The next steps forward

Hey everyone. I know that a lot of were expecting changes for the current state of saber v gunner and/or saber v saber in this patch but I assure you, things are still in motion to get those settled and pushed out!

As a preface, MB2 has had a theme of changing things for the sake of changing or trying to address problems in really weird/roundabout ways and not actually solving the issues. This leads/has led to problems not actually being solved and/or creating new ones (although there's been a lot of cool stuff along the way). Moving forward, there's going to be more focus on adjusting things to being able to have more static baselines (e.g. there shouldn't be any major overhauls to saber v gunner interactions once all of this stuff is sorted out) or prepping for future changes, whether completely new features or more intricate adjustments to current ones.

We want to make the game feel more dynamic, volatile, exciting, and of course, fun. That is the main focus of these changes for the next patch as well as the long term goal for MB2 overall.

That said, some time in the following days, we are going to set up an open beta for testing the adjustments to saber v gunner. This will likely involve reconfiguring one of the official servers with the new changes (no messing with files for anyone who wants to try them out!), having a channel on the official discord dedicated to discussions, as well as scheduled times for when devs/beta testers will be around to observe/gather feedback firsthand during gameplay.

Things that will be different and that will be closely looked at include (but aren't limited to) the following:

• No more flinch
• No more FP regen debuff
• Increased knockback against saberists
• Jedi/Sith only having damage reduction in specific circumstances (not universally)
• Changes to caps on FP drains (especially for blocking)
• Tweaks to Pistol/Bowcaster charged damage
• Ammo changes for the Projectile Rifle
• Adjustments to projectile speeds

There's more but those are the main points of interest for gameplay changes. Additionally, what's listed in the final changelog that will be included with the open beta is not the extent of what's being looked at. This is just what's been fully agreed on, vetted, and implemented.

I'm also hoping that more transparency on what's being worked on as well as why will help improve community relations in the long run and make it easier for both those working on the mod as well as those waiting for new toys/features/etc. On that note, for those still wondering about the saber system changes, we're still working on figuring out the details since those aren't purely server-side adjustments. Stay tuned for more info!

 

[MuscBodypillow]

Sniper and skilled? Lucky maybe, but skilled...no.
Most of them waiting behind their mates until someone got pushed to get some easy kill.
Still wouldnt care about these type of sniper.
The worst are the sniper kids who jump around the corner for a luckshot and kill a teammate and of course the arrogant ones who shoot in a duel and hit also the mate in their stupidity.
So if this class gets harder and fewer people play it, I definitely would appreciate that.
And if someone think only saberists have a problem with snipers youre wrong.

Sniping is mostly about reflex and hiding, if you hide properly you can 1hit anyone, otherwise you can kill anyone except jedis if they are aware of your presence. The best counter to sniper is a surprise deka.

But then again the best counter to everything is a surprise deka.

 

[Tempest]

Not everyone wants to carry around glowsticks, Tempest.

This isn't forcing you to use a saber by any means.

In all seriousness though, you honestly don't think there's a risk every time a sniper pops his head out? There's a lot of risk already just to do that with the fire delay on the projectile rifle and having to account for that.

There's very little risk. Most of the time, you can peek around a corner and fire before you're even visible to the person shooting at you (and that's at close range, not even counting how hard it is to see people at medium range or further away). That also doesn't even count where you can just eat shots and still get kills on people (which I find almost as sad/annoying).

I don't know where you people get off thinking that snipers are OP, they're honestly not.

I've never said it was OP. I've said it's not fun to deal with and has very little risk for the huge impact just a single Proj user can have on a round, let alone multiples.

Most of my kills come from P3 is a hero/bounty hunter usually, not to mention that if you're going up against a lot of soldiers, that's 3 bullets per player, and so at the most, if you have 100% accuracy, you could kill 5 people on the other team just using the projectile rifle, which is highly, HIGHLY unlikely.

Using an actual firefight-capable weapon to kill people? That's good! That's kind of the whole point of reducing ammo, among other concerns.

