Real talk, the future of MBII and ...

[SeV]

Why I think forcing people to play a certain way is wrong.

MBII has always been a small mod with a small community, so the idea of catering to a specific audience by pushing a specific playstyle onto people in order to garner a larger following seems like faulty logic to me.

Just to get everyone on the same page here, I'm talking specifically about the base idea for MBII. Many years ago, at the dawn of MBII a certain man had an idea. Star wars counterstrike, or something similar to that. A team based, competitive star wars mod. MBII has since evolved from that idea. We rarely if ever see competitive 5v5 or 6v5 pugs or tournaments anymore and I think the premise of limiting people to this kind of game is bad. Why can't you have an FFA gamemode like in Jedi academy, quake style with mandalorians flying around and jedi/sith and whatever just making chaos on a clusterfucky big map with infinite respawn, free join and so on? Why can't you uncap the time limit and allow people to modify the FA class file to make RP servers and help all those people desperate for a good Jedi academy mod in which to RP with actual saber combat? In other words, why can't we utilize the full potential of MBII? Why must we be limited to playing on dotf in a 5 minute round most of the time? #FreeMBII

Let the community help build the fun in MBII by allowing it free reign with unlimited time. Bring in the CTF gamemode for some fun and variety. Move away from the 5v5/6v6 competitive mindset and move towards a 'this is fun' mindset. MBII has to be a playground, a place to have fun and enjoy yourself. It shouldn't be a place where you autistically play dust2 all day long. Ah, I mean dotf. If we had the possibility of unlimited time, free join, free respawn and CTF game modes... MBII could escape from the boring open mode meta and allow ppl to find fun in MBII again. It would also free people up to do whatever they want instead of forcing them to play open mode or dueling mode. Have an FFA free join JKA style server with duel challenges as a proper dueling mode server instead. This is better. Freedom to join and to leave and to chat and to challenge and forget about limiting the fucking time of rounds.

Don't even bring up the 'but you're splitting the community' argument. It's dumb. Yes, we're a small community. But if we force people to play boring shit and limit their freedom, the community will just get smaller and smaller. I am 100 percent convinced that MBII could've had a community of over 100 active jedi academy roleplayers if it created an unlimited time mode for them and perhaps integrated an RP UI like other mods for JA have done in the past. Instead of having all these RP'ers play MBII, you've pushed them away and forced them to play inferior shit mods with no dueling system, because of the retarded philosophy that the time should be hardcoded to 5 minutes. I've recently seen a move towards more freedom in MBII and I think this is the only way to treat the mod from now on. Let's be done with pushing a strict 6v6 competitive meta when no-one fucking plays it anymore, and let us instead focus on how to have fun with big team battles, CTF, free join unlimited time dueling and RP and open up the fucking game so people can experience how fun it is to play with the FA assets that exist in MBII. I doubt even 10 players in MBII know what I'm talkin about here. There are so many unused FA assets that can make dueling more interesting, force powers and passives and all sort of shit that gives the game more flavour. Instead of exploring these dimensions, and having fun in FFA/CTF and free dueling modes, we're stuck playing dotf in a strict 5 minute frame with no respawns because 'that is how devs intend it to be'. Well fuck that. Allow people to have fun. Push MBII in the direction where the most fun is to be had.

This is the only way I see of MBII pulling in more people. Open up the game, free the players and take advantage of the legacy we've built together over the years. The players of MBII will fucking organize themselves and play whats the most fun. Uncapping time limits, adding CTF and FFA style dueling free roam and RP support will NOT split the community, it will free the community.




Now let me hear your thoughts on this. I just decided to make this thread because I am tired of the endlessly repeating cycle. I want revolution and freedom for MBII, so that we may break the shackles that bind us and have fun in a game we love.

 

[takuta pls]

free roam FFA in one of those bigass jedi temple maps would be pretty nostalgic, i remember just chilling with a few friends messing with eachother for hours, no time limit/minimal interruptions

mite b coo

 

[Bob-Billy]

"Capture of the flag" from the original JKA , with giant map like Coruscant or Nar Shaddaa

 

[MaceMadunusus]

Lets remove jedi/sith while were at it. Everyone will have much more freedom without being pushed, pulled everywhere or their shots deflected back at them because jedi/sith are asshole meanies. /s

Lets remove reinforcements too because they clearly aren't balanced on soldiers. /s

Lets remove fuel from mandalorian jetpacks because it is clearly an arbitrary rule and unlimited is better. /s

Oh right, removing things that are part of the rules of the game are bad.

