Feedback Thread: Open Beta (after V1.4.9) - Drop 4

[Flokker]

When I was playing Clone Trooper yesterday, I noticed that at certain moments I have extremely high stamina regen, despite not having any points invested into stamina regen at all.
It almost resembles that old bug where you could keep running without any stamina by spamming the button.

Also, pistol 3 shots seem to drain about 7fp point blank midslash while swingblocking.
They drain 10fp standing far away blocking. And they drain 3 fp running, same distance.
And mid-air empty jump holding block point blank, it drains 100fp, water killed me twice in this fashion.
But it happens very randomly, suddenly the pistol drains 80 fp, then it drains 7, then it drains 30, very, very weird.

Ah yes, and yesterday with saber defence 3 at long range (from roundabout to imp commons in CC), T-21 secondary was draining 17 fp per shot while standing still. Wut.

Other than that:
I think Proj ammo should still be 20 instead of 15. (Because ruptors still have 600 ammo)
Not a fan of the ion blob nerf.
Grip superpush doesn't work either from what I've tested, along with the normal superpush.

 

[Flokker]

Whoops, double post.

Is it just me or does the force draining on jedi / sith just feel all over the place, also, I've literally seen elite troopers tank project rifle shots, whats goin' on here!?

 

[MuscBodypillow]

Also FP drains are borked at the moment cause I missed a value when I was redoing the range limits for the linear math. Working on that though.

I could spend a whole clip of e-11 alt-fire and barely got through the FP meter at saber range.

Also the nade are hilarious but too OP with the knockback they 1hit-kill jedi.

 

[Blazer]

So I played the beta all day yesterday and I gotta say I love it. Saberists actually take skill now and isn't a beefy machine that never runs out of fp as long as you block, gunners are now at a huge balance between saberists, and the gun system feels so much smoother. I think this update really did it for me and as long as most of these changes stay, I'll love it.

But one thing:
Alt fire nades are just so ridiculous it hurts. I was playing on that republic commando hangar map and I naded @MuscBodypillow and he literally flew across the map and died from fall damage. I actually have HILARIOUS footage, I might put it up to Youtube soon.

 

[Fusion]

Whoops, double post.

Is it just me or does the force draining on jedi / sith just feel all over the place, also, I've literally seen elite troopers tank project rifle shots, whats goin' on here!?

With all the projectile nerf they might aswell just delete the whole weapon...

 

[Blazer]

With all the projectile nerf they might aswell just delete the whole weapon...

? I don't understand why everyone is so upset about the proj. I played the beta for like 6 hours and I never even saw a difference with the proj rifle, and I MAIN bh/hero.
I think now that I got a feel for both sides, pop sniping shouldn't be in mb2, this isn't call of duty where we pop out of corners and quickscope some fool, this is a highly T A C T I C A L game that requires patience and skill.

Idk maybe im getting too technical and competitive with it lol

Also @Flokker I don't know what you mean that elite soldiers have tanked proj shots, because the only way that can possibly happen is if they had full armor/ full hp/ and you shot them in the leg. The proj wasn't nerfed in any way aside from the delay (which I never noticed)
Proj does a base of 150 damage, and the max armor/hp a ET can have is like 125? I think. So shooting them in the chest for 1.0x damage minus the armor protection equals about to 125-140 damage. It's just not possible.

 

[Blazer]

Hey yall, I just made a MB2 video if you want to check it out. I showcased some of the Alt-fire nades that everyones talking about:

If you skip to 0:50 you can start to see the alt-fire nades and it's hilariousness overpoweredness
also skip to 3:11 for a Matrix-like projectile dodge

 

[Davey]

Playing as a clone isn't fun anymore, also it says only ion blob ammo 2/3/4 but its the same with concussion.

 

[GoodOl'Ben]

Playing as a clone isn't fun anymore, also it says only ion blob ammo 2/3/4 but its the same with concussion.

Whole-heartedly agree. These changes target the fun aspect rather than the aspect that is overpowered about the class: the Clone Rifle itself.

