Real talk, the future of MBII and ...

[MaceMadunusus]

I would at least put to poll whether there should be an option to remove the time and life limit for the duel mode. If that passes consensus with the player base and development team, then you can put it up on your checklist.

That has been done several times, removing timelimit has won. This isn't a democracy though.

 

[Crusader]

"If that passes consensus with the player base and development team." Who is the third party that also must be pleased?

 

[Nex]

Just cleaned it up a little bit more.

Once again, guys:
DO NOT posts any insults or offensive comments, especially racist ones.
DO NOT make it personal in any way.
This thread is about timelimit (and some other stuff SeV mentioned in OP), so stick with it.
Discuss ideas, not people.

Clean harder. Why is he allowed to still have insults published? Why so biased? You remove my non offensive posts yet leave these untouched:

cuz, some brainless twat claims that's more skilled than what we have now? Validate that and you validate your...less than intellectual prowess imo

 

[MaceMadunusus]

"If that passes consensus with the player base and development team." Who is the third party that also must be pleased?

Should have clarified more. It likely wont pass the development team, as those with the most say currently (Spag, Ben, Viserys) as far as I know have already said they don't want to do it for various reasons of their own. So if the people who control what the focus is (mod leads - which are those 3) don't want to do it, then they aren't going to allocate resources to it if they think resource allocation is better spent on other things regardless of what the rest of the community or defelopers think. It isn't a democracy.

 

[GoodOl'Ben]

Should have clarified more. It likely wont pass the development team, as those with the most say currently (Spag, Ben, Viserys) as far as I know have already said they don't want to do it for various reasons of their own. So if the people who control what the focus is (mod leads - which are those 3) don't want to do it, then they aren't going to allocate resources to it if they think resource allocation is better spent on other things regardless of what the rest of the community or defelopers think. It isn't a democracy.

Just worth pointing out I am currently out of the development team to avoid burning myself out.

This is extremely sad to read.
I don't believe in restricting gameplay, especially in *further* restricting.
That will only leads to disappointment, which, in turn, will make people leave MBII.
You can't force anybody to like what you like.
Today's trands for locking and restricting is cancer .

It is worth mentioning that my views do not reflect the entire team nor are any restrictions like the ones I mentioned being done. I often love to play the devil's advocate.

The restrictive game servers have their uses for ensuring that everyone gets the same game that was intended to be played. The way I would prefer things like these to be introduced into MB2 would be through optional inclusion.

Imagine if we had a player stats tracking system implemented into the launcher. It would be able to store statistics like accuracy, k/d, winrate, classes, builds and bind them to your forum account.

Now what if these stats would only be tracked on "competitive" servers? These servers would essentially be running on a gamemode that cycles through maps via RTV and it would feature class limits to avoid spam.

People who would love to have their statistics tracked and compete in daily/weekly/monthly/yearly leaderboards would flock to these servers.

Now that's a way I'd to see MB2 progress. This would provide more structure to the game experience. An online game is not a game if it does not have enough structure. Otherwise it's just a glorified chatroom. Something like this would definitely boost player morale to play at their best capacity while also keeping the traditional DOTF24/7 hamsterwheel option available for those with the mental capacity of a walnut.

 

[MaceMadunusus]

Imagine if we had a player stats tracking system implemented into the launcher. It would be able to store statistics like accuracy, k/d, winrate, classes, builds and bind them to your forum account.

People who would love to have their statistics tracked and compete in daily/weekly/monthly/yearly leaderboards would flock to these servers.

Now that's a way I'd to see MB2 progress.

You are not the only one that thinks that way:

 

[Crusader]

Should have clarified more. It likely wont pass the development team, as those with the most say currently (Spag, Ben, Viserys) as far as I know have already said they don't want to do it for various reasons of their own. So if the people who control what the focus is (mod leads - which are those 3) don't want to do it, then they aren't going to allocate resources to it if they think resource allocation is better spent on other things regardless of what the rest of the community or defelopers think. It isn't a democracy.

