v1.5 increased projectile speeds: discussion

Stassin

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Alright folks this is a pretty crucial subject for the mod's gameplay, and even though it seemed to receive mostly positive feedback during the previous open betas, hence its addition in v1.5, now the feedback appears to be quite divided on the subject with both very positive and very negative stances.

To reiterate, the projectile speeds have been increased by 15% across the board in the v1.5 release, with the exception of projectile rifle shots and clone blobs (and SBD blobs in FA).
 
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Wow fuck that’s making me salty

Im not having fun with sabers anymore, so I switched to gunners which now plays amazing in comparison to before and now you’re saying you’re gonna change that again?

Im so done with the series of buttfuck I’m getting with this mod, I’m so really done

it’s obvious from the votes the most of us want to keep having quicker blaster bolts, stop ruining everyone’s experience because of few crying babes with big mouth

And I’m Sorry if it offend some of you guys but holy shit... can we fucking stop changing every fucking thing

Im having fun with gunners for once in 3 years and i cant go back to sabering because it’s too bland for my taste

Don’t take from me the only option I’ve got left to have fun
 
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>66.7% of votes wants to keep the change while only 33.3% want to revert it
>yet the reverts are already suggested because of a minority being unable to adapt to the game

what the actual fuck are you guys only able to change jedi/Sith and keep the changes for patches??
 

Cat

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>butthurt
The Brass has spoken: "Obviously, it is still too early ... to make any decisions". You may settle down now, nobody is reverting the patch.
 
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>butthurt
The Brass has spoken: "Obviously, it is still too early ... to make any decisions". You may settle down now, nobody is reverting the patch.
Either its a top tier bait or u don't know what the word suggest means mate
 

MaceMadunusus

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Guys I wish you would all stop fighting with each other. ALL of you are leaving valuable feedback and ALL of you have warranted opinions in this case. I really think we need to go for a middle ground here instead of one or the other because of this.

There are plenty of valid reasons to keep higher speed projectiles such as:
  • Higher aim consistency (less guesswork).
  • Better long range suppression, especially against classes like snipers.
  • ADAD spam being less viable.
  • Better defense against highly mobile classes.
  • Easier to get into/understand for new comers.
Just like there are plenty of valid reasons the higher speed can be detrimental:
  • Classes that relied on mobility for survivability now have a harder time.
  • TTK Reduction / harder to stay alive (particularly for lower HP classes)
  • Easier to hit and drain saberists that rely on blocking rather than HP for survival.
  • Lower percentage variability between speeds of each individual weapon.
  • Some weapons becoming really strong.
Now obviously this isn't all the points (or the most important) for both sides but were the ones I saw/thought of quickly. I just wanted to illustrate 5 points for either side that show that both are valid.

Like I said with other polls that we have run: A forum poll gives us an idea but should never be treated as fact because a large majority of people who play MB2, and a good chunk that visit the forums, don't vote on things like this. This poll doesn't even account for the people who have downloaded through ModDB. We can't make a decision off of the poll but we can use it to educate ourselves on how the community is feeling and move forward with that information. We need to take feedback from everyone, and even if a majority of the people like faster projectile speeds we need to see why the people who don't like the speeds dislike it. If they dislike it for valid reasons like they do currently then we should try and do something about it.
 
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k4far

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I would like to ask then why this poll isn't pinned anywhere? It's basically a regular forum thread with moderate attention. Why are you not announcing it properly in the News or Developer Diary? What about Discord? You want to reach all of the player base yet very little was done to achieve that. People are finding out now that we have some poll about guns they also have no idea what is this about exactly so I think we should restart this thing and properly announce it. It's too important to be treated like some irrelevant sh1t.
 

SeV

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I would like to ask then why this poll isn't pinned anywhere? It's basically a regular forum thread with moderate attention.
Why are you not announcing it properly in the News or Developer Diary also on Discord. People are finding now that we have some poll about guns they also have no idea what is this about so I think we should restart this thing and properly announce it.

Yeah, do it like with brexit. Keep re-running the vote until desired result is obtained. **Cough**

You can still vote here.
 

Nex

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Like I said with other polls that we have run: A forum poll gives us an idea but should never be treated as fact because a large majority of people who play MB2, and a good chunk that visit the forums, don't vote on things like this. This poll doesn't even account for the people who have downloaded through ModDB. We can't make a decision off of the poll but we can use it to educate ourselves on how the community is feeling and move forward with that information. We need to take feedback from everyone, and even if a majority of the people like faster projectile speeds we need to see why the people who don't like the speeds dislike it. If they dislike it for valid reasons like they do currently then we should try and do something about it.

While you're at it, you should also take a look at who voted for Yes. Literally last 5 members are newly made accounts that joined this week or simply k4's fakes as he admitted on discord he was about to do that according to what some people have told me. This guy is truly mental. 7777, Zearah, Thingy, GeneralDogFood, kcaz659...these are 99% fakes. Maybe more of them there, didn't check all, only the last ones for quick preview.
 

