[Minor buff] Wookiee Charge

[LanceOfLonginus]

It came to my attention after a few discussions and testing that Wookiee charge is entirely negated [except for damage] by crouching. This to me seems sort of silly, given that the ability is inherently hard to land due to it's predictable path, combined with the slow movement of the wookiee itself. [Comparison to speed lunge, 5x+ the distance and 3x+ the speed, also instant kill]

I firmly believe that if a wookiee actually lands this ability, they should be rewarded with a knockdown, period. The fact that a wookiee is just outright shafted by a crouching Sith seems off. I do really feel that wookiees [in the sniper/jedi meta of NA] are in need of something that gives them a real reward for landing their key ability in the rage kit.

Not to mention wookiees via lore [don't kill me for realism vs balance, i started balance first but still feel the need to mention this!!!] are like 800 pound balls of muscle that tear off limbs if they get ahold of you. I don't think crouching is going to stop you from getting your butt flung across the room by them.

If it's not feasible to allow it on the non-rage charge, at least provide it to the rage charge. Though in my eyes I'd give it to both, since it works on the gameplay design they're meant to have, brutal upclose beaters... Except they're really not that brutal up close.

 

[Szunti]

Wookie punch with strength 3 do about 28 damage. So it's 4 punch. Btw a max health wookie is also 4 blue/cyan swing. These swings can be comboed for faster rate than punch and has longer range. And these are the weaker styles. On the other hand, the wookie has a pistoI. I don't know if crouching block drains more fp, but still don't think a melee wookie is strong against a sith.

About crouching, I think it makes SBD rather weak against jedi (with support it's good, but than it's more than one player vs a lone jedi), but Cat Lady surely knows better, I'm not really good with SBD.

 

[Damn Polak]

imo the problem in sith vs wook balance isn't the wook, but the damage reduction on sith
it also affects balance vs other classes; consider nerfing red?

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

Wookie punch with strength 3 do about 28 damage. So it's 4 punch. Btw a max health wookie is also 4 blue/cyan swing. These swings can be comboed for faster rate than punch and has longer range. And these are the weaker styles. On the other hand, the wookie has a pistoI. I don't know if crouching block drains more fp, but still don't think a melee wookie is strong against a sith.

About crouching, I think it makes SBD rather weak against jedi (with support it's good, but than it's more than one player vs a lone jedi), but Cat Lady surely knows better, I'm not really good with SBD.

You can hit jedi who are crouching by crouching yourself.
There is a fucked up build I made where I removed all fire power, and put the points in all 3 armors, and had max health.
Then became a Tank sbd who used melee only.

So I would be across the room jerking myself off because the animation on the sbd slap looks like hes jerking off, and just slowly advance while masturbating because sbds are slow. And bob and weave blaster fire trying to get in spunking range.

 

[Szunti]

You hit him and get killed in return.

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

How do you play SBD because I don't even fight jedi without cortosis. It doesn't matter what style they have they cant kill you with one swing against sbd that has max health red style or not.

I can show you how to use the class if you are having problems fighting jedi with it.

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

I thought the conversation was about wookiee charge and how to tweak that particular ability.

You're saying the ability is fine because you have other abilities? So if deflect sucked, itd be fine because you have push?
If yellow style sucks, its fine because you have red?
Glad to know we don't need to ever change any one thing ever again

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

Edit: misunderstood context and cant delete my post for some reason.

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

I was actually replying to your last post on the 1st page

This 2nd page didn't show up until I posted. /still win.

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

I was actually replying to your last post on the 1st page

This 2nd page didn't show up until I posted. /still win.

How is me telling him to put a point in his bowcaster and to not melee a sith a bad idea?
The shoulder barge has its place, relying on it to fight sith is stupid because they can one hit you.

Keeping distance is the safest option, and easy to pull off because you dont suffer from push and pull effects.

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

You're confusing tactics with mechanics. There's a fine line you have yet to grasp my young Beef.

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

No I don't believe I am. Shoot him if hes crouching, he will stop crouching and advance then you can shoulder barge him. Why does the wookie need to shoulder barge everything regardless if the person is standing or sitting?

You never explained that and just posted cocky remarks instead of debunking me and Phelps.

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

The question is not what else you can do but what it, the ""ability"" *should* do.

Some people are apparently intimidated by a wookiee being able to smack down crouch-whores.
One extremely easy tactic vs another that requires some skill and risk.

You measure the risk/reward of the ability. My assessment stands crouchwhores have it too easy and wooks are poor little walking carpets that need to start tearing more limbs off of puny little humans.

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

But why doesn't the wookie just use his gun when the person crouches?
That seems to fix the whole cant him him argument, besides you will build rage if you actually land hits. Then it will be even easier to kill the sith because of the rage mode you built.

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

Why doesn't he use a grenade? Why doesn't the player switch classes?

It's about the ability not what *else* you can do.
The question is should 'charge' knockdown crouching sith. Yes or no.

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

Why doesn't he use a grenade?
Why does the shoulder barge need to knock down crouched people?
You still didn't provide a reason why, and instead you insist on using passive aggressive quips when I have been very courteous and ignoring them.

