Gameplay Direction Post 1.4.3

Gameplay Direction Post 1.4.3​

Hi Guys, I am Hexodious - In the last few weeks I've taken over as Gameplay Lead for Moviebattles II and its occured to me that we've never actually told you where we are headed or why we make specific changes in regards to gameplay. I'd like to use this as an opportunity to change that for us as a team to be more transparent moving forwards as we look to improve the game throughout future patches. This will also allow you to know what we are looking to change, and what kind of feedback we are looking for.

In 1.4.4 we are looking to freeze a solid core for Jedi/Sith in place so we won't have to touch these mechanics for at least a few major patches - This includes: Saber vs Saber, Saber vs Gun and Force Regeneration. I've been looking at a lot of the feedback we've received for 1.4.3 as well as playing a lot of Jedi/Sith in this build and given everyone's experience with 1.4.3, we want to improve on the mechanics that were introduced to make them smoother and a lot more engaging. The goal for Jedi/Sith is to improve their staying power while reducing their ability to retreat while under pressure. 1.4.3's regeneration mechanic did allow this to some extent but was too punishing for players who were trying to support their team.

Below I will break down the core changes we are exploring for 1.4.4.
Please note all of the below is subject to change before release.

FP Regeneration and Drains
Based on 1.4.3's feedback we will be tweaking the FP Regeneration mechanics so that you don't have to worry about holding block, in fact we encourage it.

We will still have 3 states of FP Drain:

• Defenseless (Saber Down/Melee/Idle/Meditate): Base FP Drains for weapons.
• Autoblock (Running): Increased FP Drains for weapons.
• Block: Greatly Decreased FP Drains for weapons.

And there will still be 4 states of FP Regeneration, but we have modified them slightly:

• Meditate:
  • FP Regeneration: Highest, Transition: Ramps up over time, Restrictions: Stationary.
• Defenseless (Saber Down/Melee/Idle):
  • FP Regeneration: Base, Transition: Ramps up over time, Restrictions: Can't Block.
• Defending (Autoblock/Holding Block):
  • FP Regeneration: Slightly lower than base, Transition: Instant.,Restrictions: None.
• Deflecting (Actively Being Shot):
  • FP Regeneration: Greatly lower than base, Transition: Instant Debuff, Duration: 3 seconds (duration can be refreshed each shot, and FP Bar's hue is darkened to indicate debuff is present), Restrictions: Only applies while holding Block.

This combination of drains and states allow us to still have the benefits of really low FP Drains while blocking but doesn't needlessly punish you for holding block while you are not being shot at, whether you are dueling the enemy saberists or supporting your back line. We haven't got the numbers quite in place yet, but after initial testing this feels much smoother and allows the Jedi to have much more freedom while still pushing towards a more active responsibility to manage their FP.



Sense
Sense is a highly debated force power, many would like the power removed completely while others see it as a staple ability that should not be touched. Based on the feedback we've seen we have decided to keep the ability largely similar to how it is, but adjusting how its activated and the durations. In 1.4.4 Sense will tie more into the FP management direction we want to see Jedi's moving towards by using a similar mechanic to Force Speed, another toggled ability but where the duration is solely based on your remaining FP pool.

• Rank 1: Activation Cost: 15FP, Tick Cost: 5FP, 20FP grants you 2s of Sense (equal to the current implementation, but you can have it on for longer if you wish to spend more FP).
• Rank 2: Activation Cost: 10FP, Tick Cost: 5FP, 20FP grants you 3s of Sense (an increase over the current implementation, and you can still choose to have it on longer if you wish to spend more FP).
• Rank 3: Activation Cost: 5FP, Tick Cost: 5FP, 20FP grants you 4s of Sense (a large decrease over the current implementation, but you can still choose to have it on longer if you wish to spend more FP).

These changes allow sense to still be used as an information gathering tool, but encourages smart use of the ability only having it on for as long as you need. Having sense on for a long time while setting up that ambush will leave you starved for FP, greatly increasing the enemy's chance to counter you.


