It Seems the mod is somewhat Dead after v1.4.5

[KimmyMarin]

I've gotten some interesting ideas out of suggestions that in themselves weren't fit for implementing so there's no harm in making suggestions.

This is more or less what I've been doing. Making things more understandable is always a challenge but it's something I have talked with others about.

i hope you mean not only the already op duelers that we have in the community and also ppl that are not skilled wise in this area, you need to think about the players that want a user friendly system as well, while its hard to understand both sides you gotta keep them in mind as well.

 

[jewbacca]

i hope you mean not only the already op duelers that we have in the community and also ppl that are not skilled wise in this area, you need to think about the players that want a user friendly system as well, while its hard to understand both sides you gotta keep them in mind as well.

Even from perspective of a new player I would rather have more complex and deep system rather than user friendly :-/ For some reason in many cases we just can't have both.

I don't mean that there's not room for improvement, but it is quite difficult to make complex things user friendly without cutting some "unnecessary" features and mechanics.

 

[KimmyMarin]

Even from perspective of a new player I would rather have more complex and deep system rather than user friendly :-/ For some reason in many cases we just can't have both.

how can you say that ? theres gotta be a margin of difficulty not just have it *complex* and thats the problem we keep having with the saber.

 

[jewbacca]

theres gotta be a margin of difficulty

I do not understand what you mean.

Saber knowledge is not a linear progression, it's more like a tree with the newbie at its roots.

 

[KimmyMarin]

I do not understand what you mean.

Saber knowledge is not a linear progression, it's more like a tree with the newbie at its roots.

if only it was like a tree, either way i insist on the user friendly saber system, while you say its not possible to achieve both sides i think its possible if the dev in charge has this in mind as a goal.

 

[Rosh+]

Spoiler

now more relevant than ever

 

[Falsetto]

The immense butchering of the saber system -- the main draw of the game -- is why this mod is dying. Not only that, but as many other users have mentioned, there is absolutely no cohesive up-to-date guide on how to play the game whenever there's an update. This forces many people to learn things through guessing, selling their soul to a clan to just learn how to simply play the game, or trial and error. I myself have been playing for a long time and I don't understand many things about the saber system, yet the devs continue to alter and change it while a bewildered audience does their best to try and figure out what everything even means.

It's like pulling the rug out from under a toddler right as they're learning to walk, then they fall on their ass and start to cry again, which in turn angers the parent and they begin acting smug telling them to "adapt" or "stop complaining about change" when the poor kid doesn't even know what he's supposed to be doing in the first place. It's honestly pathetic.

 

[LanceOfLonginus]

every build in a nutshell:
"new and improved saber system"

 

[kvinto]

I think it would be way easier if everyone who says that he doesn't understand something would actually point out what's complicated instead of saying "beeeeee make newbie friendly saber system"

 

[jewbacca]

if only it was like a tree, either way i insist on the user friendly saber system, while you say its not possible to achieve both sides i think its possible if the dev in charge has this in mind as a goal.

Sun Tzu said
> if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle.
That's what happen to newbies in mb2. See, the problem is not just in complexity, unclear mechanics or lack of tutorials. It happens just because mb2 have unique gameplay, quite different from what newbie might have played before. Newbies try to extrapolate their prior experience to mb2 and fail.

while you say its not possible

Well, I do not know if it is possible or not, but I haven't seen any example of this being done. System as complex as mb2 sabering tend to be horrendous mess. Take any srs professional software like 3DS Max, or games like EVE Online - they are difficult to learn not because of bad design choices, but rather because they need to have all these features, or else they wouldn't be able to fulfill their role.

...
Im not saying that nothing can be done to improve, but I can see no room for radical improvement without losing layers of depth in actual gameplay.

 

[noel]

ITT: people cry because they cant get good at one of the best dueling games/melee games and systems ever created

seriously it's actually annoying me that people are suggesting to dumb down the saber system more, especially people who aren't even duelers

like fuck it who cares about the dueling side of the community, make open better!!!!!!

please don't listen to those monsters devs ))))

 

[KimmyMarin]

ITT: people cry because they cant get good at one of the best dueling games/melee games and systems ever created

seriously it's actually annoying me that people are suggesting to dumb down the saber system more, especially people who aren't even duelers

like F**k it who cares about the dueling side of the community, make open better!!!!!!

please don't listen to those monsters devs ))))

more like they shouldnt listen to you im sorry to disagree but we are in this situation because they have changed saber styles so much that it has lead to this kind of problem nowdays, so no is not the best dueling system ever created, it has potential to be one, and its sad that you express your opinion to the degree that you are taking it, and if dumb down is to actually have a balanced system with a certain level of difficulty and user friendly then i think you are entitled to only have it the way you want it, its not a saber system created just for you and those that are so *skilled at it* its for everyone and if the saber system was actually that great as you make it sound to be, you would have Duel servers more packed than they are right now.
geez stop being so selfish.
to devs: wether you take my opinion and others in regards for further development of the duel system in particular its up to you but i feel that i needed to come here and express my thoughts and perhaps some others that are not willing to say anything but just praise or say leave it as it is or go back to x duel system that we had, i hope you do keep in mind to think about the community as a whole when it comes to this particular issue that we are discussing, and not just having a one sided way trying to appeal to an specific sector instead of everyone involved in the community.

