Gameplay Direction Post 1.4.3

Gameplay Direction Post 1.4.3​

Hi Guys, I am Hexodious - In the last few weeks I've taken over as Gameplay Lead for Moviebattles II and its occured to me that we've never actually told you where we are headed or why we make specific changes in regards to gameplay. I'd like to use this as an opportunity to change that for us as a team to be more transparent moving forwards as we look to improve the game throughout future patches. This will also allow you to know what we are looking to change, and what kind of feedback we are looking for.

In 1.4.4 we are looking to freeze a solid core for Jedi/Sith in place so we won't have to touch these mechanics for at least a few major patches - This includes: Saber vs Saber, Saber vs Gun and Force Regeneration. I've been looking at a lot of the feedback we've received for 1.4.3 as well as playing a lot of Jedi/Sith in this build and given everyone's experience with 1.4.3, we want to improve on the mechanics that were introduced to make them smoother and a lot more engaging. The goal for Jedi/Sith is to improve their staying power while reducing their ability to retreat while under pressure. 1.4.3's regeneration mechanic did allow this to some extent but was too punishing for players who were trying to support their team.

Below I will break down the core changes we are exploring for 1.4.4.
Please note all of the below is subject to change before release.

FP Regeneration and Drains
Based on 1.4.3's feedback we will be tweaking the FP Regeneration mechanics so that you don't have to worry about holding block, in fact we encourage it.

We will still have 3 states of FP Drain:

• Defenseless (Saber Down/Melee/Idle/Meditate): Base FP Drains for weapons.
• Autoblock (Running): Increased FP Drains for weapons.
• Block: Greatly Decreased FP Drains for weapons.

And there will still be 4 states of FP Regeneration, but we have modified them slightly:

• Meditate:
  • FP Regeneration: Highest, Transition: Ramps up over time, Restrictions: Stationary.
• Defenseless (Saber Down/Melee/Idle):
  • FP Regeneration: Base, Transition: Ramps up over time, Restrictions: Can't Block.
• Defending (Autoblock/Holding Block):
  • FP Regeneration: Slightly lower than base, Transition: Instant.,Restrictions: None.
• Deflecting (Actively Being Shot):
  • FP Regeneration: Greatly lower than base, Transition: Instant Debuff, Duration: 3 seconds (duration can be refreshed each shot, and FP Bar's hue is darkened to indicate debuff is present), Restrictions: Only applies while holding Block.

This combination of drains and states allow us to still have the benefits of really low FP Drains while blocking but doesn't needlessly punish you for holding block while you are not being shot at, whether you are dueling the enemy saberists or supporting your back line. We haven't got the numbers quite in place yet, but after initial testing this feels much smoother and allows the Jedi to have much more freedom while still pushing towards a more active responsibility to manage their FP.



Sense
Sense is a highly debated force power, many would like the power removed completely while others see it as a staple ability that should not be touched. Based on the feedback we've seen we have decided to keep the ability largely similar to how it is, but adjusting how its activated and the durations. In 1.4.4 Sense will tie more into the FP management direction we want to see Jedi's moving towards by using a similar mechanic to Force Speed, another toggled ability but where the duration is solely based on your remaining FP pool.

• Rank 1: Activation Cost: 15FP, Tick Cost: 5FP, 20FP grants you 2s of Sense (equal to the current implementation, but you can have it on for longer if you wish to spend more FP).
• Rank 2: Activation Cost: 10FP, Tick Cost: 5FP, 20FP grants you 3s of Sense (an increase over the current implementation, and you can still choose to have it on longer if you wish to spend more FP).
• Rank 3: Activation Cost: 5FP, Tick Cost: 5FP, 20FP grants you 4s of Sense (a large decrease over the current implementation, but you can still choose to have it on longer if you wish to spend more FP).

These changes allow sense to still be used as an information gathering tool, but encourages smart use of the ability only having it on for as long as you need. Having sense on for a long time while setting up that ambush will leave you starved for FP, greatly increasing the enemy's chance to counter you.


Wall-grab
This ability is a real life-saver while moving around a map and dropping to lower levels, especially on maps like Deathstar. But there are certain players who like to use its ability to hang onto walls forever, often in unreachable locations that cause it to be used in ways we do not intend or to setup lengthy ambushes. As such, the new wall-grab mechanics will actively drain FP slowly while holding onto a wall, automatically drops you upon reaching 0 FP. Also, wall-grab can no longer be used to regenerate FP after bunny hopping.

