Gas Stassin: A Modest Proposal

[MaceMadunusus]

You're being ignorant of the fact of taking all feedback regardless of how shitty it might be.

How the hell am I doing that?

By ticket I mean one that you do not respond to. Just a place that will collect all the data to be sorted by someone

Man many of you keep mentioning this magical "someone" that doesn't exist, has to be perfectly unbiased, has to work for free doing mundane work, etc. No one cared about doing the wiki until I asked to make a push for it for Solo, why would someone help with this?

Well I mean anytime the map changes to dotf you get half the server calling it a shit map. There is also that poll that shows most people don't like the new dotf.
But nice deflection though

Uh, what poll? There was only one poll and more people liked the new map than didn't. I mentioned this in my post as well. Nice incorrect facts used to slander developers. You're falling into the trap in my original post and just proving how toxic some members like yourself are.

 

[Smee]

How the hell am I doing that?



Man many of you keep mentioning this magical "someone" that doesn't exist, has to be perfectly unbiased, has to work for free doing mundane work, etc.



Uh, what poll? There was only one poll and more people liked the new map than didn't. I mentioned this in my post as well. Nice incorrect facts used to slander developers. You're falling into the trap in my original post and just proving how toxic some members like yourself are.

Do you like new DOTF?
Only 41% voted that they liked the map. The rest either dislike it or are indifferent, meaning a majority of people are not in favour of the new map. So your statement that "more liked the map than didn't" is wrong. IF you are not sure, then you do not like the map enough to say you like it.
And just because you don't like a fact doesn't make it incorrect, or "slander" (lmao).

 

[Noob]

if i wasnt leaving in a month i would totally do it. That's fine btw MAce, if no devs want to step up and be a someone to just sort through feedback logically and not emotionally, then i guess the team was doomed from the beginning. I will wait to hear what other people think of my propositions and work on at least trying to help the situation instead of getting defensive

 

[MaceMadunusus]

Do you like new DOTF?
Only 41% voted that they liked the map. The rest either dislike it or are indifferent, meaning a majority of people are not in favour of the new map.
And just because you don't like a fact doesn't make it incorrect, or "slander" (lmao).

Nice, using INDIFFERENT as "DO NOT LIKE"..... nice.... REAL NICE. You know what indifferent means right? Jesus.

And like I mentioned in my post... AGAIN, because you failed to read it. Over time I have gotten more and more people that voted no on that poll, that said to me MONTHS later that after the changes I have made that they like the map again. That vote, was also only on the initial revision of DOTF when subsequent changes were viewed as positive. Are they going to go back to a random forum poll and revote? Nope.

 

[Smee]

Nice, using INDIFFERENT as "DO NOT LIKE"..... nice.... REAL NICE.

And like I mentioned in my post... AGAIN, because you failed to read it. Over time I have gotten more and more people that voted no on that poll, that said to me MONTHS later that after the changes I have made that they like the map again. That vote, was also only on the initial revision of DOTF when subsequent changes were viewed as positive.

Indifferent does mean do not like. You either like something or you do not. If you are indifferent, then you don't like it enough to vote "like". I'm not sure if you're joking.
As for your subsequent changes, I don't think putting in a massive ugly ship in the hangar has improved the map so much that people now like the map. If you're so confident about the community's feelings on dotf, feel free to make another poll. As the whole point of the thread is devs listening to community feedback, then you should take the poll more seriously anyway.
And honestly your subsequent changes have made me like the map even less, especially that god-awful massive ship in the hangar. From reading the chat in-game I'm not the only one. Yes this is an anecdote but your argument relied on them just as much.

 

[k4far]

I am not sure you guys realize there is order to everything priority right now is on tutorials.

Once that is done, Mace is not against doing some changes to the new Dotf then hold another poll on and take more feedback. He is kinda against CW as I have been bugging him to change his mind lol I proposed CW just in Federation Room because Hangar gets height difference from multiple new elements. He's already declared side routes will change, a lot of good changes. It's just a matter of time and you being impatient. I like the changes he did so far improved this map a lot.

 

[DaloLorn]

Indifferent does mean do not like. You either like something or you do not. If you are indifferent, then you don't like it.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

More seriously, indifferent means just that - indifference. They don't like it enough to say that they like it, but they don't dislike it enough to say that they dislike it.

 

[Smee]

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

More seriously, indifferent means just that - indifference. They don't like it enough to say that they like it, but they don't dislike it enough to say that they dislike it.

Yeah that's my point. Less than 50% voted they like the map.

 

[DaloLorn]

Yeah that's my point. Less than 50% voted they like the map.

And less than 40% voted they don't like it. I can twist statistics too, you know.

 

[MaceMadunusus]

Indifferent does mean do not like. You either like something or you do not. If you are indifferent, then you don't like it enough to vote "like". I'm not sure if you're joking.

in·dif·fer·ent
inˈdif(ə)rənt/
adjective

1. having no particular interest or sympathy; unconcerned.
2. neither good nor bad; mediocre.

People who chose indifferent either don't care, or don't think its good or bad. Most people I know use indifferent as do not care. But either way both definitions do not go to "do not like" and you are fooling yourself even more. Please, just continue proving my point more about how difficult it is dealing with toxic shits like you willing to twist things to their own agenda while accusing the developers of that. Hypocrite.

If you're so confident about the community's feelings on dotf, feel free to make another poll.

Sure, once I do more final changes on DOTF. No point making it if I plan on making more changes.

And honestly your subsequent changes have made me like the map even less, especially that god-awful massive ship in the hangar. From reading the chat in-game I'm not the only one. Yes this is an anecdote but your argument relied on them just as much.

