MapReview Blacony Dotf xD

[foggy]

Let's play a game! spot a missing texture or a shader!

 

[Townsend]

If he wants to, sure. He needs to actually finish the project though, and he needs to do it up to standard, which will include creating a new minimap and objective image to go with the new UIs modifications now that that is going in the next release.

hopefully he will be motivated as a perfectionist it MUST be up to standard

 

[jacedagoat]

Criticism is fine, but you're advocating for insults to be a standard expectation of discourse? That is utterly absurd, and I think reflects poorly on your attitude. I sincerely encourage you to reflect on that position from more than your own narrow point of view.

Anyone who's been a dev for as long as Mace has a skin that's plenty thick at this point. But even the thickest skin will get worn down to the bone when you apply an industrial grinder to it.

Now you are just putting words in my mouth, I'm not advocating that people should insult him. I'm only saying that if he can't take insults from others he has no place on the developer team. Especially because he lacks the motivation to do anything because of said insults. In my eyes not releasing the map because of a lack of motivation stemming from insults from people online is just stupid. There are many developers that take that kind of hate every day and they can ignore it, why can't Mace?

 

[Karus]

You just attacked by saying my logic and reasoning is retarded and makes no sense. That is an attack and you're trying to discredit me. And a completely incorrect one at that, because you're the one that wants this map and mod to be treated more special than any other map and game.

What does industry standard got to do with it? You realize several of us keep a standard practice across multiple game projects right? We don't just work on this. All of these developers came up with these processes for a reason. Based on studies, logic, discussions, meetings, etc. You're the one trying to circumvent all of that while calling it retarded and making no sense. There are reasons you develop games a certain way.

Disagreeing with someone by saying their reasoning doesn't make sense to them is not an attack.
It's called a disagreement.
This is exactly why I clarified earlier that I have no ill will towards you or any of the devs, because I wanted to make it clear that if I disagree with you on something, it's not just because I'm a faggy Open player who doesn't own any other games and can't get what he/she wants, and I'm not going to sit here and insult you by saying things like "You're incompetent" or "You're just lazy" because you're not and we all appreciate the work you've done thus far.
What I WILL call you though is retarded, but if that does offend you to the point that you feel personally attacked I will be happy to withdraw that statement.
Anyway, the reason I have this disagreement with you is because of the way you've approached/handled the situation and the response that has incurred due to that.
I'm not saying I'm perfect because I definitely am not. But I can offer advice. I just don't think you wish to take it because your paranoia towards the communities favor has blinded you to the point where you cannot tell the difference between an attack and feedback.

 

[Spaghetti]

Now you are just putting words in my mouth, I'm not advocating that people should insult him. I'm only saying that if he can't take insults from others he has no place on the developer team. Especially because he lacks the motivation to do anything because of said insults. In my eyes not releasing the map because of a lack of motivation stemming from insults from people online is just stupid. There are many developers that take that kind of hate every day and they can ignore it, why can't Mace?

You're leaving out one key distinction. Professional developers are paid. As in, it's their fucking job to make the game. Any studio beyond a tiny indie tends to have at least a few dedicated community relations folks to take the edge off of dealing directly with the community too. At the end of the day though they still get paid if they can produce a successful enough product, regardless of shitheads attacking them.

Anyone who's contributed to this mod hasn't been paid a cent for it. We're all volunteers, and our only motivation to do anything at all is because we want to. All of us have some degree of personal motivation to do stuff, and that can be enhanced by community hype (it's satisfying at a basic human level to make something and see other people enjoy it). Conversely, if the community constantly attacks you personally, your motivation to work on the project will diminish. This isn't complicated.

If people weren't allowed on the dev team unless they pledged to put in X hours regardless of circumstances, there wouldn't be a team or a mod.

 

[MaceMadunusus]

Disagreeing with someone by saying their reasoning doesn't make sense to them is not an attack.
It's called a disagreement.

You would be correct, if my reasoning didn't make sense in some way, or was not industry standard practice, or a practice we in the team did for years with zero contest. Instead, in this case you used it as an attempt to discredit me and make a bad argument because those things I listed are true, and are actual reasons that make logical sense. Which turns it into an attack. Calling me retarded off of the back of that, like you just did, is based on emotion rather than logic. Which you continue to not follow while simultaneously tell me that how I am handling this is wrong despite being consistent with not only myself but other developers for the last 16+ years. Sorry mate, that's you.

You haven't been capable, thus far, of saying why I am retarded, or why my logic didn't make sense, or combat the things I have said, other than to just say things like "this is a mod not a game" which is not even an argument you can make at this point, especially with how much we have deviated from basejka and it minimizes all we have done to make a point. And plus anyway, mods should be treated just like games are. You just keep saying that I am those things, without an argument to back that up.

