Team Play as Jedi/Sith

Eazy E

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Simply, Jedi/Sith stick to the walls of areas and flanking dont run down the middle (you will take a sniper shot to the back and it ain't nobody's fault but your own).
Gunners stop getting involved in duels against jedi/sith unless you can get behind the enemy, or have a clear shot.

We clear??
 
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Maybe make a teamplay guide?

I see good jedi/sith that can duel and even kill gunners play like retards within a team. Same for gunners, but to a lesser extent. Gunners fast learn the joys of tk points. While people tend to go jedi/sith to actually reduce them and still play actively and effectively. Just watch that push.

And FYI - And anyone that tks with a saber, 8 times out of 10 is a noob or did it on purpose or just got too greedy.

Basic Tactics 101 for Jedi/Sith:

1. Push any rockets/nades thrown at you. Unless you don't need to - won't harm you or your teammates and you're facing a wall of multiple enemy pushers - don't be a dumbass and waste your force so they can push it back to you. Remember they can't push a nade thrown by their own team UNLESS you push it first.
(Note - you don't typically want to be standing still when you do this. Be mindful of gunners that can aim and saberists that are close enough to slash.)

2. Learn how to aim your push. You can control where the nade bounces back. That includes re-directing even angled bounces from the walls to the origin of the nade throw. It's not hard. Figure it out! So many push spammers and more than half can't even aim the nade back properly in any general fashion.

3. Practice being mobile and learn how to be a man. Most of you lack balls.

Standing still or holding block like turtles behind cover or not - dead meat unless you're a deflect user or going to ninja. Because I will kill you after awhile:)
Be you mine enemy or ally. You will die. Indirectly of course. Those tk points really ruin the game for me.:(

When rushing forward and you meet an enemy saberist the very first thing to do when you have gunner support???, for your own safety and lack of theirs, is to jump over them and have their back facing the wall of gunners that ---!!!didn't tk!!!!--- you at that point since you're still alive. Yay:)

Now, while this is an easy maneuver it comes with some risk as now you're back is facing either the enemy teams gunners or the saberist who may have turned around to chase and slice you. Here is where basic skill with footwork and situational awareness come into play. Pull it off and you can break through the enemy's team defences and wreak havoc. Now I consider this one of the more key moments of effective teamwork between good players.

They take advantages of openings from the distractions. Surviving both teams is half the fun and the real measure of a good jedi/sith. One of them anyway.

====================================================================

Basic Tactics 101 for Gunners:

1. Don't throw nades directly at Jedi/Sith unless you know they're low on force/don't have Push/are unlikely to push in time.
The latter requires judgement and the ability to time and recognize moments of opportunity.

These moments include - when they swing or engage in combo's. Have just pushed. Used Lightning.
Depending on how far away you are(you don't want to be too far) It'll be too late for them to react or properly aim/return your nade back to harm you or your team.

Note - There is only one legit time to throw nades directly at the enemy saber force. And its risky but everyone does it:)
And that is when - When you have jedi/sith backup.
First, make sure they have push.
2nd - close your eyes and cross your fingers and hope they're even average so that they can push back in time.
3rd - Pray to whatever Gods will listen.

2. Aiming/shooting at jedi/sith/gunners. You want to do your best to avoid teammates moving into your line of fire. Shoot when the enemy saberist swings if you think you can hit him. Make note of the way your teammate saberist is moving so you can better avoid hitting him. Or not, depending on how useful it is its either better to not care or to move on to another target.

3. Deflect users - shoot at the feet, its much harder to deflect back.

4. Cover fire/pre-fire - For the latter you'll be accused of wallhacking sometimes but its basic common sense. Gee, where can the enemy possibly be hiding? Where will he be coming through? Wasn't he just there?

Cover fire - is under utilized for some reason. Mayhap the horde of sabers that you find yourself amongst...
It's still a great way to suppress and keep the enemy team at bay/kill kill kill.

