MapReview Blacony Dotf xD

Spaghetti

cable monster
R2D2
Movie Battles II Team Retired
Posts
936
Reaction score
901
Let's just forget about the criticism of the map I gave the map before on previous threads and other messaging boards. Fuck off.
If you think that (criticism of the map) has had anything to do with the demotivation issue, you're not paying attention (and worse, ignoring what you're actually being explicitly told at this point).
 
Posts
38
Reaction score
37
If you think that (criticism of the map) has had anything to do with the demotivation issue, you're not paying attention (and worse, ignoring what you're actually being explicitly told at this point).
I don't think that constructive criticism has anything to do with the demotivation issue.

Yes, the personal attacks I deleted earlier were totally sound criticism of the map. Those are definitely not the demotivating things that were being talked about before. :rolleyes:
I was letting you know that I have given sound criticism of the map, and cherry picking one time I called Mace a shithead doesn't make you Sherlock buddy.
 

Spaghetti

cable monster
R2D2
Movie Battles II Team Retired
Posts
936
Reaction score
901
I don't think that constructive criticism has anything to do with the demotivation issue.

I was letting you know that I have given sound criticism of the map, and cherry picking one time I called Mace a shithead doesn't make you Sherlock buddy.
So let me get this straight. You have given constructive criticism previously. And then later you attacked him for not following your criticism to the letter or on your preferred timetable.

If you're trying to demonstrate that you aren't part of the group of people contributing to demotivation here, you're doing a terrible job of it.
 
Posts
120
Reaction score
85
I have already answered that question a billion times now. What does Valve do when they update the dota map, or csgo maps? Do they provide classic versions? Nope. Does Blizzard provide classic versions of overwatch maps when they update them? No. When we updated previous versions of mb2 maps, including very popular ones, did we provide a classic version initially? No. When cloud city was removed, which was more popular than DOTF at the time, was there even a new version standing by? No. This is standard game development practice and procedure. It is intended to get enough data on a new version of a map before making further changes and refinements instead of people instantly reverting back to playing the old one.

Now, you can argue that I didn't meet my window for the refinement period, but I managed to update 4 different times (one for christmas event version), 3 of which were in a 2 month time span, and the last of which within the first 5 months while also revamping lunarbase (which no classic version exists of either) and doing other things. This gives a good idea of how fast I work, and how much I can churn out while motivated, because I didn't just do those things, but also helped setup the releases themselves, and fixed a bunch of things map wise as well, and helped run promotional material around the release of EP7. I hate tooting my own horn like this, but I am one of the few in the history of the team capable of doing all of that at once. Now that I have given you some evidence of what happens when I am motivated, have you noticed what has happened while I am not motivated? Oh, DOTF hasn't recieved an update in over a year? Well, gee, I wonder what that could be from. It isn't because of criticism, because that is why DOTF got that many updates in a short period of time, and has more scheduled. It is because I no longer have motivation, because of attacks on my person. DOTF classic most likely would have been out by now, if half the members in this community had even a minute amount of social intelligence. And you're currently feeding into that. Why would I work and do things for people, who call me names within the first 24 hours of release and consistently do it for the first 6 or so months for me to lose all motivation to work on the project? Put yourself in my shoes. I didn't want this process to take so long. I wanted to have a version of DOTF people enjoyed out already, or the classic version re-released a long time ago. It is time for the community to take responsibility for their part in this whole process. Realize that people will distance themselves from something, if they are being directly attacked rather than just criticized, realize that honey works better than salt.

If you honestly believe through all this, that it is out of spite then there is probably no way I can convince you. If you honestly do not like me for being consistent with how we have released map updates, and how other game developers release map updates, then that is your prerogative. It especially does not make sense given the rest of my contributions.. I have consistently stated that if the last revision of DOTF is not up to expectations, balcony DOTF will make its return. I still stand by that statement. You can make the choice that makes that process go faster, or you can make the choice to be a part of the community that makes me want to either take my skills and my time elsewhere or continue working on what I want to work on instead of what the community wants. You can use this as a learning opportunity for how to speak to people. There is a reason it was removed on release, and followed the standard procedure everyone does. There is also a reason it was not added back in a timely manner. That reason, is simply because I just don't want to open the map file. Not because I am being intentionally spiteful "fuck the community" but simply because I would rather work on something that brings me more joy or moves MB2 as a project forward more. The responses in this thread show me that I will be continuing to work on things that I actually feel like working on, and that cause me less stress, rather than forcing myself to do something that I no longer find fun to work on when this is my hobby that I am not paid to do. Start treating me like a person, rather than a name on a screen for you to vent every ounce of frustration towards.

