Making New Content is Pointless Now

Status
Not open for further replies.
Posts
74
Likes
76
Clickbate title, but an important topic.

If you make any new content for this mod, expect it to be played for a few weeks and then have it be forgotten for years afterwards. Nothing you make is going to be played because the communities that enjoyed hosting a variety of content have quit this game - being driven out by one-map only servers run by monolithic clans that can't reasonably be competed with at this point.

The problem isn't necessarily the clans themselves, but the one-map only strategy that made these clans so monolithic. The idea of democratically choosing the maps you want to play by choosing the right servers has gone out the window, at least on the US side. You either have the choice of choosing to play on these clan servers and follow their rules and whims for what they'll allow you to play, or fight a battle you can never win trying to encourage the community to play elsewhere.

This one-map strategy has been used for the longest time in this mod. It's seen several iterations over the years, such as Lunarbase 24/7, Cloudcity (old) 24/7, DotF 24/7, or Deathstar 24/7, etc etc., but regardless, the strategy works to improve the population of the clan servers while overall harming the health of the community and undermining the spirit of the mod. The process looks like this:

1.) New players look to find servers that are populated.
2.) They see one-map only servers are populated frequently, either by clan members or by other new players.
3.) They realize that these servers will be consistently populated, and perpetuate the population of these servers based on faith in these servers.
4.) Many new players leave due to lack of experiencing the content they expected. The people who stay either have hope to see more content, or have the strange mentality required to play the same maps forever.
5.) The people who have the strange mentality to play maps forever become members of the clans that host these one map servers, and perpetuate the population of these servers, which entices new players to join them.
6.) The clans that host these one-map only servers become very large and filled with dedicated players willing to perpetuate the one-map servers. Their sheer size becomes impossible for smaller clans and groups of players to compete with, even with great effort and co-ordination.
7.) Clans and groups of players that like playing variety leave, and the community degenerates in their absence, and these single-map style clans become even bigger and have less opposition.
8.) This cycle continues, the health of the community degrades further, and community based options for solving it become implausible.
9.) Further development of the mod becomes more and more pointless, as the majority of the community that now exists doesn't care about new things or playing variety. You'll catch a few new and returning players in the first few weeks, but they'll leave again shortly due to the aforementioned issue.
...
...
...
10.) The game overall suffers a slow death due to entropy.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

In previous iterations of the mod, these server hosting tactics didn't matter much. There was enough of a playerbase around to allow these one-map servers and clans to coexist with variety servers hosted by variety-based clans receiving population from the sheer overflow of people playing. However, this isn't the case now. As time has gone on, people have left, partly due to natural progression of time and people's lives, but also a large part due to the aforementioned issue. There's simply not enough of a community left to either fight back against these clans by choosing to go elsewhere, and most of the dedicated players who would have been willing to have left due to that same issue.

There doesn't seem to be much hope left, for the US side. There's no democratic solution left for saving the US community from entropy due to sheer boredom.
 
Last edited:

Lessen

pew pew
Movie Battles II Team
Posts
1,251
Likes
995
Valid enough complaint although I think you're being a little melodramatic about it, but maybe you're right.

Maybe someone should make some kind of effort to convene some kind of high council of server owners (including TR and AOD,) and try to get all of them to make some kind of humanitarian pact to run rotation servers instead of one-map servers. :p

Either that or the devs should play the tyrant card and aggressively filter their server list to only contain rotation servers, but that would piss server owners off, so it's probably a terrible idea. But maybe not. Maybe it'd work out...................... :confused:

Personally I only rarely go to monomap servers, partly because they're generally overpopulated and partly because I want map variety, so I put the idling time in to try to populate other servers.
 

StarWarsGeek

Internal Beta Team
Posts
497
Likes
403
I feel like someone posts a thread about this at least once a year, but I see RTV/rotation servers populated all the time in the US.
Legacy Open RTV gets populated frequently.
EW will occasionally round up some people to play on their rtv/rtm server.
MAF server has a rotation, and a bunch of their clan members will get on it together quite often.
I haven't played on it so I dunno if it has a rotation or RTV but I see AOD New Player Haven running different maps all the time.