------------------------

Just some Basic Tactics that for some reason, aren't used so much by players new and not. :)
 
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You forget about snipers, and how if a gunner doesnt try to suppress the sniper. He wont get a chance to get into cover. And most of the time from what ive experinced. The sniper is always on the shoulder of the saber user on the gunners perspective. And it drives me nuts how they are always in that kind of spot.

The same thing applies. Everyone wants jedi/sith to move to the side not realizing that they would also be blocking snipers. Which means either the jedi/sith need to stay in the middle or move to the side that snipers are not at all. Unfortunately, snipers usually aren't dumb enough to stand still in the same spot. Either way, if no shot is available, don't shoot.
 

GoodOl'Ben

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Jedi/Sith as a team player 101:
  • Generally traverse at the sides of the rooms to allow maximum coverage for your gunners.
  • Use Push/Pull a lot.
  • Don't try to engage a Jedi/Sith when you see him being chased down by gunners. You're effectively saving the Jedi/Sith this way. Push/Pull them down instead.
  • Use Force Sense, try to communicate your sightings to your team.
  • If you see a gunner about to get hit by an enemy lightsaber, try standing next to the gunner - you might end up blocking the lightsaber and saving your friend.
Jedi/Sith as a team player ADVANCED:
  • Lead the charge.
  • Do your best to force enemy force-users out of position to be killed by your team.
  • When you see a grenade/rocket, stop and think: "Does this need to be pushed or should I let it go?"
  • Go for secondary objectives. This is especially for Jedi with Speed.
 
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Jedi/Sith as a team player 101:
Jedi/Sith as a team player ADVANCED:
  • When you see a grenade/rocket, stop and think: "Does this need to be pushed or should I let it go?"

Good one. I forgot about this in my original reply. You don't need to push everything.
 

Fletcher Time

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I really like the conversations this post is starting. I will edit the original post with all the new things you guys brought up. Thanks!
 
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Im sorry, I don't play on a server thats 24/7 one map.
That is kinda your problem, and need to stop playing dotf.
Really dude? Because I play most of a time a Map it's MY FAULT the gunners are idiot?
So it's also MY FAULT if I get shot in the back by gunners even on the side of the passage in Hoth? In DeathStar? In every other freaking map?

Not it's not MY problem, it's A problem that really need to be adressed. Why a guy playing all map would have the right to complain about that and not a guy who happen to join when the map is always the sames? Most of the time it's LunarBase, Dotf, EchoBase, Deathstar and that's it. I can barely remember the others maps because they appear so "much"! /sarcasm
 
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Another useful support tactic jedi can utilize is simply using their presence to affect the enemy. Gunners start focusing on you a bit when you're closer, making it easier for gunners and snipers to shoot them. If the enemy gunners are not in line of fire, it's simply easier for gunners to advance. Putting yourself in a spot that makes it awkward for sith to keep you off their gunners while trying to not show their back to your gunners.
 
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Really dude? Because I play most of a time a Map it's MY FAULT the gunners are idiot?
So it's also MY FAULT if I get shot in the back by gunners even on the side of the passage in Hoth? In DeathStar? In every other freaking map?

Not it's not MY problem, it's A problem that really need to be adressed. Why a guy playing all map would have the right to complain about that and not a guy who happen to join when the map is always the sames? Most of the time it's LunarBase, Dotf, EchoBase, Deathstar and that's it. I can barely remember the others maps because they appear so "much"! /sarcasm
You are playing on a map known for sniper wars, and you complain about getting sniped by your teammates.
You put yourself in that environment, if you disagree that its still not your fault you can always ask LoU.

Good players don't blame others, they accept responsibility for their own actions and try to improve themselves instead of putting effort into letting other people know how bad another person is.

So yeah really dude, stop playing dotf 24/7.
 
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As pointed out by several people here, the map doesn't really matter. The point of this thread was to provide insight on how jedi/sith could play better with their team. There are issues on both sides of the court for gunners and jedi/sith. Whether a person plays a map 24/7 is irrelevant.
 
