Gameplay Direction Post 1.4.3

Discussion in 'Developer Diaries' started by Hexodious, Nov 14, 2016.

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  1. Vongs

    Vongs

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    This. 'nough said in my opinion considering that Stassin further proved that point with his latest dismissive replies.
     
  2. DaloLorn

    DaloLorn Movie Battles II Team Retired

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    And there still are some of yours that I disagree with, but ultimately the difference is in the attitude and the observed results.

    1) That's probably the best you can do without flat out removing the system. I've heard that the underlying numbers are also a bit iffy, but the numerical side of it seems like something that can be corrected later.
    2) Sounds a lot like Force Block. :p The first thing I'm thinking is that I'd reduce the prominence of speed 3 in my builds if that happened (speed lunge is a fairly binary thing in 1.4, especially 1.4.3, and I still have an unusual amount of trouble getting it to actually hurt the people I hit) - the second is that it could be a decent middle ground between those who love flinch and those who hate it.
    3) Caaaan we maybe compromise into having some styles break combos on PBing? ;) (Can't blame me for trying. :p)

    Amusingly, I've actually switched to ammo 2 in favor of stamina 3 already - right now I usually either die too quickly to run out of ammo or have too few opponents to spend ammo on. :oops:

    Sounds like the sort of thing that'd be hard to balance without having either side cry foul. Might be interesting to hear more about it, though; a few interpretations of the second sentence are already forming in my head.
     
  3. Stassin

    Stassin Donator Movie Battles II Team Retired

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    So you mean you can dismiss my lengthy response to you just because i answered Fou on his insulting level ? Wait, you already dismissed it earlier because it was an opinion opposite to yours. Sounds familiar ?

    Gameplay facts are facts, and based on those we are totally open to discussion regarding possible appropriate tweaks to flinch, FP drains, dodge, anything, like Hexodious' OP demonstrates. But removing flinch ? Sure, if you can find a replacement that performs the same function and gives improved feels overall; otherwise no, because it is there for a good reason that many people agree with including many who may not like flinch itself but understand the problem it fixes and want it fixed. Achilles for example doesn't speak of removing flinch but tweaking it.
     
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  4. DaloLorn

    DaloLorn Movie Battles II Team Retired

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    Be the better man. :p

    To be perfectly honest, further back-and-forth of this sort is pointless - that's part of why I made that post yesterday, giving you two different ways in which you could outright finish it (explaining who asked for the changes in 1.4+, or just saying "we don't care, shut up"). You chose neither, instead opting for perpetuating this meaningless waste of energy and nerves as both sides still strongly feel they are in the right and that they have the ability to change the other's mind. (By my estimates, I have lost at least one of those beliefs.)

    By your own words, those of us who are opposed to your changes are doing it because they A: are putting their own selfish interests above all other playstyles and/or B: have a drastically different perspective on the game, to the point that we must be playing completely different games because there is no way in hell the other side's core arguments could be true. (Hence my remark that in your opinion every EU saberist is shit. The conclusion that you play exclusively in the US is a more likely one than the one that I have accidentally never run into you in some of the most populated EU servers out there... unless you don't play a lot anymore.)

    A being A, it can't really be helped on a broader scale - but B does have one solution. If there is truly no other way to win this argument than by hand-holding the other side through an ingame demonstration, then do it. Teach us why we are or aren't wrong; if it works, you instantly get more support. But even if it fails to eliminate opposition, it will at least give them a firmer understanding of things so that they can make more educated suggestions. (Also, on a more selfish note, some of it might rub off in a way that allows pre-1.4.3 performance levels using post-1.4.3 tricks, which has a higher predicted success rate than the alternative solution of 'singlehandedly unlearn and relearn the system'. :p)
     
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  5. Jediknight Fou

    Jediknight Fou

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    Maybe it was a bit insulting, but you shouldnt wonder, the only thing you do is ignoring ppls opinions, defend without much facts or post inappropriate comments.
    The only dev here who is ready for discussion is tempest.
    So many ppl wanted this unbalanced shit of flinch?
    There only few, almost no people who defend it, but ingame i saw many who are already annoyed by this crap.
    Good fine, if you want drive away more people let this unbalanced trash in, but for me it seems no Devsaberist was involved in the creation of this autoprotection, because thats what it is just cheap bullshit.
    If you think about it it prevents you from swinging, does anything prevent a gunner from shooting? Not really.
    Its prevent a saberist from using his saber and encourage forcewhoring since 1.4 and than the only thing which comes to your mind is nerfing forcepowers.
    Now deflect, the best thing which prevents a gunner from facehug you an spam his blaster, gets nerfed too? Ridicoulus and poor.
     