Plus whenever new content is released, there's usually multiple servers that try it out for a while. New content also temporarily brings back old vets. This happens every single release. There's a population surge after a release, then it dies down until next release. This pattern has been going on for years. That's just how it goes, people have other stuff to do and other games to play. When a game/mod gets stale people go find something else to play until there's an update or two. Then they come back to check it out again. MB2 looks no more doomed to me right now than it did 5 or even 10 years ago.
 
Posts
299
Likes
184
Everyone's leaving either way... I can barely see the regulars CBs members and AODs since few weeks.

Everyone is sick of this particular bs, and more peculiar the shit gameplay we've been stuck with for the last 2+ years.

-Nothing change.
-No decent updates get pushed in to please the players base (Beside some maps that are +/- welcomed) → [Which btw also act as some kind of placebo to camouflage the poor gameplay]
-Devs communication is incredibly poor about the progression of changes... → Most notably because there's probably not enough progression to be worth talking about.
-And players are over-sickened to wait, hope and keep seeing their expectations unfulfilled every little patchs once every 9 months, if we're lucky.

You explained a part of the bigger issue very well tho, I smilled at it, I really like what you said, because it's plainly true.

My friends and I are thinking of leaving along the others too, its just not fun anymore tbh... not even funny.

Very sad days, gl.
 
Last edited:

Lessen

pew pew
Movie Battles II Team
Posts
1,251
Likes
995
No decent updates get pushed in to please the players base
Most notably because there's probably not enough progression to be worth talking about.
hoo hoo hooooooo

from what I know of the stuff that's being aimed to be released before/around Solo (May 25), these statements seem very silly. Gun v Saber overhaul, dueling overhaul, a motherfucking tutorial... (Not sure if the balance overhauls are explicitly planned to release before Solo but I'd ASSUME they are, since they're really far along and there's more than a month left.)

the devs have been fairly communicative about the fact that they're making major changes to the core systems (blasters and sabers), but they're also taking plenty of time to test and adjust before they release it. MB2 hasn't died in uh 15+ years of being called a dead game, it's not gonna die in the month or two between now and that patch.
 
Posts
74
Likes
76
hoo hoo hooooooo

from what I know of the stuff that's being aimed to be released before/around Solo (May 25), these statements seem very silly. Gun v Saber overhaul, dueling overhaul, a motherfucking tutorial... (Not sure if the balance overhauls are explicitly planned to release before Solo but I'd ASSUME they are, since they're really far along and there's more than a month left.)

Balance changes aren't really what I'm looking at here. A new map will sit in the dustbin for years without seeing more than a few hours played. It's not enticing for new or old developers to make any other changes besides gameplay tweaks because of this.

This mod doesn't need any new content at the moment to keep itself vitalized, but it does deserve a community that's willing (or rather able) to play the wider breadth of content the mod already has. This mod touts one of the biggest library of maps I've ever seen in a game, yet it's the same 4 or 5 that will get played for years. It's criminal how underutilized this mod's content is, and totally sad to see all the hard work people have put into it go to waste.
 
Posts
299
Likes
184
from what I know of the stuff that's being aimed to be released before/around Solo (May 25)

From what you know? See? Thats exactly the issue. Now find me an official post in here that talk about that so that not only YOU know about it.

And even if you do, its not normal I'd have to search in the darkess place of the forum to somehow find that important information.

-Open changes?
-Saber changes?
Alright. Thats good!

But what do we Officialy and Actually know about the Actual Progression of these In-Developement Edit: Gameplay Changes, Especially Sabering? We simply dont, becuse Devs do not keep us in touch with it.

It's total blank, unless you're friend with one of them and somehow manage to gather pieces of infos.

Game IS dying, sligthy more each years due to the many problems i've mentioned previously, and eventually, it will literally die for good. I highly doubt the game will ever recover if Devs fuckup the next gameplay patch.
 
Last edited:
Posts
27
Likes
31
Game IS dying, sligthy more each years due to the many problems i've mentioned previously, and eventually, it will literally die for good. I highly doubt the game will ever recover if Devs fuckup the next gameplay patch.
Why say something like this if you can easily look it up?