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

Oh Lord. Keep telling yourself whatever.

I'll repeat one last time:

You measure the risk/reward of the ability and what it's faced up against, in this case crouch-whoring.
You measure risk/reward against each other by how easy it to use and counter.

Crouch-whoring is EZ mode. Even with a low damage saber style the wook is disadvantaged.
That said, if a wook manages to land a charge on some crouchwhore going ez mode, it should knock down imo.

Telling someone to switch to a gun is the same as saying choose another class. It's largerly irrelevant to the discussion of the ability.
It can be tweaked.

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

Switching to a weapon the class has on a default build is not the same as switching to a different class entirely.
http://blocked_domain/jagdpi.png Here is an image to prove this
It's simply using a different tool in your tool box, hammers work better than wrenches when dealing with nails does it not? Why does the wrench need to work like a hammer too?

Oh Lord. Keep telling yourself whatever.

Thank you for proving my point, I would open your build sheet and invest points under patience.
It's very good when dealing with people you consider stupid.

You measure the risk/reward of the ability and what it's faced up against, in this case crouch-whoring.
You measure risk/reward against each other by how easy it to use and counter.

Crouch-whoring is EZ mode. Even with a low damage saber style the wook is disadvantaged.
That said, if a wook manages to land a charge on some crouchwhore going ez mode, it should knock down imo.

This is what I meant when you did not provide an argument, believing in risk versus reward is not an argument but a view point and a opinion.

And the opinion is that its easy to kill wookies because you can crouch.
Which is false a opinion, A wookie that uses a gun makes the crouching irrelevant, and this is a fact.
Not once have you provided evidence to support your argument or disprove that fact.

Instead you proved people play the class wrong frequently and you want to reward them for doing so. Relying on melee only is poor a decision if you don't have the team to properly support your build, and I don't see this happening outside of a competitive game like a scrim or some shit. Making this a viable build in pub games is another discussion in itself, and stretches far beyond one skill.

You can have a level 2 bow-caster if you pull one point from your hp. You can still have strength 3, and fury 2. The 3rd point in health is worth 15 points, and you have 8 points left on the default build.
You can buy fury 1 and 2 which is 17 points in total.
http://blocked_domain/qrnmmu.png
The difference between the usual rage build is that you have 300 hp instead of 400 and a level 2 bow-caster.

If crouching stops the wookie entirely, then there is a problem. However it doesn't, stop trying to shoulder barge a crouched opponent and just shoot him. Stop hammering nails with a wrench and complaining it doesn't work. Use your level 0 pistol if you have too. It will make them stop crouching and advance then making him viable to charge. It is very easy to shoot crouched opponents and a level 0 pistol will work in this instance especially against gunners and if you aim for the head that is if you must insist on pure melee build. You cant remove the pistol regardless of build so don't even suggest this is a kin to switching classes. Just use the tiny hammer if you come across a nail.

You want to make it easier for wookies to kill people, when they are walking tanks to begin with. They don't need that specific tweak. If you actually provide good points, I am willing to side with you but all you have done is provide opinions and sarcasm.

Now im going to arm chair game dev here for a moment so don't take this seriously at all.
Instead of the charge getting tweaked to hit crouching opponets, why not let the wookie arm charge without switching to his fists. He can press his special 2 bind at any given moment regardless what hes holding, this will make the wookie more unpredictable because its easy to read a wookie when hes going to charge you because hes needs his fists out in order to do it. If the charge works regardless of whats equip (still need fury 2) this can give the edge the wookie needs without eliminating the crouching situation. Infact I think the wookie would look cool if he charged a sith and hit him with the butt of his bow-caster. Then shooting the sith while hes prone on the ground.

 

[Damn Polak]

if you pull one point from your hp

that's an interesting idea, never considered it before
since a saberist can instakill a wook, decreasing hp doesn't weaken it much,
but gives 15 more points to spend on charge/nades/ammo/whatever helps against saberists

i was blinded, and at last i saw
spending most points to increase health/shields weakens the player,
by blocking him from using more powerful class builds and feeding him with the feeling of false safety

 

[LanceOfLonginus]

Undoubtedly current best wook build is:
2 bowcaster
2 health
3 strength
2 rage

And charge is still in need of a buff.

 

[Cat Lady]

You can hit jedi who are crouching by crouching yourself.
There is a fucked up build I made where I removed all fire power, and put the points in all 3 armors, and had max health.
Then became a Tank sbd who used melee only.

It won't work against even a medicore jedi - unless he is totally pathetic, you won't kill a thing with it (and yes, AOD is not good place to judge average saberist's skill )

About crouching, I think it makes SBD rather weak against jedi (with support it's good, but than it's more than one player vs a lone jedi), but Cat Lady surely knows better, I'm not really good with SBD.

Crouching yourself allow you to slap a crouching jedi (without knockdown, but he at least get damage and most of the time get slapped outside of his slash range), also makes him panic and run most of the time = knockdown. It need to be a very short crouch, but done properly, it teaches them all right that crouching isn't ''win button'' for jedi against SBD, just as it is as sith against wook.

/Cat Lady