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They tryed this last batch, it wasnt very welcomed sadly and also abit buggy from what i recall, which leds to current changes toward blob in batch 4
Feedback Thread: Open Beta (after V1.4.9) - Drop 4
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That's so weird. Earlier I was taking a shower and thought of different ways blobs could be changed to fit the new gameplay, and what Gargos said was exactly what I was thinking.
If you could make the blobs be able to charge up that would be cool, introducing something that takes skill from both players.
Now from my experience, I just have to be honest and say that I hate blobs and wish they were nerfed to heck and gone. I was playing deathstar earlier, and I kept encountering a clone, and was playing as a Mandolorian. The clone would always try to blob me the second he saw me, and about 3/4 times he did, and before I could even get up I died.
I think that's a serious problem, because just because a clone spent 5 points on a blob he can IMMEDIATLY shoot, doesn't mean he should automatically be able to kill me. It's super frustrating because a blob takes no effort, and takes less than a half second to fire. I think that if blobs could charge up, it would allow for a balanced gameplay, giving the imperials a chance to at least take cover or prepare to dodge.
I think to sum up my experience with blob is this: It's like when you're fighting a clone and he shoots a blob it's BAM and you're on the ground and now look half/ALL your health is gone. You're dead. Try again next round.
Instead, it should be, "oh the clone is charging up his blob, maybe i can take cover here, or I can now be prepared to try and dodge it, dang he hit me with it, that's fair, I wasn't able to dodge correctly."
I'd also like to point out that just because I died from a blob a few times doesn't mean that I think it should be nerfed, I'm basing my opinion based on it's complete stats and balance.
If you could make the blobs be able to charge up that would be cool, introducing something that takes skill from both players.
Now from my experience, I just have to be honest and say that I hate blobs and wish they were nerfed to heck and gone. I was playing deathstar earlier, and I kept encountering a clone, and was playing as a Mandolorian. The clone would always try to blob me the second he saw me, and about 3/4 times he did, and before I could even get up I died.
I think that's a serious problem, because just because a clone spent 5 points on a blob he can IMMEDIATLY shoot, doesn't mean he should automatically be able to kill me. It's super frustrating because a blob takes no effort, and takes less than a half second to fire. I think that if blobs could charge up, it would allow for a balanced gameplay, giving the imperials a chance to at least take cover or prepare to dodge.
I think to sum up my experience with blob is this: It's like when you're fighting a clone and he shoots a blob it's BAM and you're on the ground and now look half/ALL your health is gone. You're dead. Try again next round.
Instead, it should be, "oh the clone is charging up his blob, maybe i can take cover here, or I can now be prepared to try and dodge it, dang he hit me with it, that's fair, I wasn't able to dodge correctly."
I'd also like to point out that just because I died from a blob a few times doesn't mean that I think it should be nerfed, I'm basing my opinion based on it's complete stats and balance.
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Really? Not any of you tryed the charged blob when it was implemented previous batch??? 
I dont exactly remember how it worked, but I remember the longer the charge the longer the stagger, while a full charge would knock people down, I think if you ran, or jumped, it knocked you down regardless too... Something like that, dont quote me on that.
It wasnt very welcomed by people who tryed it, It's just not as fun as your imagination make it out to be, altho the concept was interesting to try
I dont exactly remember how it worked, but I remember the longer the charge the longer the stagger, while a full charge would knock people down, I think if you ran, or jumped, it knocked you down regardless too... Something like that, dont quote me on that.
It wasnt very welcomed by people who tryed it, It's just not as fun as your imagination make it out to be, altho the concept was interesting to try
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Seems like you didn't try it yourself. Charge mechanic was pointless since it only increased the damage (5-20), so people just tap fired blobs as usual.
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My point was simply pointing out that the charge mechanic of blob was integrated for people to test it previous batch.
Even if it worked like Gargos said, people would still tap it too! And It's not few seconds to charge up that would address much of the problems concussion blob is related to in 1.4.9
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First off, Lyrion, you totally ignored the part where Gargos was saying charging up the speed of the blob. By saying "this was in the previous test," you totally misrepresented the previous patch's charge mechanic: slightly increasing damage.