STAR WARS™ Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy™ - Steam Charts

MB2 since March 2015 has usually maintained an average player base around 130-190 each month and a peak around 270-450, with spikes only happening when a new Star Wars movie is released. The past 30 days it's at an average of 165 players, and the peak is 330. Over the years, the game has kept the same core amount of players and the only big jumps-big drops are people finding this game after a new SW movie is released and then stopped playing soon after, the core playerbase has always been there and is still there
 
Posts
299
Likes
184
Why say something like this if you can easily look it up?

STAR WARS™ Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy™ - Steam Charts

MB2 since March 2015 has usually maintained an average player base around 130-190 each month and a peak around 270-450, with spikes only happening when a new Star Wars movie is released. The past 30 days it's at an average of 165 players, and the peak is 330. Over the years, the game has kept the same core amount of players and the only big jumps-big drops are people finding this game after a new SW movie is released and then stopped playing soon after, the core playerbase has always been there and is still there

You do understand that Not Everyone who play JKA also play MB2? It's two separate entities, thus making the steam chart erroneous to compete any datas concerning MB2 only players? I'm not too knowledgeful about such thing, but i think my logic is not wrong here
 
Posts
27
Likes
31
You do understand that Not Everyone who play JKA also play MB2? It's two separate entities, thus making the steam chart erroneous to compete any datas concerning MB2 only players?
Do you really think that 15 years later people are still playing vanilla JKA or Movie Duels that much? All the JKA videos from recent years with the most views are MB2, and that's the main draw for getting the game now.

I just went on MB2 right now and there was 65 people on the public servers, and it said 89 people were playing JKA 30 minutes ago. So maybe 20% at best are playing something other than MB2 when they boot up JKA. The numbers have stayed the same for 3 years now, do you think it's the same MB2 players or people doing the same movie duels or same JKA single player over and over for 3 years?
 
  • Like
Reactions: SK5
Posts
299
Likes
184
Do you really think that 15 years later people are still playing vanilla JKA or Movie Duels that much? All the JKA videos from recent years with the most views are MB2, and that's the main draw for getting the game now.

I just went on MB2 right now and there was 65 people on the public servers, and it said 89 people were playing JKA 30 minutes ago. So maybe 20% at best are playing something other than MB2 when they boot up JKA. The numbers have stayed the same for 3 years now, do you think it's the same MB2 players or people doing the same movie duels or same JKA single player over and over for 3 years?
You’d be surprised. There’s far more streams on Twitch of base JKA then of MB2, beside that doesn’t change the fact that my logic still apply. You said it yourself, 20% is not a small margin and even if it was 1%, the steam chart remain invalide to compete any real data concerning MB2 only players.
 
Posts
27
Likes
31
You’d be surprised. There’s far more streams on Twitch of base JKA then of MB2, beside that doesn’t change the fact that my logic still apply. You said it yourself, 20% is not a small margin and even if it was 1%, the steam chart remain invalide to compete any real data concerning MB2 only players.
Most of the Twitch streams for JKA are speedruns, MB2 has never been popular on twitch at any point so not sure why that would be relevant to the mod dying. The most views for anything JKA in recent years are the How to Lightsaber videos, "playing a good star wars game" (522k) and the skullcast mb2 review (355k). The last two videos both being uploaded in late 2017 and already having that many views

You could compare the steamcharts number to MB2 any time you want by just starting the mod and looking at how many people are in servers, if the numbers have stayed the same for 3 years with the same mod of the game being the main draw there's obviously an equivalent there. Am I saying this game is perfect and nobody at all is leaving the game? Not even close, you are right some regulars are leaving the game. But it's funny to see people say MB2 is dying when at one point for a time literally the only server you would find with more than 5 people in is AOD DOTF (you can ask anyone who played back then about this). I don't think this game has a chance of dying especially with how much Disney is milking the SW series. New players will always be there to grab
 
Posts
299
Likes
184
Most of the Twitch streams for JKA are speedruns, MB2 has never been popular on twitch at any point so not sure why that would be relevant to the mod dying. The most views for anything JKA in recent years are the How to Lightsaber videos, "playing a good star wars game" (522k) and the skullcast mb2 review (355k). The last two videos both being uploaded in late 2017 and already having that many views

