Gameplay Direction Post 1.4.3

Gameplay Direction Post 1.4.3​

Hi Guys, I am Hexodious - In the last few weeks I've taken over as Gameplay Lead for Moviebattles II and its occured to me that we've never actually told you where we are headed or why we make specific changes in regards to gameplay. I'd like to use this as an opportunity to change that for us as a team to be more transparent moving forwards as we look to improve the game throughout future patches. This will also allow you to know what we are looking to change, and what kind of feedback we are looking for.

In 1.4.4 we are looking to freeze a solid core for Jedi/Sith in place so we won't have to touch these mechanics for at least a few major patches - This includes: Saber vs Saber, Saber vs Gun and Force Regeneration. I've been looking at a lot of the feedback we've received for 1.4.3 as well as playing a lot of Jedi/Sith in this build and given everyone's experience with 1.4.3, we want to improve on the mechanics that were introduced to make them smoother and a lot more engaging. The goal for Jedi/Sith is to improve their staying power while reducing their ability to retreat while under pressure. 1.4.3's regeneration mechanic did allow this to some extent but was too punishing for players who were trying to support their team.

Below I will break down the core changes we are exploring for 1.4.4.
Please note all of the below is subject to change before release.

FP Regeneration and Drains
Based on 1.4.3's feedback we will be tweaking the FP Regeneration mechanics so that you don't have to worry about holding block, in fact we encourage it.

We will still have 3 states of FP Drain:

• Defenseless (Saber Down/Melee/Idle/Meditate): Base FP Drains for weapons.
• Autoblock (Running): Increased FP Drains for weapons.
• Block: Greatly Decreased FP Drains for weapons.

And there will still be 4 states of FP Regeneration, but we have modified them slightly:

• Meditate:
  • FP Regeneration: Highest, Transition: Ramps up over time, Restrictions: Stationary.
• Defenseless (Saber Down/Melee/Idle):
  • FP Regeneration: Base, Transition: Ramps up over time, Restrictions: Can't Block.
• Defending (Autoblock/Holding Block):
  • FP Regeneration: Slightly lower than base, Transition: Instant.,Restrictions: None.
• Deflecting (Actively Being Shot):
  • FP Regeneration: Greatly lower than base, Transition: Instant Debuff, Duration: 3 seconds (duration can be refreshed each shot, and FP Bar's hue is darkened to indicate debuff is present), Restrictions: Only applies while holding Block.

This combination of drains and states allow us to still have the benefits of really low FP Drains while blocking but doesn't needlessly punish you for holding block while you are not being shot at, whether you are dueling the enemy saberists or supporting your back line. We haven't got the numbers quite in place yet, but after initial testing this feels much smoother and allows the Jedi to have much more freedom while still pushing towards a more active responsibility to manage their FP.



Sense
Sense is a highly debated force power, many would like the power removed completely while others see it as a staple ability that should not be touched. Based on the feedback we've seen we have decided to keep the ability largely similar to how it is, but adjusting how its activated and the durations. In 1.4.4 Sense will tie more into the FP management direction we want to see Jedi's moving towards by using a similar mechanic to Force Speed, another toggled ability but where the duration is solely based on your remaining FP pool.

• Rank 1: Activation Cost: 15FP, Tick Cost: 5FP, 20FP grants you 2s of Sense (equal to the current implementation, but you can have it on for longer if you wish to spend more FP).
• Rank 2: Activation Cost: 10FP, Tick Cost: 5FP, 20FP grants you 3s of Sense (an increase over the current implementation, and you can still choose to have it on longer if you wish to spend more FP).
• Rank 3: Activation Cost: 5FP, Tick Cost: 5FP, 20FP grants you 4s of Sense (a large decrease over the current implementation, but you can still choose to have it on longer if you wish to spend more FP).

These changes allow sense to still be used as an information gathering tool, but encourages smart use of the ability only having it on for as long as you need. Having sense on for a long time while setting up that ambush will leave you starved for FP, greatly increasing the enemy's chance to counter you.


