The Evolution of Duel of the Fates

Discussion in 'Developer Diaries' started by MaceMadunusus, Nov 6, 2017.

  1. Defiant

    Defiant Moderator Movie Battles II Team Code Leader

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    Correct me if I'm wrong Mace, but most of that difference is probably getting rid of pit though I imagine.
     
  2. MaceMadunusus

    MaceMadunusus Movie Battles II Team

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    It is all of it. With the pit factor removed, V2 is 500 units bigger on the Y but that is also mainly due to the secondary spawn room on the bottom which similarly doesn't really receive play. Basically they're pretty much equivalent without doing a bunch of math for each room.

    Could also argue that 75% of gen isn't as useful anymore so could cut that Y out of dotfv2.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2017
  3. Gizka Poison

    Gizka Poison

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    This got my nips hard...
     
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  4. Biblical

    Biblical

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    Looks fucking Biblical! Well done lads.
     
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  5. Phoenix

    Phoenix

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    ME LIKEY
     
  6. President Bossk

    President Bossk

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    Is there still a gen room? EDIT: NM I see it now. Where is that First Order Star destroyer map I saw a while back on Facebook?
     
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  7. Rosh+

    Rosh+ US Official Server Admin

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    It looks great, but mechanically, it is much worse for somebody like me. Where the only real big open spaces where it was easy for people to find, or shoot you on the original DOTF were Hangar, and Main, now there are many more open areas where you can be shot, or found easily. There are fewer places to hide in general, and the obvious places you'd think to hide, where your character could obviously stand, are blocked by invisible walls, even if it would be easy to shoot somebody who is up in these areas, if you knew they were there in the first place.

    Also like to point out that the scale is absolutely fucked up. From the chairs in the capture area to the ceiling always being a mile high, it's like you were deliberately trying to create something like legosw. I feel like I'm walking around the halls of Valhalla, because every room looks like it was made for the mythical giants of yore.

    Also, Rebs can capture the objective in the time it takes you to walk from Fed to Throne, so that's good(!?).

    tl;dr - oh boy oh man man this looks nice but why is it so big and open and why does it make me wanna kylo myself (get it heurheurh)
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017
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  8. MaceMadunusus

    MaceMadunusus Movie Battles II Team

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    Chairs were intentionally made larger to give people a little more cover. The rest of the scale is pretty damn accurate though. https://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.ne...ne_Room.png/revision/latest?cb=20130720034408

    We aren't playing hide and go seek.
     
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  9. Rosh+

    Rosh+ US Official Server Admin

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    Inferior cover in the middle of a wide open room, where it's easy to circle around with superior cover because of the hugefuck pillars surrounding the room? Riiiiiight...

    pictures for ants
    That's not what I meant, Mace. If you don't understand what I meant, then I will elaborate.

    Most of the best tactics when it comes to playing as a Sith on the defending team, or defending your spawn from a defender pushback as a Jedi come to either:

    A.) Supporting, and defending your team.
    B.) Staying near certain key points on the map(Side -> Fed/Fed -> Throne), and ambushing key members of the enemy team, be it their best players, or just killing based on class. In this way it is a lot like playing say Spy on TF2.

    I try to mix them, and I am used to crippling enemy teams by eliminating Snipers, or Wooks/SBDs, Clones, etc, while still saving members of my team, if I am close to them, and making call outs with Sense. By making the map more open, less vertical, and eliminating most hiding spots, you are pretty much forcing Jedi/Sith to either be Role A, die, or be a gimped Role B. I'd also like to point out with the map being so open, it quickly becomes a shooting gallery. Without speed, or some other alternative movement, it takes forever to move from place to place when it comes to the throne area. Travel time really wouldn't be an issue as an attacker, but as a defender, it quickly becomes an issue when you can't even walk from fed to throne in time to stop a capture. The problem becomes more severe when you realize how buggy the capture point is in of itself.

    Just playing today, I had a 1v1 with a Sith inside the control area, and even though it was only us two alive in the capture point, I was still capping. It's bugged.