MaceMadunusus

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The only way to reach enough of the player base to base judgement on is to have a poll run within the game itself for WEEKS. We do not have the ability to do that. Yes we could announce it other places but this wasn't exactly a planned poll either.

While you're at it, you should also take a look at who voted for Yes. Literally last 5 members are newly made accounts that joined this week or simply k4's fakes as he admitted on discord he was about to do that according to what some people have told me

Also why we don't base everything on forum polls. Easily manipulated. Pretty sure at least 1 or 2 of those aren't k4far fakes though. K4far if this is true: Knock it the fuck off. Do you want to be banned again?
 

k4far

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The only way to reach enough of the player base to base judgement on is to have a poll run within the game itself for WEEKS. We do not have the ability to do that. Yes we could announce it other places but this wasn't exactly a planned poll either.



Also why we don't base everything on forum polls. Easily manipulated. Pretty sure at least 1 or 2 of those aren't k4far fakes though. K4far if this is true: Knock it the fuck off. Do you want to be banned again?


Do you want to lose community support again, lmao.

Not a single account out of those who voted is my alt. I want an apology for that @Defiant. Mace is being a dick. Congratulations for listening to the worst sniper in EU and certified admin abuser on public servers. Also unmute Supa in Discord his vote matters here too and he stopped coming online since you shut him down like some trash.
 
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Aside from TK-ing and trolling with @Bob-Billy , I don't play Open due to various reasons: It's 3rd person; the retarded nature of the game - that classes play for players and not players themselves (ur reking me with sold so im gonna switch to SBD, lul), Sith/Jedi hugging corners on deathstar, it's very effective; Possibility of players cheating (wallhack.dll, etc.); There are better video games than MBII Open mode.

Increased projectile speeds mean that hugging corners and pre-aiming targets in 3rd person is buffed which gives me even bigger of a reason not to play Open.

EDIT: Forgot to mention gay Dodge mechanic for gunners.
 
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Infraction: Flaming
While you're at it, you should also take a look at who voted for Yes. Literally last 5 members are newly made accounts that joined this week or simply k4's fakes as he admitted on discord he was about to do that according to what some people have told me. This guy is truly mental. 7777, Zearah, Thingy, GeneralDogFood, kcaz659...these are 99% fakes. Maybe more of them there, didn't check all, only the last ones for quick preview.
Who are u calling fake u EU cuck.
Dude there fucking NA players too.
Stop living under a rock.
 
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Wow fuck that’s making me salty

Im not having fun with sabers anymore, so I switched to gunners which now plays amazing in comparison to before and now you’re saying you’re gonna change that again?

Im so done with the series of buttfuck I’m getting with this mod, I’m so really done

it’s obvious from the votes the most of us want to keep having quicker blaster bolts, stop ruining everyone’s experience because of few crying babes with big mouth

And I’m Sorry if it offend some of you guys but holy shit... can we fucking stop changing every fucking thing

Im having fun with gunners for once in 3 years and i cant go back to sabering because it’s too bland for my taste

Don’t take from me the only option I’ve got left to have fun

"stop ruining everyone’s experience because of few crying babes with big mouth" This just this... Gunplay is actually fun now. There is no reason to revert it. Snipers cant camp a corner for the whole round and get away with it now. All i see here people with sniper/ee3 mains making a big fuss about it.
 
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While you're at it, you should also take a look at who voted for Yes. Literally last 5 members are newly made accounts that joined this week or simply k4's fakes as he admitted on discord he was about to do that according to what some people have told me. This guy is truly mental. 7777, Zearah, Thingy, GeneralDogFood, kcaz659...these are 99% fakes. Maybe more of them there, didn't check all, only the last ones for quick preview.


Pretty much what kcaz said.

EDIT: I love the speed increase. As a soldier only player, it's so much easier to punish careless/inexperienced Jedi/Sith. When two saber classes are dueling and I'm also present, I get the biggest high off of taking pot shots at the opponent in their attack animations or getting knocked down, the increased speed makes this a lot easier since I don't have to be as close to the duel to account for projectile speed. This helps put on the pressure and is pretty much a guaranteed frag.

As far as gunner v gunner fights, I'm more rewarded for actually tracking my opponent accurately in close quarters and more rewarded for realistic long range combat with realistic prediction and leading my shots.
 
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{Δ} Achilles

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Guys I wish you would all stop fighting with each other. ALL of you are leaving valuable feedback and ALL of you have warranted opinions in this case. I really think we need to go for a middle ground here instead of one or the other because of this.