That is perfectly acceptable. Perhaps I am being pedantic, but there is a perceptual difference in willingness but lack of resources compared to unwillingness just on the whim of someone else, even if the outcome is the same. I can see why you would not want to prioritise it, especially if a lot of the code is entrained with the time limit as Viserys' stated. It would be a lot of effort for a little change.

 

[GoodOl'Ben]

That is perfectly acceptable. Perhaps I am being pedantic, but there is a perceptual difference in willingness but lack of resources compared to unwillingness just on the whim of someone else, even if the outcome is the same. I can see why you would not want to prioritise it, especially if a lot of the code is entrained with the time limit as Viserys' stated. It would be a lot of effort for a little change.

A good change surely, but it is indeed a lot of work. As someone who often takes on a lot of projects only to drop them once I lose interest, I really can get behind this mentality. When you come home from work, you've done your dishes, cooked some food, maybe even cleaned your house up a bit. Then finally it's time to do that hobby you like so very very much! Modding! Yeah! Then you realize that the task you set for today is going through 5 different scripts that are 5000+ lines each and refactoring and purging and tweaking it so there is no time limit for Duel mode. Suddenly you figure that you'll just play for a bit first. Then you realize it's time to go to bed.

When you do things you don't necessarily feel like doing as your freetime hobby, something is wrong. This is why it's great that the current team is more-so focused on turning pet projects into good improvements for the mod. This maximizes productivity with a low developer count.

Either way, surely a hero will step in at some point and provide an option for this. Perhaps it's one of the current non-devs? Nothing is stopping anyone here from learning programming, applying to the team and changing this.

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

Life is

What you need is to find people that are obsessive, love to code and will weather the storm of criticism from new and old fools alike.

And doesn't mb already have a kind of tracking system? Achievements? Instead of some screenshot once a certain point is achieved, why not an optional display menu showing status results?

How far away am I from that first 9,000 kills again
How many Greedos have I shot?

Adding some more achievements at least couldn't be hard? I don't even know if snipers get one.

 

[cgj26]

Life is

What you need is to find people that are obsessive, love to code and will weather the storm of criticism from new and old fools alike.

And doesn't mb already have a kind of tracking system? Achievements? Instead of some screenshot once a certain point is achieved, why not an optional display menu showing status results?

How far away am I from that first 9,000 kills again
How many Greedos have I shot?

Adding some more achievements at least couldn't be hard? I don't even know if snipers get one.

I always thought of something like that from TF2, a stats menu that tells you what your favorite class is, how many hours you have on each class, etc...

 

[Jediknight Fou]

Mod dies since 1.4 and your biggest problem are statistics...seriously no wonder this mod lose players.
Its more important to fix saber system, saber vs gunner, more improvements for gunner classes and not some useless statistics.
Maybe adding assists to the stats, thats enough.
Or maybe remove these stats from open, and add some kind of point system, there are people which dont care for useless kd.
With the current unbalance in gameplay stats are nonsense anyway.
Also im with sev, there is so much unused stuff and possibilitys for gamemodes.
And ffs stop complainin ppl leave the game, you were warned early enough, but nobody cared.

 

[Smee]

If 1.4 is so drastically unpopular, isn't the logical thing to roll back to a more popular update?

 

[MaceMadunusus]

Mod dies since 1.4 and your biggest problem are statistics...seriously no wonder this mod lose players.
Its more important to fix saber system, saber vs gunner, more improvements for gunner classes and not some useless statistics.
Maybe adding assists to the stats, thats enough.
Or maybe remove these stats from open, and add some kind of point system, there are people which dont care for useless kd.
With the current unbalance in gameplay stats are nonsense anyway.
Also im with sev, there is so much unused stuff and possibilitys for gamemodes.
And ffs stop complainin ppl leave the game, you were warned early enough, but nobody cared.

You didn't understand the point of the statistics post at all. No one said anything about making them over those things. Ben was speaking hypothetically and I posted something from my game which isn't MB2 and I need to add the statistics as I am creating the assets so I don't have to go back and do it later.