Wall-grab
This ability is a real life-saver while moving around a map and dropping to lower levels, especially on maps like Deathstar. But there are certain players who like to use its ability to hang onto walls forever, often in unreachable locations that cause it to be used in ways we do not intend or to setup lengthy ambushes. As such, the new wall-grab mechanics will actively drain FP slowly while holding onto a wall, automatically drops you upon reaching 0 FP. Also, wall-grab can no longer be used to regenerate FP after bunny hopping.

These changes will still allow the ability to be used as a safe-fall but should prevent poorly planned ambushes. Players will need to better manage their FP pools by choosing the right moment to setup an ambush.


Saber Perks
We've been here before. While Saber vs Saber perks offer a nice diversity between the styles the Saber vs Gun perks adversely change the gameplay dynamics we'd like to see during Saber vs Gun fights. For this reason Saber vs Gun perks won't be included in future builds. Expect refinements to the Saber System and updated Saber vs Saber perks in 1.4.4.


Deflect
This is another ability that greatly benefits from the reduced Block drains and as such we've made some tweaks while updating the mechanics to be less ping dependent. In 1.4.3 Cyan had the ability to deflect by simply holding attack while blocking, this allowed the player to focus entirely on aiming but was too powerful with continuous FP regeneration (even at slow speeds). We liked the quality of life this provided and have applied it to all ranks of deflect (with the Cyan deflect perk being removed). Deflect is in all cases activated by holding attack while blocking and pauses FP regeneration.

• Rank 1: Rapidly Drains FP while held, Cannot be used inside IDR.
• Rank 2: Slowly Drains FP while held, Can be used inside IDR, Cannot be used inside Flinch range.
• Rank 3: Does not Drain FP while held, Can be used inside IDR, Cannot be used inside Flinch range.

Deflecting fits the Jedi fantasy perfectly and gives them a great way to support allies at range beyond push and sense. Now the Jedi must make an active choice to pause their FP regeneration completely in order to reflect shots at the enemy. This still makes Jedi want to wisely time their Deflects as holding it down during a full barrage will quickly deplete your FP pool, but is much more friendly for players of higher ping. We didn't like how in previous builds deflect could be used to facehug someone to death, and while this issue still remains in the form of random deflects, we are able to minimize it greatly.


What about Gunners?

We are mostly happy with the way a lot of the gun classes work. While there are a few things we'd like to look at *cough* SBD *cough* the following are being changed in 1.4.4:

Projectile Rifle
The initial reason behind the Projectile Rifle FP change was to allow Jedi to survive a pop snipe from around a corner, but pop sniping was very fun to do. In reflection of this we've decided to bring back the protection for running Jedi outside of IDR and allow shot-gun snipes to exist vs running Jedi only. A blocking Jedi will be able to protect against a sniper rifle at any range.

• FP Drain Inside IDR while running: Uncapped.
• FP Drain Outside IDR while running: 40.
• FP Drain Inside IDR while blocking <40.

ARC Westar M5
The ammo on this thing has been too low for too long, we heard you. We are increasing the max ammo capacity of the Westar M5 to be inline with other weapons of its type.

• Ammo 1: From 240 > 360.
• Ammo 2: From 360 > 480.
• Ammo 3: From 480 > 600.

This change is very self-explanatory, we feel that ARCs are in a good place at the moment and are very versatile. But the extremely low ammo count was causing too many issues - especially on higher population servers, where the ARC felt like he couldn't provide supporting cover.

Dodge
While the new dodge mechanic does what we want it to, it feels a bit too cumbersome by forcing you into a movement state based on rank and having to hold a button at the same time. We want Dodge to be used to get through chokepoints and suppressed areas, but not to let you tank huge amounts of shots for free. We also thought it was too hard to glance at your Dodge Points while they were being drawn as small numbers and have re-introduced the Dodge Bar.

In all cases, dodge is activated by holding it and has no movement restrictions.It also cannot be used while scoped.

• Rank 1: Cost: A full bar drains over 1 second. Cannot be used up close.
• Rank 2: Cost: A full bar drains over 2 second. Cannot be used up close.
• Rank 3: Cost: A full bar drains over 3 second. Can be used fairly close.

These changes still allow Dodge to be use as a cover breaker while requiring a manual activation to complete. We wanted to keep the current Disruptors(Stationary/Hitscan) vs Projectile(Mobile/Pop-snipe) balance in Sniper vs Sniper engagements but wanted to still provide an alternative option to fight back. Dodge will allow you break the usual corner-play and press the offensive or fallback into cover while you are being shot at. We are still exploring the Hold mechanic over a form of Toggle, similar to what we've introduced for Sense.