These changes will still allow the ability to be used as a safe-fall but should prevent poorly planned ambushes. Players will need to better manage their FP pools by choosing the right moment to setup an ambush.


Saber Perks
We've been here before. While Saber vs Saber perks offer a nice diversity between the styles the Saber vs Gun perks adversely change the gameplay dynamics we'd like to see during Saber vs Gun fights. For this reason Saber vs Gun perks won't be included in future builds. Expect refinements to the Saber System and updated Saber vs Saber perks in 1.4.4.


Deflect
This is another ability that greatly benefits from the reduced Block drains and as such we've made some tweaks while updating the mechanics to be less ping dependent. In 1.4.3 Cyan had the ability to deflect by simply holding attack while blocking, this allowed the player to focus entirely on aiming but was too powerful with continuous FP regeneration (even at slow speeds). We liked the quality of life this provided and have applied it to all ranks of deflect (with the Cyan deflect perk being removed). Deflect is in all cases activated by holding attack while blocking and pauses FP regeneration.

• Rank 1: Rapidly Drains FP while held, Cannot be used inside IDR.
• Rank 2: Slowly Drains FP while held, Can be used inside IDR, Cannot be used inside Flinch range.
• Rank 3: Does not Drain FP while held, Can be used inside IDR, Cannot be used inside Flinch range.

Deflecting fits the Jedi fantasy perfectly and gives them a great way to support allies at range beyond push and sense. Now the Jedi must make an active choice to pause their FP regeneration completely in order to reflect shots at the enemy. This still makes Jedi want to wisely time their Deflects as holding it down during a full barrage will quickly deplete your FP pool, but is much more friendly for players of higher ping. We didn't like how in previous builds deflect could be used to facehug someone to death, and while this issue still remains in the form of random deflects, we are able to minimize it greatly.


What about Gunners?

We are mostly happy with the way a lot of the gun classes work. While there are a few things we'd like to look at *cough* SBD *cough* the following are being changed in 1.4.4:

Projectile Rifle
The initial reason behind the Projectile Rifle FP change was to allow Jedi to survive a pop snipe from around a corner, but pop sniping was very fun to do. In reflection of this we've decided to bring back the protection for running Jedi outside of IDR and allow shot-gun snipes to exist vs running Jedi only. A blocking Jedi will be able to protect against a sniper rifle at any range.

• FP Drain Inside IDR while running: Uncapped.
• FP Drain Outside IDR while running: 40.
• FP Drain Inside IDR while blocking <40.

ARC Westar M5
The ammo on this thing has been too low for too long, we heard you. We are increasing the max ammo capacity of the Westar M5 to be inline with other weapons of its type.

• Ammo 1: From 240 > 360.
• Ammo 2: From 360 > 480.
• Ammo 3: From 480 > 600.

This change is very self-explanatory, we feel that ARCs are in a good place at the moment and are very versatile. But the extremely low ammo count was causing too many issues - especially on higher population servers, where the ARC felt like he couldn't provide supporting cover.

Dodge
While the new dodge mechanic does what we want it to, it feels a bit too cumbersome by forcing you into a movement state based on rank and having to hold a button at the same time. We want Dodge to be used to get through chokepoints and suppressed areas, but not to let you tank huge amounts of shots for free. We also thought it was too hard to glance at your Dodge Points while they were being drawn as small numbers and have re-introduced the Dodge Bar.

In all cases, dodge is activated by holding it and has no movement restrictions.It also cannot be used while scoped.

• Rank 1: Cost: A full bar drains over 1 second. Cannot be used up close.
• Rank 2: Cost: A full bar drains over 2 second. Cannot be used up close.
• Rank 3: Cost: A full bar drains over 3 second. Can be used fairly close.

These changes still allow Dodge to be use as a cover breaker while requiring a manual activation to complete. We wanted to keep the current Disruptors(Stationary/Hitscan) vs Projectile(Mobile/Pop-snipe) balance in Sniper vs Sniper engagements but wanted to still provide an alternative option to fight back. Dodge will allow you break the usual corner-play and press the offensive or fallback into cover while you are being shot at. We are still exploring the Hold mechanic over a form of Toggle, similar to what we've introduced for Sense.

