Why did you guys remove another clan's group of servers off the master list?

[LanceOfLonginus]

Okay, I think this has gone on long enough.

When I woke up and checked the forums, I found one request to lock the thread and one post reported for flaming. Honestly, after reading through all this, I'm surprised people only reported that one post - were this the STO forums, I'm reasonably confident that half of this thread would be full of massive images to the rough effect of "Moderated for flaming.".

It is one thing to be upset about what's going on here, and to express your discontent, argue for the server's relisting, etc. in a civil manner. It is quite another to throw baseless accusations, insults and threats of litigation (IMO, one or both sides would be laughed out of court if it ever got that far) in every conceivable direction, expecting that the devs won't crack down for fear of more backlash. (Incidentally, this is precisely why I'm letting everyone off with a stern warning this time; I don't want to get smacked down for being overly zealous and/or accidentally contradicting anyone's plans for this matter. Better to let a more experienced moderator take a look at it first. )

Things are being looked into. I can't say what the outcome will be, I'm not entirely in the loop here - but this takes time, and right now the team has bigger fish to fry. Calm down, act like mature human beings from this point onwards, and I, specifically, won't touch this thread again. Don't, and the only thing that'll be able to stop me from locking it down will be orders from above.

I get that the team has bigger fish to fry and I empathize with that. Based on what's been said on the discord the team does indeed have a much larger issue on it's hands than this 10+ page thread. (Which is sort of impressive in it's own right to be said)

Might I suggest putting the server back until a final stance has been made? This is backwards judicial action as it stands. Accusation and punishment before proof. The very definition of cart before the horse. Action should follow proof, not accusation. And if you do have proof that you can't post now due to bigger fish you can at least save everyone the headache of just putting the server back on for the next 3-4 days until everything settles on the team's end and a coherent response can be made.

 

[Kyton]

It doesnt matter if you have known them for years, a piss poor decision is a piss poor decision, and this one happened to cause massive rifts throughout the community, and should not be tolerated.

- - - Updated - - -

I get that the team has bigger fish to fry and I empathize with that. Based on what's been said on the discord the team does indeed have a much larger issue on it's hands than this 10+ page thread. (Which is sort of impressive in it's own right to be said)

Might I suggest putting the server back until a final stance has been made? This is backwards judicial action as it stands. Accusation and punishment before proof. The very definition of cart before the horse. Action should follow proof, not accusation. And if you do have proof that you can't post now due to bigger fish you can at least save everyone the headache of just putting the server back on for the next 3-4 days until everything settles on the team's end and a coherent response can be made.

this dude makes sense. At the very least this should have been undone already pending a legitimate investigation into whatever whoever claims they did to deserve it.

 

[SkeeSilentT]

Then those other people are wrong and spreading misinformation. I will say it again. Tempest was not the one who blacklisted the servers.

If you know, please share the answers to these questions:

1. Who was, as you phased it, "the one who blacklisted the servers?"
.: It astonishes me how we're all in the dark about this simple question still. They've really circled the wagons, and are playing damage control, aren't they? No one has stepped up or told anyone anything, as if it isn't even our business. The team has not stated any specific reason or incident, nor have they shared any shred of evidence which even remotely suggests that this punishment matches the offense(s.) It's like they view the relationship we, the players, have to them as it's us who's borrowing their toys, and they can revoke them on a whim, no questions asked.

2. How long did it take for the team to take down the servers from the master list after hearing about the 'doxxing' incident?
.: As far as I know, it took less than 3 hours to jump to this decision, and yet after 48+ hours nothing has been done to reconcile the unnamed dev(s)' abuse.

3. Do they have the decency to reverse the decision, even if they don't have the common courtesy enough to admit they were wrong and acted rashly?

 

[DaloLorn]

Might I suggest putting the server back until a final stance has been made? This is backwards judicial action as it stands. Accusation and punishment before proof. The very definition of cart before the horse. Action should follow proof, not accusation. And if you do have proof that you can't post now due to bigger fish you can at least save everyone the headache of just putting the server back on for the next 3-4 days until everything settles on the team's end and a coherent response can be made.

As far as I understand it, the reasoning behind the server's removal was that allowing the doxing to go unimpeded would be more harmful than the negative consequences of a false alarm. Right or wrong, there is some logic in it.

1. Who was, as you phased it, "the one who blacklisted the servers?"
.: It astonishes me how we're all in the dark about this simple question still. They've really circled the wagons, and are playing damage control, aren't they? No one has stepped up or told anyone anything, as if it isn't even our business. The team has not stated any specific reason or incident, nor have they shared any shred of evidence which even remotely suggests that this punishment matches the offense.

There's only two groups of people that would have the right to answer that question, IMO. The team leads, and the people who blacklisted the servers. Clearly, none of them believe that pointing fingers would contribute to solving the problem.

