Perspective from a new player

[{Δ} Achilles]

So I spent a while playing the mod, I haven't played JKJA itself for quite some time, so I was highly interested in it. As a competitive Chivalry MW/DW player, for quite some time, I decided to try and apply what I've known.

(Yes, I know I'm new, however I believe my opinion does make a difference, as I do have significant experience in competitive melee-style games, and I can understand the design choices)

The blaster play, and movement is amazing, the force powers are also amazing (if weirdly imbalanced)... however the saber combat?

Feels absolutely terrible. It is difficult to even see what you're doing, or if you even have had a major effect. I used all of the styles, and it seems like Red is incredibly strong compared to the others. I'll break down the issues in as short as I can

Saber combat feels stale, and feels like a trading match where each player takes turns with a combo, and the one who did the most stamina break, wins. Occasionally winning by way of knockdown. Does not feel fluid or fun at all. Not to mention, I found that I can (using Chivalry footwork) make a Jedi/Sith opponent miss 10, 20, 30 times in a row, but there is literally no way to take advantage of making them swing like fools. If I dodge their attack, and attempt to punish, I am immediately met with them blocking, and if they are using red style, I lose BP. Which recovers incredibly slowly, I might add.

Against multiple opponents, it feels like I'm just trying to trick one into a quick kill, or praying that they kill each other.

For those who haven't played Mount and Blade, or Chivalry: Mount and Blade is incredibly direction based, and Chivalry is incredibly timing based (Unless you have a shield, which uses a similar stamina feature to what MBII was going for, methinks).

I honestly believe the block, should only occur when using the block button, and it should only work for a short time, and if you attack while holding block as the opponent's saber connects, you should be able to stagger them slightly. The BP system should be there to keep people from swinging like idiots, and you should lose BP as you miss attacks, similar to Chivalry. I believe that would work significantly better. Either that, or make attacking expose yourself significantly more, and for longer.

Balance it like a fighting game. If I block your saber, I get +4 frame advantage, and you either block, or you eat a 4 frame faster attack than yours. Blocking and Attacking should be two separate entities in a video game, not simultaneous, and then adding stamina ontop of that. It isn't realistic enough to merit such a system.

Another issue with Saber, is the deflection is flawed in a couple of ways, giving anyone with a blaster a supreme advantage over a single Jedi/Sith target. It takes an incredibly long time for a Jedi/Sith to recover from a failed push. I'd argue 2 competent Commandos are literally impossible to beat as a Sith/Jedi. Bottom line, blasters fire waaaaaay too quickly to be balanced, and this rapid fire lends them to be incredibly strong against melee-type units *EXCEPT* Wookies/SBDs, who appear blatantly overpowered anyway.

On a side note, why is Lightning so bad? If you force push lightning a gunner, and he happened to walk at just the right time, you simply die. You can't recover fast enough to zap him, and I have instances where I manage to land the lightning push, then use the FULL force bar, and still not kill the opponent... Really quite a terrible power.



inb4 git gud u suk u must be bad, as a typical community response.

 

[Supa]

So if it doesn't deflect passively, then how do I deflect while running?

What Preston said. Deflect works, but you can't direct it, that can only be done while blocking, which you can't do while running.

 

[Gamgee94]

And 100+ people in game did little more than teamkill me when I asked questions, ignore me, or otherwise taunt/insult me, which lends itself to frustration and anger. Not to mention, half of your posts were unhelpful nonsense that could have fooled me.

Achilles, regardless of all the foolish things you've said, I would be willing to teach you the ropes. 12 hours is simply insufficient playtime. It took me a year to get comfortable with the mechanics. It's taken even longer to start putting the pieces together. The skill threshold for dueling, and jedi vs gunner, is unbelievably high.

 

[andrew]

accept it

 

[Eazy E]

...


...



...


So hows about you explain it, then? Because between reading the amazingly helpful library, being teamkilled by the amazingly helpful veterans, and being told how vast and majestic this mod is on the forums by people who ALSO don't tell me anything... I'm beginning to think this mod is a cult.

Join the cult... we teach

 

[andrew]

i tried to help, and cleared up some stuff for him

but he continued to compare the game to chivalry and shit on it

an average experience

 

[Preston]

i tried to help, and cleared up some stuff for him

but he continued to compare the game to chivalry and shit on it

an average experience

I tried, my nerk starting breaking tho

 

[M@crobyte]

i tried to help, and cleared up some stuff for him

but he continued to compare the game to chivalry and shit on it

an average experience

I think 9 pages of going back and forth, and an attempt at in-game assistance is more than enough. If a person doesn't want to learn, there's not much we can do. This thread has served it's purpose.