Dash
Bringing dodge into a more manual ability was causing conflicts with Dash and Dodge Points. We want players to be able to Dash freely and not to worry about their remaining Dodge Points, at the same time we didn't like the gameplay double dashing in a row would cause skewing balance in the favour of the Hero. Dash has been changed as follows:

• Rank 1:
  • Dashes a short distance in the current movement direction.
  • 2.5s cool-down.
  • Doesn't share a cool-down with Melee moves.
  • Same activation.
  • Unlimited uses.
• Rank 2:
  • Dodges any incoming blasters for the duration of the dash animation.

The cool-down still allows Dash to be used as an intended quick escape or combat positioning tool but prevents double Dashing to escape instances where you may poorly used the ability. At the same time we didn't want to interrupt fun combos such as Dash into Flying Kick, similar to how Blob and Flying Kick function as independent cool-downs.



Final Thoughts

We are excited to get these changes out to you as soon as possible and are committed to continuing progress of the game. The above items are unlikely to change bar number tweaks, but now that we've been able to give you an insight into the direction we are taking we would love to hear back from you on new features, weapons, abilities and mechanics you'd love to see included into Movie Battles II in future builds following 1.4.4.

 

[Fang]

It's a major advantage to me ping wise. It allows me to keep up with ping advantaged players.
Vice versa, when I'm equally pinged to an opponent, it never really bothered me whether I could continue saber combo or not.

Perhaps make it a toogle feature for servers to satisfy the needs of the duel server? Servers who prefer the PB breaker feature can toggle it with a command like cg_blockbreaker 0/1?


Oh, and for the record
Glorious
Master
Race
Shotgun
Sniper.

 

[Stassin]

As usual reading gameplay feedback is the one fun time of the day.

One side: PB combo-break is horrible, clunky, and i can't believe someone actually thought something that removes control had a place in the game, thank god it's finally gone, better late than never.

Other side: Plz bring back PB combo-break, it's the only thing that can prevent spam based on skillful execution, i can't believe the devs keep going back and forth and removing great ideas in the process, bring back asap, dueling sucks so much without it.


EDIT: also,

One side: Cyan and purple are definitely good additions, they were just balanced poorly, but removing them is without a doubt utterly retarded.

Other side: Yeah i agree adding cyan and purple was one of the worst things that could have happened to the game, these animations are so horrible these styles will never be anything else than cancer, plz grow some balls, admit your mistake and remove them already.

 

[Liniyka_xddd]

If you nerf jedi much more you might as well remove it as a class.

Also I noticed this the last couple of builds and I think I made a comment on it a few times, but jedi / sith sense 3 dodge does not work on mando snipers for sure and I'm not 100% about arc snipers. If it dodges both ruptor and proj it should also dodge both of those.

What? So basically, you have so little situational/map awareness as a jedi/sith that you cannot play the class without a wallhack?

 

[Crusade010]

As for dueling I would say return to 1.4.2, It wasn't perfect sure, but 1.4.3 added parries which is a bit pointless, it's just luck based, plus now some styles you can exploit the hell out of with like duels which you can just spam and destroy bp as you don't have a chance to pblock, I get it's supposed to be an aggresive style so maybe it could take more bp drain when doing combos, with cyan you can just hold block and swingblock with single hits to build acm and you will stay at 100bp while overpowering the other person.

Just an idea for mblocks, instead of it disarming maybe make it so when you land one it staggers (what flinch does) and makes them vulnerable for a short time until they can block again while also doing 25 or more bp damage, just an idea because people say it feels cheap to lose to an mblock

 

[AaronAaron]

What about the "saber system" in 1.4.3? Will it stay as SPAM TO WIN or will you guys fix it? 1.4.2 was quite cool in my opinion. If you want to freeze it in any state I would opt for 1.4.2.

BELIEVE IN TEMPEST!

