Now, don't hang on, nothing lasts forever but the earth and sky.
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That isn't what Argumentum Ad Antiquitatem means, it is 'Argument from Antiquity' or 'Argument from Tradition', meaning 'That's how it has always been, so it should remain so'
I think it would be better to say what you mean, and be a bit more direct, rather than using outdated terms and phrases. I mean, come on; you're arguing(not debating, mind you that ended as soon as insults were flung at one another.) with people who either have nothing better to do, or are too weak of mind to understand that they are arguing over a class in a game that contributes nothing to the individual but self-satisfaction. false superioriy, and a vain growing sense of mediocrity concerning the self. (Though this is not entirely true. Games can be a great help to people in troubling times, and the online communities these games are supported by are a great platform for discussion and free thought concerning said game.)
Anywho, just say what you mean, and this'll be a lot easier for the people who want to actually discuss this, and harder for the people who decided to waste their time insulting you rather than actively discussing the subject of this topic to, well, insult you. (Please note that agreeing with the part of my point concerning the insults would be an egregious example of hypocrisy at work. Also, note that I am not insulting you, only noting that, even as they have insulted you, you have repaid those insults in kind, which is understandable.)
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It gives "everything" of YOUR rework,so of course YOU think it's flawed.
And now you're bringing SBD up,for what reason?they are two very different classes,and don't have the same gimmicks.
That does make sense,but it will NOT make clone a fun/good class.Yes,it will be versatile,but why use Clones as a class that can be a "sniping class" or "soldier class" when we already have Soldiers and Heroes to fill that?
I, myself can only just filter out meaning to what you are saying. I am going to venture to guess that English is not your native language, but I'm not going to hold that against you for that is not my right, nor the right of anybody here. (So if you're going to insult Tadek just because of bad grammar, then fuck you.)
(Onto the point.)
I think you are ignoring Achilles' point, though I understand where you are coming from. I think the point here that he's trying to make is that Clone is overplayed, and is far too powerful to have more than maybe two people playing it. As a Sith, it can be hard to fight even one if you have no backup. Clones can flinch you easily, and since you take more fp damage while running, it is tempting to either block, and reflect, or to walk and attempt to grip the clone, but the moment you do that, you are vulnerable to concussion blobs, of which the Clone gets many, even at level 2(They get six, I think.). It doesn't cost much as a Clone to get cr2, another life, and level 2 conc, and ion blobs. That's some six blobs for each blob type(I think.). Now imagine there is more than one Clone, and they all have that same type of build. You have two gunners with faster firing but lower damage e-11s, and 6 conc, and ion blobs each. A lone Sith cannot fight against two Clones, and if there are two Sith against two Clones, the chances for the Sith are still thin, unless the Clones are unfathomably stupid. I don't know about you, but I can fight two Soldiers in main, 1v2, because I have time to think, and I have time to reflect. With Clones, I do not have that. I cannot use my powers because I am constantly being shot, negating a power like grip, and even then, I'm likely to have under 70fp while jumping around avoiding the 12 blobs in total that are coming my way, so I can't use grip anyways. Reflect is ineffective, because I can't stand still without being blobbed, and lightning is out of the question, because without having to sacrifice all your powers, and most of your saber defense, force block, and all of your deflection, you are not going to be able to get lightning 3, and since you are getting shot by two separate Clones in a small hallway, lightning 2 is out of the question as well, because the moment you tap that lightning bind, you are going to be hit by a few bolts, which will drain your fp, and by that point you're dead anyways, as you've lost fp and hp from being shot, and you no longer have enough fp to run away, so you're forced to stand still and try to retreat, at which point you are blobbed and then killed.
Achilles' point was that these types of Clones, even alone are comparable to SBDs with those abilities. It's near impossible to fight them unless you are a gunner with a range advantage, or the Clones are bad, otherwise, you are dead. It's almost as impossible as fighting an SBD with the stats he mentioned. Ever played Powerbattles maps? Go fight the Wookiee there, and you'll get the idea.
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1.) Man,i thought clone blobs couldn't get countered by Commandos,but only by other "stupid gimmicks" like Lightning or Mando Rockets...oh well.
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2.) At this point,i think a melee only soldier could kill a Clone if he ambushes it.
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3.) Oh,or how about a 0 hp deka,by rolling around the clones and making them tk eachother?That seems a very good counter too.
I may not understand this right, but...
1.) Like any class, Clone is easier to kill if it is outnumbered, so that many T-21 CMDRs, and Sith would be nearly impossible to fight 1 on 5+. Otherwise, CMDRs are extremely easy to kill as a Clone, it only takes one concussion blob, and decent aim. The point is, every player can be considered weak when they are alone; This is a team game, after all.