Wall-grab
This ability is a real life-saver while moving around a map and dropping to lower levels, especially on maps like Deathstar. But there are certain players who like to use its ability to hang onto walls forever, often in unreachable locations that cause it to be used in ways we do not intend or to setup lengthy ambushes. As such, the new wall-grab mechanics will actively drain FP slowly while holding onto a wall, automatically drops you upon reaching 0 FP. Also, wall-grab can no longer be used to regenerate FP after bunny hopping.

These changes will still allow the ability to be used as a safe-fall but should prevent poorly planned ambushes. Players will need to better manage their FP pools by choosing the right moment to setup an ambush.


Saber Perks
We've been here before. While Saber vs Saber perks offer a nice diversity between the styles the Saber vs Gun perks adversely change the gameplay dynamics we'd like to see during Saber vs Gun fights. For this reason Saber vs Gun perks won't be included in future builds. Expect refinements to the Saber System and updated Saber vs Saber perks in 1.4.4.


Deflect
This is another ability that greatly benefits from the reduced Block drains and as such we've made some tweaks while updating the mechanics to be less ping dependent. In 1.4.3 Cyan had the ability to deflect by simply holding attack while blocking, this allowed the player to focus entirely on aiming but was too powerful with continuous FP regeneration (even at slow speeds). We liked the quality of life this provided and have applied it to all ranks of deflect (with the Cyan deflect perk being removed). Deflect is in all cases activated by holding attack while blocking and pauses FP regeneration.

• Rank 1: Rapidly Drains FP while held, Cannot be used inside IDR.
• Rank 2: Slowly Drains FP while held, Can be used inside IDR, Cannot be used inside Flinch range.
• Rank 3: Does not Drain FP while held, Can be used inside IDR, Cannot be used inside Flinch range.

Deflecting fits the Jedi fantasy perfectly and gives them a great way to support allies at range beyond push and sense. Now the Jedi must make an active choice to pause their FP regeneration completely in order to reflect shots at the enemy. This still makes Jedi want to wisely time their Deflects as holding it down during a full barrage will quickly deplete your FP pool, but is much more friendly for players of higher ping. We didn't like how in previous builds deflect could be used to facehug someone to death, and while this issue still remains in the form of random deflects, we are able to minimize it greatly.


What about Gunners?

We are mostly happy with the way a lot of the gun classes work. While there are a few things we'd like to look at *cough* SBD *cough* the following are being changed in 1.4.4:

Projectile Rifle
The initial reason behind the Projectile Rifle FP change was to allow Jedi to survive a pop snipe from around a corner, but pop sniping was very fun to do. In reflection of this we've decided to bring back the protection for running Jedi outside of IDR and allow shot-gun snipes to exist vs running Jedi only. A blocking Jedi will be able to protect against a sniper rifle at any range.

• FP Drain Inside IDR while running: Uncapped.
• FP Drain Outside IDR while running: 40.
• FP Drain Inside IDR while blocking <40.

ARC Westar M5
The ammo on this thing has been too low for too long, we heard you. We are increasing the max ammo capacity of the Westar M5 to be inline with other weapons of its type.

• Ammo 1: From 240 > 360.
• Ammo 2: From 360 > 480.
• Ammo 3: From 480 > 600.

This change is very self-explanatory, we feel that ARCs are in a good place at the moment and are very versatile. But the extremely low ammo count was causing too many issues - especially on higher population servers, where the ARC felt like he couldn't provide supporting cover.

Dodge
While the new dodge mechanic does what we want it to, it feels a bit too cumbersome by forcing you into a movement state based on rank and having to hold a button at the same time. We want Dodge to be used to get through chokepoints and suppressed areas, but not to let you tank huge amounts of shots for free. We also thought it was too hard to glance at your Dodge Points while they were being drawn as small numbers and have re-introduced the Dodge Bar.

In all cases, dodge is activated by holding it and has no movement restrictions.It also cannot be used while scoped.