Dash
Bringing dodge into a more manual ability was causing conflicts with Dash and Dodge Points. We want players to be able to Dash freely and not to worry about their remaining Dodge Points, at the same time we didn't like the gameplay double dashing in a row would cause skewing balance in the favour of the Hero. Dash has been changed as follows:

• Rank 1:
  • Dashes a short distance in the current movement direction.
  • 2.5s cool-down.
  • Doesn't share a cool-down with Melee moves.
  • Same activation.
  • Unlimited uses.
• Rank 2:
  • Dodges any incoming blasters for the duration of the dash animation.

The cool-down still allows Dash to be used as an intended quick escape or combat positioning tool but prevents double Dashing to escape instances where you may poorly used the ability. At the same time we didn't want to interrupt fun combos such as Dash into Flying Kick, similar to how Blob and Flying Kick function as independent cool-downs.



Final Thoughts

We are excited to get these changes out to you as soon as possible and are committed to continuing progress of the game. The above items are unlikely to change bar number tweaks, but now that we've been able to give you an insight into the direction we are taking we would love to hear back from you on new features, weapons, abilities and mechanics you'd love to see included into Movie Battles II in future builds following 1.4.4.

 

[Darth Pujge]

Will sense 3 still produce a sound every time you activate it?

 

[DaloLorn]

And in anticipation of the less interesting comments, let me throw an also-less-interesting comment: this is not coming from a gunner-addict, my best class by far has always been jedi, such that whenever i play it, it feels so easy to almost never get killed and rampage the servers with consistent 10/1 KD even when the level on the server is high, that i just can't help but think something must be wrong.

Good for you. Unfortunately, it does little to alter your actual arguments.

And a good part of what's wrong comes from the survivability sense gives.

Survivability. Sense. Does not compute.

The ability to know where the enemy is without being seen yourself is only good for survivability if you intend to come at them from behind or avoid getting attacked (including ambush detection, which is the only real value of that ability). The former doesn't work on all maps and it especially doesn't work if there's an opposing sense user/spectator to root you out. The latter just flat out doesn't work - your team gets slaughtered while you're off hiding, and one of three things happen next:

1. A large force of hostiles tracks you down eventually, possibly aided by their dead teammates or even your own dead teammates getting tired of your timewasting.
2. If you're on the attacking team, the round timer expires.
3. If you're on the defending team, the enemy does the objective.

The only exception is when you're on the attacking team and the enemy either doesn't have the manpower or the teamwork required to block off all possible routes to the objective - I've occasionally seen that happen, a couple of people hold one approach against a superior local force while the rest of the team slaughters any defenders along another route and just bolts for the objective.

Also, don't give me "gunners are so strong with flinch and all", no sorry, that is just a symptom of the fact that newer players tend to choose jedi class which leaves a higher ratio of veterans choosing gunners hence the result.

Debatable on all counts, but seeing as I'm not massively opposed to the concept of flinching (the implementation has several key flaws that have yet to be addressed), I'll let it slide.

When a gunner faces a jedi at same skill level, he is really, really screwed and yes, including wook/SBD though they have more chance (with the sole exception being discharge deka 1v1 which is a never-ending stalemate).

Laughable. Plainly laughable.

Of the three classes you mentioned by name, I feel that Wookiees are by far the least effective - barring the occasional skilled flincher armed with a BC3, your average Wookiee will tend to eat a red swing from most half-competent Sith (including myself) and be quickly forgotten. That much we can agree on, I suppose - though they certainly are on the level of most gunner classes, with the exception of plain soldiers and ETs. (Plain, simple flinching aside, different methods are required, but all the other classes have some kind of trick that allows them to fight saberists more effectively than soldiers - from heroes dashing and P3ing to clone blobs to BH darts, Wookiee bowcasters/rage, the Mando bag of tricks or the dogged persistence of ARC-fu... all a soldier has except flinching is three lives and a limited supply of grenades.)

SBDs are pretty much broken in 1.4. Pre-1.4, you had a choice between being slapped down and slaughtered, or crouching and taking more damage (possibly lethally so) while you threw out a combo or two to kill the SBD. In 1.4, you have to choose between being slapped down and slaughtered, or crouching, being flinched to death, and again being slaughtered. Any half-decent SBD will do this just fine. (Alas, I am not one such SBD - I've always been more of a 'move around, dodge and wither them down' sort of gunner than 'take damage and deal greater damage', so the Empire has very little that attracts me.)