 

[andrew]

What? So basically, you have so little situational/map awareness as a jedi/sith that you cannot play the class without a wallhack?

is this your honest opinion? is this what you (and stassin, since he liked the post) actually think is going through peoples heads if they say they dislike nerfs to sense?

theres such a huge disconnect between large parts of the playerbase if thats your honest opinion on why people would be upset by sense nerfs. if you're going to nerf the support jedi playstyle, please add something equally relevant so support jedi dont become "sometimes mobile pillars" that can knock you down if you move near them too quickly

support jedi has been the staple class of mb2 for like 30 years and now people are asking for it to be nerfed because of muh game sense and muh assassination all the while thinking that people who dont want it nerfed are just actual morons who need it as a crutch

 

[Fang]

The sense timers based on a fp/sec system seem a bit harsh. I don't play this class as much for supporting now-a-day but I want to ask what your aim of jedi/sith is because its losing its support function in exchange for?

Also, shouldn't players be sticking to your team and not running around solo if you do not want to get sense 3 solo'd anyway.

 

[Liniyka_xddd]

is this your honest opinion? is this what you (and stassin, since he liked the post) actually think is going through peoples heads if they say they dislike nerfs to sense?

theres such a huge disconnect between large parts of the playerbase if thats your honest opinion on why people would be upset by sense nerfs. if you're going to nerf the support jedi playstyle, please add something equally relevant so support jedi dont become "sometimes mobile pillars" that can knock you down if you move near them too quickly

support jedi has been the staple class of mb2 for like 30 years and now people are asking for it to be nerfed because of muh game sense and muh assassination all the while thinking that people who dont want it nerfed are just actual morons who need it as a crutch

I don't mind if saberists get some new cool features or force powers to fight gunners, as long as it takes some skill to use and can be countered. Sense 3 takes 0 skill and cannot be countered. You press 1 button and see every single enemy on this area of the map. And what can I do against it? Nothing. I just accept the fact that I have been spotted and that's it.

 

[andrew]

I don't mind if saberists get some new cool features or force powers to fight gunners, as long as it takes some skill to use and can be countered. Sense 3 takes 0 skill and cannot be countered. You press 1 button and see every single enemy on this area of the map. And what can I do against it? Nothing. I just accept the fact that I have been spotted and that's it.

thats really a matter of priority, because i personally dont highly value any gameplay that results from stealth tactics in mb2

the problem with sense that ive literally not once seen brought up by stassin or anyone else is the impact it has on objective play on maps that arent dotf. with dotf, sense isnt an issue at all unless you're upset you cant ambush people when sense is used. mb2 map design feels as though its mostly built around sense, with end game objectives being very straightforward.

i would actually agree with sense being an issue if mb2 map design was centered around dual objectives in the way bomb planting is for counter-strike, where you'd actually be actively harming interesting decision making by being able to see how sites were setup and how many people are in each one, and who will be available to rotate as one site is pushed.

as it stands, mb2 maps arent designed that way (instead typically follow a side obj to main obj setup) and entry into objectives is actually made more balanced and interesting with sense being available

ive yet to see any compelling argument put forth by people that want sensed nerf that cant be boiled down to just "stealth"

theres never any discussion of objectives or decision making that sense would impede in mb2 map design. its just "stealth" followed by "wow you need sense to read a map? how about you get some GAME SENSE and stop using that crutch"

 

[Sammy]

Perhaps make it a toogle feature for servers to satisfy the needs of the duel server? Servers who prefer the PB breaker feature can toggle it with a command like cg_blockbreaker 0/1?

This will most likely turn out like nudgetoggle. I consider this unnecessary. It's best to either have it on or off globally, and for now in the current saber direction I think locked combo swings would bring justice to non-combo-breaking pbs if that ever were to be added.

 

[Fang]

But NUDGE is a CLIENT toggle not a server TOGGLE. I'm suggesting server toggling. Theres 0 reason to turn off nudge or you're completely disadvantaged.
The debate for I hate or I love will continue and that was the only compromise I could see honestly.

Nobody will love everything changed sadly so I'm just suggesting it might be time to turn towards CG_commands for constantly debated things like the PB blocker etc...

