Gas Stassin: A Modest Proposal

[MaceMadunusus]

didnt you guys used to have a community manager

Not really no. Would be nice to have but not many are willing to do that job for zero pay. Its a hard job.

 

[Rosh+]

Not really no. Would be nice to have but not many are willing to do that job for zero pay. Its a hard job.

maybe ill throw my hat in at some point but not right now

relative of mine just got uterus removed and i must take care of her so i cant even play anything other than single player games and even then im getting up every 20 mins

 

[Torlo50]

To be honest, I enjoy actually playing MB2 too much to really want to get too far on the Dev. side of things. After all, you develop something for the players. If you play a lot yourself, you are going to be very biased when making developing decisions at anytime. I frankly just want yo enjoy the game. I also realize that you all are developing this game for others, not yourselves. To put this another way, I enjoy MB2 too much to not want to be the "others" of this equation. While I could never be a part of what you all do, while I remain thus, I do think that a proper community manager, or hell, a fucking PR agent of any kind, could be immensely helpful. If most of the community deals with a singular individual, then the you can do many things. For instance @Defiant :

1. Having a "Face" to the community allows the main development team to avoid personal backlash for anything they have done in particular.
2. If a situation happens were you are approached by a player where you begin to get super annoyed with the individual, or aggravated in any way, you can call upon your team member, the friendly PR Agent, to deal with them for you.
3. Making announcements through a singular front like this allows the community to avoid miscommunication from the Dev. Team to the regular community.
4. Someone whose job is to run poles (which I can see other Developers asking them to run if they want feedback on something in particular) can also run these sort of poles to get parts of the community interested on any particular topic,especially to draw attention from other controversial issues.
5. This person should also be responsible for any Official Public Event, and the sponsoring of events others want to host. For instance, having a FaceBook page dedicated to news releases from a particular source allows control over what people expect and see. If you can control what people expect, you can partially control what they want. Control the "hype" as it were.
6. Someone who can stop a developer from going "off-the-rails" so-to-speak would be good as well. @Stassin I realize you are going to read this at some point, and think this means you, and you would be right. Frankly, you handled the entire situation poorly. You, while doing your damnedest to get this out, got called out when the community got something they didn't expect. Instead of the best option, ignoring them, you responded, got angry, and so on. The trolls came out, and the ball really got rolling. I like to think your a better person then that. If you had someone who could talk to that group instead, maybe things could have ended differently. Also, going up to people and telling them nothing they say/do matters makes people take things into their own hands and make those things matter. It's just a bad idea, as it raises people's hackles and makes them realize that they may not matter. Or, as you so pointed out, didn't at all. Keep the sheep of the world ignorant, and play the game. If it works for politicians, it can work for you.

Of course, this isn't nearly everything a good PR management person could do, but a few choice examples for this turbulent time. I have 6 years in experience with service related side of PR, I know what can be done, if you do it right. A hard, demanding, unforgiving, and regrettably thankless task. So, I say with utmost certainty, you needs this, and so does the community. Good luck MB2 Team as a whole... good luck.

{As for the OP, while I understand where you are coming from @Lessen , I don't think this is the way. Democracy as it's limits, and, while it tends to work better on a small-scale like this, I just don't see it working well. First, you would annoy the developer's who actually do the work, without pay. Bad idea that, we need as many as we can get. The enjoyment of seeing a bunch of people praise your work, in the 1/10 times that happens, makes everything worth it. One person saying good job in a world of thanklessness means the fucking everything. Having less of that, especially with people moving in-and-out of positions on this Senate (constantly changing who has power at any one moment) would be a terrible idea, since all the Devs have to do is say, fuck this, I'm done, and guess what........... that's it. Game Over. Maybe having more communication would be good, as many people who were not vocal at all, only really voiced too much opinion after something happened, not before. We were Re-active instead of Pro-active. We need to be Pro-Active here. Frankly, raising good discussion, or at least, reasonable discussion is a good thing though, so thank you for posting at all.}

 

[Phoenix]

can I get a tl;dr on this fucking bible of a thread please

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

Just make me your MB2 Hitler for life. I'll fix everything.

 

[DaloLorn]

Just make me your MB2 Hitler for life. I'll fix everything.

I don't know, you might be a bitter pill to swallow...

(I have no regrets. Yet.)

 

[Smee]

Developers aren't perfect but we all work VERY hard, we do listen to the community more than some of you even deserve over recent months while receiving no credit for doing so, and even after that we will continue working hard and listening to you. We always have, and we always will listen to the community.

