Mace is actually right about sabering

Discussion in 'Community Discussion' started by noel, Nov 16, 2018.

?

If you could revert sabering, what patch would it be?

  1. 1.3 (ive never played but heard a lot about it)

    40 vote(s)
    43.0%
  2. 1.4.2 (whichever was Pb counter patch)

    6 vote(s)
    6.5%
  3. 1.4.9 (acm spamfest)

    4 vote(s)
    4.3%
  4. 1.5 ('simple' patch)

    8 vote(s)
    8.6%
  5. 1.1 (played this one, still had old pb afaik)

    5 vote(s)
    5.4%
  6. RC1/2 (hear a lot but don't know much about)

    24 vote(s)
    25.8%
  7. b18 (hear a lot but don't know much about)

    6 vote(s)
    6.5%
  1. Ginkobum13

    Ginkobum13 Internal Beta Team

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    Why can't we just update the library, tutorials in game sound cool but we have so many on youtube. And about sabering, current system isn't that bad, The acm system is better and cyan is nerfed, no more semi block or perfect parry, purple is painfully slow and red is op, yellow is the favored style, interruptions from lucky swings and your dead because your timing sucks. I'd much rather we have new maps and changes to open mode BUT open mode will always be a clusterfuck of people with jedi / sith being the class that beats everyone. Probably because gunners who don't stay in groups or don't know how to walk/crouch will get killed so they are weaker and require support from teammates to survive but jedi / sith can kill you in 100 ways and make you wish you were never born.
     
  2. PuNk

    PuNk Donator Internal Beta Team

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    Those on YouTube are outdated for the most part and they do not really go much in detail.
     
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  3. Ekajus

    Ekajus

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    Does a new player really need deep detail?
     
  4. noel

    noel Internal Beta Team

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    you missed out the broken counters, which is literally making the build unplayable imo (its like mbcounter speed but you dont even have to mbcounter)
     
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  5. MaceMadunusus

    MaceMadunusus Level Designer Movie Battles II Team

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    Not really but they need the basics. A good chunk of those youtube tutorials are outdated on even the basics.

    Library should get updated too though.
     
  6. President Bossk

    President Bossk

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    The in game library is horribly outdated by now. When I started playing 3 years ago, I was really confused because the library talked about stuff that wasn't even in the game anymore or said mechanics worked differently then they actually did. It's a good thing a lot of the players in-game are helpful and willing to tell you about stuff, because that's basicly the only way to learn how mechanics work.
     
  7. vasya

    vasya

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    current build is so awesome.
    i also like new movies.
    rey is hot and not op at all.
     
  8. SneakDissing

    SneakDissing

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    I personally love the new movies. From the oddly dynamic characters to the forced feminism... it's just a brilliant idea.
     
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  9. klimbo123

    klimbo123

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    i agreed thank you bro
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  10. Blazer

    Blazer

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    I just realized the sentence/question as to why I'm still frustrated about the saber system and why it sucks:

    Why is it so hard?
    WHY? Why can't it just be simple? Why does it have to be so hard to learn and impossible to master? Why can't someone pick up this game and just play sabers and learn by playing? In my hundreds (245) hours that I put into this damn mod, I never learned how to saber after hours and hours of trying, because it always changed (which is fine, devs gotta change stuff), BUT it was always so god DAMN hard to learn and understand whats going on.

    I said this in another thread but in JKA, someone could join and just go at it, and its fun and it worked. No bullshit and no retarded mechanics that you gotta fucking learn like it's a god damn test at school. But the new guys that join MB2 and want to even attempt at sabering, they just cant. It's just so god damn hard and frustrating, nobody even wants to learn it anymore.
    This is the exact reason my brother left after he played for 2 weeks. He downloaded the game and had fun, but then realized it was so complicated and there was SO MUCH bullshit that happened and how he died, that he just fucking left the game and swore to me he'd never play again. Guess what? HE HASN'T. EVEN after I tried convincing him just to join and goof around with me.
    His response was something around the lines of "Yeah that game is full of bullshit and gets me way too mad. I'm not playing that anymore"
     
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  11. Hessu

    Hessu Internal Beta Team

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    The depth of dueling system is what makes it fun. It would be too boring if it was too easy to learn. You do learn by playing, it just takes time to be good at it (guides help a lot) though i do understand if some feel like it takes too long.
     
    noel likes this.
  12. Biblical

    Biblical

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    Only make comments like this if you are good please. Thankyou
     
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  13. Tylenol

    Tylenol Internal Beta Team

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    The problem is that MB2 is pretty bad at organically teaching players by just playing without just feeding them information. I think if you took a rando off the street and forced them to play MB2 with no guidance what so ever, they'd probably get through the basic stuff (controls, movement, swinging, blocking etc) within maybe 2 hours but would eventually just hit a roadblock as to the other mechanics, since they're just not ones you can learn by playing.

