Alright folks this is a pretty crucial subject for the mod's gameplay, and even though it seemed to receive mostly positive feedback during the previous open betas, hence its addition in v1.5, now the feedback appears to be quite divided on the subject with both very positive and very negative stances.
To reiterate, the projectile speeds have been increased by 15% across the board in the v1.5 release, with the exception of projectile rifle shots and clone blobs (and SBD blobs in FA).
Just got to this thread, probably missed a bunch of stuff. I would personally vote for only a 5 percent increase rather than 15 percent. Part of what makes it MBII is the shot prediction, I find blaster bolts staying out longer also makes suppressive fire more useful, and makes you feel more badass when firing and dodging shots. It's so cool watching your shots go down a corridor, now it just feels too quick.
I don't want MBII to become too much like a generic shooter, the speeds were already increased before, they don't need anymore.
If they go too fast slower classes won't have any hope of dodging at all, and speedy classes will be super hard to hit.
It's as practical as pushing away Clone's blob. Dunno why people insist to keep calling what they used to do with a sheer of luck "skill". When I am bored I try stuff like crouch dodging project rifle but it is not practical at all.
"Hurr durr I can't keep up, revert this change gunning is ruined (qq) let me call our old bad gunning a core of Movie Battles maybe that will do something and I will be getting rewards for face hug spraying again. Make gunners a joke again" ~ Nex.
Everything can be balanced out starting from where we are right now I am absolutely against any decrease to speeds just increase certain weapons even more.
Citation needed. I've certainly dodged my share of blobs and blaster bolts over the years, but I cannot establish a causal link between the shot being fired and me moving out of its way. (In other words, the shot missed because of the way I was moving, but I was not moving that way because I thought it would allow that exact shot to miss me.)
Haven't played any gunning this patch yet, but as for the previous patches i can say that consistently manually dodging blasterfire at midrange (from 1/3 to 1/2 of dotf corridor's length) is a thing, and sniper rifles at long range (up to full dotf corridor length) aswell. Using the dodge ability to negate sniper rifle even from midrange is a thing (particularly with dodge as it was before 1.4.5, since that's rather what i'm referring to as i haven't played 1.4.5 much at all lol).
Haven't played any gunning this patch yet, but as for the previous patches i can say that consistently manually dodging blasterfire at midrange (from 1/3 to 1/2 of dotf corridor's length) is a thing, and sniper rifles at long range (up to full dotf corridor length) aswell. Using the dodge ability to negate sniper rifle even from midrange is a thing (particularly with dodge as it was before 1.4.5, since that's rather what i'm referring to as i haven't played 1.4.5 much at all lol).
All this talk about skill ruining the thread (but hey this is what happens on every gaming forums). Basically you're debating whether playing rock paper scissors is skilled or just luck. In the end that's up to your own belief, no need to try convincing others (just google some thread or youtube video where people argue in the comments whether RPS is skilled or not for ages).
When it comes to talking about this change, I'd only rely on mathetmatics, vector space and probability cause it's factual and logical unlike talking about what's skilled or not skilled. So the main conclusion is that given an object (player) with a given speed and direction but it can change its' direction at any moment, in this case if you lead a shot correctly in the direction the object's moving at the moment you fire, you have somewhat bigger probability to hit the object.
I uploaded a "pro" paint picture for this Hitboxezz. On the left side we're talking about a long range where you have to lead a lot to your target. X2 is the spot where you had to aim in 1.4.9 and X1 is the spot where you have to aim now in 1.5. So obviously if your target decides to change direction right after you shot, you miss in both versions. However if the target keeps its direction until it covers the r1 distance and then he decides to change direction, in this case you're gonna hit in 1.5 and miss in 1.4.9. In order to hit in 1.4.9, the target needs to cover r2 distance without changing directions, which has less probability if we assume that changing directions is random.
On the right side we're talking about close range. The black box represents the target's hitbox and it's moving to the left. The blue window represents the surface in which you have to aim in order to hit the target in case he's moving to the left in 1.4.9. The green window represents the same surface just for 1.5. So we assume that the black box changes moving to the right side after you fired your well aimed shot. What we can see is that some area of the surface still collides with the target, and that area is larger in the green window (the difference is highlighted by the red filling), so again we can see that you have a little higher probability to hit the target even if the target decides to change directions.
Since the change is only 15% boost, I don't think it's much, so people who have stated in this thread, that they don't feel a difference, they are absolutely right to feel that way. I think people who are talking about hitscan absolutely overdramatize this change.
The shot speed increase can only be felt really at longer distances.
let's say previous speed was 100 unit/sec, now it is 115 unit/sec. If you shot at a target within 20 units, the time the shot takes to reach the target is 20[unit]/100[unit/sec]=0,2 sec and 20/115=0,17 sec. Now at 1000 unit distance the time is 1000/100=10 sec and 1000/115=8,7 sec, so the time difference in the 1st case is 0,03 sec and in the 2nd case it's 1,3 sec, so obviously you don't need to adjust your aim much when you're firing at a close target.