Secondly, Gargos, I will say I'm pretty against making concs chargeable in any form. The brief test of chargeable concs felt extremely awkward to use, even tap-firing felt... gunky, because the exact length of your tap would affect the timing of the shot. Having the speed of the shot vary based on charge would make it unnecessarily difficult to use, since each slightly different charge level would affect the amount you needed to lead. I think that's gross.
Thirdly, if a charge mechanic WERE implemented, I think it should be implemented in a way that makes tap-firing simply impossible. For example, concs could require a minimum amount of charging before they could be fired at all, and after this minimum amount of charging was achieved, you could hold the charge for, say, five seconds.
I don't really want this though, I like the current beta implementation where it's tap-fireable but only knocks down running/jumping people, staggering otherwise. It's like Push, for gunners. It seems reasonable and like it has reasonable counterplay.
(Another joke idea I would want for conc would be... basically the idea I described above, except that after five more seconds of charging the shot would instead be a Concussion Rifle shot. A big area blast. This would be very silly.)
(A less joking idea for conc would be that there would be no charge mechanic, instead the shot would simply fire... say... 500ms AFTER you press the button. As in, there would be sort of a "wind-up" to the attack. Like an automatic chargeup. This would give the target a moment of warning to try to evade.)
Secondly, Gargos, I will say I'm pretty against making concs chargeable in any form. The brief test of chargeable concs felt extremely awkward to use, even tap-firing felt... gunky, because the exact length of your tap would affect the timing of the shot. Having the speed of the shot vary based on charge would make it unnecessarily difficult to use, since each slightly different charge level would affect the amount you needed to lead. I think that's gross.
Thirdly, if a charge mechanic WERE implemented, I think it should be implemented in a way that makes tap-firing simply impossible. For example, concs could require a minimum amount of charging before they could be fired at all, and after this minimum amount of charging was achieved, you could hold the charge for, say, five seconds.
I don't really want this though, I like the current beta implementation where it's tap-fireable but only knocks down running/jumping people, staggering otherwise. It's like Push, for gunners. It seems reasonable and like it has reasonable counterplay.
(Another joke idea I would want for conc would be... basically the idea I described above, except that after five more seconds of charging the shot would instead be a Concussion Rifle shot. A big area blast. This would be very silly.)
(A less joking idea for conc would be that there would be no charge mechanic, instead the shot would simply fire... say... 500ms AFTER you press the button. As in, there would be sort of a "wind-up" to the attack. Like an automatic chargeup. This would give the target a moment of warning to try to evade.)
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Oh I didnt ignore it, people would tap it regardless because humans are lazy, and its the easiest thing to do in a stressful situation! Even if you charge it up a little bit to boost the speed of it, in the most stressful and dangerous situations it will be simply safer to barely charge it to ensure survival.
But that is as long you can aim it enough to hit the opponent, which you will, because it wont ever be nerfed slow enough to the point of it being so useless you're basicaly forced to fully charge it to hit anything.
So basically it wouldn't change anything at all since at longer range you don't have to worry about the charging up because you're safe, have all the sweet time to charge & aim safely, and neither in CQC since you can just tap it with a slightly lower traveling speed and the opponents won't be able to react quick enough to avoid it as well because of the lack of reaction time caused by the short distance between the Clone and the Sith/Gunner.
It slighty adress the problem, but it doesnt fix it at all.
But that is as long you can aim it enough to hit the opponent, which you will, because it wont ever be nerfed slow enough to the point of it being so useless you're basicaly forced to fully charge it to hit anything.
So basically it wouldn't change anything at all since at longer range you don't have to worry about the charging up because you're safe, have all the sweet time to charge & aim safely, and neither in CQC since you can just tap it with a slightly lower traveling speed and the opponents won't be able to react quick enough to avoid it as well because of the lack of reaction time caused by the short distance between the Clone and the Sith/Gunner.
It slighty adress the problem, but it doesnt fix it at all.
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I was speaking specifically about your
Which, in context, tells Gargos incorrectly that the last batch tried charge shots that increase shot speed. You gotta watch what you're saying.
Miscommunication is kind of a special bother for me. That's why I say everything as precisely as possible. Which then results in incredibly, tediously long things. Oh well.
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Oh yeah, I do understand your point.