None of us said no to new classes, class revamps, new game modes. In fact, that is what people like me want.

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

None of us said no to new classes, class revamps, new game modes. In fact, that is what people like me want.

Give me horde mode and VIP missions.

 

[GoodOl'Ben]

Mod dies since 1.4 and your biggest problem are statistics...seriously no wonder this mod lose players.
Its more important to fix saber system, saber vs gunner, more improvements for gunner classes and not some useless statistics.
Maybe adding assists to the stats, thats enough.
Or maybe remove these stats from open, and add some kind of point system, there are people which dont care for useless kd.
With the current unbalance in gameplay stats are nonsense anyway.
Also im with sev, there is so much unused stuff and possibilitys for gamemodes.
And ffs stop complainin ppl leave the game, you were warned early enough, but nobody cared.

We are not discussing game balance in this topic. That is a separate subject. We are discussing additional game modes and removing time limits here. The general consensus pretty much among everyone involved is that it would be nice to have modes like CTF, Capture Point and Payload to increase variety. Nobody disagrees with removing the time limits for dueling either, but at the moment the way things are programmed in, it's a lot of effort to make it happen.

As for added player statistics support: it would be a nice way of promoting a more competitive game mode. A competitive game mode would also help when it comes to truly finding huge imbalances. Statistics would also help with balancing the game because we could base opinions on more than just hunches and how it feels.

Also it's worth pointing out me and Mace both are not in the developer team anymore and are speaking only for ourselves.

VIP missions

Jabba and Tantive.

 

[SeV]

@Viserys. I've been bringing up removal of time limits since it was first introduced. Back then it surely wasn't a lack of resources that forced the devs to not implement it. It has always been about the stupid idea of limiting people's freedom, and also to a very large degree the fact that people like mace hate RP'ers and don't want the mod to cater to them. I find it revealing that mace says he thinks dueling mode should be removed. It's incredibly appaling to see someone who believes that restricting the freedom of players is a way to bring life to a mod, when infact it is the restrictions that choke the life out of this mod. MBII has never been as fun for me as it was pre-time limit and I want to ask you guys just how many vets are left? We're stuck on a crap patch 1.4.3 and 1.4.4 should NOT have been pushed (with regards to saber changes). But I digress.

The main point about time limits is this: Previous devs were anti RP, hate RP and locked time limit to kill off the RP community that, at the time, existed in MBII. What mace says about restrictions being good for a game is only true for specific types of games and Moviebattles is not a game that has benefitted from such restrictions. If you allow server owners to choose time settings, the game won't implode, the community won't spliter and doomsday will not be upon us. @mace your belief that this will happen is nothing but delusional thinking and any arguments that mace has made against removing time limits sound more like excuses than anything else.

Viserys point about the lack of man-power maybe valid, I don't know how much fiddling would be required to extend the time limit of dueling mode, for example. I imagine it isn't terribly hard and tempest could probably get it done easily. What's to stop you from spending an hour or two on uncapping time limits in FA? Doing just this is what the RP'ers you've scared away would want, if we assume they will come back, which I don't think is possible unless someone goes out there and advertises to them the possibility. Put all the RP stuff aside though.

It seems as though people are worried that giving people freedom means that the community will hang itself. Oh what a wonderful point of view you have huh? The community is so stupid that if we can choose our own time limits we will make 100 servers with 2 hours per round and the game will die cuz there'll be 1 player per server. Totally logical assumption right Mace? But no, allowing for people to set the time limit for open at 6 minutes, what a horrible option to have. You'll be giving children more rope with which to hang themselves. The dictator must protect the ignorant children by ruling with an iron fist and restricting player freedom.