2.) Unless the Sold can get a good drop on the Clone, and doesn't use any katas(too much armor on Clones), then no, it's impossible. The Clone would have to be walking or stationary for the Sold to catch up and knock it down; Sprint makes any Clone far faster than any melee Sold.
3.) I don't seem to understand that last one. A zero hp Deka wouldn't be able to roll around a Clone without being shot at least once unless the Clone was completely terrible, and couldn't aim even a little bit. Then again, maybe I should ask how a 0 hp Deka would be alive in the first place. Fuckin' Necromancers have found a way to reanimate droids.
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All of this.bullshit.
1.) Sith/Jedi are already nerfed as it is(with the exception of the new deflect),and playing an 100 hp class is already hard as it is.
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2.) I guess you want to remove "Lightning Superpush" because it counters your "stupid and terrible gimmick" called conc blob.
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3.) T-21 need a nerf?why?The Commando could accidentally jump and be knocked down by his own primary shot.
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4.) And Clone is bland and boring JUST because of blobs?I want to see how blobs are so strong vs SBD,or Deka,or Mandalorians,or BH with their kick ability.
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5.) And no,it isn't the strongest class in the game.Do you have ANY idea how it is easy for clone to die?or any gunner classes against Sith/Jedi?
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6.) Deathstar bridge:Hide,see Clone run,push him,dead.(can be countered by walking,but doesn't work that much on the bridge xd)
any map:Hide again,clone runs,Lightning Superpush him,pull out a 8 point saber,dead(can be countered again by walking:Sith still lightnings you,but you don't get knocked down at least.)Deflect clone bullets(which is so easy in this version),expect the conc blobs,go close to him,dead.This would be even worse for clone if there were those "chargable blobs".(can by countered by "getting gud",or use the almighty op conc blobs-oh wait,the Sith can actually jump and move.)
And let's not forget Push and Pull kills.Or teamwork grip kills.Or normal gunner kills.
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7.) But i'm sure that even if you're being gripped,the almighty blobs can shoot the sith for no absolute reason and clone kills the sith.Surely,that's what makes them so op.
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Can all of these kills be applied also to SBD or Deka?To Deka surely not(except deflecting bullets),to SBD maybe,since it depends on the build.
So no,Clones are not the "strongest class" in the game.
1.) For me it is still as easy to play Jedi/Sith as it was before or anytime after 1.2. The only real 'nerf' has been flinch, but I've been able to cope, and so have all the people I have seen on from 2006-2012-present, so I do not see your point here.
2.) I don't understand, Achilles has done nothing but stated his intention that Clone be
changed, and while he has stated intention to
nerf such things as lightning push, he has never said he wanted to outright REMOVE it(The only thing I know of he wants to actively remove is blobs.). Please, do not put words into his mouth, it is rude, uncalled for, and diminishes your credibility.
3.) I agree. While T-21 can be effective in the right hands, most people who use it are garbage with it, and most people who are garbage with it, will jump in the air, shoot, and knock themselves down, because again, they are garbage with the weapon. It does not need a nerf.
4.) There are two types of blobs: Ion blobs, and concussion blobs; The former stuns organics, and droids alike, and are very useful against any type of gun using class, as you could be rushing or defending main on DOTF as an SBD, and could have maybe two gunners in cover, close to you, then the Clone among those two will blob you, and they'll both come out and blow you to pieces because you can't shoot back for maybe 3 or 5 seconds, and since most SBDs don't take magnetic plating, you will take lots of damage from two gunners, and die. The latter knocks down. Any class is extremely vulnerable when knocked down, so I don't need to explain how conc blobs are so good against almost all classes excluding SBDs, and Dekas.
5.) I agree, but while Clone may not be THE strongest class in the game, it does indeed stand among the STRONGEST classes in the game, and even an average player can do EXTREMELY well with Clone.
6.) Most of the situations you describe here make most Clone players out to be completely stupid. Jedi will always be in advance of gunners, you would get sabered or exposed before you would ambush the Clone, and even without a Jedi, any good clone will always eye corners and make sure, especially if they look at the scoreboard, and most of Imps are alive(as any good player would.. Any good Clone would also be wary of the Deathstar bridge, especially if there was a Sith there. As for your small rant after these scenarios, refer to quote #2 reply.
7.) Do not launch into angry, baseless conjecture.
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Please note that I did not read pages 5 to 7, so I do not know exactly what the base of some of these arguments are. If one of you will kindly relate to me the basis for some these arguments in previous posts, I will be happy to read those posts.
The removal of blobs makes clones somewhat weaker against sith but not really against gunners.