3. Do they have the decency to reverse the decision, even if they don't have the common courtesy enough to admit they were wrong and acted rashly?

If the investigation yields negative results, then I'm pretty sure that the server will be relisted. It doesn't (or, at least, it shouldn't?) take a dev to come to that conclusion. Of course, there is the option of falsifying evidence, but I should hope nobody involved in this matter would stoop so low.

 

[Tasmann]

Says the person who cannot see half the post is throwing insults, telling me I'm the one not being logical. Please. Flaming isn't allowed on the forums regardless of the rest of the content. If you're going to ignore the whole flaming part of his posts then yeah you are right about what it says. However, If you include the entire context, hes an asshole who does nothing to help the cause and just diminish the quality of discussion in the thread by flinging those insults.

Inductive reasoning? How about confirmation bias. You're taking my post and modifying its meaning, claiming you know the reason, intent, or context behind it when you didn't write it. Jesus listen to your own advice.

See that's the issue, if you knew a single thing about logic, you would know what inductive reasoning actually merits in terms of knowledge. The whole reason I mentioned it is because I was arriving at a probable conclusion, rather than a demonstrated conclusion. Meaning, I was arriving at a probability, not a necessity. I specifically went about it like that because ultimately I'm not absolutely certain about the context of your content. Rather, I was pointing out the flaw in your response by exposing the probable implication from it. No, I did not change your statement at all. I simply examined it more deeply than clearly you are even willing to do.

Addressing your retort about Radiance flaming, you are simply wrong. You are trying to play a card that really is not applicable, if you actually look at what is being said in Radiance's post. Flaming is going after another person's character for no reason other than the defamation of that person's name, or in smaller words, insulting the person for the sake of insulting him and belittling him. Just because someone uses a bunch of non PG-13 words and phrases does not necessitate that that person is flaming. Radiance is simply coming hard and strong at this decision because it really is a dumb as hell decision, and it is his first time seeing this at the time he made the post. He's not flaming, he's simply not bothering with political correctness and pansy hurt feelings and actually telling it like it is. Do you really think that no flaming means to treat this as if it's some little kid TV show like Dora the Explorer or Blue's Clues, where not a single bad word can be used? Toughen up, Nancy. It's called the truth not being censored by pansy feelings. A well-known, healthy counter to this disease of political correctness and pansy feelings is growing a pair of balls, I suggest you do that with haste before making another reply, as well as getting a little dose of logic before you even dare to challenge anyone on such discussions.

Back on track to the actual issue at hand, if you all seem so certain about Tempest not being the one who blacklisted the servers, if y'all are so certain about who it really is, then why are you so unwilling to even share this information with anyone, especially tR? You removed one of the most popular servers off the master list on a whim, and you had no decency to even prepare a statement or give a reason before taking it down. Seriously, are you so caught up in your own manipulation of the community that you can't see the major impact that such an ill-made decision would have? At this point, I can honestly see why people were making speculations as to an AOD cover-up plot, even jokingly, because at this point no other good reason has been given. The only reasons that have come up are speculation and hurt feelings about "trolling." Seriously, how sad is it that out of the reasons given by various people, the most probably one is just pansy hurt feelings about trolling and the server not being run the way that is in the vision of the devs? Are you kidding me? Wake up, seriously, and see the problem with all of this. And don't sit there and claim how well you can prove who didn't do it or what not when you're not even willing to share any evidence, because honestly, that either does two things: 1) shows that you're just trying to cover someone's ass, or 2) you really have no evidence to provide and are just trying to end the backlash. Either way, you're going about this completely the wrong way, and need to actually be somewhat truthful.

 

[Kyton]

This is why i stay away from other communities. Someone in my own clan does something fucked up and against the rules, they are punished, there is no debate to it, no attempting to hide the crime, none of this, reguardless of how long they have been around, it seems like every other group wants to hide their members wrongdoings, and they think they are doing it out of loyalty, but breaking your own rules to protect an individual is frankly, going to result in your clan/group/team devolving into retardation. Rules without exceptions last, rules bent to protect friends do not. maybe this is why some of these clans cant seem to last more than a few months before iterations. protecting the guilty one here is not doing you guys a favor, its not showing 'respect', its simply shielding that person from the outcome of their own action, which should be theirs to bear in full.

As far as I understand it, the reasoning behind the server's removal was that allowing the doxing to go unimpeded would be more harmful than the negative consequences of a false alarm. Right or wrong, there is some logic in it.



There's only two groups of people that would have the right to answer that question, IMO. The team leads, and the people who blacklisted the servers. Clearly, none of them believe that pointing fingers would contribute to solving the problem.

