Your 5 changes to sabering

[noel]

If you could make 5 changes to sabering what would they be and why?

Here are mine:

​

1. Bring styles closer together in speed. Make red a bit faster. Purple is probably fine because of yaw. Yellow is fine. Cyan is probably borderline okay too. Blue a bit slower.

2. Make running less OP. Flat high BP drain on swings whilst running so that people don't play like a pussy/pbing is actually used instead of dodging. Atm you might as well dodge because the chance of you dodging = higher than you pbing, resulting in duels which don't fit up to the name 'Moviebattles'. One person runs in does a combo and runs out, then the other person does it, its like Runescape combat.

3. Bring back semi pb. Would make parry spamming less effective etc.

4. Make swingblock less difficult. This would nullify the power slap -> 4 hit -> repeat has. At the minute its very easy to get mblocked/slapped because your opponent can mblock/slap before your swingblock registers/you can input it quick enough. Make a safe zone just before/after a swing of maybe 0.5 seconds so that swingblocking is more manageable.

5. Make yellow the baseline style. This is a big one, but basically balance everything out to fit with yellow and they should fit with eachother decently too:
Blue halfswinging is broken because of the interrupts it causes, damage is too high and the perk is pretty strong too.
Cyan is very easily spammable, random perfect parries are irritating, hard to pb and mb because of its speed so damage should be lower.
Purple's perk is OP, especially with how valuable ACM, removing/nerfing its perk would make it balance well.
Staff animations are hard to see, very effective at meaningless spam because of its speed. Speed + power + unclear animations = too strong.
Yellow v yellow combat is and has been the most fun for a long time so yellow is fine.
Dualies are fine imo, at least against yellow they balance well.
Red balances nicely with yellow, a slight speed increase would make it perfect.

I know this is another thread talking about sabering but I kind of want to see if I share the same ideas as other people in the community/whether theres a majority who want something or whether we're split.​

 

[RC-Delta]

Remove lightsabers and add super intricate force powers that can manipulate even time and reverse everyone by seconds, also add in godly other shit.
It sounds balanced. What should be added in? Idk, I'm not the super cool dev.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

1) Increase BP damage of all styles

2) Remove ACM

3) Add chase mechanic

4) Swingblock prevents continuing a combo (But allows half swing)

5) Slap CD is increased to 6 seconds, and failing an mblock causes a stagger.

 

[Stassin]

Just gonna say a few words, SeV & i have discussed some ideas to simplify & improve the current system (including some things like reintroducing semi-PB, removing artificial (non-visible) perks, increasing BP damage, changing ACM to be more like how it was in v0 (kicking in much later), but unfortunately i just have 0 time right now to implement & test stuff with him. More to come, dunno when.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

No semi-pb, perks are fine as long as they are balanced and well explained, ACM should be removed with the addition of a chase mechanic and high BP damage (It becomes unnecessary with those two things in).

 

[eezstreet]

What do you mean by "chase mechanic" exactly? Otherwise I basically agree entirely with your point.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

In my manifesto (or compendium, I think it was compendium), I state that a chase mechanic could be utilized with an infinite range version of force focus, where the chasing player gradually gains speed as he looks at the target, also reducing jump height.

 

[Hexodious]

I'd like some form of chase mechanic as well. Either as a very small movement increase while focusing on someone like suggested above. Or a very small movement decrease when low bp, like -1% movement speed per 10% missing BP.

At the moment its get pull and force focus or qq.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

Lower movement speed while low on BP would be an issue in open mode, I think.

 

[GoodOl'Ben]

Lower movement speed while low on BP would be an issue in open mode, I think.

It's a minor nerf, but it's maybe even nice that it's there. It makes 0 BP players at a deficit even vs gunners.

 

[Rosh+]

In my manifesto (or compendium, I think it was compendium), I state that a chase mechanic could be utilized with an infinite range version of force focus, where the chasing player gradually gains speed as he looks at the target, also reducing jump height.

not against forcewhores tho pls noe

my entire forcewhore playstyle vs jedi with my fists and force is to run and wait for openings to melee/focuslightningpush without running ill have to camp corners and that is no gooooooooood

Spoiler

edit - post to like ratio balanced ayyyyyyyy

edit - fuck

 

[takuta pls]

It's a minor nerf, but it's maybe even nice that it's there. It makes 0 BP players at a deficit even vs gunners.

and what about the fws with no regenerating bp?