    -----
    P.S.
    Mace, leaving one sentence, that could be easily taken as insulting to the common sense of the person it was meant for, without actually addressing any of the points beyond 'hehe look at this 285 pixel image that cant at all show a sense of scale perfecte exmaple rite!?' is how you start the 'Ye Olde Internet Shitthrowing Contest' meme. It's been demonstrated before that you don't seem to like getting into heated shitpost wars, and you definitely don't like going really far off topic, based on your attitude after and towards said shitpost wars.

    So, for the sake of yourself, if for nobody else, don't try to start a flame war. Seriously, don't do that, because when you do it, and you will, maybe in a different thread in the future, maybe on a different forum, maybe sooner, maybe later...

    I don't wanna see you whine about it, cause it's something I've always witnessed you bring unto yourself. So for the last time, cause maybe you don't remember the first time I told you this:

    Don't fucking do that. I'm tired of trying to tell you this shit in a friendly way, because friendly doesn't seem to actually get through to you. Please, for the sake of yourself, for the sake of the forums, and for the sake of actually having a discussion without having it go completely off the rails, STOP.

    EDIT - If you wanna respond to this textvomit, PM me, I don't wanna derail more than I already have.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017
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  10. MaceMadunusus

    MaceMadunusus Movie Battles II Team

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    You couldn't do that in the old version either. If someone opened the door and hacked immediately, you couldn't reach them. In the 50 or so rounds I have played since release, plus those in the test sessions prior, it has yet to bug out like that while I am watching. We tested the capture point for hours in just the two days prior to release. Now it is possible based off of other things we noticed that it could do that, and if so we need to fix it but it is not nearly as buggy as you are claiming it to be.

    I have told other people I may adjust the warning system for throne proximity and touching of the capture point before the next patch to give imperials more time to react.

    https://i.gyazo.com/f3df329a7397095bc7535845710f549e.jpg It is 1533x651. I didn't link you a tiny image. That is on your end.

    And like I said, we aren't playing hide and go seek. A lot of those upper areas are blocked off for a reason. Now I might lessen some of the ones that are less of a problem once I see the gameplay more in a few areas as I can't fully predict how things are going to handle off of beta test sessions, but a large majority of the invisible walls need to stay. I had no way to not make a lot of the invisible walls and keep the design movie-like.A lot of them are also more than just to stop people from getting up to spots, but also being able to bug through the map.
     
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  11. Rosh+

    Rosh+ US Official Server Admin

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    Takes time to open the door/takes time to hack sides and bust through a window, takes time and lack of movement to hack the panel. Due to the openness of the area, it is also vital to be close at all times. Since the walk from main takes the same time, and they can just walk on it to capture it very quickly, it soon becomes imperative to abandon the secondary objective to Rebels, and then to retreat from main to camp the primary objective. Alternatively, you can also leave two or so teammates behind to guard it while you fight the enemy. However, due to this being implemented into a PUB environment, and the players usually neither knowing nor being friendly with one another, the chances of those two players refusing to camp, or just leaving after about a minute of waiting are very high. Either way, it is easiest just to camp throne. I also notice that the 'They are close to throne!' message sometimes doesn't pop up when it should, though the sound does play(Though, consider that I play without music or anything on so I can hear footsteps, and other such small sounds. Imagine how much harder it would be to hear if the music was the same volume as the noise).

    Big point is, there is no big door blocking them for 5-10 seconds of lightsaber swings, now.
    How buggy am I claiming it to be in your eyes? All I said is that the capture point can be buggy sometimes. In terms of bugginess, I am claiming it is 50% buggy, for out of the some 20 or so rounds I've played so far, it has happened about 10 times.
    Very good.
    No, you have now sent two different links.
    https://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.ne...ne_Room.png/revision/latest?cb=20130720034408 - The first you posted.
    https://i.gyazo.com/f3df329a7397095bc7535845710f549e.jpg - The second.

    Don't blame it on me, it's not on my end.
    I realize they're blocked off for a reason, but what I am saying is there are some that are blocked off where it is just silly, places where people are exposed, and can't possibly hide, etc.