Thanks for the feedback.

I am not sure you guys realize there is order to everything priority right now is on tutorials.

DOTF will get its changes before all tutorials are done.

 

[Smee]

iPlease, just continue proving my point more about how difficult it is dealing with toxic shits like you willing to twist things to their own agenda while accusing the developers of that. Hypocrite.

Wow, a member of the mb2 team flaming. Wow. Seriously, I try to give honest feedback about a map. I didn't personally insult you yet you resort to name calling.What's going on?

 

[Noob]

Hey mace, you are really bad at making useful arguments, and smee is using that against you. maybe you should step out for a little while, catch your breath bud. I know i fuck around but for just this once i dont want a thread to devolve into shittery

 

[MaceMadunusus]

Hey mace, you are really bad at making useful arguments, and smee is using that against you. maybe you should step out for a little while, catch your breath bud. I know i fuck around but for just this once i dont want a thread to devolve into shittery

Lawl. Dalo used the same arguments, but apparently mine is bad. HOKAY.

 

[Noob]

dalo is only supporting you, just leave the thread let the discussion continue. ill argue in pm if u want some company. feel free to clean the thread if you want @Whoeverdoesthisnow

 

[DaloLorn]

Hey mace, you are really bad at making useful arguments, and smee is using that against you. maybe you should step out for a little while, catch your breath bud. I know i fuck around but for just this once i dont want a thread to devolve into shittery

Lawl. Dalo used the same arguments, but apparently mine is bad. HOKAY.

​

To be fair, the dictionary definition was a pretty good way of showing how Smee was misreading the stats. The subsequent display of anger was... not so helpful.

 

[MaceMadunusus]

Okay listen up, since you guys still aren't getting it.

I can apparently listen on 99% of things talked about in regards to level design and adjust maps like DOTF for months, or even years, accordingly in response to feedback. I can also have years of changes and things implemented from the community. But because I do something that a minority of the community disagree with (ie majority like the changes to lunar), or I don't do something immediately when the community wants it, all of those years and years of proving for a fact that I do listen to the community gets suddenly invalidated? This stuff right here is a perfect example of why the toxic relationship between the developers and the community exist. No matter what we do there will always be some portion of the community that says "you're not listening to me".

I have already said DOTF will be changing again in response to feedback. Not good enough apparently.

The subsequent display of anger was... not so helpful.

Not helpful but doesn't suddenly turn it into useless arguments. But it wasn't anger. It was intentional to illustrate the point above: how frustrating it gets to be a developer in this community. Where we can try our damnedest, prove we are on the communities side HUNDREDS of times, and its never good enough to some people. Several developers have quit, or shut themselves off from the community entirely, because of how the community treats them. There is a reason you don't see Plasma responding to anything at all anymore, and I have to relay feedback to him. And I could go on and list a ton more developers too. The community doesn't realize how much they have contributed to the state of things and they blame everything wrong with the game/community on the developers. The community needs to start taking responsibility for their actions.

 

[Noob]

this isnt a thread about your maps though. i think smee was making a point (not one i particularly agree with) on the relationship being devs taking no feedback whatsoever. you both completely derailed it going back and forth about a map. I gave my ideas, i dont think any one of them is bad, argue me otherwise, lets get some actual feedback. Gas Stassin: A Modest Proposal

 

[Smee]

Okay listen up, since you guys still aren't getting it.

I can apparently listen on 99% of things talked about in regards to level design and adjust maps like DOTF for months, or even years, accordingly in response to feedback. I can also have years of changes and things implemented from the community. But because I do something that a minority of the community disagree with (ie majority like the changes to lunar), or I don't do something immediately when the community wants it, all of those years and years of proving for a fact that I do listen to the community gets suddenly invalidated? This stuff right here is a perfect example of why the toxic relationship between the developers and the community exist. No matter what we do there will always be some portion of the community that says "you're not listening to me".

I have already said DOTF will be changing again in response to feedback. Not good enough apparently.

You could change nudotf a thousand times, it still isn't the dotf that people liked, and that a huge chunk of the community wants. So no, it will never be good enough while the dotf of old is still arbitrarily removed from the mod.
Also, your attitude of "listen up, here's why I'm right" isn't going to win over people who dislike what you're doing, nor is attacking the community for disagreeing with you. The thread is about listening to community feedback, and most feedback regarding dotf (and this is only one example) isn't "hey can you add a new corridor or another ship in hangar", it's "old dotf was better".
There are many examples of the development team refusing to listen to feedback that disagrees with their vision of mb2, such as the flinch feature.

 

[MaceMadunusus]

on the relationship being devs taking no feedback whatsoever.

And I used this discussion and my original post to illustrate that this is completely false.

So no, it will never be good enough while the dotf of old is still arbitrarily removed from the mod.

Okay, you're doing an excellent job at making me want to take your side. You should just step away from this discussion and subsequent discussions on dotf because you're a horrible advocate for people who want old dotf back.

There are many examples of the development team refusing to listen to feedback that disagrees with their vision of mb2, such as the flinch feature.

Still making completely false statements I see.

 

[Smee]

Okay, you're doing an excellent job at making me want to take your side. You should just step away from this discussion and subsequent discussions on dotf because you're a horrible advocate for people who want old dotf back.

No, It's clear that you are emotionally attached to your map. You will never take the side of anybody who dislikes it. I'm just pointing out how you aren't accepting valid feedback, and maybe the idea of a change to the mb2 development structure might not be such a bad thing in reflection.