Only reasonable argument against adding timelimit stuff has come from Viserys. A lack of coding power is a reasonable argument against changing the overall hard-coded timer. But if we step back a few years to a time where we have many coders and have the argument at that time, it will be about these ugly things that mace keeps bringing up like 'RP is cancerous dun want in muh gehm' and 'players are too stoopid to customize their servers, we must force them to play the way we think they should play bcuz we know whats best for the ignorant children who play our game.' -We're all grown up and capable of deciding for ourselves what to play. Where have all the vets gone? Did they get tired of 24/7 dotf and stale open mode? Did they stop playing cuz very bad dueling patches were pushed? Yes and yes.

The new update needs to come out fast and it needs to be good with regards to dueling. More and more people stop playing, including myself cuz 1.4.4 is so bad. Not enough coding power for an over-all timelimit removal, fine. Pop it in duel mode with the free join stuff and see how that goes. But I bet the community will explode and we'll all kill ourselves off bcuz its suddenly possible to set the time-limit of dueling mode to more than 5 minutes. We're all just stupid children who can't handle any degree of freedom or ability to customize our own servers. We need the hardened steel rod of the dictator showed down our gagging mouthes to keep us from biting our own tongues and bleeding to death. Atleast thats how every argument of Mace feels to me.


For me it simply boils down to this.

For a game like MBII, freedom is good, restrictions are bad. With freedom comes an increased playerbase and more options/fun for the existing player base, with restrictions come an evershrinking core of people who enjoy the specific restricted game modes allowed on official servers. And that small core will keep shrinking as open mode gets stale and they get bored of the dumb ass 1.4.4 dueling system. This is why I stated that a revolution is necessary.

I remember reading someone saying that MBII shouldn't be based around fun. That is one of the most retarded things I've ever read. The only reason why someone would play a game like MBII is to derive from it some sort of personal fun. You don't go pro in MBII and earn dollars like in CSGO or Dota or whatever, you can't stream MBII and expect a big audience to donate you money. ALL you can get from playing MBII is fucking fun, and if you don't make design decisions based on making the game FUN over anything else, then I can't see any path other than one leading to destruction for this mod that I love.

Mace makes it seem like there's alot of people on the side of the dictator that wants to restrict and control everything. I am convinced, partly due to previous polls, that the majority of the MBII community would like less restrictions as per my suggestions and prescriptions in the OP.

That's it for now. Don't go closing this thread in an untimely manner please.

Edit by Viserys: post censored. Be civil please

 

[FRANK LAMPART]

I just want DOTFV2

Anyway, I don't think the devs can remove the time limit. It's hard-coded into the JKA siege mode (which is what MB2 is).

I believe server owners should have more freedom to implement what they want, but also that means having the option to turn things off and change things in the first place. This is so people can play on servers they prefer (i.e duel mode with no time limit). Ideally, this is how it should be but because of the low population it wouldn't work. People only connect to the servers that have the most population regardless.

 

[Viserys]

guys, give me 3 more collaborating, enthusiastic, good coders, and I'll do wonders.

until then, I shall spend my time hugging players ingame.

 

[MaceMadunusus]

Mace has an incredible capacity to spam utter bullshit whenever the topic of timelimits comes out, but don't let that discourage you from replying. He makes it seem like there's alot of people on the side of the dictator that wants to restrict and control everything. I am convinced, partly due to previous polls, that the majority of the MBII community would like less restrictions as per my suggestions and prescriptions in the OP.

Ben, Spaghetti and others, brought up similar points but you only focus on me. Who is biased here?

Go learn something about the purpose of adding restrictions in game design before coming back at me saying I'm delusional and there is no reason for them. You aren't basing those statements in fact at all.

I give you evidence of Games with similar objectives (Team Based, Objective Based, Assault/Defend style) that restrict timelimit, and apparently I am wrong even though those people have been doing this for longer than you or I have been on this earth. They know what they're talking about and they have timelimits for a reason. Zero evidence to back up your claims aside from anecdotal, subjective crud.

Edit by Viserys: post censored. Be civil please.

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

Jabba and Tantive.

AI controlled vip missions are just the worse.

Make me jabba, then we got a game.