 

[StarWarsGeek]

and what about the fws with no regenerating bp?

Could make BP movement penalty only apply with saber out (or on). Swap to melee (or turn saber off) for regular run speed. Adds some risk/reward trade-off, lower defenses for a chance to get away. If you require swapping to melee, the runner can't try to tap block to avoid a force focused push/pull.

I think any kind of chase mechanic could have some negative effects on open mode. Out of the two options, I think tying run speed to BP would be better for open. It would be really silly and probably easily abusable to be able to run faster simply by looking at an enemy. You could use it for unintended purposes to gain an advantage on people you weren't even dueling. For example: chasing a sith running away near gunners in order to gain ground on the gunners faster than you should be able to.

EDIT: Actually, after some more thought, the BP movement penalty might even be good for open mode. Allows for more cooperation between saberist and gunner teammates. Gunners can already lower enemy FP so the allied saberist can use force powers, but the saberist can't really directly help the gunner by dueling. Currently they can only keep the enemy preoccupied or use force once the gunner has already lowered the enemy's FP. This would allow the saberist's dueling skill to be a direct help to allied gunners.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

It's a minor nerf, but it's maybe even nice that it's there. It makes 0 BP players at a deficit even vs gunners.

You have enough cooperation with sabers and gunners by way of force powers and blocking. You do not need any more, the idea of BP slowing movement speed is an inordinate problem to handling multiple saberists as well as limiting any and all ability to maneuver during a fight with low BP (Which is necessary even in 1v1s).

A chase mechanic is perfectly fine and gives initiative to the victor of a fight, not punishing someone who has to fight 3 Jedi AND a group of gunners. It works demonstrably fine in Chivalry and would be fine in MB2.

not against forcewhores tho pls noe

my entire forcewhore playstyle vs jedi with my fists and force is to run and wait for openings to melee/focuslightningpush without running ill have to camp corners and that is no gooooooooood

My compendium has changes that would benefit force whores heavily.

 

[Hellion]

I'm a hypocrite for saying this considering I starting instinctively using mblock. It ruins the duel and allows me or any other proficient user to mow through most attackers just by a quick disarm and a side slash. The one thing it does teach you is how to be more unorthodox with slower styles like red but if you're starting off your combo with an A, D or just a W or S swing, then that was the last swing you made before you died to the mblocker. I think the system should just remove disarm and utilize it as an alternative way to block, say you're in a combo and finish while your opponent starts up his or hers and you do not have time to look up and pblock it with your cursor but you can mblock it rather, but it would not disarm. I think using the mblock system takes a bit of skill and quick reflexes and could possibly be used as maybe some other method against blasters or such. Another quick thing is that it also increases the gap greatly between the skilled and the beginner. I was able to take on three Jedi by myself because I could just disarm every single one as they had just started playing for about a month or so ago. In conclusion I think it needs to either go, or be utilized differently OR just get rid of disarm.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

Disarm is useful. The counter swing off of Mblock is cancer. Before the swing off of mblock was instant, you would *never* kill a good player with a disarm, because they could simply react to it and dodge. Now, a random mblock can kill someone because the swing is instant.

 

[AaronAaron]

Spoiler: best mb2 saber system

Version 1.4.5 Open Beta Changelog
Spaghetti said:
This open beta is focused on testing the saber system. Servers will be kept available until the end of the 22nd. See next post for installation instructions and where to post gameplay feedback (Hint: Not in this thread).

• Change: Sense now has a short buffer after being deactivated so that it doesn't get activated again by accident as easily once it's turned off.
  
• Change: Nudge removed from all styles
• Change: Global BP damage modifier raised from 1.2x to 1.4x
  
• Change: Semi-PB removed pending further changes.
• Change: ACM threshhold doubled. Multipliers adjusted accordingly (so the ratio of ACM:multiplier is still the same).
• Change: Slap now causes small knockback even when hitting someone that's blocking
• Fix: Attacks that cause special effects (i.e. staggers, knockbacks, etc) can now trigger the effects on multiple targets instead of just applying to the first one hit
  
• Change: Parrying with no BP will cause you to drop your saber
• Change: Force Repulse is now disabled in Duel mode
• Fix: Using Force Repulse from the ground no longer causes you to get stuck in weird leg animation loops.
• Fix/Change: Can no longer start taunt/gloat/flourish/etc animations while holding block/reload with a saber.
• Fix: Doing specific input combinations with weapon swapping no longer allows for instant attacks
  
• Fix: Spectator camera should no longer go partially into terrain
• Fix: Several (hopefully most) recurring sources of class/join bugs should now be fixed.
  
