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I'm throwing this thread up here just to gather some opinions and thoughts on how we can rework or, if no solid alternative is available, replace snipers in MB2. The issue with snipers as it currently stands is that they provide an incredible boost to killing power at any range without requiring more skill to use effectively. Many of them provide one hit kills on body-shots and almost all of them providing OHK on headshot, this is clearly influenced by other FPS/TPS games but doesn't take into account that in MB2, all guns have travel time - and snipers travel faster, meaning they always provide significantly more accuracy and much higher reward for being able to keep your aim on target than other weapons.
It requires the same skill as any other class of gunner but provides significantly more reward with the ability to practically instantly kill any class and if you have taken the time to get your sensitivity setup, you can even flick-shot at point blank to instantly kill a saberist as they swing, with pretty much zero counter-play outside of Grip or Lightning, both of which are Sith powers.
Almost all the sniper weapons in this game allow you to kill significantly better gunners simply by holding corners, using flick-shots and then the only option the gunner has versus the sniper is to either hope a saberist can deal with them, use a grenade which can be avoided or hope that their opponent misses at any range.
Even at point blank, the only thing keeping you alive against a sniper is that they can't aim or are stuck using a ruptor while out of position, which at least requires some repositioning - but is no less OP when setup, as it is literally hitscan instadeath.
On that note - the ruptor needs to either be made projectile or it needs to deal MUCH less damage and charge much faster, acting more like a battle rifle than a sniper rifle. Having a hitscan sniper that can instakill on a full charge is one of the most broken things I've seen in this mod.
This is an issue, because it has become meta, there is functionally no reason to take the Westar M5 without a scope or to take the EE-3 at less than Rank 3, with the ruptor and proj basically become a standard for bh/hero respectively as they can then also spend some points for ridiculously cheap sidearms which can out damage or compete with all opponents. But thankfully, those sidearms will only really function at the same range as regular gunner weapons which creates a mostly level playing field.
So, my first proposed solution to this issue is as follows:
Reduce all sniper damage on body-shot, significantly. You should be dealing only slightly more damage than a regular blaster bolt (around 50 - 70 damage) on body-shots, this goes for the proj, ruptor, ee3 scoped & m5 scoped - they should all be dealing roughly the same damage on body-shot and it should not be a viable way to get kills, finishing off a wounded player sure but never taking someone out who has full armor and health in a single strike, not even a soldier.
Personally, I am absolutely fine with headshots rewarding you with an instant kill because, while the only requirement still remains that you need to be able to aim consistently, the area to hit is much smaller and better reflects skill with options for counter play from other gunners in how they approach you, as your target is 1/6th the size of the rest of the body and is much harder hit due to the nature of movement in MB2. Direction changes can, with a target that small, throw off the sniper's aim significantly and the possibility for a gunner to jump at a sniper around a corner or throw a crouch into their movement/strafe pattern, making a headshot nearly impossible without some superhuman prediction.
My second solution is to significantly reduce the damage snipers deal up close, they should have an 'accelerating' damage system, dealing full damage at roughly the full length of DOTF's main corridor from mid doors to the wall that can be seen by imps towards hangar. This sort of system will allow snipers to still function as a lethal threat at long range but hugely penalizes inaccuracy, it means that you either have to be consistently accurate or sniper will not be rewarding for you. This sort of system will be rewarding players that can consistently land shots at long range while penalizing those who use it to cover corners and doorways.
This sort of system also encourages snipers to play like snipers - you can't simply hold a corner and expect to get easy instant kills on anyone who tries to push you, you must give ground or switch to your sidearm when combat gets close and personal. I think out of all three options, this is the best one for everyone involved.
The third and final solution is the most drastic and rather than being a genuine one, only a last resort if we really can't come up with any other changes, and that would be to remove snipers from open mode. Replace them with some more unique pieces of kit, I can't say what - but stuff like the Disruptor Cannon from single-player JKA but with a massively increased cooldown/travel time could be nice to see amongst other things, basically, give BH and Hero some more 'experimental' and out there equipment if the steps to remove snipers from these classes are taken.
Mandalorian sniper in this solution, just change it to function like an A280 in scope - a burst fire weapon, the M5 sniper should be completely removed - it doesn't need to be there when rank 2 M5 makes the gun pinpoint accurate anyway, you don't even have to add anything to replace it.