 

[andrew]

i think nudgetoggle was a mistake and serverside settings for gameplay elements like that would be the biggest mistake mb2s made in a long time

 

[MoonmanMoonman]

Dueling is still slapping the enemy with a flappy noodle and vice-versa considering how nudge is IN and pb combo stop ISN'T.
On top of that sense is garbage now, oh yeah hell yeah.
At least ARC will be more fun, now that i wont have to count every bullet i shoot like a poor man.

 

[Stassin]

is this your honest opinion? is this what you (and stassin, since he liked the post) actually think is going through peoples heads if they say they dislike nerfs to sense?

theres such a huge disconnect between large parts of the playerbase if thats your honest opinion on why people would be upset by sense nerfs. if you're going to nerf the support jedi playstyle, please add something equally relevant so support jedi dont become "sometimes mobile pillars" that can knock you down if you move near them too quickly

support jedi has been the staple class of mb2 for like 30 years and now people are asking for it to be nerfed because of muh game sense and muh assassination all the while thinking that people who dont want it nerfed are just actual morons who need it as a crutch

It is not our "opinion", just a troll/exasperated comment because explaining everything over and over again gets old. Our opinion is that preventing sense from giving positions will promote more diverse strategical gameplay as opposed to each team just knowing where the other is at all times and thus the best general strategy always being to stick together and camp obj (this still leaves room for tactical choices like "where to throw the pulse nade based on enemy positions", "blob + snipe the sith", etc., but the overarching strategy is still and always camp obj). "We" acknowledge that having sense also incites skillful play from jedi since they have to plan ahead based on the info it gives etc. and that's interesting gameplay too, however not having sense incites skillful play as well, differently, and in our opinion better (inability to devise perfect strategies because of the lack of info, but since the info you have is incomplete and differently incomplete every round, you need to anticipate a whole new diversity of possible strategies from the enemy team and explore much more diverse strategy for your team as well). This is not to say that with sense, there can't be strategy, there very well can, like mind games "oh let us show this class in this position here, your jedi is going to see it with sense and plan accordingly, but it's a trap"; but having incomplete information gives a whole new level of possibilities.

And yes, we also want sense nerfed because in more "open"/public mode it gives jedi/sith (and SBD to a lesser degree) an unbelievably high survival capacity compared to any other class which is unfair in terms of "ease of play". It's not that that's bad in itself, deka is easy to play too (balanced but easy to play, you just win easily 1v1 face to face, yet around corners there's suddenly no options and little you can do but run away, it's just a class with less mechanical depth than regular gunner and has to be played more strategically to gain better results), but it is our opinion that it would be better if jedi didn't have that ability, it wouldn't hurt its support role, on the contrary it would make it more interesting, as jedi would now have to be the one in front to dismantle ambushes, and the rest of the support role is unchanged since it has nothing to do with sense but with using force powers, distracting enemies and tanking blaster fire.

Gathering the "incomplete information" that you can without sense is alot harder in terms of gameplay/map awareness than gathering the complete one sense insta-gives you; this is something current gunner classes have to rely on and is a huge layer of skill, jedi also requiring it is a large improvement in the depth of the class with little losses and at the same time opens up a new world of options for gunner classes to play mind games against jedi and vice-versa, since they are no longer stuck in the "jedi knows where gunner is no matter what, gunner doesn't necessarily know where jedi is" scheme.

It doesn't have to be complete removal, but knowing any enemy positions and even the direction they're facing on the whole enlarged minimap minus area portals for 2 pts is basically the same as the class having omniscience for free. And changing FP drains or whatever doesn't fix the problem, sense just must not give enemy positions on demand, it's not even movielike (and seeing enemies glow directly on the map is even less movielike, jedi sense through the force in all directions and not through their eyes highlighting what's in front of them). A mix of ideas from Hexodious and me would already work wonders:

- Level 1: 2 pts, active with some FP cost (20 for placeholder), tells you if there is at least one enemy in the vicinity through a transparent warning sign on the radar. Warning sign size is altered based on number of enemies/their distance to you.
- Level 2: 4 pts, warning sign becomes passive, what's active is now the ability to see rough (not precise and not real-time but static, thus not moving as the enemies move) positions of enemies on the radar (still not the direction they're facing), only if those enemies are "engaged in combat" which is for example whenever they are attacking or using a special ability like jetpack/poison darts..., with a cooldown after the last time they attacked/used an ability like 3 seconds; but still not if they are only moving.
I already don't like this but it still keeps alot of the depth of mind games from both jedi and gunners since people who aren't attacking or using abilities can't have their positions sensed, so it's fine.
- Level 3: 6 pts, everything from level 2 becomes passive, gives reliable dodge against snipers (better than current).
And i'm *not* giving sense 3 the ability to sense positions of enemies even when they aren't attacking, because that immediately kills the depth. It'd be still better than having it for just 2pts like currently, but keeping the depth is just priceless.