• Updated: Small tweaks to the BP counter in Duel mode aimed at providing a more accurate measurement of the killer's BP
  
• Updated: Swing damage adjustments
  • First/full swings: 1.0x, +3 ACM on body hit (if not a counter)
    
  • Consecutive swings: 0.90x, +1 ACM on body hit
    
  • Half swings: 0.75x, +2 ACM on body hit
• Change: BP Regen increased
  • Level 1: Increased from 3 to 4 per tick
  • Level 2: Increased from 5 to 6 per tick
• Updated: BP drain for attacks moved from being based on button inputs (holding vs tapping) to being flat drains based on style:
  • Blue drains 5 BP per swing.
  • Cyan drains 5 BP per swing.
  • Yellow drains 6 BP per swing.
  • Staff drains 6 BP per swing.
  • Duals drain 7 BP per swing.
  • Purple drains 7 BP per swing
  • Red drains 8 BP per swing.
  • Not swingblocking during the attack will drain an additional 2 BP
• New: Special moves now cost BP to activate. If you have less than the cost for activating, then you won't be able to use them.
  • Blue Lunge: 10
  • Blue Backstab: 10
  • Staff Backstab: 10
  • Backslash: 10
  • Crouched Backslash: 20
  • Cyan DFA: 10
  • Yellow DFA: 15
  • Red DFA: 15
  • Rollstab: 10
  • Dual Butterfly: 10
  • Staff Forward Butterfly: 15
  • Staff Backflip: 5
  • Staff Left Butterfly: 10
  • Staff Right Butterfly: 10
  • Dual Crouch Kata: 15
  • Staff Crouch Kata: 15
  • Downstab (Single): 5
  • Downstab (Duals): 5
  • Downstab (Staff): 5
  • Duals Front/Back Stabs: 12
  • Duals Side Stabs: 12
  • Purple Crouch Kata: 15
• Change: FP drains for special moves have been adjusted:
  • Blue Lunge: Reduced from 35 to 20
  • Purple Crouch Kata: Reduced from 45 to 30
• New: BP related staggers.
  • Reaching a low threshhold of BP (currently 10) will cause you to do a short stagger when body hit.
  • Threshhold increases by 1 per ACM of attacker
  • Threshhold decreases by 1 per ACM of defender
  • Defending with Blue halves the attacker's ACM threshhold bonus
  • Attacking with Blue halves the attacker's ACM threshhold bonus
  • Stronger stances cause longer staggers
• New: All combo breaks have visual indication in the form of staggers/flinches. Durations of the animations vary depending on the source.
  
• Change: Animation/chaining adjustments.
  • No more instant/teleporting consecutive swings
  • Repeated consecutives can no longer be done. However, trying to do the same consecutive swings twice in a row will still allow you to do a halfswing from the same direction or start a consecutive swing from another direction (no self combo breaking when trying to do repeated consecutives).
    
  • PB counter is no longer instant by default (still retains bonus damage to body hits as well as doubling base parry drains).
    
  • Rate of swing chaining has been adjusted for each style.

Styles:

• Blue
  • Swing count of 2
  • Offense Rating: Decreased by 50%
    
  • Defense Rating: Increased by 5%
    
  • Drains (9 base + 1 per 2 ACM) BP on PB - Can trigger BP related staggers
    
  • 20% ACM bonus on specials
  • Loses 3 ACM when body hit
  • Has fast PB counter swings
• Cyan
  • Swing count of 4
  • Offense Rating: Decreased by 22%
    
  • Defense Rating: Decreased by 5%
    
  • All swings can combo break on Perfect Parry
  • Reduces 33% of ACM bonus to parries from opponents
  • 75% damage on consecutive swings
    
  • Loses 4 ACM when body hit
• Yellow
  • Offense Rating: Decreased by 8%.
  • Defense Rating: Unchanged
    
  • Swing count of 4
  • No BP drain for failing Mblock
  • Increases 33% of the ACM bonus to parries to opponents
    
  • Drains 4 ACM on a PB counter body hit
• White
  • Swing count of 4
  • Offense Rating: Decreased by 18%
    
