Mace is actually right about sabering

[noel]

Wholeheartedly agree with this.

I can't agree with him because of:

Simply put, on this forum we have 5-15 "duelists" with no prior personal experience of old builds recklessly and ignorantly discarding the concentrated and distilled opinions of an entire community of duelists who played MB2 in its prime, easily hundreds of active duelists from B17-RC3 because they presumably aren't open minded enough or they seem like know better than history or the data itself.

Where are these hundreds of old players? I certainly don't see many old duelists discussing the game on here besides SeV and Defiled

 

[Firestrike]

I can't agree with him because of:



Where are these hundreds of old players? I certainly don't see many old duelists discussing the game on here besides SeV and Defiled

Simply put, on this forum we have 5-15 "duelists" with no prior personal experience of old builds recklessly and ignorantly discarding the concentrated and distilled opinions of an entire community of duelists who played MB2 in its prime, easily hundreds of active duelists from B17-RC3 because they presumably aren't open minded enough or they seem like know better than history or the data itself.

You misread or misinterpreted what I typed. I said over the course of B17-RC3 there have been hundreds of duelists to play the game. I'm in no way implying that there are hundreds are duelists that are on these forums. If that one seemingly misinterpreted sentence is your take away from the whole post I'm not sure what to tell you.

 

[noel]

You misread or misinterpreted what I typed. I said over the course of B17-RC3 there have been hundreds of duelists to play the game. I'm in no way implying that there are hundreds are duelists that are on these forums. If that one seemingly misinterpreted sentence is your take away from the post I'm not sure what to tell you.

Then wtf did you mean? If I'm not mistaken your entire point relies on the fact that there are still B17-RC3 players active in the community who would be glad to revert to that build?

As I've said a million times, and as has been mentioned literally posts ago on this exact thread, those players are not going to come back, so how will reverting ever work?

The most popular opinion (as demonstrated by this poll) is that 1.3 would be the most suitable place to revert to (even though it wouldnt ever happen as you acknowledged) so how are you trying to withdraw from this set of results that somehow RC1/2/3 is the place we should be going back to and that, somehow, we are all somehow narrow minded or our opinion any less valuable because we haven't played the mod for 15 years?

The whole point of the poll is to show what the active playerbase want, not what the playerbase of five, ten or fifteen years ago want.

Anyway we're all wasting our time as a reversion will never happen. My opinion has now changed, and I believe that all we can really do is hope that Tempest or Stassin continues to work hard on a good build that will freeze duelling for a while.

 

[reConfigured]

When a concerted effort is made to orchestrate the team into an actual team that works together (and presumably succeeds), then I feel like revelations like this will be more valid and actionable. The development team, for better for worse, is a collection of individuals who work close enough to release changes in a mod that they share interest. If we dissolve the development team down to its basic components what we're left with are these individuals who are dedicating much of their free time to making the changes that THEY want to make. Adding onto that: the biggest draw to the game is its saber system, and the developers who take on work in the sphere of saber code are among the most dedicated individuals I've seen on the team - though certainly not the only ones. And if we hold these things as the truth, then I have little sympathy for a community that "wants something other than saber changes" but isn't willing to join the team and offer their free time to make it a reality. Learn to code/create? Then there is a spot for you and nothing left to hold back all those changes you've itched for over the past decade.

The only other option, in my eyes, is to treat the development team more serious - with respect - and perhaps they'll adjust to fit your expectations.

 

[JamJarBinks]

Unpopular Opinion:

I actually wish Mb2 took a hard left with regards to saber combat and tried more for an EU vibe. 7 saber forms. Have some suck against gunners. Have some only good against gunners. Have some suck against sabers. Have some really good at fighting off saber ganks (Can anyone say backstab protection?).

It always seemed weird to have a jack of all trades with saber forms when gunners had to specialize. Why shouldn't Jedi have to specialize what they're good against? (Are you fighting SBD spam or Sith spam? Pick the right saber form! Hell it might make Jedi need to team-work instead of going all batman on people.)

And to make things even more thrilling, give some gunner classes vibroswords or those magnadroids with the spinny electrostaffs.

At least that's what I'd do. Could just be another concept that only looks good on paper, though. Not sure.

 

[Stassin]

Unpopular Opinion:

Not sure who it is unpopular with, but at least not me because that's exactly what i've been developing in beta for a while.

 

[SeV]

Not sure who it is unpopular with, but at least not me because that's exactly what i've been developing in beta for a while.

If it counts for anything, then I really liked your concepts and had a lot of fun in your system. More than the current style systems. I really want an open beta for it, so if u have time please polish it into a proper state and then negotiate an open beta. I'd say the same for whatever tempest is working on, but I haven't tested his stuff at all.

Anyway, I think saber development (If you can even call the past 3 years 'development, hah') has really suffered from lack of exposure to the public in open betas. I'm not saying you should listen to random pub noobs, but maybe a saber system is supposed to work outside 1v1 dueling with ACM and other invisible shit. That's another reason why I like stassins direction, though ofc I can't say anything about anything... All I can say is, go open beta and test it in both open and duel. That's the way forward rather than closed off, secretive, very biased testing behind closed doors. Throw everything open and let the public in, because, public is small. I am of half a mind to say that beta should be open for everyone, because first of all, it's a non-commercial product, second of all, our community is tiny. It's not a game dev studio with hundreds of thousands of players. If we included all of public, we would barely comprise an internal family-only alpha stage test of game development, right? I am not sure what the purpose of having closed off, secret development/beta testing is.