 

[Stassin]

And in anticipation of the less interesting comments, let me throw an also-less-interesting comment: this is not coming from a gunner-addict, my best class by far has always been jedi, such that whenever i play it, it feels so easy to almost never get killed and rampage the servers with consistent 10/1 KD even when the level on the server is high, that i just can't help but think something must be wrong. And a good part of what's wrong comes from the survivability sense gives. Also, don't give me "gunners are so strong with flinch and all", no sorry, that is just a symptom of the fact that newer players tend to choose jedi class which leaves a higher ratio of veterans choosing gunners hence the result. When a gunner faces a jedi at same skill level, he is really, really screwed and yes, including wook/SBD though they have more chance (with the sole exception being discharge deka 1v1 which is a never-ending stalemate).

 

[SK5]

Just please do not make any features toggleable, pls.

 

[S o l d i e r]

Guys please make a map in the style of the JK2 map Nar Shaddaa Streets (FFA or CTF version (ffa_ns_streets or ctf_ns_streets)), or adapt it to MB2. These are the maps I'm talking about:

It's the coolest map in JKO mp with the most unique gameplay. It would be really cool for MB2 too.

 

[Crusade010]

And in anticipation of the less interesting comments, let me throw an also-less-interesting comment: this is not coming from a gunner-addict, my best class by far has always been jedi, such that whenever i play it, it feels so easy to almost never get killed and rampage the servers with consistent 10/1 KD even when the level on the server is high, that i just can't help but think something must be wrong. And a good part of what's wrong comes from the survivability sense gives. Also, don't give me "gunners are so strong with flinch and all", no sorry, that is just a symptom of the fact that newer players tend to choose jedi class which leaves a higher ratio of veterans choosing gunners hence the result. When a gunner faces a jedi at same skill level, he is really, really screwed and yes, including wook/SBD though they have more chance (with the sole exception being discharge deka 1v1 which is a never-ending stalemate).

That just aint true, you must be on servers with new people to go through teams, flinch is very unbalanced atm
Also you say wook and sbd have trouble with jedi/sith, anyone who isnt a complete pleb can just brush off jedi/sith with wook and sbd as wooks have strength 3 which is pretty much death touch even when not in rage, sbd can flinch and just spam slap, same with deka, if they have played more than 5 rounds they can just destroy a jedi with pulse although you dont even need it, and no you can use the reduced fp drain because it still only lasts like 5 seconds

 

[SLAP]

I just came here to read the comments.

 

[Lessen]

That just aint true, you must be on servers with new people to go through teams, flinch is very unbalanced atm
Also you say wook and sbd have trouble with jedi/sith, anyone who isnt a complete pleb can just brush off jedi/sith with wook and sbd as wooks have strength 3 which is pretty much death touch even when not in rage, sbd can flinch and just spam slap, same with deka, if they have played more than 5 rounds they can just destroy a jedi with pulse although you dont even need it, and no you can use the reduced fp drain because it still only lasts like 5 seconds

A fully Melee Wook doesn't REALLY have options against a Sith who knows how to crouch. SBD can alternate firing and slapping but if you throw one wrong slap (at a crouched opponent), you lose, and if you try to just flinch it out, you'll probably lose like all gunners seem to lose to people who master block halfswings. Same with Bowcaster wook, I think? But I'm speaking as a long-time gunner main, I'm not that good with sabers.

(in other news, I personally haven't gotten good with block halfswings, so I don't know the full story. I've just gotten rolled over a bunch by people who seem to swing extremely quickly. On that note, Cyan's insta fullswings seem absolutely nauseating from a gunner perspective, and I ought to spend a while playing Cyan Jedi/Sith to see if it's as easymode against gunners as it seems from the gunners perspective.)