As for droidekas... your remark about 'never-ending stalemate' is probably the most egregious error you've made. Depending on how careful the Jedi is, and how much the droideka runs around, one of several things will inevitably occur:

• The Jedi gets discharged and shot at, repeatedly. This may or may not be fatal - however, it may be a recurring event, and thus, fatal.
• The Jedi runs out of FP and is shot down.
• The Jedi is repeatedly flinched and shot down.
• The Jedi gets tired of chasing the damn thing around and goes back to working on the objective. (This may or may not be fatal for him, depending on his situational awareness and the map in question - the droid might pursue him to the objective and possibly kill him before he realizes what's going on.)
• The droideka runs out of shields to discharge with. If it escapes in time, okay - but if it doesn't, it gets killed, especially if it's fighting against a deka-hunter build like the ones I used to make, with a red or purple speed lunge to close the distance and kill without a second thought. 1.4.3 makes that non-viable, at least for me, because the FP regen changes mean there's no second chances (especially if the droideka does have backup) and, combined with the dueling changes, mean I'm completely useless with that build against anything that isn't a lumbering, overengineered tripod.
• The droideka gets caught by a lucky swing. Whether it's a successful lunge by the Jedi, or a failed/mistimed flinch/discharge (depending on angle of attack) by the droideka, it doesn't matter - the fight is over.

The only way for a stalemate to occur is if both sides tacitly agree to maintain it for fear of giving their opponent a chance to make the kill, and even then it's an unstable equilibrium - if someone else shows up, or one side makes a mistake/gets lucky, the stalemate could be broken even without the round timer looming over their heads.

 

[Blazer]

SBD's are the type of thing where they are hard to kill but are also easy, like:
The sbd will 1v1 a jedi and kill the jedi but the jedi brings SBD's health really low then the SBD gets one shot by a gun or saber. What I'm saying is that SBDs are really powerful in 1v1's but after the 1v1, the SBD is likely to have no health then just dies.
I think SBD's are fine, they just need to be killed with teamwork and to 2v1 SBD's to kill them.

To me some of the biggest problems in the game are projectile. I always find myself in every map having to cower behind a wall until my team pushes because on the enemy team theres like 2-4 proj's always being shot and if you peek out for 0.5 seconds you're picked off and then have to wait 3 minutes to play the same exact situation. I find myself just sitting, waiting for my team to push so i can also push to find more cover so i wont die immediatly from a hidden proj that will peek out of no where and blast me into another galaxy

 

[Blazer]

Also devs, have you thought about changing grip? Nothing more annoying than just simply dueling someone and constantly getting a Red hand next to your screen telling you you're getting gripped, then having to jump out the way wasting precious BP.
I thought about having grip cost 5 fp every second you TRY to use it. Or possibly using BP (maybe) to prevent its spam.

 

[Darth Pujge]

Also devs, have you thought about changing grip? Nothing more annoying than just simply dueling someone and constantly getting a Red hand next to your screen telling you you're getting gripped, then having to jump out the way wasting precious BP.
I thought about having grip cost 5 fp every second you TRY to use it. Or possibly using BP (maybe) to prevent its spam.

If someone is trying to grip you in a duel then just attack them. Attacking them will disrupt the grip process and it basically means free ACM. Be careful of people who try to use grip to bait you into attacking so they can slap you down or pblock counter you.

 

[Blazer]

If someone is trying to grip you in a duel then just attack them. Attacking them will disrupt the grip process and it basically means free ACM. Be careful of people who try to use grip to bait you into attacking so they can slap you down or pblock counter you.

Didn't know that attacking them canceled it. Thanks.

 

[Fang]

I honestly think people fail to realise the potential that grip and lightning have on gunners. As well as mind trick and speed.

I'm gonna say it right now as well. The most useful sith and jedi in terms of support right now. I would laugh at if you told me in previous builds due to these force user nerfs lolol
Morro Frost (excuse my spelling I can't recall exact name) is one of the most useful with and agitating against sith to play because he plays the role of support sith with lightning and repulse (no saber required) whilst these other nerds running with sabers barely know the F1 key exists when they buy push lmao.

Similary with jedi, lynt shows that saber defence 0, mind trick, speed (and push I believe) can gain you solo top fragging easy peasy.

I do wonder though if these nerfs have made users use these builds though.
Rip Lynt though, sense 3 for 4 seconds no ninja 4 u

Flinch is fair trade if you ask me for what these force powers have to offer

 

[Darth Pujge]

I honestly think people fail to realise the potential that grip and lightning have on gunners. As well as mind trick and speed.