On maps like mygeeto or jakku, which we never play, but the change is notable at dotf's main distance probably too.
For me in the end it's the same thing, we still have the same "luck based" gunning, just with a little higher probability to award a well aimed shot. Also basically you just transformed the distances, now you have to aim at x range the same way you used to aim at y (y is closer than x) range in 1.4.9.. It's down to your opinion and feelings whether you like it or not. I pretty much feel as Gargos stated in the first page: "When the projectile speeds were buffed first time, I liked it. It felt like this is very optimal for this game. This time it feels like it is too much. I just do not see the need for buffing the projectile speeds."
But anyway, all this trash talk about the other side of the voters being bad players. Just have a match about it. 5 self proclaimed best player of each camp (yes/no) duke it out in a 5v5 match. The winner will decide whether the change remains or not, cause obviously the "most skilled" players know what's the best for the game.
That's random motion, not deliberate dodging. Deliberate dodging would be reacting to a shot and moving out of its way. That wook isn't even facing the shooter most of the time, so he's definitely just randomly evading.
My only arguement against increased projectile speed is that it just doesn't feel more skillful as before. I played more Open than usual these days and it feels like I'm getting kills that I normally wouldn't get in previous patch. I didn't suddenly get better at gunning, just means that this speed caters a bit more to less skilled gunners. If that's the direction that was intended then I guess it's succesful so far, I respect that, but I'm not a big fan of it. I will also say that this isn't game breaking for me, I still enjoy playing Open a lot and maybe as we all get more used to the patch we'll see more benefits of it.
Haven't played any gunning this patch yet, but as for the previous patches i can say that consistently manually dodging blasterfire at midrange (from 1/3 to 1/2 of dotf corridor's length) is a thing, and sniper rifles at long range (up to full dotf corridor length) aswell. Using the dodge ability to negate sniper rifle even from midrange is a thing (particularly with dodge as it was before 1.4.5, since that's rather what i'm referring to as i haven't played 1.4.5 much at all lol).
That's random motion, not deliberate dodging. Deliberate dodging would be reacting to a shot and moving out of its way. That wook isn't even facing the shooter most of the time, so he's definitely just randomly evading.
Not at all. It's easier for me to get kills now. The problem is this will affect gameplay in other ways. Dekas will get creamed even more so now because of the faster speeds. Deka could be buffed to make up for this of course (not buffing the shield strength, see the deka thread somewhere here). Aiming where people are instead of where they are going is what MBII is turning into. Which doesn't really sound like a bad thing in itself, but what made MBII unique was the slower speeds IMO.
But perhaps it's fine, and I'm just overreacting and worrying MBII will turn into almost a CSGO like game where whoever reacts first instantly wins. (I'm talking in terms of two ET's fighting).
Not at all. It's easier for me to get kills now. The problem is this will affect gameplay in other ways. Dekas will get creamed even more so now because of the faster speeds. Deka could be buffed to make up for this of course (not buffing the shield strength, see the deka thread somewhere here). Aiming where people are instead of where they are going is what MBII is turning into. Which doesn't really sound like a bad thing in itself, but what made MBII unique was the slower speeds IMO.
But perhaps it's fine, and I'm just overreacting and worrying MBII will turn into almost a CSGO like game where whoever reacts first instantly wins. (I'm talking in terms of two ET's fighting).
The maximum amount of projectile speed increase possible is 30%. That is not hitscan, and slower projectile speeds does not make MB2 unique. I wish people would stop with that silly argument. There are countless games with slow projectiles and fast momentumless movement.
But perhaps it's fine, and I'm just overreacting and worrying MBII will turn into almost a CSGO like game where whoever reacts first instantly wins. (I'm talking in terms of two ET's fighting).
I seriously don't understand what's wrong with that? If the person is careless and too slow to react they should be punished for that, CSGO's gunning takes a lot more skill than MB2 too, but it's comparing apples to oranges.
Your argument is out of place because Tribes Ascend did not die to changes (your suggestion about the game losing what's "unique"?). Quite the opposite the lack of any changes being made to the game. Developer abandoned own project and it died from the lack of attention and the player base just dispersed. The game is still "unique" and dead if you are aiming for that then I completely agree with your "NO" vote.
I seriously don't understand what's wrong with that? If the person is careless and too slow to react they should be punished for that, CSGO's gunning takes a lot more skill than MB2 too, but it's comparing apples to oranges.
The only "unique" thing in Movie Battles 2 is sabering. Nobody comes to MB2 because they hear "Have you see gunning in Movie Battles 2? It's great!". Somebody might say that one day when we get some proper balancing and start rewarding reflexes more. Gunning is slowly getting more challenging to be more rewarding for good players. I am a fan of arena shooters and our maps are not arena like sadly they are full of clutches with long corridors the only ones who disbenefit with speeds change are camping snipers and some poor people without legs and bad Jedi/Sith - should be just dying even faster and their cries discarded.
