features should very rarely if ever make the player lose control of themselves. An obvious exception is knock downs.

This is why im still upset about reload not turning off your saber mid swing

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

Why should the obvious exception be knockdowns? Why does it always *have* to be knockdowns.
Why not something *instead* of knockdowns that removes some control?

I'd rather have something like the effects of being dazed.
You could still aim and shoot, walk, but you'd lose temporarily control over your movement. You'd go briefly in a random direction.
Still can aim and shoot, mitigate by walking or maybe soft counter by holding down crouch(until the effect wears off) and that's it.

Movement
Paralysis
Visual
Damage
Etc.

Variety, it be the spice of life. Gun stagger!

 

[MaceMadunusus]

adding awful gameplay isn't a solution

Awful gameplay yet several games use that same effect and I've never seen anyone complain about it except when those effects stack? Come on and actually think through this. Half the games with those grenade mechanics are far less forgiving than MB2 is towards tking or anything else. There are actual physical analytics from this EXACT mechanic in other games and it actually works.

With the poison visual effect manipulating things you had to adjust your aim to compensate for the change. The same is here as well, and it actually isn't hard to adjust to at all for anyone with decent hand-eye coordination.

Saying it is awful gameplay, a bad or non-viable suggestion is not only idiotic and narrow-minded, but is also an opinion not based on any sort of fact or information. You reference CS:GO flash bangs, yet you have less control over where you are going while under those effects because you cannot see and you have no audio cues to help you navigate or know what is going on. Where as inverting controls, slowing controls, whatever still gives you most of that information and gives you a way to combat what is around you instead of blind firing or hiding in a corner. Which does supply a unique disorienting role that nothing else has without going to yet another stupid as hell knockdown or completely removing player control.

 

[andrew]

i'll never give messing with player controls consideration in any game, at any point

its bad gameplay to the core

edit: the reference to csgo flashbangs talked about how its forgivable due to the necessity of them as part of the games mechanics, not because of the mechanic itself btw

 

[MaceMadunusus]

i'll never give messing with player controls consideration in any game, at any point

But people give complete removal of control (Stuns, Staggers, Flinches, Sleeps, Mutes, Blinds, etc) consideration? Logic == None.

It is far from bad gameplay to the core and you have zero proof of that. There are plenty of cases where manipulating player control is needed (and many games do it without you noticing). There are cases where bad implementation is bad, but that isn't the core of the issue.