I'm gonna say it right now as well. The most useful sith and jedi in terms of support right now. I would laugh at if you told me in previous builds due to these force user nerfs lolol
Morro Frost (excuse my spelling I can't recall exact name) is one of the most useful with and agitating against sith to play because he plays the role of support sith with lightning and repulse (no saber required) whilst these other nerds running with sabers barely know the F1 key exists when they buy push lmao.

Similary with jedi, lynt shows that saber defence 0, mind trick, speed (and push I believe) can gain you solo top fragging easy peasy.

Hey I do the same thing! You can just shove people over with lightning push and repulse to give your gunners super easy kills. No more quick get-ups for jedi/heroes etc. C:

 

[Blazer]

Yes People fail to realize how good FW is and just lightning. Yesterday It was a 4v1, a hero, jedi, soldier, and an ARC vs me with blue saber, no defense, and just lightning 3. I won that match just by picking each of them off one by one.

 

[DaloLorn]

SBD's are the type of thing where they are hard to kill but are also easy, like:
The sbd will 1v1 a jedi and kill the jedi but the jedi brings SBD's health really low then the SBD gets one shot by a gun or saber. What I'm saying is that SBDs are really powerful in 1v1's but after the 1v1, the SBD is likely to have no health then just dies.
I think SBD's are fine, they just need to be killed with teamwork and to 2v1 SBD's to kill them.

Depends on the Jedi - some might not do a lot of damage at all. Besides, if 2v1 is the only counter to an SBD (not an entirely accurate description unless your team consists solely of Jedi), then what do you do when the enemy team sends in several of them? It's thinking like that that currently bugs me with regards to droidekas as well - with my anti-gunner capabilities drastically reducing with each consecutive patch, and my dueling credentials voided by 1.4.3, the only thing I can reliably play is ARCs - and my builds do not have the room for pulse grenades even if I were absolutely certain they'd be enough to stop people like Q-11 or Yellow 13 from completely locking down an entire corridor at their leisure.

To me some of the biggest problems in the game are projectile. I always find myself in every map having to cower behind a wall until my team pushes because on the enemy team theres like 2-4 proj's always being shot and if you peek out for 0.5 seconds you're picked off and then have to wait 3 minutes to play the same exact situation. I find myself just sitting, waiting for my team to push so i can also push to find more cover so i wont die immediatly from a hidden proj that will peek out of no where and blast me into another galaxy

That's why I try to avoid crowds. Where the crowd goes, most of the enemy snipers will as well - I'm much more comfortable either holing down near the spawn with as many allies as I can recruit or taking an alternate route to either avoid snipers or force them into close combat where their rifles aren't as effective.

 

[Fang]

Hey I do the same thing! You can just shove people over with lightning push and repulse to give your gunners super easy kills. No more quick get-ups for jedi/heroes etc. C:

With the current force caps in terms of Force Block (2 being 80? and 3 being 50?) its free kills for force hoes when the gunner shots em like 3 times rip

@DaloLorn I actually do similar, I avoid going main now and go generator with hero mostly every time and/or wait for the doors. Suicide main with imperials getting into main first mean I have the entire British wannabe execution squad waiting on their end. Try and dash with a hero and see what happens when muskets and laz0rs come flying into ya face lmao

 

[Blazer]

Depends on the Jedi - some might not do a lot of damage at all. Besides, if 2v1 is the only counter to an SBD (not an entirely accurate description unless your team consists solely of Jedi), then what do you do when the enemy team sends in several of them? It's thinking like that that currently bugs me with regards to droidekas as well - with my anti-gunner capabilities drastically reducing with each consecutive patch, and my dueling credentials voided by 1.4.3, the only thing I can reliably play is ARCs - and my builds do not have the room for pulse grenades even if I were absolutely certain they'd be enough to stop people like Q-11 or Yellow 13 from completely locking down an entire corridor at their leisure.



That's why I try to avoid crowds. Where the crowd goes, most of the enemy snipers will as well - I'm much more comfortable either holing down near the spawn with as many allies as I can recruit or taking an alternate route to either avoid snipers or force them into close combat where their rifles aren't as effective.