The clip size is simply too high so the weapon has minimal vulnerability. In addition to this, the weapon's damage output could be dropped from 20 to 19 base damage. Addressing the weapon's DPS and the duration it can dish out this DPS would be a better target.

Does anyone think Blobs not knocking someone down if they walk is good? Does anyone think having only 2 blobs at Level 1 is good?

The fun part of the class is pinning players down with blobs. Anything that makes this more like a lucky guess or something that can be counter-acted with one button removes dynamics from Clone match-ups.

 

[MaceMadunusus]

The fun part of the class is pinning players down with blobs.

Only fun for the user of the blobs not to be on the receiving end of. The only time that I think its good/fun is when it hits flying targets and for me thats only really because they really earned that one.

I'm not necessarily agreeing with the knockdown changes of blobs with this. But they are frustrating to be on the receiving end of, just like almost every other knockdown in the game. But like we discussed in another topic I think I would prefer combating that other ways, I think the ammo reduction is fine though, but choose one nerf or the other for the moment. Either ammo or the knockdown changes. Personally I'm for just ammo reduction for the moment, then look into general knockdown improvements.

 

[GoodOl'Ben]

But they are frustrating to be on the receiving end of, just like almost every other knockdown in the game.

I don't think frustration is a valid argument in something like this. It's frustrating to get one-shot by a lightsaber. It's frustrating to get pushed down. It's frustrating to get headshot. It's frustrating to get sniped at the start of the round.

Frustration and loss are key factors to the fun of a game. If there are no low points, there can be no highs either. Look at modern games for reference. Impact of dying is minimal and pretty much everything always feels monotone. This is the key factor why many modern AAA games feel bland. They've focused too much on pandering to a casual audience looking for feel-good moments.

Games are all about someone winning and someone losing. The loser did something wrong, the winner did something right. The loser did not bait the Blob and engage during the cooldown. The winner was able to predict/guess movement, line up the shot and land it.

Even in these situations the winner still needs to be able to capitalize and finish up the loser with additional shots. This is one area where I would target my nerfs. Make it harder to capitalize. Alternatively increase the cooldown between blobs to make missing a blob far more significant.

The suggested Blob change to me feels like it's just another step towards making the game monotone. Things need to feel juicy and powerful. If they don't feel like that, there's no fun.

 

[MaceMadunusus]

I don't think frustration is a valid argument in something like this. It's frustrating to get one-shot by a lightsaber. It's frustrating to get pushed down. It's frustrating to get headshot. It's frustrating to get sniped at the start of the round

Cause getting one hit with a lightsaber is an equivalent amount of frustration to getting hit and being stuck on the ground for 2 seconds completely helpless to do anything about it. I would so much rather it have 100 damage to kill me outright.

Yes a lightsaber killing you quickly can be frustrating, but it is at least in my opinion not rage inducing. Anything that knocks me down for extended period of time (push, blob, alt frag) make me want to quit the game. All classes should have the option to roll to the side to have the ability to do something against knockdown rather than being arbitrarily limited. Kind of like you said making it harder to capitalize.

Yes there needs to be a winner and a loser. Just not like it currently is in public IMO.

 

[MuscBodypillow]

I don't think frustration is a valid argument in something like this. It's frustrating to get one-shot by a lightsaber. It's frustrating to get pushed down. It's frustrating to get headshot. It's frustrating to get sniped at the start of the round.

Frustration and loss are key factors to the fun of a game. If there are no low points, there can be no highs either. Look at modern games for reference. Impact of dying is minimal and pretty much everything always feels monotone. This is the key factor why many modern AAA games feel bland. They've focused too much on pandering to a casual audience looking for feel-good moments.

Games are all about someone winning and someone losing. The loser did something wrong, the winner did something right. The loser did not bait the Blob and engage during the cooldown. The winner was able to predict/guess movement, line up the shot and land it.

Even in these situations the winner still needs to be able to capitalize and finish up the loser with additional shots. This is one area where I would target my nerfs. Make it harder to capitalize. Alternatively increase the cooldown between blobs to make missing a blob far more significant.

The suggested Blob change to me feels like it's just another step towards making the game monotone. Things need to feel juicy and powerful. If they don't feel like that, there's no fun.