• Rank 1: Cost: A full bar drains over 1 second. Cannot be used up close.
• Rank 2: Cost: A full bar drains over 2 second. Cannot be used up close.
• Rank 3: Cost: A full bar drains over 3 second. Can be used fairly close.

These changes still allow Dodge to be use as a cover breaker while requiring a manual activation to complete. We wanted to keep the current Disruptors(Stationary/Hitscan) vs Projectile(Mobile/Pop-snipe) balance in Sniper vs Sniper engagements but wanted to still provide an alternative option to fight back. Dodge will allow you break the usual corner-play and press the offensive or fallback into cover while you are being shot at. We are still exploring the Hold mechanic over a form of Toggle, similar to what we've introduced for Sense.

Dash
Bringing dodge into a more manual ability was causing conflicts with Dash and Dodge Points. We want players to be able to Dash freely and not to worry about their remaining Dodge Points, at the same time we didn't like the gameplay double dashing in a row would cause skewing balance in the favour of the Hero. Dash has been changed as follows:

• Rank 1:
  • Dashes a short distance in the current movement direction.
  • 2.5s cool-down.
  • Doesn't share a cool-down with Melee moves.
  • Same activation.
  • Unlimited uses.
• Rank 2:
  • Dodges any incoming blasters for the duration of the dash animation.

The cool-down still allows Dash to be used as an intended quick escape or combat positioning tool but prevents double Dashing to escape instances where you may poorly used the ability. At the same time we didn't want to interrupt fun combos such as Dash into Flying Kick, similar to how Blob and Flying Kick function as independent cool-downs.



Final Thoughts

We are excited to get these changes out to you as soon as possible and are committed to continuing progress of the game. The above items are unlikely to change bar number tweaks, but now that we've been able to give you an insight into the direction we are taking we would love to hear back from you on new features, weapons, abilities and mechanics you'd love to see included into Movie Battles II in future builds following 1.4.4.

 

[Blazer]

I like some of the changes in this patch, but I have some suggestions or feedback.

Give dash 2 a reason to use it. Dash 2 is kind of useless because I'd just save my points for some extra armor than one perk for dash2, maybe 0.3-0.5 seconds less cooldown, or a longer distance dash? I'm also thinking about the cooldown thing. As a sith you're charging a dash hero and you would like to have all their dash be drained at some point but now they can keep dashing and dashing forever? Even with a cooldown, 2.5 seconds is not very long.

And also, Dodge.... You guys really need to make it where you can use dodge when you're scoped in, or just change it completely. An idea: Make dodge passive, it auto dodges like old dodge but once you dodge one sniper fire, it cannot do anything until next round. So like a one time use passive ability for dodge?

Also, maybe just a useless or uneeded nerf, but why not make sense3 remove 10-30 fp if you dodge a sniper rifle shot? That'd be cool.

I don't know about the projectile thing, in real starwars wouldn't you think it would take more force to sense where that proj is gonna hit and you'd have to use all your force to know where to block it? So why does it take nor more/less FP up close or far away? I'd like it better if we had shotgun snipes, but not as overpowered, maybe 10 or 15 more FP drain for up close shots.

I hope to see what you do as the new lead Hex!

 

[Blazer]

So FEATURES,WEAPONS,ABILITIES, AND MECHANICS!?
Well lets look at MB2 right now, come on now lets get a brief glimpse to what we have that could be implemented.

Shit right now we got whole lot more things that are currently up in the realms of FA that could honestly change the flow of the game and entice new play styles on how each and everything reacts and works. But avast they're all locked behind FA, a game mode that doesn't see a lot of actual play time outside of occasionally organized by clans or a bunch of people deciding to hope on to FA servers. The problem is the most played FA map just happens to be the DOTF of FA, that being Jedi Temple.

So we all heard the arguments and honestly have waited for years to see some this content ever coming to open, hell cyan and purple were both FA exclusive til recently. Right now people have been asking for swords/batons,grappling hook,medics,and supplies for years and we haven't ever decided to put them into open. THe main reason is that it'll force the rounds to be longer, which honestly it'd be a whole lot more fun when we get to see different classes getting to muck about with a variety of weapons that aren't P3,Proj, or E11.

