Fixing wookiee

[Gargos]

I've been playing wookiee for a couple times now and I can't help but notice couple things that should definitely be fixd:

1. Wookiee getting collide knockd down with strength lvl 2: I got knockd down today by having a gunner pushed into me. Usually a push does nothing but move me but collide makes me fall down. I think this definitely shouldnt be here.

2. Nades eating 400 hp: Thats right, when using strength 2 and nade hits you at the right time, you can lose 400 hp. First explosive dmg and then the flight into a wall, this collision for some reason happens quite often as a wook but not as other gunners.

Referring to 1 and 2, I think collision effect should be removed from wookiee, at least from strength lvl 2.

3. Ammo levels: Ammo lvl 3 is useless, no1 will pay that many points for it. Right now lvl 1 ammo gives 300 and lvl 2 450 for the caster. I would change it that wookiee only has 2 different levels for ammonation, giving lvl 1 350 and lvl 2 500.

I am sure there could be other tweaks needed for this class, but in my opinion these 3 are unquestionably in need for fix.

 

[MaceMadunusus]

the damage reduction should be taken away entirely

Then you have to take the passive damage reduction away from jedi as well, because it is there for the same reasons and more. If you take away the passive damage reduction you also have to give them full movement control.

The problem with rage was never in the damage reduction, nor was it ever in punch damage.

 

[Mr_Oujamaflip]

I think that would be overkill on Fury, Qwerty. Keep it as it is but set a really short time limit so it's used to clear out choke-points rather than just going ham on 5 people. Red still wrecks it so the right people in the right time can deal with them. Give it a 5 second timer before it runs out and then it completely empties the meter.

 

[Vitéz]

I have to say your problems are played based problems, @Gargos, not class based ones. If you feel you cant play the Wookiee class with Strength 2, just get lvl3. You should be aware of the risks what using lvl2 Strength has, and you shouldnt complain if you're beaten by grenades or certain Force abilities.

About the ammo problem: Almost all weapon has too much base ammo, and its totally unnecessary to get lvl3, even lvl2 in some cases; Pistol is the only exception. Just because you dont want to spend points on ammo, the skill shouldnt be redesigned to give more ammo on lvl1 for free. IMO base ammo should be reduced on almost all weapons, and the cost of lvl3 ammo should be reduced from 6 to 4.

For the others: I doubt Wookiee needs other weapons... it'd be either unauthentic or simply unnecessary. And complaining about rage is totally pointless, its obvious that its very OP in a face to face, 1 v 1 battle. But this is a team based game mode, and activating Rage has a sound effect, so a good team can prepare, and basically nuke the Raging Wookiee before it'd make serious damage to the team. No to mention that Sith can jump up to objects, Mandalorian can fly away and the Droideka is also capable to run away. I'm not sure if Cortosis has melee damage reduction as well or not, but if it isnt, it may could be a good addition to the skill. BH's Poison Dart may could be buffed, so using it on Wook would prevent activating Rage, just like it prevents the Force regeneration on Jedi/Sith. Soldier and Commander has Reinforcements, so they're good.

 

[Gargos]

I have to say your problems are played based problems, @Gargos, not class based ones. If you feel you cant play the Wookiee class with Strength 2, just get lvl3. You should be aware of the risks what using lvl2 Strength has, and you shouldnt complain if you're beaten by grenades or certain Force abilities

I go dotf main. A frag nade flies. I am too slow to get away. No worries, I am 400 hp, I can tank it. I may get knockd down, but I will be fine. Thats why I bought a lot hp so I can take more dmg than other classes. Boom. Oh I flew into a wall and lost all 400 hp. Guess I am bad at this class, damn. Guess strength 3 is the only way to play this, what a variety. But I want lvl 3 hp too, damn even less variety.

Also lvl 2 strength already PROTECTS me from push/pull knockdown. Then why on earth a teammate that is pushed towards me rewards the sith with me getting knockd down too? It makes no sense. Youre saying wook should always buy very expensive strength lvl 3 or not play it at all.

regarding ammo: yes some other classes too have this problem and it is very off leading for newbies. They may use points on stuff that is useless. Why have completely useless abilities in the first place? The new ammonition amounts I came up are just stuff ive observed, it is quite easy to run out of ammo with caster. The buff on ammo amount isnt necessary, but it sure is annoying if you have to limit the usage of your main gun. That is not fun game play, especially when you cant even get extra ammo anywhere durin the round.

 

[Vitéz]

If you suffer falling damage after an explosion, it means you basically stood on the grenade when it exploded. As I said, this is not a class problem. I play Wook with lvl2 Strength and I dont have any problem like this, because the Wook is fast enough to get move away from the grenade, so only suffers a little damage and knockdown, while the Wook has the getup speed of an ET.

About the difference between the Push/Pull knockdown and the grenade knockdown... I suggest to not search for reasons or any Star Wars logic, what could answer your question. This is a pure balancing feature. If the Droideka wouldnt be a vehicle with full knockdown immunity, Wooks wouldnt have this feature at all. The whole Force immunity for Wooks doesnt make any sense in the first place, but balance > logic [this is my subjective opinion].