If you think removing timelimit frees MB2, youre mistaken. Other gamemodes like CTF, Conquest, Balance of Power, Progressive Siege will do exactly what you wish and guess what? Those are all still time limited in basically every other game EVER. I have been pushing for those actually interesting game modes for a long time and they have my full support. Don't remove timelimit because you don't have a better plan to fix the problem.

CSGO TDM Timelimit: 3 minutes
Unreal Tournament CTF: 10 minutes.
Overwatch King of the Hill/Balance of Power: 6 minutes
Overwatch CTF: 7 minutes
Call of Duty S&D: 2.5 minutes

Professionally made games have timelimits for a reason. If you want to ignore two decades of learning about gamemodes and timelimits from pros then please continue.

Oh hmm, lets be battlefront and add tons of gamemodes. Community complaint pops up: Community fragmentation. Developer response for BF2: We want to fragment community less. HMMMMMMMMMMMM New gamemodes and RP doesn't fragment community you say? RIIIIIGHT.

 

[Noob]

but you're splitting the community

Saying this argument is dumb is dumb.

 

[Crusade010]

That is pretty much what lugormod was back in the day, FFA with different rpg elements to it and while a cross between to two would be really cool to see I imagine it would take a hell of a lot of work

 

[Helix]

I agree with you, yet you can't deny that there are too few coders for the mass of work you want to be done. The last time I checked the code (I was, and still inactive due to IRL reasons), there were only 2 active coders.

2, Carl.

 

[Lessen]

unlimited time, free join, free respawn and CTF game modes

This would be cancerous.

I would try to abstractly explain everything I mean by that but I'm in an uncharacteristically unexplainy mood right now.

 

[Puppytine]

For those who may be interested, I must say this thread is a continue of drama that already happened before, in various threads.
Earlier episodes can be found here:
Full Open game mode
RP servers
Hosting Server - Time limit removal
[SOLVED] - Time

As for my opinion on topic, I confess that I fully support SeV on this matter.
But unlike him, I won't write some abstract, long, hard-to-read-and-understand wall of text
I will try to be straightforward as possible.

Time limit on other people' servers in simply none of your [developers] business.
I'm sure, AOD and BG bosses, as well as any other server owners, can decide on their own what time limit is perfect for each server.
They no need Big Brother to control how they configure their on-line resources.

If you think that duration of round can be enforced by decision of dev team, then I wonder why you do not take a second step.
Why map list is still decided by person who runs server?
Let's lock that option, too!
And players are allowed to install custom replacements packs to override stock MBII models -- what about blocking it as well?

Really cannot understand what makes time limit such special, tabooed setting.
So dangerous that nobody has a right to modify it...

Community fragmentation?
Have ever heard about Full Authentic mode, m8?
But wait, there is more... duel mode!
Community is already segmented for a three parts, cause some players stick to one, favorite game mode and ignore all others.
Other people play two of three modes, and yet another group is into all available MBII game modes.
So configurable time limit does not change situation so drastically.

Also, why fear fragmentation so much?
Do you really think that all those people who want longer rounds are going to play MBII in its current state?
No, some of them just leaved Movie Battles, so instead of fragmentation we have simple shrinking of our playerbase.
Therefore, there would be more people playing MBII, in different modes, if we had time limit unlocked.
Some of RPers would play standard open mode as well, from time to time, but now they are just pissed off they cannot get what they want, which makes them, in turn, simply forget about Movie Battles

I agree with you, yet you can't deny that there are too few coders for the mass of work you want to be done. The last time I checked the code (I was, and still inactive due to IRL reasons), there were only 2 active coders.

2, Carl.

Yes, implementing new game modes requires a lot of efforts, and more active coders.
But unlocking time limit, so every server owner could set it to whatever he likes, needs almost no resources.

 

[Crusader]

Wouldn't the duel mode as it stands benefit from having unlimited lives and time? As far as I'm aware (I don't duel), the essence of the duel server is to just to duel after duel after duel. So much so that in the later revisions, the classes have 6 lives? They can also kill teammates too, right? It's effectively what SeV has described at this point.

