The next steps forward

Hey everyone. I know that a lot of were expecting changes for the current state of saber v gunner and/or saber v saber in this patch but I assure you, things are still in motion to get those settled and pushed out!

As a preface, MB2 has had a theme of changing things for the sake of changing or trying to address problems in really weird/roundabout ways and not actually solving the issues. This leads/has led to problems not actually being solved and/or creating new ones (although there's been a lot of cool stuff along the way). Moving forward, there's going to be more focus on adjusting things to being able to have more static baselines (e.g. there shouldn't be any major overhauls to saber v gunner interactions once all of this stuff is sorted out) or prepping for future changes, whether completely new features or more intricate adjustments to current ones.

We want to make the game feel more dynamic, volatile, exciting, and of course, fun. That is the main focus of these changes for the next patch as well as the long term goal for MB2 overall.

That said, some time in the following days, we are going to set up an open beta for testing the adjustments to saber v gunner. This will likely involve reconfiguring one of the official servers with the new changes (no messing with files for anyone who wants to try them out!), having a channel on the official discord dedicated to discussions, as well as scheduled times for when devs/beta testers will be around to observe/gather feedback firsthand during gameplay.

Things that will be different and that will be closely looked at include (but aren't limited to) the following:

• No more flinch
• No more FP regen debuff
• Increased knockback against saberists
• Jedi/Sith only having damage reduction in specific circumstances (not universally)
• Changes to caps on FP drains (especially for blocking)
• Tweaks to Pistol/Bowcaster charged damage
• Ammo changes for the Projectile Rifle
• Adjustments to projectile speeds

There's more but those are the main points of interest for gameplay changes. Additionally, what's listed in the final changelog that will be included with the open beta is not the extent of what's being looked at. This is just what's been fully agreed on, vetted, and implemented.

I'm also hoping that more transparency on what's being worked on as well as why will help improve community relations in the long run and make it easier for both those working on the mod as well as those waiting for new toys/features/etc. On that note, for those still wondering about the saber system changes, we're still working on figuring out the details since those aren't purely server-side adjustments. Stay tuned for more info!

 

[GoodOl'Ben]

Project rifle is easy to counter just don't go long corridors.

Not necessarily a problem if the map is designed to provide flank routes. Otherwise you can argue that the map is designed to cater to snipers.

I do sincerely hope you look into improving grip further. It's a power that's been neglected for far too long..

Until then I recommend using Grip 3. It's still powerful.

We've plotted two approaches for Grip improvements, which we'll look into further after this patch.

One would be along the lines of simple logic changes and power increase without reverting the post-grip stun, for example:

• Reduce Grip lock timer on 1 and 2 to match Grip 3's timer
• Grip 1 = Current Grip 2
• Grip 2 = Current Grip 3
• Grip 3 = Can run while gripping

Other would be to make Grip deal an instantly ramping up slow, but the stun/lift-up kicks in after the grip lock timer expires.

• Provides counter-play for the duration of the grip lock timer -> Risk / Reward
• Allows us to really up the power fantasy since the ability would have a clear-cut counter timing

 

[thebiggerboat3]

This is what you get when you allow newbies to give feedback.

"hahahAHAH n00bs hahaha"

I've been here since 1.3. Atleast try to make a decent argument.

Since we're removing flinch, I definitely echo @Liniyka_xddd on that Lightning needs a nerf. It's stupidly easy for a sith to get gunner kills using lightning, before there was at least an option for the gunner to trigger a flinch to reset the situation to neutral but now, not so much. As an ARC, I can at least counter-play lightning with my movement but it's definitely too strong aginst clones and solds.

Perhaps a reworking is in order. I'm not entirely sure, but I'll have to give lightning another go to see just how right you are on that.

SBD is easy to counter just don't play MB2.

(ironically proj is one of the best SBD counters)

Incidentally, on the topic of lightning and grip, I was just on the US Official Beta server with plenty of players, and [tR]Phosphophyllite's effective use of Grip got people (gunners) complaining Grip was OP.

(also Phos was aggressively trolling me cuz he's tR and I'm CB so he has some kind of religious mandate. But I still respect his Grip usage.)

Strange, because I was there as well, and I remember no such thing.

My only real issue with grip is how stupidly easy it is to just be a spas and not get caught in it. Heroes have it the best, but just jumping and running around makes it very easy to cheese this. It takes nearly three seconds of consistent holding of the crosshairs on the enemy to grip. If it's not directly on their hit box that entire time, you have to try another 3 seconds again.

 

[thebiggerboat3]

Not necessarily a problem if the map is designed to provide flank routes. Otherwise you can argue that the map is designed to cater to snipers.