- - - Updated - - -

If the investigation yields negative results, then I'm pretty sure that the server will be relisted. It doesn't (or, at least, it shouldn't?) take a dev to come to that conclusion. Of course, there is the option of falsifying evidence, but I should hope nobody involved in this matter would stoop so low.

Thats well and good, but all removing them did was further invoke the ire of whoever did it to begin with, and draw MORE attention to it.

 

[chicknman]

Monthtly payments are coming up and we need to know if we should renew or not, so we would like an answer sooner than later.

 

[k4far]

Monthtly payments are coming up and we need to know if we should renew or not, so we would like an answer sooner than later.

You guys were paying monthly instead of buying it for a year or longer to get a significant discount (over all these years)? And this month happens to be the final renewal period, interesting.

Bugging will not speed things up.

 

[chicknman]

All this time you were paying monthly instead of buying it for a year or longer to get a significant discount (over all these years)? And this month happens to be the final renewal period, interesting.

Bugging will not speed things up.

What you said didn't make any sense so I'll be the better person and not respond in rage.

 

[KimmyMarin]

God damn This is a really Spicy thread. Anyone want a hug? or some H4XS maybe to make you guys feel better?

well.. only if those h4xs are from midge #inbeforespam

also the thread has turned out quite interesting i cant wait to see the outcome of this.
interesting comments while of course the rest are just rambling and flaming, patience is your best friend at this moment.

 

[Deadlined]

You guys were paying monthly instead of buying it for a year or longer to get a significant discount (over all these years)? And this month happens to be the final renewal period, interesting.

Bugging will not speed things up.

Uh, no. If I don't pay for our servers, they get shut down. And I sure as hell am not paying for servers that no one will use because they can't see. I owe on 7/3, 7/5, and 7/6 for each server.

 

[eezstreet]

As far as I understand it, the reasoning behind the server's removal was that allowing the doxing to go unimpeded would be more harmful than the negative consequences of a false alarm. Right or wrong, there is some logic in it.

This doesn't really follow though, because:
1. There's nothing stopping people who know the IP from actually connecting and therefore continuing to dox/threaten people.
2. Outside of the server, there are other avenues where people could be doxxed/threatened (Discord, etc)
3. (and perhaps most importantly) there isn't evidence presented publicly about these people. We don't even know if they're in tR let alone what their ranking was. What even happened? Did someone dox someone else? There have been two different leaders of tR who have spoken out and said that this kind of behavior is unacceptable, and one said that they wanted to punish the people involved, but nobody on the dev team wanted to speak to them or tell them who it was so they could.
Edit,
4. The thing their clan is accused of (doxxing/threatening people, I think?) is not against the server list Terms of Use anyway (not that I condone this behavior)

In my view, this all could've been avoided if the devs had spoken to tR and brought the allegations to them first, instead of giving everyone this headache.

 

[cgj26]

No it is not.

Wot. No it's not to what?

 

[DaloLorn]

In my view, this all could've been avoided if the devs had spoken to tR and brought the allegations to them first, instead of giving everyone this headache.

Oh, that's not the only thing that could have been done better, if you ask me... but we are where we are, I'm afraid. Not much left to do except see where things go now.

 

[eezstreet]

Oh, that's not the only thing that could have been done better, if you ask me... but we are where we are, I'm afraid. Not much left to do except see where things go now.

They could put the server up back on the list for the moment until the evidence has been publicly given. And talk to tR, because as far as I know, nobody has done so yet.

 

[Sammy]

Wot. No it's not to what?

It's not an instant permanent ban to discuss the issue on AOD servers, you are simply asked to stop the discussion.

Derek is one of AOD's Jedi Knight division leaders and he was replying to your post.

 

[KimmyMarin]

It's not an instant permanent ban to discuss the issue on AOD servers, you are simply asked to stop the discussion.

Derek is one of AOD's Jedi Knight division leaders and he was replying to your post.

im sure he knows that Sammy mustard of hellu's, he was just poking around.

 

[cgj26]

It's not an instant permanent ban to discuss the issue on AOD servers, you are simply asked to stop the discussion.

Derek is one of AOD's Jedi Knight division leaders and he was replying to your post.

I wasn't asked or warned at all
I said like two things about it and Nobody told me to stop
then WHAM perma ban
Edit: When I get home I'll tell you who banned me with his/her/it's reason

 

[KimmyMarin]

I wasn't asked or warned at all
I said like two things about it and Nobody told me to stop
then WHAM perma ban

it would be wise to keep this chat somewhere else considering is off topic, it creates more spam than nescesary. :x
The End.

 

[Deadlined]

It's not an instant permanent ban to discuss the issue on AOD servers, you are simply asked to stop the discussion.

Derek is one of AOD's Jedi Knight division leaders and he was replying to your post.

See, at tR we wouldn't censor conversation like that. Reasons like that are why we were popular.