Yeah theres also a problem with SBD,ARC,CLONE,DEKA,And WOOK. This game is one big rock,paper,sciscors. ARC beats SBD with pulse, but deka also loses to pulse ARC, but SBD beats jedi, but jedi loses to discharge deka, but deka loses to ion clone, ion clone loses to sith, sith loses to ARC Dexterity, ARC dexterity loses to SBD because no points for pulse, then concussion blob clone loses to SBD because no ion, SO ON AND SO FORTH.........

 

[DaloLorn]

Yes People fail to realize how good FW is and just lightning. Yesterday It was a 4v1, a hero, jedi, soldier, and an ARC vs me with blue saber, no defense, and just lightning 3. I won that match just by picking each of them off one by one.

Honestly, lightning needs some adjustment. Offensively, you're screwed if there's no Jedi/Wookiee to brave the storm, and defensively, if the Sith makes it close enough, you're screwed again if the above conditions are met. There's absolutely nothing you can do except run around and pray he runs out of FP before you run out of HP - and that's assuming he wasn't planning to use it to stun you long enough to carve you up. I didn't notice/mind it so much back when I had the option of picking up a lightsaber and fighting him on more equal terms, but now...

 

[Fang]

Yeah theres also a problem with SBD,ARC,CLONE,DEKA,And WOOK. This game is one big rock,paper,sciscors. ARC beats SBD with pulse, but deka also loses to pulse ARC, but SBD beats jedi, but jedi loses to discharge deka, but deka loses to ion clone, ion clone loses to sith, sith loses to ARC Dexterity, ARC dexterity loses to SBD because no points for pulse, then concussion blob clone loses to SBD because no ion, SO ON AND SO FORTH.........

Honestly, lightning needs some adjustment. Offensively, you're screwed if there's no Jedi/Wookiee to brave the storm, and defensively, if the Sith makes it close enough, you're screwed again if the above conditions are met. There's absolutely nothing you can do except run around and pray he runs out of FP before you run out of HP - and that's assuming he wasn't planning to use it to stun you long enough to carve you up. I didn't notice/mind it so much back when I had the option of picking up a lightsaber and fighting him on more equal terms, but now...

I do agree some things are too strong but I never have a problem when im with competent guys/gals

Tis why we play in a ------------->TEAM BASED SHOOTER MOD<-------------

Sucks to come across your counterer if you're alone and/or with the same classes who happen to be your worst nightmare lolol

 

[DaloLorn]

Tis why we play in a ------------->TEAM BASED SHOOTER MOD<-------------

Putting aside the fact that teamplay sometimes fails to even materialize, let alone work, teamplay can occur without hard RPS elements.

Case in point, ARC sniper is fairly ineffective against Sith in 1v1 combat (you typically only get one chance to get a shot off, and at flinch range the scope makes a tricky task even harder), but occupy that Sith with a Jedi duelist and that same sniper can end the battle, regardless of what the outcome normally would have been, in a matter of seconds. (I do this occasionally - it helps that, swing/slap vulnerabilities aside, by the time most Sith realize they took the first hit, the second is already about to collide with their rear end... if I aimed it right, which I often don't.)

 

[Fang]

Ya, Theres just a lot of factors to consider when making claims about x being underpower or x being overpowered.
Using you case by point example
1) is that ARC actually good
2) is the sith opponent actually good
3)What is the loadout of both classes? Which one has the superior loadout suited for the 1v1
4)Where are they situated, on a catwalk?
5)Can you set aside your bias of being good to make a claim that is actually showing its OP/UP or are you crying because you cant win lol (if that was the case, I'd be crying about mind trick right now but it's because the player who rekts me with it 24/7 has sense 3 and mt which counters my gunner strats forcing me into sith or sbd (or if I really don't want to BH track dart spam))

6)(NON CASE BY POINT) Is your class meant to be countered by the opposition.

If you're going into federation from side corridor as an arc, expect sith to have a surprise advantage sadly. Vice versa, in hang the arc has the advantage (so long as he has aim) due to his dexterity (assuming the loadout) and large area to maneuver


There's just so much to consider when you think about it which is why I find it hard to accept something is OP or UP.

 

[Darth Pujge]

Survivability. Sense. Does not compute.

The ability to know where the enemy is without being seen yourself is only good for survivability if you intend to come at them from behind or avoid getting attacked (including ambush detection, which is the only real value of that ability). The former doesn't work on all maps and it especially doesn't work if there's an opposing sense user/spectator to root you out. The latter just flat out doesn't work - your team gets slaughtered while you're off hiding...