It requires the same skill as any other class of gunner but provides significantly more reward with the ability to practically instantly kill any class and if you have taken the time to get your sensitivity setup, you can even flick-shot at point blank to instantly kill a saberist as they swing, with pretty much zero counter-play outside of Grip or Lightning, both of which are Sith powers.
Almost all the sniper weapons in this game allow you to kill significantly better gunners simply by holding corners, using flick-shots and then the only option the gunner has versus the sniper is to either hope a saberist can deal with them, use a grenade which can be avoided or hope that their opponent misses at any range.
Even at point blank, the only thing keeping you alive against a sniper is that they can't aim or are stuck using a ruptor while out of position, which at least requires some repositioning - but is no less OP when setup, as it is literally hitscan instadeath.
On that note - the ruptor needs to either be made projectile or it needs to deal MUCH less damage and charge much faster, acting more like a battle rifle than a sniper rifle. Having a hitscan sniper that can instakill on a full charge is one of the most broken things I've seen in this mod.
This is an issue, because it has become meta, there is functionally no reason to take the Westar M5 without a scope or to take the EE-3 at less than Rank 3, with the ruptor and proj basically become a standard for bh/hero respectively as they can then also spend some points for ridiculously cheap sidearms which can out damage or compete with all opponents. But thankfully, those sidearms will only really function at the same range as regular gunner weapons which creates a mostly level playing field.
So, my first proposed solution to this issue is as follows:
Reduce all sniper damage on body-shot, significantly. You should be dealing only slightly more damage than a regular blaster bolt (around 50 - 70 damage) on body-shots, this goes for the proj, ruptor, ee3 scoped & m5 scoped - they should all be dealing roughly the same damage on body-shot and it should not be a viable way to get kills, finishing off a wounded player sure but never taking someone out who has full armor and health in a single strike, not even a soldier.
Personally, I am absolutely fine with headshots rewarding you with an instant kill because, while the only requirement still remains that you need to be able to aim consistently, the area to hit is much smaller and better reflects skill with options for counter play from other gunners in how they approach you, as your target is 1/6th the size of the rest of the body and is much harder hit due to the nature of movement in MB2. Direction changes can, with a target that small, throw off the sniper's aim significantly and the possibility for a gunner to jump at a sniper around a corner or throw a crouch into their movement/strafe pattern, making a headshot nearly impossible without some superhuman prediction.
My second solution is to significantly reduce the damage snipers deal up close, they should have an 'accelerating' damage system, dealing full damage at roughly the full length of DOTF's main corridor from mid doors to the wall that can be seen by imps towards hangar. This sort of system will allow snipers to still function as a lethal threat at long range but hugely penalizes inaccuracy, it means that you either have to be consistently accurate or sniper will not be rewarding for you. This sort of system will be rewarding players that can consistently land shots at long range while penalizing those who use it to cover corners and doorways.
This sort of system also encourages snipers to play like snipers - you can't simply hold a corner and expect to get easy instant kills on anyone who tries to push you, you must give ground or switch to your sidearm when combat gets close and personal. I think out of all three options, this is the best one for everyone involved.
The third and final solution is the most drastic and rather than being a genuine one, only a last resort if we really can't come up with any other changes, and that would be to remove snipers from open mode. Replace them with some more unique pieces of kit, I can't say what - but stuff like the Disruptor Cannon from single-player JKA but with a massively increased cooldown/travel time could be nice to see amongst other things, basically, give BH and Hero some more 'experimental' and out there equipment if the steps to remove snipers from these classes are taken.
Mandalorian sniper in this solution, just change it to function like an A280 in scope - a burst fire weapon, the M5 sniper should be completely removed - it doesn't need to be there when rank 2 M5 makes the gun pinpoint accurate anyway, you don't even have to add anything to replace it.
Right, now that lot is up here, I'd love to have some discussion going - obviously, be courteous.
I have no doubt stepped on some toes in making this thread but I do hope we can get along and debate, see what works and what could be changed to make sniper vs gunner gameplay more fair - because right now, the sniper only loses if he makes a mistake or if his aim is bad, it matters not whether he is up close or at range, the ability to accurately flickshot or not is the only thing which decides whether or not the gunner will survive to fight the sniper on relatively even terrain, though even that is up in the air as some players will just flickshot at 5 - 10 meters distance using a proj/ee3 scoped/m5 scoped as well.
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