Feedback Thread: Open Beta (after V1.4.9) - Drop 4

[GoodOl'Ben]

Another bug

• Stamina run + gun broken
• Stamina doesn't turn off after walking/crouching
• I seem to only have 2 blobs instead of 3 at lvl1

 

[MuscBodypillow]

Maybe I'm just a dum dum but should the torso be the baseline for damage (AKA 1.0) and have everything else revolve are that baseline.
This would lower damage and make engagement longer.

As far as having flinch reimplemented, I have my doubt, wasn't the whole point of the beta to work around flinch since it was finnicky.
Now people say that you die too quickly and can trade but no one seems to trade because they die to quickly ( what?).

But yeah having the pull delay work differently is a saber is equipped would be a good workaround for the current pull rework.

I'm not too sure yet about the damage reduction with distance but making the line more shallow would be the proper way to adjust to the "too high close, too low far" thing.

 

[Blazer]

I'm probably making a stupid point or in the minority, but I personally think projectile rifle needs far less ammo.

I mean I feel like hero/bh shouldn't just be this sniper that takes all these shots all the time. I feel like as a hero/bh you should carefully consider how you use your projectile rifle. Because let's be real here, NONE OF US have ever ran out of projectile rifle ammo. I feel that if the projectile rifle ammo is lower it helps pros, and noobs alike to reconsider the shots they take and view the rifle as a weapon to be used sparingly with big payoff.
If it were me, the proj rifle ammo would be 3/5/8

 

[MaxorMjauCRO]

I'm probably making a stupid point or in the minority, but I personally think projectile rifle needs far less ammo.

I mean I feel like hero/bh shouldn't just be this sniper that takes all these shots all the time. I feel like as a hero/bh you should carefully consider how you use your projectile rifle. Because let's be real here, NONE OF US have ever ran out of projectile rifle ammo. I feel that if the projectile rifle ammo is lower it helps pros, and noobs alike to reconsider the shots they take and view the rifle as a weapon to be used sparingly with big payoff.
If it were me, the proj rifle ammo would be 3/5/8

Maybe you're taking it to the extreme, but I'm not sure. I'd definitely be satisfied with the already proposed change - Projectile rifle is accurate after 1 second of standing still.

 

[Blazer]

Projectile rifle is accurate after 1 second of standing still.

This makes every sith/jedi main cry tears of joy
This makes every hero/bh main cry tears of sad
I am the latter

 

[MaceMadunusus]

No removing caps allows the FP drains to go over 4 FP outside IDR.

I feel like you or I are missing something.

Because that is my understanding of how it (Drain Multiplier) works (outside of things like proj having 50fp cap). Actual Min and Max cap values are weapon-dependent and are on my spreadsheet here: Movie Battles II Force Point Drains Spreadsheet

 

[GoodOl'Ben]

I feel like you or I are missing something.

Because that is my understanding of how it (Drain Multiplier) works (outside of things like proj having 50fp cap)

I am referring to our current live patch (1.4.9) where the drains are capped to 4. Removing that cap was a good thing to allow weapons to deal FP damage based on their own values. The rest, not so much.

 

[MaceMadunusus]

I am referring to our current live patch (1.4.9) where the drains are capped to 4. Removing that cap was a good thing to allow weapons to deal FP damage based on their own values. The rest, not so much.

They're capped to 4? I didn't see this cap in code to add to my spreadsheet? where is it?

 

[GoodOl'Ben]

They're capped to 4? I didn't see this cap in code to add to my spreadsheet? where is it?

Outside IDR all shots are capped to 4 except for a few weapons (Deka, Pistol, Proj, T21 primary). This was coded in during RC2 dev. Initially set to the value of 2. Eventually lifted to 3 and then finally 4. Now removed in current beta, which feels great.

 

[MaceMadunusus]

Outside IDR all shots are capped to 4 except for a few weapons (Deka, Pistol, Proj, T21 primary). This was coded in during RC2 dev. Initially set to the value of 2. Eventually lifted to 3 and then finally 4. Now removed in current beta.

I understand what you're saying. Where is it in code (you can put it in slack) because neither tempest nor I saw it when adding to spreadsheet.

 

[Blazer]

I checked out that drain spreadsheet that you linked @GoodOl'Ben but I don't understand how to read it. Primary P3 shots while the saberists blocking dont show up.
Could you tell me the drain for primary P3 shots vs saberists?
I'm curious how many P3 shots for a running jedi it takes to drain him at average/close range

 

[GoodOl'Ben]

I understand what you're saying. Where is it in code (you can put it in slack) because neither tempest nor I saw it when adding to spreadsheet.