As I stated earlier:

Every class has its own strength and weaknesses. It's up to you if you want to continue to learn and play or drop the mod. It's one thing to come on the forums requesting assistance on how to beat different classes. It's another to say the mod is at fault for your bad gameplay.

This mod has gone through years of re-balancing, and I think the community's kindness is being taken for granted here.

 

[andrew]

on a positive note, he seems to be enjoying the game more at this point so maybe its not hopeless!

 

[Preston]

on a positive note, he seems to be enjoying the game more at this point so maybe its not hopeless!

Just maybe 9 pages wont be a waste of time

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

Skill in one game is irrelevant when you play a different game with different mechanics and gameplay.
I feel as though this must be re-iterated even though it's basic common sense.

And the learning curve is steep for some. You'll find players that never get it. Players that do get it but don't practice it enough. And then the purists who really have too much time on their hands to hone their technique and reflexes so much

wtf, I thought this was one page and I look down and its NINE!? And he played for only 12 hours?

You've been trolled.
He sure talks like someone whose been bitching for years.

I find this entire thread hard to believe and really, some of you are too nice and wholesome for your own good.

If its actually a genuine new player:

Learn the game before you start commenting on balance. You learn the same way as everyone else. By playing. And maybe, if you want, by asking.
And then you play(practice). For a couple of weeks at the least. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

There are no shortcuts beyond getting some saps to tutor you at their own expense day and night


/end thread

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

So, as I said before, I have to give a great thanks to Andrew for helping me in game. It is frustrating and annoying, but has moments of fun in it. I despised it, until I discovered the Mblock mechanic, and how to do it.

As for the rest of you, except maybe Supa and a couple of others, never have I met a more repulsive community, except maybe in a Minecraft server filled with 6 year olds.

The most important take from all of this, a properly built guide detailing as many strategies/gameplay mechanics and how to achieve them as possible, (NOT THE LIBRARY, WHICH IS ALMOST USELESS), would be highly useful, as well as an OFFLINE PRACTICE MODE

Cheers, thanks for the asisstance, those that assisted.

 

[Preston]

So, as I said before, I have to give a great thanks to Andrew for helping me in game. It is frustrating and annoying, but has moments of fun in it. I despised it, until I discovered the Mblock mechanic, and how to do it.

As for the rest of you, except maybe Supa and a couple of others, never have I met a more repulsive community, except maybe in a Minecraft server filled with 6 year olds.

The most important take from all of this, a properly built guide detailing as many strategies/gameplay mechanics and how to achieve them as possible, (NOT THE LIBRARY, WHICH IS ALMOST USELESS), would be highly useful, as well as an OFFLINE PRACTICE MODE

Cheers, thanks for the asisstance, those that assisted.

I think this thread can be summed up to what you just said about mblock... you despised it until you discoverd it.. Just think about that for a second. Sounds similar to what we were all saying pages ago about how 12 hours isnt enough doesn't it? Im sure if you keep playing and learning the game more you will actually start to enjoy it once you understand the basic concepts of the game. And maybe accept that it takes a very long time to fully understand this game....

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

Don't be ridiculous. That's just silly.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

I think this thread can be summed up to what you just said about mblock... you despised it until you discoverd it.. Just think about that for a second. Sounds similar to what we were all saying pages ago about how 12 hours isnt enough doesn't it? Im sure if you keep playing and learning the game more you will actually start to enjoy it once you understand the basic concepts of the game. And maybe accept that it takes a very long time to fully understand this game....

I defer you to: "The most important take from all of this, a properly built guide detailing as many strategies/gameplay mechanics and how to achieve them as could possibly fit into a guide, (NOT THE LIBRARY, WHICH IS ALMOST USELESS), would be highly useful, as well as an OFFLINE PRACTICE MODE"

The difficulty in finding these things out is staggering, for a mod established for *years*. Why would you doubt anything other than pure annoyance/frustration from new players used to other forms of games with significantly more explanation behind them? Especially with how damned long it took to get answers/opinions from people that knew what they were talking about, rather than just 'Play for a few years, then get back to me', which sums up most of your comments. Yeah, I suppose if I play anything for a few years, I'd get good at it. Good advice 10/10 best community.

Thank God Andrew was willing to show me a few things.