You could compare the steamcharts number to MB2 any time you want by just playing the game and comparing them, if the numbers have stayed the same for 3 years with the same mod of the game being the main draw there's obviously an equivalent there. Am I saying this game is perfect and nobody at all is leaving the game? Not even close, you are right some regulars are leaving the game. But it's funny to see people say MB2 is dying when at one point for a time literally the only server you would find with more than 5 people in is AOD DOTF (you can ask anyone who played back then about this). I don't think this game has a chance of dying especially with how much Disney is milking the SW series. New players will always be there to grab
Either way I don’t know why this become such an huge debate, my main point was just pointing the lack of good updates and lack on Devs communication. Of course I’ll come play back when some gameplay update eventually, one day, hit the market. But in the currents state, it’s not welcoming to stay (imo). 1.4.9 is the most boring gameplay I’ve ever played
 
Posts
27
Likes
31
Either way I don’t know why this become such an huge debate, my main point was just pointing the lack of good updates and lack on Devs communication. Of course I’ll come play back when some gameplay update eventually, one day, hit the market. But in the currents state, it’s not welcoming to stay (imo). 1.4.9 is the most boring update I’ve ever played
I don't play Jedi/Sith at all so this might be the disconnect here. I can see why Jedi/Sith players would become frustrated with the game and not much fixes for them
 
Posts
74
Likes
76
Why say something like this if you can easily look it up?

STAR WARS™ Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy™ - Steam Charts

MB2 since March 2015 has usually maintained an average player base around 130-190 each month and a peak around 270-450, with spikes only happening when a new Star Wars movie is released. The past 30 days it's at an average of 165 players, and the peak is 330. Over the years, the game has kept the same core amount of players and the only big jumps-big drops are people finding this game after a new SW movie is released and then stopped playing soon after, the core playerbase has always been there and is still there

At least in my perspective, the "death" of this game has less to do with the raw numbers of players online and more to do with the quality of the experience. I simply am not having any quality experiences with this game anymore when I compare things to how they were before. The population is largely padded out by newbies who come and go. It's rare that I'll find any oldies, largely because they've left. The servers that have any hope of being populated are the same one-map servers, or run by the clans that own these one-map servers, who, due to their desire to remain at the top at all times, will very seldom play anything outside of the same 4-5 maps. All the cool clans that used to endorse new content and take risks on their server population for the sake of fun are basically gone, beaten out by the clans that practice the easy one-map method of gaining population and members.

This is really unfair for the developers of this game. Sno-Dog, for example, who made the Dxun map, had this map in the works for literally years before releasing it. I've known Sno-Dog ingame for years, and know that this was a labor of love from him. Yet, on the first few days I see this map played after the new update, I see people already saying "this map sucks, switch it already." I haven't seen it played since. In the past, people would play a map for weeks before deciding whether or not it was good or bad, because they realized different maps played differently, and because they realized every map needed time for it to develop its own meta. Nowadays, the average player won't even give new maps the time of day, and would rather play on the same few maps - a product of their upbringing.

I don't see the community dying as far as the numbers go, but I do see the quality of people playing declining, both in intelligence and personality; the amount of content I can expect to see played gets smaller and smaller as well. The overall population might not be declining significantly, but the original communities of the mod who made it enjoyable have been driven out and replaced. To me, that's what I mean by "death" for this mod.
 
Posts
299
Likes
184
I don't play Jedi/Sith at all so this might be the disconnect here. I can see why Jedi/Sith players would become frustrated with the game and not much fixes for them
It really is.... I started using gunners to keep me busy few days ago and find some more pleasure, but I’m bad, and it’s not enough for me... i just hope for the best to come soon and please everyone’s expectations
 
Posts
27
Likes
31
At least in my perspective, the "death" of this game has less to do with the raw numbers of players online and more to do with the quality of the experience. I simply am not having any quality experiences with this game anymore when I compare things to how they were before. The population is largely padded out by newbies who come and go. It's rare that I'll find any oldies, largely because they've left. The servers that have any hope of being populated are the same one-map servers, or run by the clans that own these one-map servers, who, due to their desire to remain at the top at all times, will very seldom play anything outside of the same 4-5 maps. All the cool clans that used to endorse new content and take risks on their server population for the sake of fun are basically gone, beaten out by the clans that practice the easy one-map method of gaining population and members.