I don't get how you can say you listen to the community but refuse to add back the old DOTF, which is one of the most requested things from the community. Further, had you (the development team, obviously this isn't your particular part of development so I'm not calling you out here) asked the community for feedback on purple stab on say a forum thread, you would have got an overwhelming "no" vote.

 

[DaloLorn]

I don't get how you can say you listen to the community but refuse to add back the old DOTF, which is one of the most requested things from the community. Further, had you (the development team, obviously this isn't your particular part of development so I'm not calling you out here) asked the community for feedback on purple stab on say a forum thread, you would have got an overwhelming "no" vote.

To be fair, Mace has on numerous occasions stated that restoring the old DotF too soon would prevent the new one from getting a fair chance and reduce the amount of useful feedback it'll get. It takes time to get past the initial response of "this is different, I don't like it", and maps are particularly vulnerable to this effect because, unlike mechanical changes made by new versions of MB2, you can steer clear of a new map while still playing the same mod.

Case in point, plenty of decent maps are already ignored by the bulk of the playerbase because they're not as popular as DotF, Deathstar or Lunarbase - when was the last time you saw a server running Eravana, Jakku, Enclave or Mygeeto? Even newer maps like Dxun, Scarif or Starkiller Base are rarely seen, because they don't fit the general population's views of what an MB2 map should be (at least not as much as the more popular maps).

In short, everyone has plenty of opinions as to what has or hasn't gone wrong in 1.5, but most of them aren't going to stop playing the mod because of its mistakes - they'll try to improve it, because there's not a lot they can do to go back to 1.4.9, 1.3.2, RC9, or whichever version they thought was "the best MB2 ever". The new DotF needs to undergo the same process, otherwise Mace might as well stop working on it for all the difference it'll make.

 

[big dik rik]

Not even gonna read past page 1 of this thread but gas whoever needs to be gassed for us to get a version of that wonderful beta we had live instead of this trash we currently have.

 

[Smee]

To be fair, Mace has on numerous occasions stated that restoring the old DotF too soon would prevent the new one from getting a fair chance and reduce the amount of useful feedback it'll get. It takes time to get past the initial response of "this is different, I don't like it", and maps are particularly vulnerable to this effect because, unlike mechanical changes made by new versions of MB2, you can steer clear of a new map while still playing the same mod.

Case in point, plenty of decent maps are already ignored by the bulk of the playerbase because they're not as popular as DotF, Deathstar or Lunarbase - when was the last time you saw a server running Eravana, Jakku, Enclave or Mygeeto? Even newer maps like Dxun, Scarif or Starkiller Base are rarely seen, because they don't fit the general population's views of what an MB2 map should be (at least not as much as the more popular maps).

In short, everyone has plenty of opinions as to what has or hasn't gone wrong in 1.5, but most of them aren't going to stop playing the mod because of its mistakes - they'll try to improve it, because there's not a lot they can do to go back to 1.4.9, 1.3.2, RC9, or whichever version they thought was "the best MB2 ever". The new DotF needs to undergo the same process, otherwise Mace might as well stop working on it for all the difference it'll make.

I understand that somewhat but the new map has been out for, what, 6 months now? People are used to it

 

[DaloLorn]

I understand that somewhat but the new map has been out for, what, 6 months now? People are used to it

Well, from what I've heard (and from what Mace said earlier in the thread), there's still some changes coming in a future update.

If memory serves, the idea was to release the 'classic DotF' a few months after the current map was more or less finalized.

 

[Smee]

Well, from what I've heard (and from what Mace said earlier in the thread), there's still some changes coming in a future update.

If memory serves, the idea was to release the 'classic DotF' a few months after the current map was more or less finalized.

Still, the point is that the devs aren't "listening to the community" on this. Really I don't care how much they polish the map, I simply don't like how it plays now. Adding another corridor or whatever won't change that, and that opinion isn't just mine.

 

[k4far]

Still, the point is that the devs aren't "listening to the community" on this.

Please, do not try to speak on behalf of everyone. A lot of my suggestions have made it to the game. I am surprised after listening to you here because it's not that hard to have good contact with the Developer. If your feedback isn't "game is kill, it sucks" stuff gets done.