Wasn't my intention to make it sound that way, I was just pointing out that a charged blob mechanic has been tried, and that it surprised me people didn't seem to have tried it
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Thinking of the charge. The charge felt fairly unresponsive for quick taps since the attack would occur on Mouse Up rather than on Mouse Down. Mouse Up and Mouse Down can't occur on the same frame, so the next game frame will have to be the one where the attack fires off.
Not entirely sure about the hierarchy of frame logic in JKA/MB2, but a system that would make a charged shot feel somewhat instant would require reading input multiple client frames to apply behaviour for the next server side frame.
Another question is that would the speed increase make it worthwhile to charge? It would definitely make it harder to lead a target, since the shot speed is not static.
Either way, I'd look into whether there's a need for re-designing the blob later. For now we should try out with minor numerical changes rather than design changes. We've already got so many core design changes that altering too much at once will just give us a hard time ever finding a release window where we're happy.
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That is a pretty good point, but also inspired me to develop the idea even further:
How about we have just 3 different speeds for conc blobs instead of it growing linearly/logarithmically like everything else chargeable in this game. For example 0-0,99 second's charge (from tap up to 0,99 seconds) would be 50 % of the original's velocity, charging one full second up to 1,99 seconds 75 percent of the original's velocity and lastly charging for 2 full seconds would give you 100 percent of the original's velocity, and the charge would release automatically after let's say, 4 seconds? The values are just examples for the idea, they could be changed in anyway to reach the best solution. @GoodOl'Ben would this idea also fix the frame problem you were talking about?
We could have different sound effects for each charged speed to make it easier to follow where youre at, and make the sound only be heard by the user just like conc nades are so they would not be so easy to follow for the enemy.
There is one argument I can come up with against this: It would be rather hard to do slow conc blobs fast since it would not fire until you release the button instead of the current one where conc blob is released the moment you press the button. Only solution I can come up with is that you can switch between chargeable conc blobs and nonchargeable, nonchargeable having the same velocity as the slowest level of chargeable. Now again this could be a problem, since you can already switch between ions and concs, making it possibly rather confusing. Though we do have a new extra button ever since hero's abilities were changed, so definitely not impossible.
EDIT: gave it some thought that maybe it would be even better to just have 2 different velocities, 3 might be too many and lead to confusion with the different velocities.
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Just an idea:
What if charging a blob was a thing but:
Tap firing the blob would only cause knockdown if sith is not blocking
Charge firing the blob would cause knockdown whether the sith is blocking or not
So either way you get a choice but the longer one is more reliable?
What if charging a blob was a thing but:
Tap firing the blob would only cause knockdown if sith is not blocking
Charge firing the blob would cause knockdown whether the sith is blocking or not
So either way you get a choice but the longer one is more reliable?
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I've gone ahead and changed it to DOTF, I noticed that it dropped off after Lunarbase.
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Not really, but I am pretty sure it's somehow possible to make a near-instant launch if correctly coded. Might require reworks to some very core things if things are programmed in a very vintage way (which they most likely are considering it's a 20-year-old engine).
If we want consistency and juicy feel while making conc blobs more complex:
Play a charge-up sound effect like the ion.
Tap or Hold for less than 1 second:
- Enter charging state if held, if tapped just fire
- On mouse up fires Blob that deals 10 HP damage and Staggers (perhaps air hits can always knockdown)
- Play audio cue for power-up finished
- On mouse up fires Blob that deals up to 30 HP damage and causes Knockdown on direct hit and deals moderate splash damage within a radius equivelant of a Conc Grenade
- Perhaps cookable so it can be timed to detonate mid-flight?
- Blows the load in your face
This again is a big reason why I think that if we want to do a re-design, I think it needs to be done properly with gameplay feel first. Everything needs to feel fun to use. Rash design changes like stagger on walk sacrifice gameplay feel for the sake of balance (which can always be achieved without design changes). This is how many of our worst mechanics have come to pass: Perceived balance issue that results in a rash bandaid design change that often than not affects the juice of an ability.
Notable examples of these:
- Secondary Frag nerf B17 -> B18: Ability that can deal game-ending damage turns into an ability that simply makes someone fall down in their place combined with a puff of smoke
- Collective Grip (Levels 1-2) nerfs B17 -> Present Day: An ability that instantly locks its victim in place turns into an ability that has a long channel duration, an FP requirement cap and the user can't even score a kill out of it.