 

[JamJarBinks]

Not sure who it is unpopular with, but at least not me because that's exactly what i've been developing in beta for a while.

Then please keep at it, even if it gets rough and it seems like you don't have support, because you do.

 

[MaceMadunusus]

Throw everything open and let the public in, because, public is small. I am of half a mind to say that beta should be open for everyone, because first of all, it's a non-commercial product, second of all, our community is tiny.

Most if not all of the development team is for this. However there are some logistical problems we currently have with doing this AND that we will always need an internal beta team to catch some issues early to prevent larger community scale tests from being ruined.

I believe we want to run a public open beta test at least once a month.

However how do we realistically do it in a sustainable manner? We can't give everyone access to the SVN, it doesn't have the throughput or capability to deal with that and the amount of issues beta testers have would compound drastically with a larger section of the community. It also requires drastically larger harddrive space than the main build.

We can't really expect people to copy existing versions of MB2 over and download a "changed files" zip every release, and it requires a few hours to put that together, upload to multiple places, and verify. The same with upgrading via a full download being a problem as that takes more uploading time, takes people forever to download, etc.

The launcher capability to run open betas won't be available for a long time as we don't have the programming resources for that.

I think the closest thing we can do right now is uploading the build to github and updating what we need for testing. That way it auto generates a zip download for the lazy people and for those experienced enough can sync and only download changed files via git + lfs.

 

[[SE] Maren]

Not sure who it is unpopular with, but at least not me because that's exactly what i've been developing in beta for a while.

Realistically i think yellow and purple should be the main dueling forms, just buffing purple to be strong against duelists with larger acm build up from blocking would be great considering how easy it is to dodge and outmanouvre compared to yellow, also returning the fancy attack but with a lot more damage instead of the stab (which something like cyan could have)

 

[Tempest]

It always seemed weird to have a jack of all trades with saber forms when gunners had to specialize. Why shouldn't Jedi have to specialize what they're good against?

Big agree.

However how do we realistically do it in a sustainable manner? We can't give everyone access to the SVN, it doesn't have the throughput or capability to deal with that and the amount of issues beta testers have would compound drastically with a larger section of the community. It also requires drastically larger harddrive space than the main build.

We can't really expect people to copy existing versions of MB2 over and download a "changed files" zip every release, and it requires a few hours to put that together, upload to multiple places, and verify. The same with upgrading via a full download being a problem as that takes more uploading time, takes people forever to download, etc.

The launcher capability to run open betas won't be available for a long time as we don't have the programming resources for that.

I think the closest thing we can do right now is uploading the build to github and updating what we need for testing. That way it auto generates a zip download for the lazy people and for those experienced enough can sync and only download changed files via git + lfs.

You basically described what I've been doing while testing/bug hunting with what I've been working on. I just have a Google Drive link that I upload the latest PK3s too and people update when needed. It doesn't take hours to basically re-dl 2 or 3 files. Only time consuming part is the actual build compiling.

 

[MaceMadunusus]

It doesn't take hours to basically re-dl 2 or 3 files.

Google drive has download limits. And yeah that works when you're doing what you are doing, but if you start adding tutorials, UI, maps, models, etc to that to test entire builds as a whole for the entire community it gets to be a bit more of an issue.

 

[SeV]

Most if not all of the development team is for this. However there are some logistical problems we currently have with doing this AND that we will always need an internal beta team to catch some issues early to prevent larger community scale tests from being ruined.

I believe we want to run a public open beta test at least once a month.

However how do we realistically do it in a sustainable manner? We can't give everyone access to the SVN, it doesn't have the throughput or capability to deal with that and the amount of issues beta testers have would compound drastically with a larger section of the community. It also requires drastically larger harddrive space than the main build.

We can't really expect people to copy existing versions of MB2 over and download a "changed files" zip every release, and it requires a few hours to put that together, upload to multiple places, and verify. The same with upgrading via a full download being a problem as that takes more uploading time, takes people forever to download, etc.

The launcher capability to run open betas won't be available for a long time as we don't have the programming resources for that.

I think the closest thing we can do right now is uploading the build to github and updating what we need for testing. That way it auto generates a zip download for the lazy people and for those experienced enough can sync and only download changed files via git + lfs.

Why can't you have a second launcher called the open beta launcher, that is a copy paste but just downloads test files, installs seperately etc. Functions exactly the same as the current launcher, but the files it downloads are test files for open beta. Surely it cannot be hard to just change a few archives so it doesn't override mb2 but makes a new mb2_test folder.

 

[MaceMadunusus]

Might be more possible now after the migration. However, you need to change more than just folder it dumps to. Minimally you need to change where it updates from. However my main concern with doing that currently is if that would interfere with auto launcher update part of the launcher. And I am also guessing we would need to re-certify the beta launcher with anti-virus software as well.

Its possible, but I would think it would take the amount of time to put together as putting a toggle in the launcher itself. Though I also don't know how things were done. I'm just guessing.

 

[Bruce Campbell]

Wow, seeing that big ass list of things Mace wanted to do is almost heartbreaking. More ways to shootybangs is always good.

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

The Road Not Taken.

 

[Dill Pickle]

Wow, seeing that big ass list of things Mace wanted to do is almost heartbreaking. More ways to shootybangs is always good.

Boy howdy. Rootin' tootin' shooty dootin'.

 

[Biblical]

general consensus oldfags want rc1 but are shit at dueling so it doesnt matter and good duelists want 1.3

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

What good duelists? The inbred that are afraid to venture out of duel servers.

 

[SeV]

general consensus oldfags want rc1 but are shit at dueling so it doesnt matter and good duelists want 1.3