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

Complex? This is the silly myth of mb gameplay, sabers, guns, melee. It's all point and click.
You realize everything actually revolves around those 2 concepts? Pointing and clicking.

Simple stuff

Its only knowing where and when to point and click at any particular moment that adds depth.

 

[noel]

saber styles so much that it has lead to this kind of problem nowdays

what kind of problem? can you elaborate?

geez stop being so selfish.

so open players can be selfish and not duel players?

community as a whole

more people are disagreeing with you than are agreeing

its not a saber system created just for you and those that are so *skilled at it* its for everyone and if the saber system was actually that great as you make it sound to be, you would have Duel servers more packed than they are right now.

the mod isn't meant to be for people who aren't going to be dedicated. what you're suggesting is similar to if CSGO suddenly decided they'd remove recoil. Easy games and systems arent fun. that's why EA battlefront was so bad, that's why people who enjoy a challenge play MB2, if they want simplicity they can play base JKA, if they were to remove the complexity behind the saber system in MB2, it wouldn't be MB2 anymore. that's just my opinion, and likely the opinion of the entire dueling community (which might I add, was and still is one of the biggest selling points of MB2). if you disagree then cool but don't go around saying I'm speaking for a minority, because i'm definitely not

 

[KimmyMarin]

people that disagree are the ones from the forums go ask ppl in game what they think you clearly gotta approach those that are not in your circle of friends or a like, and again im not suggesting to make the game easy for a toddler, just suggesting that theres gotta be a balance with difficulty and make it user friendly at the same time but apparently thats the wrong idea here with you guys, clearly of why i said what i said on my previous post about appealing an specific sector instead of everyone as a whole, and no there shouldnt be any favoritism for duels or open or FA which is also a problem, that mode is way too set aside and it needs more attention as well, i know im not gonna change your mind cause you clearly are set on what you think and thats up to you, but im giving my thoughts to the Devs and wether they do take my opinion in mind its up to them and if not then at least i said my piece, im done.

 

[noel]

are the ones from the forums

what, so the people who love the community and bother to stay involved and voice their opinion, compared to what? the people that pick the game up once a year and play a round of open as a wookie?

gotta approach those that are not in your circle of friends

I don't know half of the people that liked Achilles's comments, SK's comment etc. I know for a fact if you went into a dueling server (which btw arent that much less popular than Open, the gap is always really over emphasized) and put the comment that soldier just made in the chat, the whole server would think you were joking.

I haven't got any beef with you or soldier, both seem sound and are clearly better/more longstanding members of the community than me, but that idea is completely terrible

be a balance with difficulty and make it user friendly at the same time

How doesnt it have that already? There's several guides, links all over the place to learn how to duel and I've seen people (like Skystalker) who have had the game less than a couple of months and are (because they're dedicated and find the system fun) really good already.

The only thing that isn't user friendly is figuring out where to find a guide, because there's no ingame tutorial or link in game to the guide section of the forums. Making the sabering system easier isn't going to fix that problem, if people want a dumber system, they can go to base JK, M&B Warband etc.

and no there shouldnt be any favoritism for duels or open or FA which is also a problem, that mode is way too set aside and it needs more attention as well

Then why are you suggesting that the sabering system gets changed to make a few people in Open happier? You're proving yourself wrong here

 

[SeV]

Seems like people are forgetting in this debate, that the devs decided to spend a bunch of time revamping the saber system and then finalizing it so it doesn't drastically change every patch any more. This is why 1.4.5 is just a bandaid patch, because the revamped stuff couldn't be pushed out in time. If it's the final system, there's gotta be thorough testing, open betas etc, but let's not forget that we're actually moving towards a finalized saber system. And once it's finalized I'm sure there will be up to date guides, the library, youtube videos etc to explain everything. Whether that system is to your liking or not, who knows. I mean, I've seen my slew of stupid proposals before like Oldben's proposal that PB be simplified to basically just locking your xhair on the enemy, but the troll-like suggestion of soldier to just remove all aspects of MBII sabering and have it be basejka with BP, has to take the cake for most idiotic suggestion by far and it feels like a troll suggestion...

EDIT: But by all means guys keep making suggestions, preferably fleshed out ones with reasoning behind the changes etc etc. The more well thought out your ideas are, the higher the chance that they will be considered.

 

[Falsetto]

There's several guides, links all over the place to learn how to duel and I've seen people (like Skystalker) who have had the game less than a couple of months and are (because they're dedicated and find the system fun) really good already.

Where? Because all that's easy to find are outdated guides that mention shit like saber perks and Q3. If the devs published a guide that was updated with each patch that was maybe co-written by good duelers people would probably hate the saber system less every time they gut it. At the very least, we'd understand how to play it.

They've gotten so used to complaints that they apparently ignore all of it as an indication of something being wrong and just "people crying". I don't remember nearly as much "crying" back in 1.3.

 

[S o l d i e r]

You guys are paranoid, my suggestion is 100% serious and I still stand behind it. You may not like it, but I do, and that's enough.

 

[Falsetto]

You guys are paranoid, my suggestion is 100% serious and I still stand behind it. You may not like it, but I do, and that's enough.

I have to disagree that MB2 saber system is better. Some people may find it like that, but I don't. I didn't even bother to learn it.

This statement discredits your entire suggestion.