 

[Preston]

I defer you to: "The most important take from all of this, a properly built guide detailing as many strategies/gameplay mechanics and how to achieve them as could possibly fit into a guide, (NOT THE LIBRARY, WHICH IS ALMOST USELESS), would be highly useful, as well as an OFFLINE PRACTICE MODE"

The difficulty in finding these things out is staggering, for a mod established for *years*. Why would you doubt anything other than pure annoyance/frustration from new players used to other forms of games with significantly more explanation behind them? Especially with how damned long it took to get answers/opinions from people that knew what they were talking about, rather than just 'Play for a few years, then get back to me', which sums up most of your comments. Yeah, I suppose if I play anything for a few years, I'd get good at it.

Theres lots of guides, the my first day in mb2 guide, the dueling compendium guide, the in game tips when loading a map, the vide tutoriaks by good ol ben, the dueling videos by sev, There are so many resources on how to learn this game. And no, the library is not useless. And again as I said earlier, you honestly cant have some huge guide containing every possible tactic and class build and step to play the game. Because not even many of the devs know every single thing about this game. And there cant really be an offline practice mode be ause mb2 doesnt work with npcs. If you want to practice I'd recommend going to one of the dueling servers. Especially with the map called training. There are standing bots there that you can practice combos and sabering on. And the best way to learn this game is to just play the game. Thats honestly the best way to really learn the fundementals. Because someone can write something on paper, but you really wont learn it unless you practice it yourself in an actual server that is populated. There are few exceptions but for the most part, thats how it is.

 

[Supa]

GoodOlBen has been working on a series of guides for new players. We've forgotten how long this mod has been out and how much has changed. We never really expected to get such a huge influx of players so late in the mod's life, ya know?

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

You're fooling yourself if you think that someone that bitches like that is new to mb.

It could be a Dakorian again.

In one day his post account exceeds Andrews and its all redundant garbage. So many new players and yet only this 1 guy has made a thread thats 9 pages of what exactly?

/end thread. Play more, chat less. Such bitterness from 12 hours of playing? Unlikely. Unrealistic. Lies and Slander.

I say, this fellow seems rather suspicious. No doubt he'll soon volunteer to become a community organizer. Move over Vis.

 

[Preston]

You're fooling yourself if you think that someone that bitches like that is new to mb.

It could be a Dakorian again.

In one day his post account exceeds Andrews and its all redundant garbage. So many new players and yet only this 1 guy has made a thread thats 9 pages of what exactly?

/end thread. Play more, chat less. Such bitterness from 12 hours of playing? Unlikely. Unrealistic. Lies and Slander.

I say, this fellow seems rather suspicious. No doubt he'll soon volunteer to become a community organizer. Move over Vis.

Nah he actually is new. Played with him a few hours ago. Just really arrogant

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

Hey, I'm new to.
How do you get saber?

Get him on ts and then I'll believe it.
But make sure he doesn't have someone else doing a voice-over.
Or that he's using voice-modulating equipment and or recordings.
Any possible sex change operations must be taken into account.
You can never be too careful. Check for an adams apple.

Everybody lies. Trust in that. It's the only truth.

 

[NERO]

Read most of the OP's posts but skipped most of the thread because it's just way too huge.

One thing I want to tell you, Achilles, is that you need to stop expecting to be even decent in this game because you played Chivalry or some fighting games. This is first off, a fucking third person shooter, not a fighting game, not Chivalry, even if Chivalry's engine is a TPS/FPS engine. And you must expect to not be able to play it well.

And don't say any of that "I understand the mechanics of X and Y game so if I don't understand the mechanics of this game it's bad design." That makes absolutely no sense. This is a different game, in a different genre.

EDIT: Another thing I want to say, the way I see it, is that this game was initially made by relatively old-school people, and it's partially kept those design philosophies even after the development team has changed a lot. I'm not saying that you are, but most 'modern' gamers would find this game awful because it's design differs a great deal from how shooters are made these days.

People are really exaggerating when they say it takes years to learn this mod. You can learn the mechanics in a few months, I'm sure of that. It depends how much help you get. With that, just ask and we'll tell you about them. You can even PM me and I can give an in-depth explanation of most mechanics and general tactics about anything. I don't know jack about saber vs saber though since it gets too many changes way too often. And if you play on EU servers, I'm always giving advice to any who ask on those.

A lot of the community is unfriendly and asshats because they've been playing this thing for years and the game's such a big thing to them they can't necessarily relate to a person to whom it isn't such a big thing. But I assure you that if you let the friendlier bit of the community help you, and keep learning with good will, you'll eventually enjoy this game.

I also agree on the library being pretty bare bones. I myself meant to start a video tutorial series for the game about two years ago, but there were so many big changes coming I kinda let it go. I'd still like to do it but I'm afraid that after all the time I spend on it, there will just be more big changes and I'll have to redo many videos constantly. If I had more time, it'd be a different story. But, if Ben is doing it, I don't even have to.