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Yesterday I went down a bridge, jumped up to the side, pushed once, rolled, kill 3 gunners(only one was knocked down), 1 sith(who pushed as I swung), pushed a mando off a ledge to his doom and then walked humped the closest body as the remaining gunners fled back to spawn.

1 vs 8? and all I did was strafe side to side, jump, hold block momentarily, push, roll, slice and push.

Yeah, they were mostly noobs and I'm awesome but it was ridiculous.:)

First, they should have never let me close the distance so easily. The gunners should have firing at me the whole time as I was the only enemy on their screen. Even if I wasn't its only appropriate to pay some attention and send some fun-fire my way. 2nd was some of the sith should have been upfront. The mando should have used his jp to flank me.

Instead - well, its fun to get kills so easily but too often do you find yourself on a team like that. And its hard to carry when the enemy team has some decent players. Basic tactics would have at least stopped me after my first kill.

-------------------------------------

More basic tactics:

Gunner/Saber Teamwork:

Gunners shoot at saber dude
Support jedi/sith wait until he pushes/jumps/received enough fire to be vulnerable to force...while he isn't holding block.
So determine when he's best low on force and then push when there is an opening.
Use your eyes, see how close he is and what he's doing - ull figure out when he's low with just a tiny bit of practice.
Do not push mindlessly and immediately stop if push didnt work while he wasn't holding block and there is no gunner or the gunner is missing horribly.
Use ur saber in that event.

Force focus - also does wonders.

Team Positioning:

People like to chat and jerk each other off. No. Just no.
Getting into position is important. Wait too long and you have a stampede.

Sabers should be up front or in the middle to provide distraction and protection via sabers or force.
Snipers should remain in cover while reinforcement classes typically push.

Note, you don't have to do this. It's just standard strategies that work...
Play to you're classes strengths.

------------------------------------

Basic guide to 2 vs 1:

2 Sabers vs 1saber - simple tip = 2 enemy combatants, one in front, one behind you. That's an annoying position to be in.
Simple solution - run in between them, be conscious of you're back and their range - turn around, Amazing! They are not both in front of you.
You went from being sandwiched to - Rolling the Sandwich. In tribute to the stuffed meat.

2 gunners, 1 saber:

Do the above in reverse. One gunner should be circling to get to his back while the other remains in front and shooting. Simple, easy, why aren't you doing it!?

1 saber, 2 gunners:

Close the distance with one while trying to keep the other at least to your side. Try to back one into a corner or somwhere where there's cover. Kill quicky and then turn around to block the loon firing at your back.

Bonus points for style if you have one tk the other. Usually all you need to do is charge and then pretend you're about to attack but really just jump and flash the middle finger when suddenly the line of fire that had been streaming towards you now hits the dude in front:)

2 sabers, 1 gunners:

Let's just say one will push while the other sabers. If one misses and you're pushed out of range, they typically just switch to whoevers closest to saber while the other pushes from range.

Solution Tip and Trick: Tap dance. Use the enemy's push to be moved out of sabers attack range. Most will wait for you to run. The trick is to run just when one swings and then hold walk immediately while the other pushes.

Pick who you want to shoot at and wash, rinse, repeat.
Using a high rof weapon its important to note that you should alternate with primary fire to conserve ammo. e-11 is great in this regard and primary fire, while a slower rof, is a tad faster/stronger/whatever.

-------------------------------

Stupid teammates.

Function as fodder and bait. If you have the patience to misuse them that is.
Give them a chance, say 1 or 2 rounds to prove their worth. When they fail, you know what you have to do.

Use their 5 seconds of fighting life to your benefit. If you have the aim, use it.
But for more elegant solutions - its ok to sacrifice a teammate as long as you get a kill.
Primary nade, rocket, thermal, snipe, etc.