Sense is extremely helpful (and in my opinion it's mandatory) when you're a force whore. Simply charging the enemy will pretty much always result in instant death so you need to use planning with sense to put yourself into advantagous ambushing position or areas where you can support your team. The result is many free kills for your friendly gunners, or successful ambushes with lightning/super push/repulse.

Honestly, lightning needs some adjustment. Offensively, you're screwed if there's no Jedi/Wookiee to brave the storm, and defensively, if the Sith makes it close enough, you're screwed again if the above conditions are met. There's absolutely nothing you can do except run around and pray he runs out of FP before you run out of HP - and that's assuming he wasn't planning to use it to stun you long enough to carve you up. I didn't notice/mind it so much back when I had the option of picking up a lightsaber and fighting him on more equal terms, but now...

I agree with this. Poor soldiers or people with low hp have no chance whatsoever, especially when you ambush them. :C

 

[DaloLorn]

Ya, Theres just a lot of factors to consider when making claims about x being underpower or x being overpowered.
Using you case by point example
1) is that ARC actually good
2) is the sith opponent actually good
3)What is the loadout of both classes? Which one has the superior loadout suited for the 1v1
4)Where are they situated, on a catwalk?

I should point out that I specifically singled out the M5's sniper mode. Unlike the M5 itself, I have yet to see anyone use that successfully in close combat against anyone, least of all a Sith.

Anyway, drawing from my own experience:

1) The ARC is a half-decent to crappy gunner - he knows a thing or two and is certainly above 'hi there, I just got the game, how do I shoot?', and dexterity 3 is of massive aid to him.
2) The skill of the Sith opponent varies from crappy to great - let's assume that he knows better than to physically shut off his saber and go into melee.
3) Sith has any saber-using loadout of your choosing, assuming he has no more than 2 saber styles and does use all of his skill points. Grip is potentially the weakest build.

ARC has M5 2 with a scope, dexterity 3 and stamina 2 or 3.
4) All sorts of places - I personally make a point of avoiding areas where I can get pushed into oblivion, Jedi or no Jedi.

Sense is extremely helpful (and in my opinion it's mandatory) when you're a force whore. Simply charging the enemy will pretty much always result in instant death so you need to use planning with sense to put yourself into advantagous ambushing position or areas where you can support your team. The result is many free kills for your friendly gunners, or successful ambushes with lightning/super push/repulse.

I agree with this. Poor soldiers don't even have the hp to survive lightning without the damage boost from lightning push + they can't shoot back or run away which is just dumb.. :C

Oh yes, non-saberists have a much greater need for sense - but again, it boils down to 'being able to launch a surprise attack without physically seeing the enemy' or 'being able to avoid enemy attacks', both of which are still subject to my subsequent analysis.

 

[Victoria]

The goal is not to nerf jedi/sith but make them harder to play.

Plz mb2 team:
- More jedi nerfs

I wish advise to developers nerf their fervor

 

[CC-1119 'Appo']

shameless plug:
Appo's Arc Feedback for [CURRENT UPDATE NUMBER HERE]

ARC is a good class and doesn't need much changing honestly, I feel that a grappling hook is also a bit intrusive on Mando's specialty so it's best to avoid that, arcs are the most mobile (not the fastest) on the ground while mando are the most mobile in the air.

M5 sniper is pretty worthless but might get better because now that we have more ammo, you can actually shoot a few shots as you need, on average, 2 - 3 (20 - 30 ammo) shots to kill unless you are headshotting every shot, which is pretty unlikely. It also doesn't deal enough damage for the ammo drain, you deal the damage of 3 shots for the ammo cost of 5 shots.

Pulse nades are pulse nades, way too high a cost for what they do. They deal barely any outright damage and so need a follow up. For 10 points. If you don't follow them up they're basically pointless and you're better off using frag nades. Either give me two pulse nades for 10 pts or give me 1 pulse nade for 4 - 6 points.

Dexterity is very good but dex 2 is required at a minimum. If you're playing ARC without dex you're basically just playing a worse clone or worse hero depending on your build, the PLX is alright but you're more likely to teamkill by proxy (push from sith) than kill the enemy in an actual game. I'd say give us Dex 1 for free, dex 2 for 5 pts and dex 3 for 15 points. That way you could actually afford a versatile loadout and wouldn't be as costly, (20 vs current 30), you'd also be able to get a pulse nade.