I did make a post about this on the MEDIC posts. I LOVE FA gadgets and gizmos, but thus they never appear in open.

 

[Blazer]

And I'll leave one more comment for today,

Can the devs do something about the servers? I mean, literally 90% of the time on mb2 the servers are:
DUEL which i do not enjoy, because i like gunners and open.
FULL AUTHENTIC which is cool but again, i like open
DOTF The only open servers that are open are DOTF.
Some servers have regular good old RTV open but thats like 8-9 at night and i always have to go at 9;30

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

The only classes that should get grappling hooks are Arcs and Mando, anything else would be ridiculous. BUT KNOWING THE DEVS, THEY MIGHT JUST GIVE IT TO HERO.

Just give Hero a sword, and push 3 while you're at it.

 

[Lessen]

Swords,disguises,supplies,medics,equipment,shotguns,grappling hook,flamethrower 2,force blind.

Non-lightsaber Melee weapons need a justification to exist. You can't just throw em in. That being said, I support them in my Gungan/MagnaGuard idea above.

Disguises would be gross because they would practically encourage some degree of "spy checking", even in spite of full team damage. It would just be messy and terrible.

Supplies (ammo? Or what?) and Medics both strike me as too much of a fundamental change towards slowing down gameplay. (But speaking of features, while the Last Team Standing, 5 Minute Rounds bit is super fundamental to MB2's identity, it would be a little interesting to experiment with longer-form rounds...... something with "base-building" and healing and stuff..... but it probably wouldn't be worth it, because it would probably split the community, especially if the new mode let you live longer with less effort. It would draw all the bad players. Which would be bad.)

The implementation of non-FA equipment like the turrets and shields and stuff is kind of theoretically cool, but most of the actual stuff in existence right now is kind of messy and gross to me. Like the shield just being this big glimmery obnoxious wall. Open mode has to stay... polished. Also, inventory/items are kind of annoying since they add even more required keys to bind.

Shotguns need a reason to exist. In the times that I've used shotgun in FA, it seems to do massive FP drain and be a huuuuuge Jedi/Sith counter, possibly moreso than any other gun in existence. Can't add that lightly. I also just kind of dislike them for the same vague "messy and gross" reason above. They seem "low quality" but I can't quite explain why.

Grappling hook is a really blatant case of something from FA being gross and messy though. If it were massively cleaned up, it could be sort of cool? But coding an actual nice, non-buggy, non-abusable grappling hook without shitty surreal physics sounds like a huge pain, and I'm not sure it's justified, either. It could be taken in interesting directions though. It could lead to all the tryhards (who I love) becoming hookmasters and flying around the map, or it could be limited so it's a bit slow and vulnerable, so people just use it to get up to high, interesting places.

Is there already a Flamethrower 2 in FA somewhere? I've never seen it. I wouldn't mind there being a stronger flamethrower if it was expensive enough.

Wouldn't mind Force Blind. Or, maybe I would mind a little bit. It's a little obnoxious.

Edit: Regarding vehicles (below), all the vehicles I've ever met in FA have been gross and messy-feeling. But then again, that might just be a matter of people caring less about polishing FA. After all, Deka is a vehicle, and it's only a little gross.

 

[Blazer]

I lied about adding one more comment.
Grapple hooks are cool but lets think OF ALL THE WAYS WE CAN TROLL AND DO THE STUPIDEST CRAP WITH IT LMAO.

DOTF huge gen room - GRAPPLE FROM ONE SIDE TO THE OTHER

Obviously, you can change the range or have it be nerfed, but still it's kinda odd.

The FA stuff is so cool! I would love to see it in OPEN.
One thing you can really do to gamechange this game is vehicles. It's a big step but it can pay off. I love vehicles, and some can be overpowered but they can be fun. It would add lots of fun and encourage ARC Rockets, cool objectives to destroy certain NPC controlled vehicles, bigger maps that make it fun but not troll-assisting.