 

[jacedagoat]

You're leaving out one key distinction. Professional developers are paid. As in, it's their fucking job to make the game. Any studio beyond a tiny indie tends to have at least a few dedicated community relations folks to take the edge off of dealing directly with the community too. At the end of the day though they still get paid if they can produce a successful enough product, regardless of shitheads attacking them.

Anyone who's contributed to this mod hasn't been paid a cent for it. We're all volunteers, and our only motivation to do anything at all is because we want to. All of us have some degree of personal motivation to do stuff, and that can be enhanced by community hype (it's satisfying at a basic human level to make something and see other people enjoy it). Conversely, if the community constantly attacks you personally, your motivation to work on the project will diminish. This isn't complicated.

You act like I don't already understand all that. But what am I to do to stop everyone from insulting him so I can get my favorite fucking map back?

I'll say it one more time, all I want is Mace to have thicker skin, ignore the insults, and drop his stupid reasoning to not release the map.

 

[Spaghetti]

You act like I don't already understand all that. But what am I to do to stop everyone from insulting him so I can get my favorite fucking map back?

I'll say it one more time, all I want is Mace to have thicker skin and ignore the insults and drop his stupid reasoning to not release the map.

Then you also need to understand that sometimes in real life, you don't have control and there might be nothing you can practically do to make the situation better. Instead though you chose to exacerbate the problem, and continue to rationalize that questionable decision by shifting the blame to Mace for his terrible failing of being human and getting demotivated to some degree by personal attacks.

I get it. You want the shiny thing. You're upset the shiny thing is gone. You lashed out to get it back.

Now learn some empathy and grow up.

 

[MaceMadunusus]

I'll say it one more time, all I want is Mace to have thicker skin, ignore the insults, and drop his stupid reasoning to not release the map.

You try dealing with what I deal with all the fucking time and see how thick your skin is after working on this stupid mod for 12 years. I doubt your skin will be 1/10th as thick as mine is after the same period. Most developers have quit with half the time working on this mod because of idiots within the community. The only person who has lasted as a team member longer than me, is I believe Mcbober, who generally doesn't do anything that could be considered controversial in any way.

I dare you to stay dedicated to something that long while people attack you. Dare you.

 

[jacedagoat]

Then you also need to understand that sometimes in real life, you don't have control and there might be nothing you can practically do to make the situation better. Instead though you chose to exacerbate the problem, and continue to rationalize that questionable decision by shifting the blame to Mace for his terrible failing of being human and getting demotivated to some degree by personal attacks.

Yes you're right that I chose to exacerbate the problem ONCE because I was frustrated.

I just want Mace to release the map, but he's been stuck being demotivated for two whole years.

Also, of course, I'm going to shift the blame to Mace and the dev team. They are literally the people who aren't releasing the map. Lmao wut! What am I gonna do, ask the people who are insulting Mace politely to stop? Give me a break.

You're right, I don't have any control over Mace so obviously I can't make him drop his childish and asinine reason for not releasing the map, so I guess the map will never come out.

 

[jacedagoat]

You try dealing with what I deal with all the fucking time and see how thick your skin is after working on this stupid mod for 12 years. I doubt your skin will be 1/10th as thick as mine is after the same period. Most developers have quit with half the time working on this mod because of idiots within the community. The only person who has lasted as a team member longer than me, is I believe Mcbober, who generally doesn't do anything that could be considered controversial in any way.

I dare you to stay dedicated to something that long while people attack you. Dare you.

Alright whatever, yeah maybe I'd quit maybe I wouldn't. Blah blah who cares.

The thing is, you are only letting the problem linger, simply because of the fact that you don't want to release the map anymore.

 

[Spaghetti]

Also, of course, I'm going to shift the blame to Mace and the dev team. They are literally the people who aren't releasing the map. Lmao wut! What am I gonna do, ask the people who are insulting Mace politely to stop? Give me a break.

It's almost as if there are external factors influencing the people within the dev team who would be doing such work.

 

[MaceMadunusus]

Yes you're right that I chose to exacerbate the problem ONCE because I was frustrated.

I just want Mace to release the map, but he's been stuck being demotivated for two whole years.

Also, of course, I'm going to shift the blame to Mace and the dev team. They are literally the people who aren't releasing the map. Lmao wut! What am I gonna do, ask the people who are insulting Mace politely to stop? Give me a break.

You're right, I don't have any control over Mace so obviously I can't make him drop his childish and asinine reason for not releasing the map, so I guess the map will never come out.

You aren't hosting servers and playing on it like the old CC was all the time. You clearly have shown to me and the team that you do not want classic DOTF enough. But oh wait, you're still calling my reasons childish and asinine, while I literally said above that Lindsey can do the things needed to the map so we can release it if he wants to. All while its industry and mb2 team standard practice. So guess who is in the wrong here? But oh wait, were going to continue calling me names. I literally said multiple times that the map can be released, just that I don't have motivation to do the things it needs, and literally gave permission for someone else in the team to do it above. You are not debating in good faith. Please leave this community, because you are toxic.