This is really unfair for the developers of this game. Sno-Dog, for example, who made the Dxun map, had this map in the works for literally years before releasing it. I've known Sno-Dog ingame for years, and know that this was a labor of love from him. Yet, on the first few days I see this map played after the new update, I see people already saying "this map sucks, switch it already." I haven't seen it played since. In the past, people would play a map for weeks before deciding whether or not it was good or bad, because they realized different maps played differently, and because they realized every map needed time for it to develop its own meta. Nowadays, the average player won't even give new maps the time of day, and would rather play on the same few maps - a product of their upbringing.

I don't see the community dying as far as the numbers go, but I do see the quality of people playing declining, both in intelligence and personality; the amount of content I can expect to see played gets smaller and smaller as well. The overall population might not be declining significantly, but the original communities of the mod who made it enjoyable have been driven out and replaced. To me, that's what I mean by "death" for this mod.
This is a different argument here and there's not much I can say against it. My only thing is, if people got too comfortable playing on DOTF/Deathstar/a tiny bit of lunarbase instead of trying the new maps you can't really blame the server owners for it right? Look at the backlash Mace got and still gets because of the DOTF update, change can be hard for some.

But I agree, I like Dxun alot
 

MaceMadunusus

Level Designer
Donator
Movie Battles II Team
Posts
1,913
Likes
2,672
Either way I don’t know why this become such an huge debate, my main point was just pointing the lack of good updates and lack on Devs communication.

Uh, November- early March had a CRAP ton of updates both in dev diaries and patches going. The only the last month or so that has been a bit barren so far in terms of "official" updates. But a lot of it is just you not really paying attention.

From what you know? See? Thats exactly the issue. Now find me an official post in here that talk about that so that not only YOU know about it.

Increasing The Playerbase
Launcher Updates and Fixes (this is still in testing phases since you haven't seen this released yet)
March Character Models (Models at the end of this post are the ones currently being worked on, beginning was the ones that were being released the next patch)
Feedback Thread: Open Beta (after V1.4.9) - Drop 1 Open Beta 1
Feedback Thread: Open Beta (after V1.4.9) - Drop 2 Open Beta 2
Feedback Thread: Open Beta (after V1.4.9) - Drop 3 Open Beta 3
Expect Open Beta 4 in the next 2 days ish.

Plus things we aren't ready to show or talk about yet. Sometimes things are just too early and we will end up being quiet. However we have been VERY communicative lately.
 
Posts
299
Likes
184
At least in my perspective, the "death" of this game has less to do with the raw numbers of players online and more to do with the quality of the experience. I simply am not having any quality experiences with this game anymore when I compare things to how they were before. The population is largely padded out by newbies who come and go. It's rare that I'll find any oldies, largely because they've left. The servers that have any hope of being populated are the same one-map servers, or run by the clans that own these one-map servers, who, due to their desire to remain at the top at all times, will very seldom play anything outside of the same 4-5 maps. All the cool clans that used to endorse new content and take risks on their server population for the sake of fun are basically gone, beaten out by the clans that practice the easy one-map method of gaining population and members.

This is really unfair for the developers of this game. Sno-Dog, for example, who made the Dxun map, had this map in the works for literally years before releasing it. I've known Sno-Dog ingame for years, and know that this was a labor of love from him. Yet, on the first few days I see this map played after the new update, I see people already saying "this map sucks, switch it already." I haven't seen it played since. In the past, people would play a map for weeks before deciding whether or not it was good or bad, because they realized different maps played differently, and because they realized every map needed time for it to develop its own meta. Nowadays, the average player won't even give new maps the time of day, and would rather play on the same few maps - a product of their upbringing.

I don't see the community dying as far as the numbers go, but I do see the quality of people playing declining, both in intelligence and personality; the amount of content I can expect to see played gets smaller and smaller as well. The overall population might not be declining significantly, but the original communities of the mod who made it enjoyable have been driven out and replaced. To me, that's what I mean by "death" for this mod.
I getcha, I do agree. And for what it’s worth, I find that Dxun map super amazing and very artistic, as well an awesome wink to Kotor. Just wish I could play it more... but you know how it work around...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top