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  6. andrew

    andrew

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    if u mention tempest, he's just going to throw another back handed insult at tempest

    do not let stassin bully tempest!!
     
  7. Liniyka_xddd

    Liniyka_xddd EU Official Server Admin

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    I like how you keep saying "autoprotection", even though that's exactly what saberists have.

    Okay, so you don't like flinch, we get it. I do like it because it encourages some actual thinking on saberist's side (my only gripe is that it makes red useless). If you don't like it, please at least try to provide some alternatives or ways to change it (not just remove it), coupled with reasons WHY it should be changed. Right now you are just throwing general statements like "unbalanced shit", "cheap bullshit" and "this crap".

    And before you start talking about 3 lives, let me say that I don't like Soldier class as well. In my opinion it is too strong for what it is, and needs to be changed in some way or another. But if we talk about 1-life classes, flinch should definitely stay imo.
     
  8. DaloLorn

    DaloLorn Movie Battles II Team Retired

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    Well, there was that alternative heading I proposed, back in the later stages of the 1.4.3 feedback thread (I think). Didn't do much for the 'why' besides 'I think this might be a better solution', but...

    Not. For. SBD. :mad:

    (Some of the others are also questionable, like CR3 - but in its defense there have been changes in that one.)
     
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  9. Tempest

    Tempest coding in Wonderland Movie Battles II Team

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    Should I post stuff about the current state of the saber changes in here (buried so far in this rollercoaster of a thread) or get a fresh start and let this one continue mostly along the lines of saber vs gunner/general changes?
     
  10. DaloLorn

    DaloLorn Movie Battles II Team Retired

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    Probably fresh start.
     
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  11. Jediknight Fou

    Jediknight Fou

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    Yeah the saberist, has to think: where i hide to backstab and which forcepower should i use lightning or push...or maybe pull?
    There is nothing else to think, because you cant do anything against flinch besides forcespamming or just hide.
    Confronting a gunner face to face is pointless suicide, because you cant swing it doesnt matter what you do, if only one blastershot hits you, you get flinched and its over.
    There is no skill on both sides needed just luck and the saberist really needs much of it and this kind of random combat is just crap.
    Yep and red was my favorite style against gunners, farewell red, it seems forever.
    Like i said it encourages forcespamming, before 1.4 i never saw this much forcespamming.
    Many other people, even myself suggested few things months ago (which doesnt involved removing flinch), if they not even get considered/discussed its not our fault.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2016
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  12. SK55555555555555555

    SK55555555555555555 Donator Moderator EU Official Server Admin Internal Beta Team

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    "Lighting"
     
  13. Jediknight Fou

    Jediknight Fou

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    Only for reb side, Jedi have nothing like this.
    And if a sith is close enough to use this its often the gunners fault.
    Since flinch is in mb2 they rushing at saberists and if they get killed with the force, they rage and demand nerf.

    Since 1.4 i always play sith, with push or pull 3 and lightning with at least 2.
    Then i start to hunt the jedis or camp different points to surprise a gunner with lightning so i can easy kill him.
    Its not really rewarding, but better than get easy killed by them.
    There is no diversity anymore, yellow still remains the only real useful style.
    Cyan and purple perks sounded good, but in the end its too expensive.
    You dont have much alternatives anymore.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2016
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  14. DaloLorn

    DaloLorn Movie Battles II Team Retired

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    AAAH! THE LIGHT! *shields eyes*

    ;)
     
  15. GoodOl'Ben

    GoodOl'Ben Nerd Donator Moderator Movie Battles II Team

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    If you have a good write-up in mind, it could be great to put one together elsewhere :D

    Having tried the beta with these changes in. It was a vast step in the right direction for sabering. It's building upon the current implementation while learning from what didn't work. Looking forward to the next patch. The skillcap of Jedi/Sith as well as their potential is much higher than that of 1.4.2 or any other post RC1 patch. It also seemed like the skill floor is slightly lower. This means the entry level will be a bit more challenging, but once mastered, a player has the ability to be formidable.

    This is moving us back towards B17 era meta of using utlizing block as much as possible while keeping the game's balance in check by retaining all the good changes that have evened the playing field (Deflect change from active to passive, damage reduction nerfs, G2 saber traces, flinch).

    The next patch might not get all the numbers just right on the first go, but it definitely is handling well with very known past issues of Jedi/Sith such as having difficulty with staying power and fighting against multiple targets.
     
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  16. Spaghetti

    Spaghetti cable wrangler Donator Movie Battles II Team Retired

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    With that I think this particular discussion has run its course. Currently we are aiming to release the next build sometime before Rogue One is in theaters. Stay tuned.
     
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