The "useless" ability question goes for a lot of abilities. My problem is that lvl1 Ammo is a free ability, what gives enough ammo for the whole round, if the player doesnt waste bullets. This is obviously unfair. Pistol lvl3 with lvl1 Ammo is great, because you get a very few ammo, what obviously not enough if you want to fight in the whole round. Lvl3 Ammo gives enough ammo to fight in the whole round. But for other weapons, lvl1 usually gives enough ammo for the whole round, especially for classes with Reinforcements or with more main weapons. This is something what should be changed. This is why I dont support the idea to rise the free lvl1 ammo for Bowcaster from 300 to 350. If you wish to use more ammo, you're free to get it.

 

[Gargos]

Actually yesterday I was next to a nade and yet I lost all my hp. And wook definitely doesnt have the speed with strength 2 to avoid nades easily, it is even slower than sold. Other classes have speed to avoid but not the hp, wook has neither if not usin strength 3. And if you read what I typed, I wasn't talking about fall dmg, I am talking about collision dmg. Ive noted that this hardly ever happens to any other class except wook (most likely because other classes would usually die to such explosion) but 400 hp should give you the ability to survive that.

All I am sayin is that there is 99 percent chance no1 thought about collision knockdown due to teammate bein pushd by sith into a wook when making strength 2 (especially when collision is newer feature). Thats why Id call it unforeseen effect which should be fixed. It is simply unfair for sith to be able to knock me down to the floor by using a careless teammate when otherwise I am force immune to knock downs. It is rare but a fairly big nuisance when it happens and throws off he balance of the game. I simply shouldnt have to be worried about bein knockd down by a sith when I have an ability that is supposed to counter it.

 

[Vitéz]

Indeed I talked about the falling damage, but suffering collision damage also requires you to stand on the grenade or at least very close to it, otherwise the grenade wont make you crash into a wall or something. Wook is slow, but its possible to move away from a grenade.

This is a team based game mode, its also the job of the players to play with the team... even if it means to stay away from them because they're more dangerous to you than the enemies are, or changing your build to get Strength lvl3. This is not different from the situation when a careless BH throws a TD into the Jedi spam, who're manage to push it back, killing the half of the imperial team... its also "unfair" to the imperial team, but this is a player based problem. Giving a collison damage immunity to anyone would be simply... unrealistic. I understand your frustration because of the careless team mates, but this is also part of this mod.

 

[Crusader]

I don't think you should be able to secnade outplay a wookiee.

 

[Gargos]

Only way you can get away from a nade as slow wook is jump and roll. Problem is jump enhanches your flight when the nade blows. There isnt much you can do and it is simply dumb to die to a regular nade like that when youre full hp. It discourages the use of the class and encourages to limit your class options. If strength 3 is the only option why not make it the only one.

It is stupid to explain every flaw in the game with the fact that this is a team based game. It is simply an unfair advantage that the sith has when I bought strength 2 precisely to protect me from push knock down. Also wook already has immunity from collision dmg when strength lvl 3, the whole damn feature didnt even exist until rc3 or so. And werent you talkin about balance>logic but this would be unrealistic?

 

[NERO]

Why not have damage the wookiee takes during rage reduce the bar a bit? So that rage is actually useful, but if you have 400 HP, full rage and go batshit on a bunch of people, you can actually be stopped with something other than headshots before you kill an entire team.

Or, you just have that one sith there who only has to press C and do a two-hit yellow combo.

 

[Phelps]

I don't think any of the Gargos' ideas in OP are buffs. They are tweaks. From his description, I find them to be broken and they need to be fixed.

 

[Vitéz]

@Gargos You just simply propose a buff what compensates some player's lack of skills, even if its the lack of skills of your team mates. But its your decision to choose which abilities are fitting best on the current match, so its your job to decide, is Strength lvl2 enough for you at the moment, or not. This is something what noobs cant understand. As far as I know you are not a noob Gargos, so please dont make me explain how big impact the proper build choosing has, because I'm sure you know it. This is one of the reasons why isnt stupid to explain stuffs with the fact that this is a team based game mode: you have to know the strengths and weaknesesses of your own, your team mates, and the enemy as well to bring a good decision. So if your team is a dumbass, and you have to choose Strength lvl3 because of this, its not because there's a flaw in lvl2, but the lack of skills of your team mates.

@Phelps Giving Strength lvl2 a collision damage immunity is clearly a buff. We can call it a tweak of course, but it still remains a buff. Strength lvl2 gives you Push/Pull knockdown immunity, nothing more. It means lvl2 has nothing to do with grenades, so it isnt broken, so there is no problem to fix.

 

[Gargos]

Vitez, when was the last time you played a game when the imp team didnt use sith?

The collision dmg is simply absurd against a wookiee. There is no reasonable excuse for a wookiee to die to a nade + collision dmg with 400 hp, no matter the strength lvl.

 

[Vitéz]

There's also no reasonable excuse to give Strength a collision damage immunity. If the Sith can push back a grenade, why cant your Jedi do the very same? Again: team based game mode. Of course this is unfair for those who didnt do anything wrong, but again: its also unfair if the half imperial team dies because of a pushed back TD, or the half of the rebel team dies because of a pushed back rocket. Players die because of a team mate was careless, and because of an enemy did a good job to exploit this mistake. Its part of the game.