Until then I recommend using Grip 3. It's still powerful.

We've plotted two approaches for Grip improvements, which we'll look into further after this patch.

One would be along the lines of simple logic changes and power increase without reverting the post-grip stun, for example:

• Reduce Grip lock timer on 1 and 2 to match Grip 3's timer
• Grip 1 = Current Grip 2
• Grip 2 = Current Grip 3
• Grip 3 = Can run while gripping

Other would be to make Grip deal an instantly ramping up slow, but the stun/lift-up kicks in after the grip lock timer expires.

• Provides counter-play for the duration of the grip lock timer -> Risk / Reward
• Allows us to really up the power fantasy since the ability would have a clear-cut counter timing

Your first idea sounds excellent, but I'm not sure I follow the second. Could you elaborate abit more on that?

 

[Tempest]

We've plotted two approaches for Grip improvements, which we'll look into further after this patch.

This is the first time I've seen/heard any of this. Who's the we in this context?

 

[Blazer]

The problem is grip is that it's just fucking dumb, sorry to be brutally frank with you.

The way grip is now, is that no one ever uses it, and when they do, it's just plain stupid.
Scenario 1: A 1v1 between a sith and a jedi, the sith just sits there like a noob and just spams grip the whole fight, leaving the jedi having to just run around wildly trying to keep him from gripping him, and even if the sith grips him, the jedi can just use push or nothing happens.

Scenario 2: A 2v1,3v1,etc between a sith, a few imperial gunners, and a jedi. The sith just pushes the jedi and spams grip, leaving the jedi having to run around like a chicken just to get away from him, and then the sith grips him and the gunners kill him. But even in that 2v1,3v1 scenario, grip would never be needed if the two players were decent and had a brain.

Either way, grip is pretty garbage, because not only does it suck, but it's just annoying to play with. It's so frustrating when you try to have a good 1v1 or 2v1, and all you can think about the whole fight is jumping around and running in circles trying to avoid this fucking grip force power that hardly does anything. It just gets in your way. Grip really adds nothing to gameplay aside from having a few sith that just spam it hoping to help, and even then it's STILL USELESS because gripping a jedi leaves you 100% vulnerable to any gunners/jedi around.

Am I wrong? Someone give me some feedback. I hardly ever use grip, but when I do it adds nothing to my arsenal except just getting jedi to dance around for me. Even if I DO grip a jedi, you can't even kill him unless you have push3 so what's the point?

 

[thebiggerboat3]

The problem is grip is that it's just fucking dumb, sorry to be brutally frank with you.

The way grip is now, is that no one ever uses it, and when they do, it's just plain stupid.
Scenario 1: A 1v1 between a sith and a jedi, the sith just sits there like a noob and just spams grip the whole fight, leaving the jedi having to just run around wildly trying to keep him from gripping him, and even if the sith grips him, the jedi can just use push or nothing happens.

Scenario 2: A 2v1,3v1,etc between a sith, a few imperial gunners, and a jedi. The sith just pushes the jedi and spams grip, leaving the jedi having to run around like a chicken just to get away from him, and then the sith grips him and the gunners kill him. But even in that 2v1,3v1 scenario, grip would never be needed if the two players were decent and had a brain.

Either way, grip is pretty garbage, because not only does it suck, but it's just annoying to play with. It's so frustrating when you try to have a good 1v1 or 2v1, and all you can think about the whole fight is jumping around and running in circles trying to avoid this fucking grip force power that hardly does anything. It just gets in your way. Grip really adds nothing to gameplay aside from having a few sith that just spam it hoping to help, and even then it's STILL USELESS because gripping a jedi leaves you 100% vulnerable to any gunners/jedi around.

Am I wrong? Someone give me some feedback. I hardly ever use grip, but when I do it adds nothing to my arsenal except just getting jedi to dance around for me. Even if I DO grip a jedi, you can't even kill him unless you have push3 so what's the point?

And who can even afford p3 on a decent build after you've bought grip 3? Unless you're using a force whore character, that'd be near impossible to have, as well.

 

[Blazer]

And who can even afford p3 on a decent build after you've bought grip 3? Unless you're using a force whore character, that'd be near impossible to have, as well.

Now that I think of it, if you allowed force whores to be able to grip gunners or jedi within a few seconds it could be very interesting, this way force whores could have this cool mechanic where force users and gunners alike could be caught off guard and then gripped.
(This way grip can't be spammed and be annoying because all a jedi has to do is push the fw if he spams it)

 

[Sevarose]

Liking the changes so far, aside from the FP regen debuff.

 

[thebiggerboat3]

By the by, is there an ETA on when we can expect the next patch? Can we expect it soon? I'm looking forward to the changes you have in store for us!