You can simply just throw it at their backs when they engage teh enemy. The benefit of this is that the enemy can't push *through* people. Yay.
Say srry and hope they believe it.

Repeat as needed.

Another trick and tip for camping noob teammates is to kick, I prefer flying kick:) them into the open. It's most often jedi/sith you do this to...but if you have the oppurtunity to use a gunner, DO IT! They are the perfect bait for enemy saberists. They'll be salivating and slipping their own drool in the rush to get the kill.

Fire, nade, rocket, snipe as you please.

Remember, its ok as long as you at least get one kill for the sacrifice.
 
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You are playing on a map known for sniper wars, and you complain about getting sniped by your teammates.
You put yourself in that environment, if you disagree that its still not your fault you can always ask LoU.

Good players don't blame others, they accept responsibility for their own actions and try to improve themselves instead of putting effort into letting other people know how bad another person is.

So yeah really dude, stop playing dotf 24/7.
I complain about getting fired in the back when dueling with a Sith by a guy who can't stop pressing the trigger.
I complain about morons who while you wait on the side to advance closely to push back grenades and make the ennemy gunners leave. I still manage to receive friendly shoot while in the firing line of nobody and not between a gunner and an ennemy.
I complain about it because it happen on EVERY MAP.

Heck today I was Tk by a gunner who had the great idea to fire in the generator way where we we're facing (3 jedi) 2 ennemy sith that tryied multiple time to kill them....

And that guy just kept firing into the pack. So no.

Good players recognize there fault, but they don't accept guys like that who do that continusly round after round.
 

Eazy E

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Yesterday I went down a bridge, jumped up to the side, pushed once, rolled, kill 3 gunners(only one was knocked down), 1 sith(who pushed as I swung), pushed a mando off a ledge to his doom and then walked humped the closest body as the remaining gunners fled back to spawn.

1 vs 8? and all I did was strafe side to side, jump, hold block momentarily, push, roll, slice and push.

Yeah, they were mostly noobs and I'm awesome but it was ridiculous.:)

First, they should have never let me close the distance so easily. The gunners should have firing at me the whole time as I was the only enemy on their screen. Even if I wasn't its only appropriate to pay some attention and send some fun-fire my way. 2nd was some of the sith should have been upfront. The mando should have used his jp to flank me.

Instead - well, its fun to get kills so easily but too often do you find yourself on a team like that. And its hard to carry when the enemy team has some decent players. Basic tactics would have at least stopped me after my first kill.

-------------------------------------

More basic tactics:

Gunner/Saber Teamwork:

Gunners shoot at saber dude
Support jedi/sith wait until he pushes/jumps/received enough fire to be vulnerable to force...while he isn't holding block.
So determine when he's best low on force and then push when there is an opening.
Use your eyes, see how close he is and what he's doing - ull figure out when he's low with just a tiny bit of practice.
Do not push mindlessly and immediately stop if push didnt work while he wasn't holding block and there is no gunner or the gunner is missing horribly.
Use ur saber in that event.

Force focus - also does wonders.

Team Positioning:

People like to chat and jerk each other off. No. Just no.
Getting into position is important. Wait too long and you have a stampede.

Sabers should be up front or in the middle to provide distraction and protection via sabers or force.
Snipers should remain in cover while reinforcement classes typically push.

Note, you don't have to do this. It's just standard strategies that work...
Play to you're classes strengths.

------------------------------------

Basic guide to 2 vs 1:

2 Sabers vs 1saber - simple tip = 2 enemy combatants, one in front, one behind you. That's an annoying position to be in.
Simple solution - run in between them, be conscious of you're back and their range - turn around, Amazing! They are not both in front of you.
You went from being sandwiched to - Rolling the Sandwich. In tribute to the stuffed meat.

2 gunners, 1 saber:

Do the above in reverse. One gunner should be circling to get to his back while the other remains in front and shooting. Simple, easy, why aren't you doing it!?