The problem is that you probably keep hearing complaints from newbies fresh off of the Disney bandwagon who are all of the sudden into Star Wars again. They enter the server, they go some random class (usually a glowstick-carrier), and then they get their asses handed to them because they don't know how to play the game, and then they start whining and complaining that "the game's too hard." The fact of the matter is that 8 times out of 10 the people who complain that snipers are OP are the ones who have far inferior skills or experience, and it's absurd to cater the mod to them, because then that takes the competitiveness out of the mod.

I've been using Proj long since before you started playing MB2. I've seen it when it was stronger than it was currently and not even limited to just Hero/BH (rip Mando proj; also when Hero didn't even have proj). It's safe to say that I am not going purely off of new players complaining about being sniped during their honor duels in DOTF hangar or anything along those lines. Both new players and veterans complain about a handful of things in common and Proj's overbearing nature is one of those.

How about nerfing something worthwhile like force push or some other insta ez-win thing such as that that really requires no skill at all rather than making it harder for the people who actually bother getting good at the game to enjoy it?

I have thoughts/plans for most things further down the line.

The absolute minimum that the projectile rifle should have at max ammo is 20 rounds. That's simply the truth. Rarely do you ever run into scenarios where a sniper single-handedly wipes out the entire enemy team by just throwing rocks down the hallway, especially with as ridiculously precise the hit-points on the models are. There's no reason whatsoever to nerf projectile rifle, and it is fine where it is at, especially considering the fact that it's the only true sniper rifle that the rebels have.

See my previous post for why this is incorrect. Also see any of the other threads/posts about Proj being overbearing for evidence of why that's incorrect.

Also, another reason why this needs to not be nerfed so hard is because all these fucking newbie jedi run around all over the hallways like they're invincible, and so can never get the perfect shot, and end up missing a lot trying to make sure you avoid the jedi. Seriously, don't fucking nerf proj rifle, it's not necessary.

You should probably try the new gunner changes out before making blanket statements that don't apply anymore.

 

[Tasmann]

What do you mean blanket statements that don't apply anymore? I added that bit literally this morning right after I had to adjust my aim because a jedi wandered into my scope like a dumbass. There are plenty of roleplayers in this mod who just want to play as their favorite character from Star Wars and get to be a cute little jedi. Then, they end up wasting your ammunition because they either blocked your shot, walked into your shot, or threw off your aim.

 

[MuscBodypillow]

What do you mean blanket statements that don't apply anymore? I added that bit literally this morning right after I had to adjust my aim because a jedi wandered into my scope like a dumbass. There are plenty of roleplayers in this mod who just want to play as their favorite character from Star Wars and get to be a cute little jedi. Then, they end up wasting your ammunition because they either blocked your shot, walked into your shot, or threw off your aim.

...so people are to blame because they are unaware of your intention and where you are looking at every moment but the opposite doesn't apply to you. Sounds logical.

 

[Tasmann]

Actually, in a team game such as MB2, yes you very much do need to be absolutely aware of what your teammates are doing. Otherwise, especially if you're playing jedi, and you're trying to block shots, or just want to roleplay and be up in the front, then you need to know where NOT to walk so that you're not shot from behind. I was aware the jedi was there and already was looking in an area where he wasn't standing, then he walks directly into my scope and I'm forced to adjust, and thus throw off the shot because the target was blocked by the dumbass jedi. Believe it or not, you're supposed to work with your team, not wave your glowstick around like a boner.

 

[Onysfx]

Actually, in a team game such as MB2, yes you very much do need to be absolutely aware of what your teammates are doing. Otherwise, especially if you're playing jedi, and you're trying to block shots, or just want to roleplay and be up in the front, then you need to know where NOT to walk so that you're not shot from behind. I was aware the jedi was there and already was looking in an area where he wasn't standing, then he walks directly into my scope and I'm forced to adjust, and thus throw off the shot because the target was blocked by the dumbass jedi. Believe it or not, you're supposed to work with your team, not wave your glowstick around like a boner.

I 100 percent agree with you on this, I keep dying because I am unable to shoot with the jedi in the way, but the enemy team can shoot me :/.