    If you lessen some of the spots with invisible walls, that would make me a happy goy. Maybe I can point some out to you, later.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017
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  12. MaceMadunusus

    MaceMadunusus Movie Battles II Team

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    How is your latency/ping/internet? I am definitely not seeing the same things you are here. I've only seen one other report of the capture point glitching out and that was for one round. There are some problems with the capture point if someone lags a little bit. The "They are close to throne!" message is handled the exact same as old classic DOTF. Nothing changed there and both the audio and print are triggered by the same script at the same time. There isn't any reason for them to not both be shown/activated unless there is some lag/packet loss.

    The second link is just a screen capture of the first link with inspect element on chrome open. https://i.gyazo.com/d55141c2bdfc43fc7d660591d443ed9d.mp4
     
  13. Rosh+

    Rosh+ US Official Server Admin

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    I usually get pretty good ping, and I only usually play on NA servers.
    Must be something wrong with the first link. I can look up the link in google, and find the picture, but if I take the link you posted, and open it up in a new tab, a new window, or any of that, comes up small.

    Might be just how the different browsers handle the link, I use Firefox.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017
  14. SomeGuy

    SomeGuy Donator

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    Played it for a couple hours, looks good. Except for one big part. It's way too bright everywhere. It feels really fake and odd. Maybe tone down the overall lighting so it's darker and has more contrast between where lamps are and aren't.

    Also saw a guy get stuck in the fed door and he stayed stuck even after it opened.
     
  15. Liniyka_xddd

    Liniyka_xddd EU Official Server Admin

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    I gotta say the map became much much more difficult for imps to defend. If you lose main - rebs can rush straight to the obj and capture it very quickly. If you lose gen - rebs open all those side routes and flank the hell out of imps.

    Also, if you lose main, everyone spawning in fed room is doomed. As an imp you can only get to obj through tjunk, but if rebs are there already, you are trapped.

    Also, imps can't move through right and left route doors anymore unless rebs hack the gen consoles. These door were crucial for escaping from attacking rebels, but you don't have that option anymore.

    This makes playing imps on the new dotf very frustrating on open servers. You lose extremely quickly if your team makes a mistake, and it requires some serious teamwork to actually hold the rebs back. And God forbid a rebel sneaks past your team to the obj - by the time you get there, he will capture the point 10 times over.
     
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  16. MaceMadunusus

    MaceMadunusus Movie Battles II Team

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    Yeah I mentioned this elsewhere. I changed the compile to add bounce lighting (basically baked global illumination) which made it too bright, took the amount of bounces down, multiplied intensity by 75% and it still wasn't quite enough but I wanted to get it out to you guys before battlefront. Expect some tweaks.

    I will be doing some changes to make it easier for imps to defend. I am sure they can survive for a little bit after years of imps having a large defensive advantage.

    I wanted to see if the openness between main and right side allowed for enough maneuverability to leave left side locked. Looks like that wasn't the case and will be one of the things I will be re-enabling.
     
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  17. anomer

    anomer

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    I appreciate the effort put into rework, but I have mixed feelings about it.

    The new dark grey and red color scheme looks much, much worse than the old yellows, beige and light grey. The hangar feels empty. Fed room with its blank walls and weird roof is just ugly.

    I like new windows and courtyard though. The new throne room and hall is great too.

    But what's the point of Gen Room, if the side objective is at it's entrance? Maybe Gen should be right outside the hangar doors, so you have to cross at least part of it going side? And the consoles further inside.

    I love the idea of DotF rework, but this version needs a lot of changes, especially aesthetics. Right now I'd prefer the old version.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017
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  18. Ixin

    Ixin

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    You never fail to amaze me MaceMadunusus.

    Got one suggestion though. Is it possible to add more props like lets say "flags" and such to colorize and fill up some space without affecting performance? I refer to the Side Route, some ropes with flags would make it neat or some organic stuff. This idea pops up because of the BF2 Naboo map.

    You're awesome.
     
  19. Antraxo

    Antraxo Donator

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    Superb job on the map will play it soon but I have to meme a bit ... ;)

    Mod is still not called "Duel of the Fates II" ... SAD!

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Preston

    Preston

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    This is exactly how I feel about the whole map, couldn't put it into words.
     

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