For those who need a serious response and still don't get my previous larger post: Do you seriously think I would prioritize anything in this mod over any kind of surgery? The correct answer is: no.
tldr but there was legit no plausible reason to remove the map cmon bro
besides once it was gone people did voice that they wanted it back
what does blizzard ubisoft valve etc. do when players ask for something they give it to them
also I should not have to learn how to communicate with people just to play a map
i dont harbor any ill will towards u and the majority of the community dont, its just ur retarded decisions that make zero sense that have pissed people off my guy
if u want to take ur time somewhere else go ahead cos this mod is essentially dead to me anyway the moment sabering got fucked was the moment it died for me so its really down to what u want to do
i think you and most of the other devs could do with some time off so just slide us the classic dotf and a nice saber patch and u guys can retire ty
 
Posts
120
Reaction score
85
Because of people like you, I have literally opened the map file dozens of times, and literally stared at it wanting to finish it. But for some reason, my brain and soul just die, and I end up playing a video game instead... constantly re-opening the map during breaks in that game, trying to find the motivation to work on it. And I just can't. The same is applying right now. I'm trying to get work done, but you fucks are making me want to stop working on mb2 period because youre entitled. I'm sitting here supposed to be updating minimaps for the new UI release... but I just keep staring at the damn screen losing hope instead of being productive.
the only person who sounds entitled here is you
ppl asked for old map
refused to give old map
records himself deleting map for meme
calls community entitled
*omegalul*
 
Posts
38
Reaction score
37
So let me get this straight. You have given constructive criticism previously. And then later you attacked him for not following your criticism to the letter or on your preferred timetable.
Basically yes, lol. I don't like the fact that he removed my favorite map from the game, and a ton of other players feel the same. The fact that it has already been two years since the removal also pisses me off enough to "attack" him.

If you're trying to say that you haven't helped contribute to demotivation here, you're doing a terrible job of it.
Of course I don't think that. Me and more than a handful of people have "demotivated" him.
 

Spaghetti

cable monster
R2D2
Movie Battles II Team Retired
Posts
936
Reaction score
901
tldr but there was legit no plausible reason to remove the map cmon bro
besides once it was gone people did voice that they wanted it back
what does blizzard ubisoft valve etc. do when players ask for something they give it to them
That was kinda covered earlier by the fact that revamped versions of maps typically replace the old versions entirely? Which game studios actually distribute classic versions after remaking something? That's the exception and makes news like WoW Classic, it's not the norm.

Basically yes, lol. I don't like the fact that he removed my favorite map from the game, and a ton of other players feel the same. The fact that it has already been two years since the removal also pisses me off enough to "attack" him.

Of course I don't think that. Me and more than a handful of people have "demotivated" him.
So you're knowingly helping demotivate people from doing the thing you want them to do. 🤔
 
Posts
120
Reaction score
85
That was kinda covered earlier by the fact that revamped versions of maps typically replace the old versions entirely? Which game studios actually distribute classic versions after remaking a map? That's the exception, not the rule.


So you're knowingly helping demotivate people from doing the thing you want them to do. 🤔
boss. bose.
listen b0se
this is not a big big game studio this is an old ass mod with a very passionate community, albeit hella toxic
if i bring out a new map for rainbow six siege and the map is fucking shit, what do i do, keep the map for 2 years no
especially if the community is going haywire and actively harassing me
why am i going to make it worse for myself and fan the flame?
i am glad we are gonna get it back but this whole fuckery will be remembered for a long while i think this community is permanently retarded now
 

MaceMadunusus

Level Designer
Movie Battles II Team
Posts
1,412
Reaction score
1,830
Thank you Spaghetti.

See Karus, You're saying that I made a retarded decision that makes no sense.... but how can it make no sense, if its industry standard practice, and MB2 is actually an exception to the rule that we even offer classics in the first place? Like, The answer to it making sense is right there in front of you. But instead of actually acknowledging that it is does make sense, you resort to an attack instead because it doesn't give you the outcome you personally want. The world does not revolve around you, which is how you are currently acting. Hence, entitled.
 
Posts
38
Reaction score
37
So you're knowingly helping demotivate people from doing the thing you want them to do. 🤔
Yeah cause obviously reason isn't working, a lot of those nerds made those threads TWO YEARS ago with constructive criticism.

but guess what, mace is still demotivated! no release guys!

Plus it's not my fault that he can't take an angry guy's insults online on a star wars mod's forums.
 

Spaghetti

cable monster
R2D2
Movie Battles II Team Retired
Posts
936
Reaction score
901
Yeah cause obviously reason isn't working, a lot of those nerds made those threads TWO YEARS ago with constructive criticism.

Plus it's not my fault that he can't take an angry guy's insults online on a star wars mod's forums.
The personal attacks came pretty much within a day of v2 being released, so... ultimately the problem you have isn't with Mace, but with those people, since the current situation is their legacy. But sure, go for the easier target for your frustrations. I'm sure it will get you the desired result.

I think I've made my point.
 
Posts
120
Reaction score
85
Thank you Spaghetti.