 

[RC-Delta]

2 many jedi in open, not a lot of funz


Not joking, so many jedi makes it less fun

 

[thebiggerboat3]

So, what are the odds of things like grip getting a buff?

Compared to things like speed and mindtrick for Jedi, grip and lightning are very difficult to use effectively without risking a quick death. It feels rather unbalanced.

Are these being looked into/considered? If so, what are you thinking about changing in those regards?

 

[Liniyka_xddd]

lightning

very difficult to use effectively without risking a quick death

?????????????????????????



Although I agree, grip 1/2 might need a buff or a rework of sorts.

 

[MaceMadunusus]

So, what are the odds of things like grip getting a buff?

Feedback Thread: Open Beta (after V1.4.9) - Drop 4

- Grip no longer auto-cancels after a set time

That is the only change to grip. For the moment at least.

 

[GoodOl'Ben]

So, what are the odds of things like grip getting a buff?

Compared to things like speed and mindtrick for Jedi, grip and lightning are very difficult to use effectively without risking a quick death. It feels rather unbalanced.

Are these being looked into/considered? If so, what are you thinking about changing in those regards?

The changes made to it were god-awful. The ability turned pretty pointless with Lightning outshining it in every department. It's on my list for the patch after the next to see that it gets back its oomph.

 

[thebiggerboat3]

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Although I agree, grip 1/2 might need a buff or a rework of sorts.

Grip more than lightning.

 

[thebiggerboat3]

The changes made to it were god-awful. The ability turned pretty pointless with Lightning outshining it in every department. It's on my list for the patch after the next to see that it gets back its oomph.

I seriously hope something gets done about it. It's quite frustrating.

 

[thebiggerboat3]

Feedback Thread: Open Beta (after V1.4.9) - Drop 4



That is the only change to grip. For the moment at least.

I do sincerely hope you look into improving grip further. It's a power that's been neglected for far too long.

Another matter: Is there any way we might be able to stop the cheese that is PB? That is, every time I PB anyone, it results in a futile attempt at chasing them down and killing them as they spastically jump about? It really ruins the satisfaction that scoring a PB is supposed to give.

EDIT: Forgive my verbage: PB disarm, is what I am referring to.

 

[Liniyka_xddd]

My point was that lightning is in fact very overpowered and should be nerfed asap

 

[thebiggerboat3]

My point was that lightning is in fact very overpowered and should be nerfed asap

Lightning is easy to counter and only affect force users half as bad as it should. Very overpowered is an incredible dramatic.

It's range is arbitrary and difficult to calculate as a user, it's knock down can be recovered from even if they are still being zapped, and it's difficult to actually nail someone with a swing follow up if they weren't in your face when you zapped them.

 

[Gumba]

Lightning is easy to counter and only affect force users half as bad as it should. Very overpowered is an incredible dramatic.

It's range is arbitrary and difficult to calculate as a user, it's knock down can be recovered from even if they are still being zapped, and it's difficult to actually nail someone with a swing follow up if they weren't in your face when you zapped them.

This is what you get when you allow newbies to give feedback.

 

[k4far]

Project rifle is easy to counter just don't go long corridors.

 

[CC-1119 'Appo']

Since we're removing flinch, I definitely echo @Liniyka_xddd on that Lightning needs a nerf. It's stupidly easy for a sith to get gunner kills using lightning, before there was at least an option for the gunner to trigger a flinch to reset the situation to neutral but now, not so much. As an ARC, I can at least counter-play lightning with my movement but it's definitely too strong aginst clones and solds.

 

[Lessen]

SBD is easy to counter just don't play MB2.

(ironically proj is one of the best SBD counters)

Incidentally, on the topic of lightning and grip, I was just on the US Official Beta server with plenty of players, and [tR]Phosphophyllite's effective use of Grip got people (gunners) complaining Grip was OP.

(also Phos was aggressively trolling me cuz he's tR and I'm CB so he has some kind of religious mandate. But I still respect his Grip usage.)