1 saber, 2 gunners:

Close the distance with one while trying to keep the other at least to your side. Try to back one into a corner or somwhere where there's cover. Kill quicky and then turn around to block the loon firing at your back.

Bonus points for style if you have one tk the other. Usually all you need to do is charge and then pretend you're about to attack but really just jump and flash the middle finger when suddenly the line of fire that had been streaming towards you now hits the dude in front:)

2 sabers, 1 gunners:

Let's just say one will push while the other sabers. If one misses and you're pushed out of range, they typically just switch to whoevers closest to saber while the other pushes from range.

Solution Tip and Trick: Tap dance. Use the enemy's push to be moved out of sabers attack range. Most will wait for you to run. The trick is to run just when one swings and then hold walk immediately while the other pushes.

Pick who you want to shoot at and wash, rinse, repeat.
Using a high rof weapon its important to note that you should alternate with primary fire to conserve ammo. e-11 is great in this regard and primary fire, while a slower rof, is a tad faster/stronger/whatever.

-------------------------------

Stupid teammates.

Function as fodder and bait. If you have the patience to misuse them that is.
Give them a chance, say 1 or 2 rounds to prove their worth. When they fail, you know what you have to do.

Use their 5 seconds of fighting life to your benefit. If you have the aim, use it.
But for more elegant solutions - its ok to sacrifice a teammate as long as you get a kill.
Primary nade, rocket, thermal, snipe, etc.

You can simply just throw it at their backs when they engage teh enemy. The benefit of this is that the enemy can't push *through* people. Yay.
Say srry and hope they believe it.

Repeat as needed.

Another trick and tip for camping noob teammates is to kick, I prefer flying kick:) them into the open. It's most often jedi/sith you do this to...but if you have the oppurtunity to use a gunner, DO IT! They are the perfect bait for enemy saberists. They'll be salivating and slipping their own drool in the rush to get the kill.

Fire, nade, rocket, snipe as you please.

Remember, its ok as long as you at least get one kill for the sacrifice.


What about 2 girls 1 cup?
 
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Gunners complain about Jedi getting in the way and Jedi complain about getting shot in the back. That's how it was in the start and that's how it will always be as long as this mod is alive.

I'd even go as far as saying "This is how the World works". But everyone has their own share of responsabilities ;o

I've been around for a long time, I always have exclusively played as saber class (long history of JKbase before MB2), and with the experience you learn how to deal with unintentional TKs and position yourself better to minimize the probability ; but even then you can still get rekt by a reckless easy-trigger teammate. Especially those who pewpew spam at saber fights : if you see 2 or more people involved into a melee/saber fight, DON'T SHOOT AT THEM, keep your crosshair on the side/rim of the duel and shoot any ennemy trying to flank, or wait for the duel to end and take advantage of that moment to kill the ennemy if your saberist died, he'll most likely have low FP. Or just shoot at something else.

Forget sticking to the side walls, it's bad advice most of the time, you're easily sniped and it's easier for gunners to focus their firepower at you. If you stay in the middle of a corridor, have a good saber deflect level and aim : the ennemy gunners will quickly realize shooting at you is dangerous ; if you don't have decent saber deflect prepare to use A & D because you'll have some side footwork to do, but prepare to get teamhit if you run left & right, that's not the gunner's fault tho.

But my ultimate advice for positioning is getting a perfect alignement inbetween ennemy gunner(s) > ennemy sith > you, to use the enemy sith as a cover. The ennemies won't shoot at you, you won't have to dodge left/right, and best case scenario that sith is getting TK'd.

And if you see there already are a couple of jedis on the front, don't go block the line of fire more, 2-3 jedis are enough there ; try to go another way and flank the ennemy
 
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I got two really good demos demonstrating gunner and jedi team-play with time stamps and everything.
I sent them to Ben so when he does his commentary over a video, you guys have some better examples.
 
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How do you watch your demos anyway.
It's one of those things I never bothered to learn.
Can't seem to find the info for it. Too lazy tbh.:)
 
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