 

[RG4]

@Odd.

So swords have been a major proponent of being added into open for years, like right behind cyan and purple being styles in open. Both these things were coded and had benefits in the gamemode and were well balanced. Swords for a new class or existing one would allow for different play styles and encourage more diversity because it'll allow for less dependency on Jedi/Sith classes.

Shotguns are a fair point and would need to be extensively tweaked.

All the equipment is criminally underused just because it's not as polished or there isn't a big enough impact in FA to really dictate if it's useful or annoying. Like how people were and still can abuse the ability to instant kata were able to win fights they shouldn't or out play players on the same skill level. Things like the force wall create a temporary hard point and can stop steamrolls like jedi/clone rush down main. The turrets are sloppy but they're balanced in that eweb has a slowly turning radius and the user can be killed directly and the remote and sentry gun both having 1 HP can get destroyed with ease. Right now for me they're bound to one key similar to force powers and they work via the USE KEY.

Grappling hook was a new feature adding in the last few updates that begs the question of. "Why did we code this and not try to implement it into open?"
It's a very fun tool to use because allows for the classes with it to cross gaps they shouldn't or save themselves in a dire need. Such getting pushed off force use and then falling to your death with no way to save yourself. At least if you have it you can counter their pushes. It can actually knock down enemies which is a funny and hilarious accident people found out about. But it ignores death barriers as I've been told so it would need to be tweaked.

Flamethrower 2 is a blue flame that burns twice as fast and more damage then a regular one. Uses more fuel IIRC.
Force blind would be a good addition to Jedi as their answer to something like grip or lightning, it's essentially mind trick 4.

 

[Tempest]

And I'll leave one more comment for today,
Can the devs do something about the servers? I mean, literally 90% of the time on mb2 the servers are:
DUEL which i do not enjoy, because i like gunners and open.
FULL AUTHENTIC which is cool but again, i like open
DOTF The only open servers that are open are DOTF.
Some servers have regular good old RTV open but thats like 8-9 at night and i always have to go at 9;30

Community is free to do what they want with their servers. Open servers being on DOTF constantly is mainly because of people not going to rotation servers or just being unwilling to go elsewhere in general.

I lied about adding one more comment.
One thing you can really do to gamechange this game is vehicles. It's a big step but it can pay off. I love vehicles, and some can be overpowered but they can be fun. It would add lots of fun and encourage ARC Rockets, cool objectives to destroy certain NPC controlled vehicles,

NPC AI makes me cry inside.

bigger maps that make it fun but not troll-assisting.

Asking someone to go to the effort of designing/creating a map like that when most people don't want to leave DOTF is a tall order.

 

[Lessen]

@RG4

It's a little weird to have a sword fighter who can go toe-to-toe with a force user, and Jedi/Sith independence is already sort of accomplished by the existence of heavy counters like Wook/Clone/SBD/BH. That being said, I still stand for Gungans with spears (that can't block sabers) and Magnas with electrostaffs.

(and you can never get FULLY independent from Jedi/Sith because without Push you become vulnerable to grenades.)

Grapple in its present state gives horribly easy knockdowns and a delirious amount of mobility and potential for stalling. It's invulnerable to Push, right? Plus there's a glitch that causes invincibility. Plus, just the way it moves and looks is... janky. The way it just reels you straight in with no regard for gravity. The plain white graphic. The pose. I think, ideally, it would have a nice pendulum swing to it, and you would be able to reel it in or out. So it would be more of a "swinging" kind of thing. It could have a cooldown to prevent high speed swingninjas. I'm imagining that's difficult to code or they would've done it already instead of ever having had the current weird tractor beam effect at all.

I'm fine with equipment if it gets hugely polished, yeah.

Grip and lightning are already countered by working with your team. Blind is annoying because being completely blind is annoying, although the minimap means you can still move wherever you want to, more or less. I'm not totally opposed to it, but I do think that it would lead to... un-fun TKs by panicked blind people.