    You can work out combos by swinging your saber about. You can learn that running drains more BP due to experimenting with your movement + it's something that logically makes sense. You can also work out how styles work just by experimenting and taking note of the different swinging animations + the actual speed of swings themselves
    But here's where it gets tricky

    You can kinda work out how current PB works due to the green indicator (both for quadrants and successful blocks) but it might not always be obvious that blocking + the indicator + your opponents swings are all somehow related
    You might understand how to gain ACM, when you manage to hit someone mutliple times without getting smacked back but without a proper BP damage indicator, I don't think many people would be entirely certain what it does.
    And if you're pretty much fucked when it comes to halfswings, disarms and swingblock since those just barely make sense logically.

    And my intent here isn't to say that the game has to be more realistic and make sense, because it doesn't. But rather I think there's too many faux-complex mechanics that just need straight up removing.

    Edit - Grammar and spelling
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2019
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  14. Hessu

    Hessu Internal Beta Team

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    Yes i agree that it could be simplified, but not too much. My concern is that if you make it too simple, it wont have much skill involved anymore. Tutorials will help and of course asking other players for help is a good way for progressing in the game, it's not too hard.
     
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  15. Blazer

    Blazer

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    Well that's why I included the part about JKA. JKA's saber system is as simple as it can get, and as far as I know, just about every person that played JKA had a shit ton of fun playing with the sabers. And yes, making a complex dueling system can seperate the good players from the bad, but not really. I mean in JKA servers, there were players KNOWN for being the best saberists and nobody could beat them. Just because it was simple doesn't mean there wasn't a skill level involved.

    I remember playing old JKA and staying away from the part of the map on yavin temple because that's where all the really good guys hung around, dare you step into that area and challenge them, you're done for. I don't know how to explain the area but it was the courtyard near the big wall with the hole in it.


    Edit: I can't find a picture of it but it almost looked like this, but i think this is actually it.
    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Hessu

    Hessu Internal Beta Team

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    JKA's dueling system is just ADHD running and jumping around, it doesn't look good. Surely there is skill involved in it too but imo mb2 is just a lot better. A friend of mine who has played both jka and mb2 a lot, got bored of jka quite quickly.
     
  17. KimmyMarin

    KimmyMarin US Official Server Admin

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    as ive always said, the saber system could be simplyied and more userfriendly instead of all the gimmicks and whatnot they have added threw the course of time, im not saying you should make it toddler level (hennub gets the reference) but more user friendly that you actually feel you understand the mechanics, how it plays out and so on, also it would be nice if these kind of mechanics wouldnt needed to be affected by ping, but i suppose thats asking too much.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
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  18. Hessu

    Hessu Internal Beta Team

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    whos hennub
     
  19. KimmyMarin

    KimmyMarin US Official Server Admin

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    you silly :p
     
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  20. WaceMindu

    WaceMindu

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    Agreed.

    Either we leave duelling as this very niche thing with tons of intricate mechanics only about 20-30 people half understand and don't even seem to fully enjoy (and more complexity/obfuscated mechanics is often their answer to solve it all, I couldn't help but notice), or we do remove some of the too subtle and more illogical-looking mechanics/make them have some kind of easily recognizable visual or audio feedback. There's a fine line between dumbing things down and making them enjoyable.
    As it stands, the burden of knowledge in order to master the sabering system is too heavy compared to its rewards, linked to the lack of reliability/accuracy of execution for most people - it might work for some very dedicated people who have very good cocaine connections and know every odd behaviour of the engine, but most of the playerbase simply doesn't enjoy it any more compared to the arguably simpler earlier versions. Duelling servers have been visibly less populated recently.

    Then again, I'm pretty sure the dev team is aware of this, and we can only hope the next big patch will fix most of our common complaints.
     

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