As an alternative to blob not working on someone blocking, I think it would be fair to implement or increase a shooting cooldown after a blob (make it last most of the knockdown period). That way a clone couldn't just blob and kill and jedi by himself.

 

[Blazer]

I may be wrong here, but even when you're blocking and get hit by a blob, the clone can still shoot you for about 1-2 seconds. Is this not better?
For example: In the old patch, you get blobbed and if you're good, you just quick get-up as a saberist, which leaves you vulnerable for like 1.5 seconds.
In the beta, if you get blobbed while blocking, you get vulnerable for about the same amount of time.

Also what's with you guys thinking that clone is now useless? It's more balanced than it has been. I think that clones were always pretty powerful because a peaceful sith just trying to simply walk down a hallway could just get pop-blobbed by a clone and raped by the other 6 gunners on the team.

There wasn't any fairness to clone concerning their blobs. what was fun about getting blobbed then getting sniped by 4 heros on the opposite side of dotf?

Maybe I'm wrong. Someone tell me if what I just said was dumb

Edit: Also, now clones actually take a bit of skill and tactical thinking. It's not just about hoping to hit the sith with your blob, now it's trying to guess when he's going to run/swing, just like the way a hero has to think when he has to dash at the right moment. It adds a bit more fun technical swing to the clone play.

 

[Fusion]

? I don't understand why everyone is so upset about the proj. I played the beta for like 6 hours and I never even saw a difference with the proj rifle, and I MAIN bh/hero.
I think now that I got a feel for both sides, pop sniping shouldn't be in mb2, this isn't call of duty where we pop out of corners and quickscope some fool, this is a highly T A C T I C A L game that requires patience and skill.

Idk maybe im getting too technical and competitive with it lol

Lol or maybe you just cant popsnipe yourself, seeing you spent 6 hours but didn't see any difference :')

 

[Chocorope]

@MaceMadunusus @GoodOl'Ben @Tempest @Defiant @Hexodious @lessen

What about keeping blobs as they fonction right now in 1.4.9, but reducing the speed of the projectile by half (+/-) so that it work exclusively as a CQC tool, as in, if the blobs travels slower, it give far more opportunity for people to dodge, or push the projectile from afar, which naturally promote clones player to conserve it for CQC situations, since it will be harder to dodge, or push because there will be less time to react the closer they are.

Another idea would be to rework the projectile to work in a similar physical way electric blob work, mortar style, or like grenade launchers, making it again harder to land if you’re far and promoting player to conserve it for closer encounters.

I’ve always said it, I think forced mechanics are not the future of MB2, just some small tweaks like the above that point people in the right direction to use their tools in the most effective way, without forcing peoples to anything, as in, If you want to waste your blobs at long distance and take a chance, so be it, you’re free to! But It will be far less effective, or rewarding as if you go along the directions you’re highly promoted to follow for maximum results with said tool, nothing forced, all player choices and logics.

Side Note: Slow blobs could even be deliberately used as pure pressure tools to make sith push, and get sniped, or shot with blasters in the window animation, which again, all come to the Sith player logic to decide, on a given time, situation, if it’s more intelligent, appropriate to dodge, or choose the easy way and push the projectile, nothing is forced.

 

[GoodOl'Ben]

I may be wrong here, but even when you're blocking and get hit by a blob, the clone can still shoot you for about 1-2 seconds. Is this not better?
For example: In the old patch, you get blobbed and if you're good, you just quick get-up as a saberist, which leaves you vulnerable for like 1.5 seconds.
In the beta, if you get blobbed while blocking, you get vulnerable for about the same amount of time.

All I got were easy kills on Clones who can't drain nor can they bypass my block. Clones have very poor drain even in current live. This is by design as the Clone greatly relies on these knockdowns to win fights unless we're talking Clone Rifle 3.

Also what's with you guys thinking that clone is now useless? It's more balanced than it has been. I think that clones were always pretty powerful because a peaceful sith just trying to simply walk down a hallway could just get pop-blobbed by a clone and raped by the other 6 gunners on the team.