 

[Stassin]

cyan and purple were both FA exclusive til recently

And they should have stayed that way ! If only some retard (me) hadn't gone and listened to the "community requests to add them to open mode"...


Plz mb2 team:
- More jedi nerfs (sense not giving positions)
- Force speed for sith so i can finally play it
- Grapple hook for ARC so i can feel as safe playing it as with mando & reduce Dex/Pulse nade cost

 

[AgentGibbs]

- More jedi nerfs (sense not giving positions)

If you nerf jedi much more you might as well remove it as a class.

Also I noticed this the last couple of builds and I think I made a comment on it a few times, but jedi / sith sense 3 dodge does not work on mando snipers for sure and I'm not 100% about arc snipers. If it dodges both ruptor and proj it should also dodge both of those.

 

[Penekowski]

These changes look alright to me and I welcome them. I thank you for being transparent with what you're doing. However, give the ARCS some love. Make the Pulse nades a little bit cheaper so that we can have more flexible builds. Increasing the M5 ammo is a great way to move forward with their well deserved buff.

I'd also love to have dexterity one for free, ARCS are all about being agile and versatile for the team. I know that it's not pretty likely though and some devs are against it, but suggesting the idea is always worth a try.

Good job.

 

[andrew]

And they should have stayed that way ! If only some retard (me) hadn't gone and listened to the "community requests to add them to open mode"...


Plz mb2 team:
- More jedi nerfs (sense not giving positions)
- Force speed for sith so i can finally play it
- Grapple hook for ARC so i can feel as safe playing it as with mando & reduce Dex/Pulse nade cost

how can you be so right about cyan/purple but so wrong about the rest of the class :thinking:

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

Cyan/Purple are demonstrably fine as added styles. You don't remove things just because you fucked up in balancing them. Removing them now would be akin to blatant laziness and stupidity. The same goes for anything, don't remove things, balance them, or redistribute them. Proj rifle could be taken from BH/Hero and given to a dedicated sniper class that doesn't have *everything* going for it, as an example.

The failure of the devs are simply their lack of organization and critical thinking.

 

[andrew]

i think getting staff and duals represented in open would have been a lot better than the awful animation styles being thrown in with haphazard balancing

 

[MaceMadunusus]

Plz mb2 team:
- More jedi nerfs (sense not giving positions)

I still want this. No exact position as it only gives periodic position during pulse, doesn't give away class information, animation state, possible weaponry.

 

[----Kas----]

What about the "saber system" in 1.4.3? Will it stay as SPAM TO WIN or will you guys fix it? 1.4.2 was quite cool in my opinion. If you want to freeze it in any state I would opt for 1.4.2.

 

[Crusade010]

The FP regen and drain Ideas I really like, seems fair, I would say for sense that the only thing that needs doing to it is make sense 3 timed so it lasts for 6-10 seconds as it is needed in certain situations

The wall grab nerf wasn't really needed I don't think, it would greatly restrict part the the gameplay as jedi/sith

In terms of deflect, it all sounds good but I don't agree with making it harder for jedi/sith to fallback as they are supposed to be an agile class

Proj rifle ideas are good

Arc ammo was long time needed and will make appo happy lol

It would be really nice to see deka, wook and sbd nerfed in certain aspects though as they are ridiculously easy to play and can just tear through teams

 

[andrew]

What about the "saber system" in 1.4.3? Will it stay as SPAM TO WIN or will you guys fix it? 1.4.2 was quite cool in my opinion. If you want to freeze it in any state I would opt for 1.4.2.

spamming in this update just turns duels into a race to the bottom

 

[----Kas----]

By fixing it, I mean bringing back the pb combo breaker which allowed to actually use the skill and be able to fight 1 vs 2+ (saber vs saber). Now any new guy who has no clue about the game is as dangerous as more experienced players, especially in open mode. To me: no combo breaker = no fun, no skill required, not many options to deal with enemy saberist, punishing people who play defensively etc. There is no point in writing more as those who can actually duel will understand my point.