  • Defense Rating: Decreased by 3%
    
  • Successful Mblock no longer automatically counts as a PB by default
  • Mblock related staggers are buffed compared to other styles
    
  • Mblock Vs Swingblock
    • Gain 3 ACM
    • Drain 3 ACM
  • Large block radius.
• Green
  • Offense Rating: Decreased by 10%
    
  • Defense Rating: Unchanged
    
  • Swing count of 5
  • All swings 0.75x damage without ACM
    
  • Special moves have 50% of their ACM multiplier added into their damage
  • Loses 4 ACM on body hit
• Red
  • Swing count of 3
  • Offense Rating: Decreased by 13%
    
  • Defense Rating: Decreased by 2%
    
  • All non-halfswings cause a stagger. Consecutive staggers have reduced durations.
    
  • Being PB counter body hit drains 2 ACM
    
  • Doesn't lose BP when Mblocked on swingblocks
• Purple
  • Swing count of 3
  • Offense Rating: Decreased by 15%
    
  • Defense Rating: Unchanged
    
  • Deals (6 + 1 per ACM) BP through PB - Can trigger BP related staggers
    
  • Being PB counter body hit drains 3 ACM

Raw offense and defense values for the styles for those that care or that are interested:
1.4.4 (public/live):
Offense ratings from highest to lowest: Red (15), Purple (13), Yellow (12), Staff (11), Duals (10), Cyan (9), Blue (8)
Defense ratings from highest to lowest: Blue (60), Staff (59), Cyan (58), Yellow (56), Duals (54), Purple (52), Red (50)
1.4.5 open beta:
Offense ratings from highest to lowest: Red (13), Purple (11), Yellow (11), Staff (9), Duals (9), Cyan (7), Blue (4)
Defense ratings from highest to lowest: Blue (63), Staff (57), Yellow (56), Duals (55), Cyan (53), Purple (52), Red (49)


Changelog Legend
New - New feature or addition to the game.
Change - Changes to the game.
Fix - Bug fix.
Remove - Removed feature.
Feature - New feature name

 

[noel]

I'm a hypocrite for saying this considering I starting instinctively using mblock. It ruins the duel and allows me or any other proficient user to mow through most attackers just by a quick disarm and a side slash. The one thing it does teach you is how to be more unorthodox with slower styles like red but if you're starting off your combo with an A, D or just a W or S swing, then that was the last swing you made before you died to the mblocker. I think the system should just remove disarm and utilize it as an alternative way to block, say you're in a combo and finish while your opponent starts up his or hers and you do not have time to look up and pblock it with your cursor but you can mblock it rather, but it would not disarm. I think using the mblock system takes a bit of skill and quick reflexes and could possibly be used as maybe some other method against blasters or such. Another quick thing is that it also increases the gap greatly between the skilled and the beginner. I was able to take on three Jedi by myself because I could just disarm every single one as they had just started playing for about a month or so ago. In conclusion I think it needs to either go, or be utilized differently OR just get rid of disarm.

its so easily counterable though, if they made having good swingblock less unrealistic then it wouldn't be a problem. Atm if you're even a millisecond too late you can get mblocked, which unless you're a robot or @CheekiBreeki you're fucked

making swingblock less hard would mean mb wouldn't need to be removed or nerfed as it would be even harder to execute properly and would only happen when your opponent did a really open swing whilst running or had hurrendously bad swingblock

 

[Hessu]

just commenting so i can toggle off this email notification thing

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

Aaron must be having a severe mental lapse to consider 1.4.5 anything but god awful. It was literally just PB counter spam.

 

[redeyejedi]

1. Remove BP for sabering and use the meter for blocking gunfire only; force is separate used for force powers but only regens during combat and you get some for killing an enemy

2. Remove swingblock. Introduce a directional based saber system. Similar to base; you attack a frontal open spot of your enemy during their swing then you kill them

3. Blocking other sabers is done by simply holding right click as usual, but now runs on a system like reverse ACM - the more you block without attacking back the dimmer your light saber icon gets; whenever it gets too dim you're prone to disarms or drop your saber. On the flip side if you spam attacks on a blocking opponent you get no combat multiplier, but you know you're still working to beating the saber out of their hands but opening yourself up for a counter.

4. Introduce a panel where you can bind directional lightsaber swings to specific buttons

5. Hmmmmm I'll get back to this