 

[jacedagoat]

It's almost as if there are external factors influencing the people within the dev team who would be doing such work.

And like I said, I have no control over how Mace feels about the situation and I can't stop others from insulting him.

But why I can do, is tell Mace (one of the devs that is working on the map btw and also the one who doesn't want to release it because hes getting insulted btw) to stop letting insults get to him so he can release the map.

 

[Spaghetti]

And like I said, I have no control over how Mace feels about the situation and I can't stop others from insulting him.

But why I can do, is tell Mace (one of the devs that is working on the map btw and also the one who doesn't want to release it because hes getting insulted btw) to stop letting insults get to him so he can release the map.

This entire stupid trainwreck of a spat started because you chose to completely ignore the distinction between passive inaction and active resistance to something. When the person who you're saying is resisting release gives explicit permission for another dev to do so. It just makes you look delusional.

 

[kvinto]

Interesting if I may say so myself

 

[jacedagoat]

You aren't hosting servers and playing on it like the old CC was all the time. You clearly have shown to me and the team that you do not want classic DOTF enough.

Funny because I have hosted a server, got people on it and more. I just couldn't help but notice that many people were confused on how to download it, even when I added a bit.ly link onto it with explicit directions on how to download it. SMH, I just wanted it back then so that it was easier for people to get on.

But oh wait, you're still calling my reasons childish and asinine, while I literally said above that Lindsey can do the things needed to the map so we can release it if he wants to.

I literally said multiple times that the map can be released, just that I don't have motivation to do the things it needs, and literally gave permission for someone else in the team to do it above.

Congrats, it only took you two years of "demotivation" and delaying of the map to give permission to another developer to add it back into the game. Serves me right dude!!!

All while its industry and mb2 team standard practice. So guess who is in the wrong here? But oh wait, were going to continue calling me names.

Continue calling you names? I insulted you once, are you schizophrenic or something?

This entire stupid trainwreck of a spat started because you chose to completely ignore the distinction between passive inaction and active resistance to something. When the person who you're saying is resisting release gives explicit permission for another dev to do so. It just makes you look delusional.

No, I chose to acknowledge the fact that your supposed distinction was bullshit. Inaction is just the same as resistance in this case, you can only do one of two things release the map or not release the map. Back when Mace decided he didn't want to release the map until now was in that sense it was both inaction and resistance. He can't be in the middle ground, because you either release it or you don't... Lmao...

Yeah and he only just made up his mind to allow Lindsey to do that during my arguments after two years of inaction and resistance.

Anyways all is solved, Lindsey will release the map soon. We finally got what we wanted.

 

[Spaghetti]

No, I chose to acknowledge the fact that your supposed distinction was bullshit. Inaction is just the same as resistance in this case, you can only do one of two things release the map or not release the map. Back when Mace decided he didn't want to release the map until now was in that sense it was both inaction and resistance. He can't be in the middle ground, because you either release it or you don't... Lmao...

Yeah and he only just made up his mind to allow Lindsey to do that during my arguments after two years of inaction and resistance.

Anyways all is solved, Lindsey will release the map soon. We finally got what we wanted.

And now you're just pulling stuff out of your ass.

You can choose to run a steamroller over language and throw logic out the window to get your desired result, but there's little point in engaging with someone who does so as it's ultimately pointless. Since we're clearly at that point now after painstakingly laying out the problems with your line of reasoning, there's nothing really left to say. Just going in circles now.

 

[MaceMadunusus]

Yeah and he only just made up his mind to allow Lindsey to do that during my arguments after two years of inaction and resistance.

Making assumptions is bad.

August 5, 2019
[5:58 PM]Spaghetti:
thinking of doing the 1.3 dotf conversion next week
[5:58 PM]Spaghetti:
at the very least will shut people up
[5:58 PM]MaceMadunusus:
okay

Which the conversation continued a bit, where I just said that I wanted to follow my initial statement for consistency, but wasn't going to stop spaghetti if he wanted to do it. Which he then also talked about finishing mos eisley, and I said he should also finish geonosis duel if he was going to work on things.

 

[jacedagoat]

Making assumptions is bad.



Which the conversation continued a bit, where I just said that I wanted to follow my initial statement for consistency, but wasn't going to stop spaghetti if he wanted to do it. Which he then also talked about finishing mos eisley, and I said he should also finish geonosis duel if he was going to work on things.

The other part of my sentence still stands, it only took you two years to finally allow the addition of the map again.

 

[MaceMadunusus]

What I said still stands, it only took you two years to finally allow the addition of the map again.

Dude, get over yourself. It hasn't even been 2 years yet.