- Projectile Rifle version Whatever -> version Whatever: A weapon that essentially lives out the quick-scope fantasy and is an engaging sniping weapon with flashy play-style options turns into an unresponsive weapon with an invisible timer that decides when you can fire.
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The game already has too many of those "Oops I couldn't hold it any longer" effects and they don't provide much benefit. For the conc I can kinda see why (even though real grenades don't even have that thing going on ), but having it deal damage instead of simply firing is just silly for this.
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This thread for beta feedback turned into clone feedback. Maybe we can introduce something different:
Two things:
First, I love the meme that alt-fire nade produces in the beta, but I only play gunners so maybe I don't experience the frustration. Will there be a change?
Second, I don't notice the difference in the projectile rifle. I see that there's a second delay for it's accuracy, but playing the beta I encountered no innacuracy changes.
Lastly I'd like to say how much I love the beta. I keep saying it and I will keep saying it: Finally saberists aren't unstoppable fp machines. Earlier today I played on DS and shotgun projectiled a jedi, darted him immediatly, and hit him with about 8-10 p3 shots while he was running, and I charged him thinking he'd be out of fp right? Nah he still had enough fp to push me, slice me, and he told me he had about 20 fp leftover. ??????
yes im talking about you Potion Seller
Two things:
First, I love the meme that alt-fire nade produces in the beta, but I only play gunners so maybe I don't experience the frustration. Will there be a change?
Second, I don't notice the difference in the projectile rifle. I see that there's a second delay for it's accuracy, but playing the beta I encountered no innacuracy changes.
Lastly I'd like to say how much I love the beta. I keep saying it and I will keep saying it: Finally saberists aren't unstoppable fp machines. Earlier today I played on DS and shotgun projectiled a jedi, darted him immediatly, and hit him with about 8-10 p3 shots while he was running, and I charged him thinking he'd be out of fp right? Nah he still had enough fp to push me, slice me, and he told me he had about 20 fp leftover. ??????
yes im talking about you Potion Seller
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It's definitely not going in with this degree of power for sure. It does however showcase that the change results in really fun gameplay so the design is solid. Balance seemingly is a bit off and the behaviour feels buggy due to the high knockback.
So mainly it just needs more direct damage and the knockback multiplier exception rule could be disabled.
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I don't like at all how blobs don't knock over people when standing still. Also I feel that ammo level 2 for projectile should have 12 ammo rather then 10.
Fang
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Didnt notice about the blob situation but that sounds dumb if that's the case. Punishment should be for those who stand still (less your using dodge cuz I know dodge, DODGES blobs)
Other than that, felt okay.
I did not like
Stamina on clones change. I prefer using shift to cancel my sprint animation
Alt nades - Whilst I agree easy mode right clicking is borked, this one I just simplly do not like. I'm not saying go back to old sec but that needs changing (also the 100% knockback and/or damage that is bugged on it obviously)
I also would take a look at dodge 1 considering the new drain, i'd argue dodge 1 is pretty worthless
I had my doubts on this build.. I like it overall
Jedi and gunner combat is a highlight in this regard and so far, I have only been ''skillfullly'' played by a competent sith and when he does f up, he is punished severely without that damage reduction.
-Jedi/Sith (saber or not) have a 20% damage reduction multiplier while in rolling getup animations.
I so far havent had any probllems with this but from a punishment stand point, if you've fallen down. You should be punished for it.
Other than that, felt okay.
I did not like
Stamina on clones change. I prefer using shift to cancel my sprint animation
Alt nades - Whilst I agree easy mode right clicking is borked, this one I just simplly do not like. I'm not saying go back to old sec but that needs changing (also the 100% knockback and/or damage that is bugged on it obviously)
I also would take a look at dodge 1 considering the new drain, i'd argue dodge 1 is pretty worthless
I had my doubts on this build.. I like it overall
Jedi and gunner combat is a highlight in this regard and so far, I have only been ''skillfullly'' played by a competent sith and when he does f up, he is punished severely without that damage reduction.
-Jedi/Sith (saber or not) have a 20% damage reduction multiplier while in rolling getup animations.
I so far havent had any probllems with this but from a punishment stand point, if you've fallen down. You should be punished for it.
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