There wasn't any fairness to clone concerning their blobs. what was fun about getting blobbed then getting sniped by 4 heros on the opposite side of dotf?

You kind of answered your own question here. A peaceful sith is a complacent sith. A complacent sith is a dead sith. Getting focused down by teamwork is the bread and butter of any game. You can't nerf features just because someone got outnumbered in a location with no cover and didn't even bother to play evasive and elusive.

Maybe I'm wrong. Someone tell me if what I just said was dumb

It's a flaw in your strategy and play more-so than a well-used blob.

Edit: Also, now clones actually take a bit of skill and tactical thinking. It's not just about hoping to hit the sith with your blob, now it's trying to guess when he's going to run/swing, just like the way a hero has to think when he has to dash at the right moment. It adds a bit more fun technical swing to the clone play.

Clones have always taken skill and tactical thinking. A poorly timed blob is a total waste even if it hits. You don't hope to hit the sith with your blob, you aim to hit the sith with your blob. Now it's guesswork as you pointed out. Guessing is not a fun technical swing.

Now these changes do several things:

• A successfully aimed blob can still fail: Pretty dreary considering the level of counter-play available
  • Blobs are often used for initiation against stationary targets far away in key chokes (Knock down sniper or sith), making this play borderline useless will weaken the Clone's key role as an initiator in offense
• Blobs deal less damage per hit, requiring Clones to hit 1 more shot to kill the knocked down victim in many instances
• Most meta Clone builds now only have 2 or 4 blobs per life, increasing risk of failure greatly. Removing gameplay variety. Less incentive to try risky and rewarding shots.

Compare this to an alternative approach to balance encounters at a general level:

• Give blobs a longer cooldown after use: Increases significance of landing the blob, opponents who bait out the Blob or manage to juke the hit will be rewarded with a longer period where they're safe from knockdowns
• Blobs deal less damage per hit, requiring Clones to hit 1 more shot to kill the knocked down victim in many instances
• Reduce Clone Rifle base damage from 20 to 18: To deal over 100 HP damage, you'll now need 5 chest shots as opposed to 4.
  • Alternatively decrease clip size to roughly 50-60% of current: Reduce run 'n gun, emphasize strategic play

We emphasize the importance of making the first Blob hit and we increase the effort required to do a follow-up for a kill especially in a 1 on 1 encounter by reducing damage output per blob and bullet. This will also weaken the FP drain that the rifle itself deals.

All this while keeping the ability feeling juicy and fun to use.

What about keeping blobs as they fonction right now in 1.4.9, but reducing the speed of the projectile by half (+/-) so that it work exclusively as a CQC tool

This has been one of my suggestions and something I wrote down in a dev diary as good step to increase importance of prediction and make evasion easier at longer distances. It was changed on this drop for some reason.

 

[Chocorope]

This has been one of my suggestions and something I wrote down in a dev diary as good step to increase importance of prediction and make evasion easier at longer distances. It was changed on this drop for some reason.

I also think it's the best answers to solve the conflict as well, that, or make it function physically like the electric blob, mortar style! I got good hopes you guys choose either of these pathways.

Now I'm not saying temps change are bad tho, I like the idea and I do understand it, but I also do think it's not the optimal path to follow to please everyone.



Maybe to add on top of the cake we could merge temps changes with these ones we just spoke about above?

What if blobs would also only knockdown if aimed above the belly, or nipples? And if blob hit bellow these area, it would only cause stagger instead? It could also knockdown peoples regardless of where you aim, as long the opponent is in jumping animation, or in Jetpack?

(Side note: With mortar physic I think these changes are not mandatory though, as it would already require good aim and prediction.)

This would add another layer of skill, deept, into which not only blob function as a real CQC tool, but you also have to aim it right on the body for maximum efficiency? Not sure if its doable tho.

 

[Chocorope]

I'll post this in public area to see what people think about it, I think it's important to ask the community what they prefer and the general consensus about the viability and the fun aspect of it VS current pathway being taken inside the Open Beta

 

[Gargos]

How about make blobs chargeable just like ions? The longer the charge the faster the blob travels? Would also make it more predictable to dodge yet could be used as a faint just like conc nades and ions are used.