If there is no overarching objective on these duel servers other than to practice, then why impose any limitation? The only real reason I can see for an end of round existing in this mode is to change skin, lightsaber and point allocations. Just uncap it all, at least as a quality of living change for the duel mode.

 

[Karus]

Wouldn't the duel mode as it stands benefit from having unlimited lives and time? As far as I'm aware (I don't duel), the essence of the duel server is to just to duel after duel after duel. So much so that in the later revisions, the classes have 6 lives? They can also kill teammates too, right? It's effectively what SeV has described at this point.

If there is no overarching objective on these duel servers other than to practice, then why impose any limitation? The only real reason I can see for an end of round existing in this mode is to change skin, lightsaber and point allocations. Just uncap it all, at least as a quality of living change for the duel mode.

Exactly

 

[AaronAaron]

If anything, you should unlock the time limit for duel mode. I'm sure there are quite a few roleplayers (@Quinto) that would love to be able to fight without having silly lives and having a 10-second break every 5 mins.

Thinking about it, why is there a time limit on duel mode? I remember someone saying there was an issue with the numbers or something, but I'm sure that can be fixed. And im sure im not the only one that gets pissed off when your duel has to end because of the timer. Pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee remove it

 

[MaceMadunusus]

But wait, there is more... duel mode!.

I think duel mode is a perfect example of fragmentation and I have never liked having it for MB2 since there is no team aspect to the play. It works fine for basejka.

Also, why fear fragmentation so much?
Do you really think that all those people who want longer rounds are going to play MBII in its current state?
No, some of them just leaved Movie Battles, so instead of fragmentation we have simple shrinking of our playerbase.
Therefore, there would be more people playing MBII, in different modes, if we had time limit unlocked.
Some of RPers would play standard open mode as well, from time to time, but now they are just pissed off they cannot get what they want, which makes them, in turn, simply forget about Movie Battles

If MB2 is not interesting enough to play without unlimited time/RP, they wouldn't be playing Open Mode anyway. If they already play MB2, like it, and want RP, then nothing changes.

But unlocking time limit, so every server owner could set it to whatever he likes, needs almost no resources.

If you implement it, you need an option for 3-5 minutes only and unlimited. You cannot have anything else because that will cause worse gameplay issues.

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

Tbh. If you're *really* being honest.

This is essentially just....giving up.
This would have been mocked and flamed relentlessly even a few years ago. A gross insult.
But times have changed...and mb...has gotten old.

Let's be clear, doing this will be MB's final gasp, that last effort. Those some will claim are purists will vanish, while the rest will eventually grow bored and move on. Of course this has already been happening.

But this step would be the accelerant, the bell finally tolling officially.

I'm against it. Mostly because I see no point. You can screw around fine as it is and being at the whim of some Server Overlords will only choke the life out of this mod more.

Dotf will outlast mb.

 

[MaceMadunusus]

Let's be clear, doing this will be MB's final gasp, that last effort. Those some will claim are purists will vanish, while the rest will eventually grow bored and move on. Of course this has already been happening.

This is pretty accurate... almost every major mod in JKA lived and once RP came in it marked its death, and those people eventually moved on to another mod year after year... Why does the RP mod change all the time? They aren't interested in staying and will leave once they're bored and run out of stories. Once that happens, mb2s gameplay is already damaged.

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

I disagree because the source mod I came from came out in 2006 and its still getting matches today in the CURRENT YEAR.
If your game is good, people will stick around. Allowing people to have some more creative freedom is not necessarily a bad thing because that allows experimentation. Which can give rise to new ideas and game modes.

Here is a video to prove it.

By allowing users to access the code, they were able to make plugins and do server-side balancing.
Because of that freedom we now have a draft pick plugin, new research trees, and bot coding. So we could have our very own small version of titan fall in the future.

Giving power to the people should never be a last resort.