Line 17582 onwards in w_saber.c

If (outside of increased drain range) and if not (vehicle, t21, bowcaster charged, laser, bryar pistol, bryar pistol alt) -> ForcePowerNeededToBlock = 4

Edit: Was reading this on Sublime since cba to open a real IDE. This appears to now be IFDEF'd out. When was this even changed? Was this even announced in a changelog?

 

[GoodOl'Ben]

I checked out that drain spreadsheet that you linked @GoodOl'Ben but I don't understand how to read it. Primary P3 shots while the saberists blocking dont show up.
Could you tell me the drain for primary P3 shots vs saberists?
I'm curious how many P3 shots for a running jedi it takes to drain him at average/close range

Hard to tell in this beta patch since it's almost never a steady figure. Up close at facehug range it's probably around 5 (6 if you account for some regen).

 

[Blazer]

Hard to tell in this beta patch since it's almost never a steady figure. Up close at facehug range it's probably around 5 (6 if you account for some regen).

What do you mean 5 or 6? Like saberists lose 5-6 fp if they are blocking against facehug P3? That's insanely low.

edit: oh 5 or 6 shots at facehug drains 100 fp. thanks @GoodOl'Ben

 

[MaceMadunusus]

Primary P3 shots while the saberists blocking dont show up.

Added. Spreadsheet isn't exactly finished yet. Haven't had time to finish it. Keep in mind its 1.4.9 drains not open beta.

Edit:

If (outside of increased drain range) and if not (vehicle, t21, bowcaster charged, laser, bryar pistol, bryar pistol alt) -> ForcePowerNeededToBlock = 4

Edit: Was reading this on Sublime since cba to open a real IDE. This appears to now be IFDEF'd out. When was this even changed? Was this even announced in a changelog?

Yeah I thought we were currently using ~17487 lines. I think that is what it is based off of anyway? Seems weird to have both lingering in code though. Hopefully that is part of what Tempest cleaned up for this beta.

My guess is that it changed in 1.2 based off of changelogs: Version 1.2

 

[GoodOl'Ben]

What do you mean 5 or 6? Like saberists lose 5-6 fp if they are blocking against facehug P3? That's insanely low.

edit: oh 5 or 6 shots at facehug drains 100 fp. thanks @GoodOl'Ben

5 shots to drain with approx 20FP lost per shot.

 

[Blazer]

I haven't played the beta yet but I heard the tk system if you forgive someone they get 0 tk points. Why?
If you're playing with people and keep accidently tking people, they may forgive you but you should still get the initial DAMAGE points. If you tk and people keep forgiving you it doesn't promote that person to stop being careful until they get punished.

 

[MaxorMjauCRO]

I haven't played the beta yet but I heard the tk system if you forgive someone they get 0 tk points. Why?
If you're playing with people and keep accidently tking people, they may forgive you but you should still get the initial DAMAGE points. If you tk and people keep forgiving you it doesn't promote that person to stop being careful until they get punished.

Here's why I support that change. You'll see more new players who are trying to be useful, but end up shooting / killing their teammates instead.
You can always warn them in chat before you start punishing.

There was once a great Jedi. This great Jedi thought that he will be as supportive as possible. This Jedi buys push. This Jedi will do his or hers best to push the bad nades away to keep the teammates from harm's way. Sadly, this is not always so easy for our hero jedi; the nades can sometimes be devilishly tricky to push that even our great Jedi might once or twice push one into their teammates and make a big mess out of them. Usually teammates understand that the jedi only pushed the nade accidentally into them and are kind enough to press f2 to forgive the great Jedi. Now this is where the system truly punches the great Jedi into the groins. No matter how supportive our hero tries to be, he now has so many tk points that the great jedi is starting to second guess about pushing nades in the fear of hurting his teammates, inevitably leading to his own demise by tk points.

What can we learn about this tragedy of great Jedi the supportive? That something has to change. This is how I would change the system of punish, ignore and forgive:

Punish: Pretty simple, it will stay exactly the same
Forgive: not only does it not punish the player that team killed, but it also forgives the tk points that the finishing blow dealt
Ignore: Does not forgive the tk points that the finishing blow dealt, but neither does it give any extra punishment anymore

 

[vasya]

so far i find this beta pretty enjoyable.
now when flinch is gone (and after FP drain fixes) i can actually feel myself a melee class and not just swingblock machine for a good gunner in a corner.

as server is pretty full whole day i think many found this balance good.

many kudos, Temp

(don't know about lightning tho, i don't use it.)

 

[Tempest]

@GoodOl'Ben
The flat 4 value outside of IDR hasn't been in use for a few years. Pretty sure all of the IDR math got changed along with what @Stassin did in v1.x (don't know what stuff it was since I wasn't active in MB2 at the time) to the standard multipliers outside/in close range (these are the multipliers that are mentioned in the changelog).

Also FP drains are borked at the moment cause I missed a value when I was redoing the range limits for the linear math. Working on that though.