 

[Gargos]

There's also no reasonable excuse to give Strength a collision damage immunity. If the Sith can push back a grenade, why cant your Jedi do the very same? Again: team based game mode. Of course this is unfair for those who didnt do anything wrong, but again: its also unfair if the half imperial team dies because of a pushed back TD, or the half of the rebel team dies because of a pushed back rocket. Players die because of a team mate was careless, and because of an enemy did a good job to exploit this mistake. Its part of the game.

This didnt rly answer anything when referring to my last post, you just repeated your point without reading what ive said earlier.

As I already said, wookiee has collision immunity as strength 3.

 

[Vitéz]

I didnt answer your question about when I played without having a Sith as an enemy, because it has nothing to do with this topic. And yes, I used your words to show you that while you're saying you think there's "no reasonable excuse" for a wook to die because of this, there's also "no reasonable excuse" for giving a buff like this to Strength lvl2. Again: lvl2 has nothing to do with grenades, it only gives immunity to Push/Pull knockdown. If you think you need a protection against grenades, choose lvl3. Please understand that.

 

[Gargos]

I just find it rather funny that wookiee with strength 2 which is stronger in durability abilities than your average class is more vulnerable against nades than your average class. I expect my 400 HP to protect me from at least 1 nade as long as I dont fall down a pit. It is unreasonable to always have to get strength 3

And no, my point about sith was not off topic, it referred to your point choosing my build right. There is always danger to that collision knock down by push while sith is there, so according to you I should always use strength 3 to avoid this unreasonable exploit, makin any other choice useless.

 

[Crusader]

I think Gargos is coming more from the angle that wookiees being prey for the domino effect is probably not an intended feature and was left in/not looked at upon its implementation. Strength 2 is not a skill related pick like Saber Def. 3 -> 2. is: you pick strength 2 if you want to do something other than the bog standard wookieecutter build. There's no coming of age where you decide you're ready for the str2 hype. The collision damage immunity should really come in the form of not being knocked down at all. Strength 2 is readily exploited by secnade, which is silly in principle considering the wookiee is supposed to be healthy, but isn't particularly tanky in the first place and now it can be CC'd like piss. I would tweak strength in that sense. It's a weird one, in that if you take any build other than default you can't really preform your roll particularly well (not considering melee wook), whereas other classes have a considerable amount of variety.

Ammo scales with server population, so that is always hard to balance. Telling a class like wookiee to buy more ammo is a bit silly (because they can't). Unless you go for the: ''yea hahah sure mate let me just play with caster 1 instead"; "yea hahaha sure mate let me just play with strength 2 then"; "yea haha sure mate let me just play with health 2". Wookiee is locked into a very rigid point configuration and any deviation from that makes it under preform in areas where it should be doing well.

Aside from maximising synergy, what points you invest in is usually quite a selfish task. I've never thought to myself ''Well, my team is pretty bad so I'm going to buy armour 3 just in case they teamkill me a bit." You buy armour 3 to be durable, nothing else.

 

[Dra-Gon]

Tbh the wiki does state that wookiee strength 2 gives immunity to force push and pull knockdown - nothing else, so collision knockdowns do make sense. On the other hand what garg writes does make sense regarding strength 2 preventing wookiee from getting knocked down when someone/something collides with him and right now seeing how push and pull are easily spammed, giving wookiee the immunity to collision with pushed teammates seems good to me.
I think this should be tested. This won't require any hardcore implementation imo, as it's most likely just a flag change. This way you can test it and see if it is a huge buff or not.

Also, I don't think grenade + collision should kill 400hp wookiee. That really doesn't make sense in any way and completely nullifies any reason to take Strength 2 instead of level 3. No ability/skill/weapon in MBII should be mandatory.

Buffing ammo is no option either. I have never had problem with ammo on wook as long as I didn't use it as a suppression weapon (in the way clone rifle is) and buffing ammo means more ammo for charged shots. Those shots are OP (I got killed by charged shot as a 100/80 BH) so having the disadvantage of having low ammo for them is balancing them out.

Rage should be somewhat changed. The ability is cool and useful, but it shouldn't dominate the game, which is what happens now. Maybe make Rage points decrease slightly for each attack you land while fury is active - You basically beat out of rage (I mean when I am furious IRL and I smash something I feel a bit calmer, as I relieve the rage). The ability would be still as cool as ever, however there would be a "fixed" maximum of attacks you can land. Of course leaving rage points to gradually perish while fury is active should stay as well, to force the wook in action.

I also agree with what Mr_Ouja wrote - wooks need agility. What happened to the old Wookiee Agility ability that was shown few years back but never made it to release?

 

[TwiceDead]

The only thing I want to see is a lowered projectile speed on the bowcaster (except for charged shots). Makes no sense why this rapid-firing weapon should have a shorter time to hit it's mark compared to other weapons with rapid-fire capability. The winguns don't have that kind of projectile speed, and they have about the same fire-rate (if you don't count burst-fire).