See Karus, You're saying that I made a retarded decision that makes no sense.... but how can it make no sense, if its industry standard practice, and MB2 is actually an exception to the rule that we even offer classics in the first place? Like, The answer to it making sense is right there in front of you. But instead of actually acknowledging that it is does make sense, you resort to an attack instead because it doesn't give you the outcome you personally want. The world does not revolve around you, which is how you are currently acting. Hence, entitled.
Boss I have never personally attacked you and I wouldn't, this is a game, I rarely play it these days anyway but I am waiting for saber patch so keeping active on forums
To say im entitled because u refused to put a map back into the game for 2 years is beyond me but ok
Im not one of the hardcore fuck the dev squad, i actually backed u guys alot when it came to discussions about the future of the mod and whats taking so long for updates etc
but then i see this and it makes my brain shrivel up and contract a little bit
Industry standard etc this is a non profit modification am i right, so what the fuck has industry standards got to do with it
I mean, aim high but its the players that count right?
I think u should legit take a break because ur contempt for the community as a whole really shines in this thread and personally id be quite embarassed
Also i can say the exact same thing about attacking ppl because u didnt get what u want
But i wont speak on that shit because i rly dont care and i just want this mod alive again
 
Posts
38
Reaction score
37
The personal attacks came pretty much within a day of v2 being released, so... ultimately the problem you have isn't with Mace, but with those people, since the current situation is their legacy. But sure, go for the easy target, and if you keep repeating the same attacks I'm sure it will get you the desired result. I've made my point.
No, I'm simply just mad at Mace because he can't take criticism and insults just like every other big name developer can, and still release projects.

You are right in that it is stupid to continue insulting him if he can't take it, so I'll stop insulting the poor dude if that'll make him release the map.
 
Posts
120
Reaction score
85
The personal attacks came pretty much within a day of v2 being released, so... ultimately the problem you have isn't with Mace, but with those people, since the current situation is their legacy. But sure, go for the easier target for your frustrations. I'm sure it will get you the desired result.

I think I've made my point.
I dont know shit about this situation but I will say it takes two to tango my friend
 

Spaghetti

cable monster
R2D2
Movie Battles II Team Retired
Posts
936
Reaction score
901
I dont know shit about this situation but I will say it takes two to tango my friend
Huh? That statement only makes sense if you're saying that releasing a remake of the map was the same as starting a personal attack on the community.

No, I'm simply just mad at Mace because he can't take criticism and insults just like every other big name developer can, and still release projects.

You are right in that it is stupid to continue insulting him if he can't take it, so I'll stop insulting the poor dude if that'll make him release the map.
Criticism is fine, but you're advocating for insults to be a standard expectation of discourse? That is utterly absurd, and I think reflects poorly on your attitude. I sincerely encourage you to reflect on that position from more than your own narrow point of view.

Anyone who's been a dev for as long as Mace has a skin that's plenty thick at this point. But even the thickest skin will get worn down to the bone when you apply an industrial grinder to it.
 

MaceMadunusus

Level Designer
Movie Battles II Team
Posts
1,412
Reaction score
1,830
Boss I have never personally attacked you and I wouldn't, this is a game, I rarely play it these days anyway but I am waiting for saber patch so keeping active on forums
You just attacked by saying my logic and reasoning is retarded and makes no sense. That is an attack and you're trying to discredit me. And a completely incorrect one at that, because you're the one that wants this map and mod to be treated more special than any other map and game.

What does industry standard got to do with it? You realize several of us keep a standard practice across multiple game projects right? We don't just work on this. All of these developers came up with these processes for a reason. Based on studies, logic, discussions, meetings, etc. You're the one trying to circumvent all of that while calling it retarded and making no sense. There are reasons you develop games a certain way.
 
Posts
121
Reaction score
121
Lindsey said he is willing to do the work required to add it back in. Is your lack of motivation still a valid reason to withhold the map if someone else is willing to do the work?
 

Spaghetti

cable monster
R2D2
Movie Battles II Team Retired
Posts
936
Reaction score
901
It can be readded for all I care. I was just going to stay consistent with my initial statements on the topic and readd it if the last update isn't good enough. Hell, the new version can be deleted for all I care at this point, because I am just fucking tired of being treated like this.
Lindsey said he is willing to do the work required to add it back in. Is your lack of motivation still a valid reason to withhold the map if someone else is willing to do the work?
Not sure if serious. Did you miss that or are you just being disingenuous?
 

MaceMadunusus

Level Designer
Movie Battles II Team
Posts
1,412
Reaction score
1,830
Lindsey said he is willing to do the work required to add it back in. Is your lack of motivation still a valid reason to withhold the map if someone else is willing to do the work?
If he wants to, sure. He needs to actually finish the project though, and he needs to do it up to standard, which will include creating a new minimap and objective image to go with the new UIs modifications now that that is going in the next release.
 
Top