 

[Stassin]

simple solution to this is to get somebody on the forums and on the discord whose ONLY job is this, could be any schmuck who doesnt get easily angry or fall into argumentative state often

1) Noone is gonna want to do that, or like we've had in the past someone applies and joins the team, only to disappear forever having done nothing
2) That's hardly surprising, because even if someone wants to do that it'll be done poorly because they aren't the ones doing the dev work and so obviously they aren't privy to what's really going on.

 

[hleV]

It's just harmless trolling really. These people have no actual info about what's going on and simply need a scapegoat for any issue they have.

I mean, the game was fun until V1.2 (if that's the version with all saber styles implemented into Open). Can you remind me when was it that you started to greatly influence the game?

 

[MaceMadunusus]

Still, the point is that the devs aren't "listening to the community" on this. Really I don't care how much they polish the map, I simply don't like how it plays now. Adding another corridor or whatever won't change that, and that opinion isn't just mine.

So, because I don't release something you want, when you want it, means I am not listening? You do realize I mentioned this kind of bullshit argument in my post right?

 

[Noob]

have open betas, have ticket submitter on the launcher for bugs, feedback, etc.
Make it easy for someone to give feedback without having a forum account, not every player wants to be a part of the community. I know you guys want to integrate forum accounts to MB2 launcher but I think this is a bad idea, you will drop a lot of players. Just take feed back into account, whether you like it or not. Have unbiased mediators decide whats best for the game. Dont look at everything like its based on values, I think this is what leads to devs overdoing buffs/nerfs.

also devs, call it flaming, but grow some balls sometimes and explain yourselves when getting attacked by community instead of ignoring. PR is bad rn. PR should be "Oh you didn't like that? Well we did this because we thought --. Prove me wrong, etc." Maybe have a special section for news sections that aren't like forums but more like blog style or reddit where you can see timelined comments or peaked comments based on upvotes. It's so difficult finding what people dislike about a build when there's 16 pages to go through, and im sure that goes the same for you all (devs).

I'm gonna keep adding on as i think of shit. Make a quickplay option in the menu that go directly to an official server with a specific game mode

Menu>Play Now (Server list labled as Servers in Menu)>[Open,Duel,FA,Event,Beta]

You automatically get put in NA or EU based on ping

tl;dr
Open Beta's
Submit Tickets via launcher
Unbiased feedback review
Better PR
Streamlined update announcements/feedback (Reddit style comments, ditch forum layout only on this section)

 

[MaceMadunusus]

I know you guys want to integrate forum accounts to MB2 launcher but I think this is a bad idea, you will drop a lot of players.

Every game these days has an account process. Whether that be through steam, origin, uplay, epic games or games with their own launcher: dauntless, guild wars, warframe. It is unacceptable in 2018 to be afraid of creating a damn account when it takes 2 seconds. If you're worried about data being shared or whatever just get an email not linked to anything. Legally I don't even think we could do that because of our license for JKA.

You cannot have a ticket submitter on the launcher for bugs, feedback, etc without an account. Especially for bugs. Because for example if someone submits a bug with a recognizable name, and they don't provide enough information (like just saying: FIX SABERS) we can't simply go to them and ask for more information for their ticket. It also helps prevent duplicate submissions we have to go through. Knowing WHO submits feedback is useful information to us. Another example using the projectile speed poll as an example: A lot more new players supported the new speeds, more older / veteran players supported the older speeds.

We do need to expose our issue tracker to the public IMO. But I am not sure if we can do that currently.

It's so difficult finding what people dislike about a build when there's 16 pages to go through, and im sure that goes the same for you all (devs).

We've gotten used to it over the years. We have a lot of internal threads with notes and stuff that we jot down from threads. Ben for example has kept good track of opinions on features with brief overviews of general opinion and +/- marks to see how many people feel certain ways towards features during the open beta.

 

[Noob]

You're being ignorant of the fact of taking all feedback regardless of how shitty it might be. Have it take their name from the cfg and use that as who submitted it, or IP, i dont really mind (Then you can blacklist unhelpful trolls). By ticket I mean one that you do not respond to. Just a place that will collect all the data to be sorted by someone

 

[Smee]

So, because I don't release something you want, when you want it, means I am not listening? You do realize I mentioned this kind of bullshit argument in my post right?

Well I mean anytime the map changes to dotf you get half the server calling it a shit map. There is also that poll that shows most people who voted don't like the new dotf.
Also, it's not a matter of "releasing". That implies you are creating new content. The content you are "releasing" is something you have already removed from the game.