There are plenty of valid reasons to keep higher speed projectiles such as:
  • Higher aim consistency (less guesswork).
  • Better long range suppression, especially against classes like snipers.
  • ADAD spam being less viable.
  • Better defense against highly mobile classes.
  • Easier to get into/understand for new comers.
Just like there are plenty of valid reasons the higher speed can be detrimental:
  • Classes that relied on mobility for survivability now have a harder time.
  • TTK Reduction / harder to stay alive (particularly for lower HP classes)
  • Easier to hit and drain saberists that rely on blocking rather than HP for survival.
  • Lower percentage variability between speeds of each individual weapon.
  • Some weapons becoming really strong.
Now obviously this isn't all the points (or the most important) for both sides but were the ones I saw/thought of quickly. I just wanted to illustrate 5 points for either side that show that both are valid.

Like I said with other polls that we have run: A forum poll gives us an idea but should never be treated as fact because a large majority of people who play MB2, and a good chunk that visit the forums, don't vote on things like this. This poll doesn't even account for the people who have downloaded through ModDB. We can't make a decision off of the poll but we can use it to educate ourselves on how the community is feeling and move forward with that information. We need to take feedback from everyone, and even if a majority of the people like faster projectile speeds we need to see why the people who don't like the speeds dislike it. If they dislike it for valid reasons like they do currently then we should try and do something about it.


From what it looks like, the reasons to keep the gunning change (Or go to 30% like I suggested which is the best testing result and maximum increase possible before reflective glass breaks) are due to positive mechanical changes that simply improve the gunplay and feel of the game. Whereas the 'reasons' for removing said change are balance related. Balance can be changed easily. Who in their right mind would ever sacrifice superior gun mechanics for something as easily tweaked as class/weapon balance?

This entire discussion is nonsense.
 
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From what it looks like, the reasons to keep the gunning change (Or go to 30% like I suggested which is the best testing result and maximum increase possible before reflective glass breaks) are due to positive mechanical changes that simply improve the gunplay and feel of the game. Whereas the 'reasons' for removing said change are balance related. Balance can be changed easily. Who in their right mind would ever sacrifice superior gun mechanics for something as easily tweaked as class/weapon balance?

This entire discussion is nonsense.
almost like ppl forgot you can change classes other than jedi and sith
Seriously you can just lower the damage numbers on some weapons, the gun play in this game is actually fun and engaging now
 

Stassin

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BTW @ez.HTD in case deka gets discharge by default is it fine for PM to no longer be used via altattack but instead special 2 ? since PM mode toggle is currently both on special 2 and on toggletriple3, it would then only be on toggletriple3 which is just fine. yes ?
 

NPC

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I do not enjoy the higher projectile speeds, didn't like it in beta, don't like it now. I don't feel it adds anything other then lowering the skill level for gunning at medium to long range and taking away from the MB2's signature combat style. That said, I realize my enjoyment isn't going to matter to anyone and it looks like the wind is blowing towards the changes.

To that end, the one major balance gripe I have that I feel needs to be addressed is the increase in projectile speeds has buffed E-11 to the point where it's hard to justify taking Pistol 3, A280, or Delta20a as Hero, Elite Trooper, or Bounty Hunter (note I've not tried the T-21 yet). The extra projectile speed and the burst fire modes used to make the aforementioned weapons useful in medium ranged firefights but with the projectile speed increase has made the E-11 a lot more reliable at medium ranged, combined with it's dps, the E-11 overshadows it's competition in almost all situation for me.

The ARC's Westar Rifle with scope also feels significantly buffed to me, but I actually like that. You've got a lot better of a chance out-sniping EE3 sniper Mandos and Projectile Rifle Bounty Hunters. Even keeps Disruptor Bounty Hunters on their toes. Sliver lining in every cloud I guess.
 
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I do not enjoy the higher projectile speeds, didn't like it in beta, don't like it now. I don't feel it adds anything other then lowering the skill level for gunning at medium to long range and taking away from the MB2's signature combat style. That said, I realize my enjoyment isn't going to matter to anyone and it looks like the wind is blowing towards the changes.

To that end, the one major balance gripe I have that I feel needs to be addressed is the increase in projectile speeds has buffed E-11 to the point where it's hard to justify taking Pistol 3, A280, or Delta20a as Hero, Elite Trooper, or Bounty Hunter (note I've not tried the T-21 yet). The extra projectile speed and the burst fire modes used to make the aforementioned weapons useful in medium ranged firefights but with the projectile speed increase has made the E-11 a lot more reliable at medium ranged, combined with it's dps, the E-11 overshadows it's competition in almost all situation for me.

The ARC's Westar Rifle with scope also feels significantly buffed to me, but I actually like that. You've got a lot better of a chance out-sniping EE3 sniper Mandos and Projectile Rifle Bounty Hunters. Even keeps Disruptor Bounty Hunters on their toes. Sliver lining in every cloud I guess.
If they decide to change speed based on ROF there is a good chance that E-11 will be slightly lower and may make those options slightly more viable.
 
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