 

[Pepsi]

Just to get everyone on the same page here, I'm talking specifically about the base idea for MBII. Many years ago, at the dawn of MBII a certain man had an idea. Star wars counterstrike, or something similar to that. A team based, competitive star wars mod. MBII has since evolved from that idea. We rarely if ever see competitive 5v5 or 6v5 pugs or tournaments anymore and I think the premise of limiting people to this kind of game is bad. Why can't you have an FFA gamemode like in Jedi academy, quake style with mandalorians flying around and jedi/sith and whatever just making chaos on a clusterfucky big map with infinite respawn, free join and so on? Why can't you uncap the time limit and allow people to modify the FA class file to make RP servers and help all those people desperate for a good Jedi academy mod in which to RP with actual saber combat? In other words, why can't we utilize the full potential of MBII? Why must we be limited to playing on dotf in a 5 minute round most of the time? #FreeMBII

Let the community help build the fun in MBII by allowing it free reign with unlimited time. Bring in the CTF gamemode for some fun and variety. Move away from the 5v5/6v6 competitive mindset and move towards a 'this is fun' mindset. MBII has to be a playground, a place to have fun and enjoy yourself. It shouldn't be a place where you autistically play dust2 all day long. Ah, I mean dotf. If we had the possibility of unlimited time, free join, free respawn and CTF game modes... MBII could escape from the boring open mode meta and allow ppl to find fun in MBII again. It would also free people up to do whatever they want instead of forcing them to play open mode or dueling mode. Have an FFA free join JKA style server with duel challenges as a proper dueling mode server instead. This is better. Freedom to join and to leave and to chat and to challenge and forget about limiting the fucking time of rounds.

Ehm. Movie Battles is pretty hardcore mod, wouldn't you agree with it? I mean, you need to spend significant amount of time to become at least half decent here, right? So you're proposing to "remove competetive mindset" from very hardcore mod and you think this is gonna work? From my perspective, people who choose by their free will to spend thousand of hours in order to become good player, need to compete with other players, because there's no sense otherwise.

By the way, I can't say that there's some particular competetive mindset that developers have. I mean, there's no support for any tounraments or other competetive activities whatsoever. Even more, developers of this great game are consistent in their aspiration to kill any competetive part of this game. I mean, some time ago they're banished Mads who was the only one who were trying to organize some stuff. I've encountered many problems with devs when I've tried to do some tournament myself. Even now, The Main Leadership of MB2 or w/e basically killed PUG-culture in mb2 by denying the access to official server to me, persone who've organized those pugs.

So yeah, I believe that bringing "this is fun' mindset" is not something this mod needs.

 

[MaceMadunusus]

By allowing users to access the code, they were able to make plugins and do server-side balancing.
Because of that freedom we now have a draft pick plugin, new research trees, and bot coding. So we could have our very own small version of titan fall in the future.

Giving power to the people should never be a last resort.

Entirely different game to MB2, I think it fits better for yours. No one has any intention of doing anything like that with this.

 

[Deleted member 3006]

Any servers that got any of the other gamemodes and maps? all i can find is DOTF 24/7 so i never get a chance to try out anything else.

 

[Spaghetti]

Any servers that got any of the other gamemodes and maps? all i can find is DOTF 24/7 so i never get a chance to try out anything else.

That would be due to your location if your user profile is accurate. I didn't have much of any server choice when I lived there either.

As to the OP? Here's some real talk. There is no magic bullet for "making MBII great again". It's an old mod sitting on top of an old game. Nothing is going to change that no matter what is or is not done. This particular debate about role playing / time limit / FFA is a tired thing that's been brought up over and over again throughout the mod's history. Arguing the point now is the same as arguing it 5 years ago. The situation is still the same. My opinion on the matter is unchanged.

Believe it or not SeV (and I know you know, being a beta tester) you are not the only person to think open gameplay feels stale. That's probably a universal sentiment among anyone who has played the mod for a while. Game modes have been poked at and worked on but actually getting something like that to completion is obviously not something that has happened yet. Projects like that often die with the waning interest of their creators. And that can't really be helped. Such is life.

So anyway, no, I don't think the answer to gameplay diversity in MBII is going to be found in bending over backward to cater to role playing or other unstructured gameplay. Might you have more players in servers? Sure, maybe, for a time. But that's just chasing a statistic. Movie Battles is about the gameplay more than anything else and that will cease to be relevant as soon as you turn it into just another FFA mosh pit with no teamwork or objective.